IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #50

[otto]

My take on the whole water aspect, and this goes from just from what I've read and what happened with a serial killer in my hometown a long time ago (he murdered a boy and a girl, on two different occasions in the 70's in a different city, then turned to prostitutes in my hometown after he got out of prison), is these SK's have interests just like the rest of us, like fishing and whatnot, but their subconscious attracts them to places where there is water, when they kill and/or dispose of bodies. I've watched documentaries about plays and movies, some of the plays go back back centuries (think Shakespeare and even older playwrights), and it always seems like there's a subconscious pull among us humans towards water. Hamlet comes to mind. Things haven't changed much with regards to murderers, in that respect.

It signifies cleansing, and other conscious and subconscious thoughts and feelings.

Interesting take and quite possible!

 

[MistyWaters]

Weird, isn't it? I came across this earlier wrt RL as well: (not the best MSM but CNN is no better. Lol)

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-ne...pect-killing-abigail-williams-liberty-german/



Everyone knows by now that I don't think RL had anything to do with the murders but look at the way this was quoted.

"It's just a normal course of this investigation," said ISP Sgt. Tony Slocum. "We've served multiple search warrants so far. They can either exonerate a person or maybe require law enforcement to take a closer look."
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...erty-where-delphi-teens-abby-libby-found-dead

I've wondered if this is the quote that became misquoted into referring specifically to RL being "cleared" or made into a higher suspect by LE (or something like that). If this is the origin, it's obvious Sgt Slocum was only referring to the purpose of search warrants in general terms.


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[otto]

Here is another sexuall attack
http://www.wral.com/durham-police-woman-choked-sexually-assaulted-along-greenway/15104055/

Black male in that link ... unrelated.

 

[BarryManilow]

Has LE walked back the statement by the FBI agent that no SK or similar and/or related crimes were suspected?

What statement would that be?

 

[kat913]

Aren't there 2 other teens/young women (sisters?) that are missing from Indiana as well? IIRC, it was around the middle of December that they disappeared.

These two were missing and may still be...I am not sure http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMC/1285083/1

 

[otto]

Same here, in fact I wasn't aware FBI were involved until well after the fact. By that I mean it was quick, they were on scene within 24 hours, if I'm not mistaken.

FBI was involved right away in the Iowa case and in this double murder. It looks like they were there with the hope of a quick arrest and to help with processing tips. After a couple of weeks, and the majority of tips are processed, so the case was handed back to local authorities. It wouldn't surprise me if they are still working in the background. I don't see this, combined with the Iowa case, as slipping through the cracks, but at the same time I don't expect an arrest anytime soon.

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

I definitely wouldn't assume the same vehicle for both places, if he were to be the same perp.

If this is not the same suspect as Iowa, they it could be a motorcycle ... but somehow I think this man would want more protection (less visible) after committing a double murder.

 

[MistyWaters]

Has LE walked back the statement by the FBI agent that no SK or similar and/or related crimes were suspected?

Ha! Are we to believe that "no SK or similar and/or related crimes were suspected" while ignoring that LE has stated numerous times that RL is not a suspect?


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[BarryManilow]

I definitely wouldn't assume the same vehicle for both places, if he were to be the same perp.

He could have been long gone before it was declared a murder.

 

[Falling Down]

<snip>

But definitely an issue worth considering. And it would even make sense. Somewhere (I think it may have been Gray Hughes in one of his videos but I'm unsure) estimated the time it would take to cross that bridge and it really wouldn't take that long. So either the girls stood around up there talking or whatever or it's totally conceivable then that they were already across before things uploaded. I'm unsure if that makes any real difference in the timeline but it could suggest then that the timeline is a bit different.

In a much earlier thread, i theorized that if BG had, indeed, walked the entire length of the bridge, he could have done it in under 4 minutes. The bridge is 850 or so feet long. Average man's gait is, what, three and a half feet or thereabouts? If BG was in a hurry, he could have made it in well under 4 minutes.

Lastly, one thing that I'm not sure of is that often, for sure with text messages and emails, while it will keep trying to post them for several minutes eventually if a signal isn't reached the phone will send you an error of some sorts or otherwise give up on trying. But I know Facebook, from experience, will send a post through if even after it didn't upload you open the app again even like ten minutes later or hours later as it happened to me and suddenly upload what it couldn't earlier. With texts you have to select to try again usually if it fails. Think I've seen it both ways with email. So I'm unsure of the specifics or if what I just said makes sense.

All of this said, and of course MOO, one thing I'm relatively sure of is that there's a very realistic possibility that those photos may have been taken at a time other than 2:07. Worth saying too that even if the signal was fine those photos themselves could've been taken sooner and only uploaded at that point precisely because the time stamp on Snapchat is the time of upload, not the time taken.


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The latest information regarding drop off indicates they were at the trail head around 1:45-ish. According to members here, cell service is pretty good in the park and right around there (several threads back). So 20-30 minutes after they were dropped off is when the photo made it to SC.

Parking area to bridge=6-7 minutes, straight walk no stopping.

Libby and Abby take their time getting across the bridge, most folks would do the same, including myself as it appears to be a beautiful area. Maybe 10-20 minutes.

Somewhere between 2:07 and roughly 2:30 BG was on the bridge, that we do know.

If Libby's phone was "pinging" well after the murders, that indicates to me there's decent or good cell coverage at the park/bridge.

 

[BarryManilow]

well if I follow the logic, LE did not come right out and say this is not an SK or related, it's open to as much interpretation as "not a suspect at this time"

 

[Bemused]

Interesting take and quite possible!

What was Gary Ridgway's nickname? The Green River Killer, IIRC.

 

[JLSChook]

Do you remember names?

Sorry, no. I have CRS right now. I was hoping someone else would. I'm still looking.

 

[otto]

These two were missing and may still be...I am not sure http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMC/1285083/1

Aren't they older?
Where were they when abducted? Links all seem to be to Facebook and I don't use social media.

 

[JLSChook]

These two were missing and may still be...I am not sure http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMC/1285083/1

Yes! Thank you, kat! That is them. I haven't been able to find much about them.

 

[otto]

I definitely wouldn't assume the same vehicle for both places, if he were to be the same perp.

I think a man who murders children in rural, secluded parks drives a vehicle, not a motorcycle simply because no one wants to be seen or recognized after murdering children. Vehicles are much better for obscuring identification and recognition than motorcycles.

 

[Jax49]

Aren't they older?
Where were they when abducted? Links all seem to be to Facebook and I don't use social media.

IIRC, they are suspected runaways. Maybe someone else remembers?

 

[Falling Down]

Bringing this old post forward ... don't remember if this is the latest version

This has been unsolved long enough that I'd like to try something different, and I hope that everyone here will pitch in and add to the list.

I believe there is a possibility that the person who did this also murdered Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins in Evansdale Iowa on July 13, 2012. If we could make a list of facts that are common in both sets of murders, that might help us understand the man behind this. I'll start the list:

• two girls aged 8 and 10, and two other girls aged 13 and 14, abducted five years apart
• both occurred on the 13th day of the month: Friday July 13, 2012 and Monday, Feb 13, 2017
• girls were at local parks, but in an area where they were separated from other visitors
• abductions occurred shortly after noon
• girl's bodies were found 50 feet from a slow river / creek
• at least one of each set of girls was an avid online communicator
• at least one of each set lived part time with a grandparent
• body locations are fishing/hunting/outdoorsman spots
• body locations suggest that the suspect has a familiarity with the area surrounding the park
• two set of girls have similar body types
• State Rd 218 exists very close to both murders, perhaps less than a mile from 4 lane highways
• both tiny rural towns.
• Small, inexperienced (in major crimes) police force
• Crimes both occurred in daylight hours (afternoon)
• "Bridges" exist at both locations.
• Weichman Pig dealing operations exist in both areas: company has location near Evansdale, IA and as of 2015 located in Delphi, IN
• Adding dates of birthdays and years may add up to 32 depending on how you do it. The number has a lot of negativity to it from history.
• Transco Railway products/services exist at both locations or very close (Logansport).
• "Rails to Trails" is an active org in both locations.
• Trails are located at both Monon High Bridge in Delphi and Meyers Lake in Evansdale (Evansdale Nature Trail/Cedar Valley Nature Trail)
• Geocaches hidden at Monon High Bridge, Meyers Lake and Seven Bridges
• The dates are also mirror images ... 7.13.12 and 2.13.17

I believe both are fairly close to meat packing places
With the Iowa case, everyone assumed that it was someone local, but the fact that their bodies were found 20 miles away at Seven Bridges Park suggests that someone knows the bigger fishing and hunting geography.

I'll take this one step further. Great post.

I work in manufacturing. Like food processing, as in large plants which do it, I'd imagine they have contractors which periodically do work in their plants. Machine repair. That sort of thing.

The connection here is definitely eerie, before this (Delphi) one hit, I had never heard of the case in Iowa, and I'm a bit of a news junkie of sorts. Too many similarities, although the girls in the earlier case were left 20 miles from where they were last seen.

Like the case I've alluded to in other posts, though, SK's will and do change their MO, over time. Could be months, could be many years. We don't get it, as rational people, but SK's have been known to change their methods, their targets, etc., over time.

MOO, just food for thought.

 

[Bemused]

What statement would that be?

The one on the record by the assistant special agent in charge of FBI Indianapolis FO.

http://nypost.com/2017/02/22/slain-teen-recorded-mans-voice-before-she-was-killed/

Other possible changes in behavior or appearance — like unexpected travel or a drastic haircut — should also be considered, said Massa, adding that there’s no indication that the murders are the work of a serial killer or are connected to other homicides.

 

[otto]

In a much earlier thread, i theorized that if BG had, indeed, walked the entire length of the bridge, he could have done it in under 4 minutes. The bridge is 850 or so feet long. Average man's gait is, what, three and a half feet or thereabouts? If BG was in a hurry, he could have made it in well under 4 minutes.



The latest information regarding drop off indicates they were at the trail head around 1:45-ish. According to members here, cell service is pretty good in the park and right around there (several threads back). So 20-30 minutes after they were dropped off is when the photo made it to SC.

Parking area to bridge=6-7 minutes, straight walk no stopping.

Libby and Abby take their time getting across the bridge, most folks would do the same, including myself as it appears to be a beautiful area. Maybe 10-20 minutes.

Somewhere between 2:07 and roughly 2:30 BG was on the bridge, that we do know.

If Libby's phone was "pinging" well after the murders, that indicates to me there's decent or good cell coverage at the park/bridge.

Drop off time has been consistent in media reports as 1PM, not 1:45. Pick-up time was 3:30PM. An older sister dropped the girls off at the park. Based on where they were abducted, it makes the most sense that they were dropped off at the North end of the park ... the entrance that has recently been closed to the public.