IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #50

[Bemused]

I read nothing there where LE definitively states, this is not the work of a SK.

And I've never seen them say differently than what Massa said in the immediate aftermath of the murders. I asked the question did LE walk back the statements. I'd still like to know that.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/29458...eving-grandfather-pays-heartbreaking-tribute/

"We are actually expanding out," Riley said. "We want people who may have seen somebody walking, that may have picked up a hitchhiker, that may have seen a hitchhiker around that afternoon."
and here:
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...g-road-near-delphi-police-want-to-talk-to-you

Video has the exact words from LE

Maybe they wanted to see if RL hitched he a ride to town because he had not admitted that he drove to town that day yet.

 

[Bemused]

FBI was involved right away in the Iowa case and in this double murder. It looks like they were there with the hope of a quick arrest and to help with processing tips. After a couple of weeks, and the majority of tips are processed, so the case was handed back to local authorities. It wouldn't surprise me if they are still working in the background. I don't see this, combined with the Iowa case, as slipping through the cracks, but at the same time I don't expect an arrest anytime soon.

Were the Iowa girls considered abducted?

 

[hilary1617]

Until a true for-crime-investigation database of DNA from volunteers non-criminals comes to fruition, I wonder if LE uses the ancestry.com DNA database in any way, e.g. to find relatives - their privacy statement allows for "disclosure of personal information... including genetic information....[FONT=&quot](c) as may be required by law, regulatory authorities,or legal process"[/FONT]---> https://www.ancestry.com/dna/

 

[otto]

all seem to be on the 13'th of a month, interesting

Without knowing more about the missing sisters, I'm reluctant to make a connection.

 

[No it's not]

Is it your opinion that Abby and Libby just went compliantly to their deaths like lambs to the slaughter? Even lambs protest. Were there other people around the trail or bridge or do you know?

Another important point. And again, not knowing COD and the autopsy finds it is only everyone's guess, if they were possibly showing defensive wounds or not for example. Even if at some point the life of the first victim was taken, the other victim must have fought in one way or the other.

Libby was a math whiz according to statements of family and friends, she must have been fast to thinking. She has also participated in at least one self defense course as stated in MSM. According to LE Libby had the "presence of mind" to engage the video function on her cell phone. She was a fast thinker IMO. If Abby was taken out first, Libby would have acted in some way. If Libby had been taken out first, I have no idea, if Abby would have known what to do or not. In any case, chances are fifty fifty, that at least one of the victims would have fought. And nobody heard or saw anything, that we know of (!).

Why not? Either nobody was close enough to hear or see anything, or the killer was known to Abby and Libby IMO. But if the killer was known to Abby and Libby, why did they film him? Perhaps he was just in the picture and the point is, that Libby had actual audio in addition.

The audio part may be the most important clue combined with any additional evidence, if they have any. Imagine for a moment the killer was indeed known to the girls, who is to say he hadn't been around on the trails (from a far) and the girls were becoming suspicious of him? If he was differently dressed or concealed himself (glasses?), they would not necessarily recognize him. Libby may have even texted someone (friends? family?) to get picked up earlier due to that suspicious person. See that? So in the end, it was the "suspicious" POI/BG, who killed them and not a familiar person. JMO. Not saying that's what happened. Just trying to rattle minds.;--)

All IMO

-Nin

 

[No it's not]

This was probably answered already but I brought up another 2 teens that are missing from Indiana. (Lauren and Emily Stratton)

I did a search here, BTW, and they were discussed a bit on Thread #13

(Thanks for the help with my CRS, kat!)

Thanks!

-Nin

 

[otto]

Emphasis mine, and I agree 100%.

Within days of this case hitting the wires, I knew this killer or killers is/are sophisticated. I hike a lot, and often times alone on very difficult terrain, in downright remote places. This case scares the daylights out of myself and many other avid outdoors folks, downright frightening. Looking at the maps of the area, the terrain, etc., this killer or killers was in and out in a matter of hours, maybe 2-3. I may not be in BG's target demographic for murder and mayhem, but even folks like myself are spooked by this case.

The killer is a disgusting sociopath of the worst order. This was a brazen attack in broad daylight, on an unusually mild February day here in Indiana. The girls had the day off from school, a snow day that had to be burned. The perp must have known this. He may be new to the area, but may not yet live there, or may have moved to Carroll Cty since the attack, if you catch my drift. Bottom line is he knows that park and that bridge.

Various circumstances had to have conspired in order for this crime to occur. That's why I believe it's a SK.

What socio-economic demo is he in? We don't know, and no offense to any members, but I don't believe BG is homeless, a drifter, a vagabond, etc. He's been on the run for two months, now. He could be LE. Could be a factory or food processing worker. Could be plant maintenance, maybe a contractor. Could be a sociopathic management type. Who knows?

I just think the perp is a lot smarter than a lot of folks initially thought.

Yes, he definitely knows the area, but that doesn't mean he lives nearby.

He is too clean to be homeless, and he too over-dressed to appear as he normally does in everyday life.

 

[BoggLed in Ohio]

Emphasis mine, and I agree 100%.

Within days of this case hitting the wires, I knew this killer or killers is/are sophisticated. I hike a lot, and often times alone on very difficult terrain, in downright remote places. This case scares the daylights out of myself and many other avid outdoors folks, downright frightening. Looking at the maps of the area, the terrain, etc., this killer or killers was in and out in a matter of hours, maybe 2-3. I may not be in BG's target demographic for murder and mayhem, but even folks like myself are spooked by this case.

The killer is a disgusting sociopath of the worst order. This was a brazen attack in broad daylight, on an unusually mild February day here in Indiana. The girls had the day off from school, a snow day that had to be burned. The perp must have known this. He may be new to the area, but may not yet live there, or may have moved to Carroll Cty since the attack, if you catch my drift. Bottom line is he knows that park and that bridge.

Various circumstances had to have conspired in order for this crime to occur. That's why I believe it's a SK.

What socio-economic demo is he in? We don't know, and no offense to any members, but I don't believe BG is homeless, a drifter, a vagabond, etc. He's been on the run for two months, now. He could be LE. Could be a factory or food processing worker. Could be plant maintenance, maybe a contractor. Could be a sociopathic management type. Who knows?

I just think the perp is a lot smarter than a lot of folks initially thought.

Great post.. NINs too.. lotta great posts tonight here.
You did forget to say one thing in your list though...he could also be ...One Of Us...

 

[kat913]

Great post.. NINs too.. lotta great posts tonight here.
You did forget to say one thing in your list though...he could also be ...One Of Us...

BBM

That's a comforting thought to sleep on!!

 

[MistyWaters]

A totally left field theory. Certainly not suggesting the deaths are connected to this particular case but such a scenario is within the realm of possibility, traffickers get their victims from somewhere. Some might fight back, the kidnapper becomes angered, loses it, violence...

Two Ohio pastors arrested for sex trafficking of children
http://myfox28columbus.com/news/loc...stor-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-of-children

"The FBI began an investigation after getting information a few weeks ago, the Toledo Blade reports"

Intriguing all the same.

 

[JLSChook]

BBM

That's a comforting thought to sleep on!!

When I read it, I said, "Oooh, that just creeped me out"

Great convos tonight all! Happy Easter everyone and have a good night.

 

[otto]

Were the Iowa girls considered abducted?

Similar to this case, the family was on it right away - in fact sooner than this case. The girls were riding their bikes in a nearby parking lot, watched by their grandmother, when they decided to cycle to the nearby, somewhat rural park in South Evansdale. In one hour, they were long gone. Their bikes were left behind, which left police dragging manmade lakes and searching nearby waterways. Family looked in the right place, but they were too late.

 

[Falling Down]

Here they are together ... three sets of two girls missing or murdered in Indiana and Iowa in the last 5 years.

Again, I'm bothered by the lack of attention in the MSM and by LE. I heard of the Stratton case only through this one, and it has not been solved, only that reports state that the girls (!) are runaways.

So sad.

 

[Falling Down]

So would it make sense that RL is connected to the Iowa murders also?

This is where I have to laugh, and for good reason.

He's been on the same property for 50+ years, for RL to commit both crimes would defy logic and reason, I can't even wrap my head around that one, and i have a healthy imagination.

 

[Peace777]

To bury or hide them?

Did BG and an accomplice if there was 1, WANT these girl's bodies found for some reason? Why?

 

[Yvettea]

Were the Iowa girls considered abducted?

They were abducted and their bodies weren't found for five mos.

 

[jillycat]

I don't know if there are any newer articles and statements about this, but Sgt. John Perrine, Indiana State Police, is on record saying that investigators don't believe there's a connection between the Iowa and the Delphi homicides.

https://www.953mnc.com/2017/03/10/delphi-teen-murders-not-connected-high-profile-iowa-case/

 

[Falling Down]

BBM

Important point IMO. There are some very detailed coincidences, that I find peculiar. What is the difference between "making it look like a connection" and actually copying or connecting it? It's the same, isn't it? The only way to copy is, if there are two different killers. Looking at the common denominators like for example the rearranged numbers of the dates and the similar location components like bridge(s), water, woods etc. , time (afternoon), small towns (4000 residents and less), these are all variables very difficult to match IMO, if one is looking for a particular kind of victim or victims to locate at any given time, date and location.

IMO the killer tried so hard to either copy the Iowa case to some extent, or he is involved in both cases. I am not just pointing out the obvious, I am pointing out the necessary intellectual capacity of the killer, whether he tried to copy or whether he is responsible for both cases. The intellectual capacity is in direct proportion to the case, like in a complicated puzzle. However, the puzzle is only complicated to the observer, not to the creator of the puzzle.

After taking a good look at the Iowa case today I see so many detailed commonalities, that I am inclined to believe the killer of Libby and Abby possibly took advantage of an opportunity, that was semi planned and meticulously executed. The plan included the approximate where and how, but not necessarily the when. Then, it developed from there.

So, who is he and why did he do it?

The who-part

Two ways to answer the question. The killer of Libby and Abby is either a serial killer - then he may also be responsible for Elizabeth's and Lyric's case- or he just happened to kill Libby and Abby. Really? That's where I am greatly differing. RL was a great red herring IMO. It could not have been played out better. LE knew, why they did not publish a height and weight estimate. Do you really believe they don't know exactly how tall and heavy the POI/BG is? They may be off a inch and a few ounces, yet I am positive they know. How can the not? They can literally go to that bridge and re-enact it. I am not sure they did though. Perhaps they did not need to. I am not suggesting LE knows, who the POI/BG is. But they got to know the height and the weight IMO big time.

Not "labeling RL a suspect" was giving it away IMO. Not "clearing" him for any involvement into the murder was giving it away IMO. Fast tracking DNA (of course they had DNA..really?) was giving it away. The list is ongoing.

Look at the short time-frame between drop off and pick-up, at the location the bodies were found, at the creek separating the CS from the last known location (assuming) of the girls. Look at that humongous bridge, dangerous to walk, folks look down and not around (towards the CS) a textbook trap IMO. So many more things. I think we are looking at either a very smart "stager", who is almost getting lost in ingenuity (in his own mind..) or we are looking at a very vicious and smart SK.

The why-part

Motive. COD. Signature. None of those is known to us at this time. It is therefore impossible to know why he killed Abby and Libby, or why he possibly killed the Iowa kids, if the cases were connected. We can theorize and say, the only victims he ever killed are Abby and Libby. Hard to imagine, but possible. We can also say, he has killed before and will kill again. Again, that is possible.

Motive may have to do with purpose only. Was Libby in the way? Was Abby in the way? Were both in the way?

Motive may have to do with the killer's past. What happened to him when? Was he misused? Did he kill someone as a child? Was he witness of someone who killed someone else or himself? Did he ever find someone else, who was killed or who killed himself? Resentment? Hate? Reenactment?

Do they know by now, who the killer may be? I don't know.

I hope we will eventually find out, why this person killed Abby and Libby, and if he was involved into additional criminal activity. There are scenarios, that would require a more than perfect case buildup. And there are also situations, that can be very sensitive to any partners or family members possibly living in a relationship involving the killer. The killer may or may not know, how close he is to detection. Let's leave it at that.

All IMO

-Nin

Let's hope. Great post, as always, Nin.

 

[hilary1617]

I don't know...why would they have asked if someone saw a hitchhiker? Not a very common 1st idea I don't think? Usually would ask about vehicles...not hitchhikers? MOO

Perhaps all known vehicles in the area during the crime window were accounted for or conversely there was no evidence of unaccounted-for-vehicles? Alternatively, perhaps they were looking to corroborate someone's alibi or providing consideration that persons in the area may have had suspended licences and might rely on others for transportation?