IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #65

[htiff]

Within an hour's drive are some population centers, to include Indy, and then there's the state line with Illinois. Looks like U.S. 24 is kind of a straight shot to the state line..

As members here posted in previous threads, BG could live hours away, and still have been home for dinner. I agree with folks here who have noted there are parts of Indiana which have major drug and crime issues in general, but that's true of a lot of rural America, these days, I think. BG could be from a fairly sizeable distance from Delphi, I guess we'll find out at some point in the future.

My hunch is BG had to get out of there w/o being seen, at least up close. Most likely drove straight to his residence, so as to prevent any situations where he could have been ID'd within a given distance of Delphi. Another thing to consider is a vehicle, he's not going to be driving some junk vehicle which could break down on the way home. Or maybe he had an accomplice who drove him. Unlikely, but plausible.

Yes. He could have been from anywhere, but most criminals stay close to home---unless they have an occupation that takes them across state. The Amherst rapist/killer being a perfect example. And the most direct route to the location of the murders would be had from Lafayette. 24 might take you to other states--but it doesn't take you right exactly to the trail where these girls were killed. Both State Road 25 and interstate 25 take you from Lafayette to the trail. State Road 25 is where the primary parking lot for that trail lies.

Lafayette is so close. You could go to Delphi and be back in an hour.


Just something to consider.

There are so many indications that this guy has some familiarity with the area--He doesn't appear to have been afraid of running into a property owner (or he got lucky). He made his escape without notice. He found the most isolated spot, that is also a public trail that one can imagine - looking at a map of the area.

He's either really lucky, or he knew the area. it's hard to imagine that this would be true of someone coming from a great distance. But who knows? Maybe he's a trucker and passes through regularly.

 

[modsiw]

It's always interesting to read other opinions in these threads. For instance, I see many people think LG intentionally recorded the killer thru quick thinking.

I don't mean this to sound disrespectful but for me, I've always believed the girls were taking a selfie video and caught the killer in the background by chance. I think they were enjoying the scenery and moving around while taking the video and that's why we only have a couple blurry images of BG in the background. Otherwise, if she intentionally recorded BG, I think we would have better video of him walking towards the girls. And BG probably would have noticed her recording him and taken the phone later to destroy. I believe that if LE had a video of BG walking, they would have released it.

This is what I think happened. The girls are enjoying themselves while taking a selfie at the end of the bridge. As they are recording, BG approaches from behind with his head down. He's doing this to watch his step and hide his true intention. As he gets closer to them, they hear him and turn around to see who it is. At this same time, I think LG kept recording but put her phone in her pocket because she was either caught off guard or that she thought it was the polite thing to do. At this point the that is BG pulls out a weapon and threatens the girls and tells them "Down the HIll". As he's leading them away, he doesn't realize that LG not only has her phone in her pocket but is also recording this tragedy. I also think this is why we only have the "Down the Hill" audio released because it was clearest audio before they began moving. At that point, I think the audio is too muffled to release anything worthwhile.

At some point as they are being lead away, her phone falls out of the pocket. Or maybe she intentionally dropped it so BG wouldn't find it. Either way I think the phone ends up on the ground without BG realizing it. I think BG checked the girls for any items after he committed this horrible crime but assumed LG didn't have a phone. If not, I can't imagine he would leave the phone if he discovered it.

These are all just my opinion but I figured I would share a different perspective.

 

[Jerrod]

The eyewitness account and composite sketch of April Tinsley's abductor was of a man in is 30's. Since she died in early 1988, the perp would be at least 60 years old by now.

"Back then (1988), police created a composite sketch of the suspect based on a witness seeing a white man in his 30s drag April into a light blue pickup truck."
"Cops armed with only an outdated composite sketch of a shaggy-haired white man in his 30s, and his DNA from the crime scene, come up empty-handed." ~ Crime Watch 5/2/2016

Eyewitnesses estimated he was in his 30s, the Parabon analysis indictated he was probably younger than that in 1988.

DNA carries no information about age, so Parabon cannot make or modify that determination with any degree of accuracy.

I don't know if this is strictly true. There is a concept called methylation...a sequence of when genes are turned on and off throughout the lifespan. I believe starting around 2015 this technology has been available to estimate age from blood or bone/tooth samples.

Yes. In fact, methylation is more than a concept; it's a valid process. Still, it wasn't a component of the Parabon procedure applied in April Tinsley's case. Even if it was, only 80% of age estimations using methylation are accurate within 5 years, plus or minus. So, to amend my original statement with help from your input, April's abductor today is likely to be around 60 years old, with an 80% chance of being as young as 55 or as old as 65. Lastly, it's undoubtedly academic anyway: A borderline illiterate child murderer in Ft. Wayne suddenly resurfacing in Delphi 29 years later with social media skills sufficient to lure 2 girls into a double murder is highly improbable.

 

[Deleted member 278]

It's always interesting to read other opinions in these threads. For instance, I see many people think LG intentionally recorded the killer thru quick thinking.

I don't mean this to sound disrespectful but for me, I've always believed the girls were taking a selfie video and caught the killer in the background by chance. I think they were enjoying the scenery and moving around while taking the video and that's why we only have a couple blurry images of BG in the background. Otherwise, if she intentionally recorded BG, I think we would have better video of him walking towards the girls. And BG probably would have noticed her recording him and taken the phone later to destroy. I believe that if LE had a video of BG walking, they would have released it.

This is what I think happened. The girls are enjoying themselves while taking a selfie at the end of the bridge. As they are recording, BG approaches from behind with his head down. He's doing this to watch his step and hide his true intention. As he gets closer to them, they hear him and turn around to see who it is. At this same time, I think LG kept recording but put her phone in her pocket because she was either caught off guard or that she thought it was the polite thing to do. At this point the that is BG pulls out a weapon and threatens the girls and tells them "Down the HIll". As he's leading them away, he doesn't realize that LG not only has her phone in her pocket but is also recording this tragedy. I also think this is why we only have the "Down the Hill" audio released because it was clearest audio before they began moving. At that point, I think the audio is too muffled to release anything worthwhile.

At some point as they are being lead away, her phone falls out of the pocket. Or maybe she intentionally dropped it so BG wouldn't find it. Either way I think the phone ends up on the ground without BG realizing it. I think BG checked the girls for any items after he committed this horrible crime but assumed LG didn't have a phone. If not, I can't imagine he would leave the phone if he discovered it.

These are all just my opinion but I figured I would share a different perspective.

YES! I also don't think they intentionally captured his image. I'm always afraid to post my true feelings here. I don't handle getting chewed up and spit out very well. I get enough flack just by being a JLWOP opponent. Thank you for posting this.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

It's always interesting to read other opinions in these threads. For instance, I see many people think LG intentionally recorded the killer thru quick thinking.

I don't mean this to sound disrespectful but for me, I've always believed the girls were taking a selfie video and caught the killer in the background by chance. I think they were enjoying the scenery and moving around while taking the video and that's why we only have a couple blurry images of BG in the background. Otherwise, if she intentionally recorded BG, I think we would have better video of him walking towards the girls. And BG probably would have noticed her recording him and taken the phone later to destroy. I believe that if LE had a video of BG walking, they would have released it.

This is what I think happened. The girls are enjoying themselves while taking a selfie at the end of the bridge. As they are recording, BG approaches from behind with his head down. He's doing this to watch his step and hide his true intention. As he gets closer to them, they hear him and turn around to see who it is. At this same time, I think LG kept recording but put her phone in her pocket because she was either caught off guard or that she thought it was the polite thing to do. At this point the that is BG pulls out a weapon and threatens the girls and tells them "Down the HIll". As he's leading them away, he doesn't realize that LG not only has her phone in her pocket but is also recording this tragedy. I also think this is why we only have the "Down the Hill" audio released because it was clearest audio before they began moving. At that point, I think the audio is too muffled to release anything worthwhile.

At some point as they are being lead away, her phone falls out of the pocket. Or maybe she intentionally dropped it so BG wouldn't find it. Either way I think the phone ends up on the ground without BG realizing it. I think BG checked the girls for any items after he committed this horrible crime but assumed LG didn't have a phone. If not, I can't imagine he would leave the phone if he discovered it.

These are all just my opinion but I figured I would share a different perspective.

RBBM

In one of the first press conferences, LE states (to the effect) 'that Liberty was a hero for having the sense to begin recording on her phone the criminal activity which was about to occur.' I'm pretty sure this is where most people here got that idea. I think it's the one where they released the audio clip.
JMO.

 

[Yemelyan]

Yes. In fact, methylation is more than a concept; it's a valid process. Still, it wasn't a component of the Parabon procedure applied in April Tinsley's case. Even if it was, only 80% of age estimations using methylation are accurate within 5 years, plus or minus. So, to amend my original statement with help from your input, April's abductor today is likely to be around 60 years old, with an 80% chance of being as young as 55 or as old as 65. Lastly, it's academic anyway: A borderline illiterate child murderer in Ft. Wayne suddenly resurfacing in Delphi 29 years later with social media skills sufficient to lure 2 girls into a double murder is highly improbable.

Thanks for your input. The "borderline illiterate" part I think is, as with most unsolved things, debatable as many believe that to be an intentional ruse. If you think social media skills played into the Delphi murders, then I can see how you reached that conclusion.

 

[Jethro4WS]

A K9 and handler are exiting the wooded area as Rescue Divers prepare to enter @ 1:07

Why the K9, or K9s, did not locate the bodies is something I've been unable to reconcile. However, the WTHR video was posted to youtube on Feb 15 and not the 14th so there is that consideration. The reporter states: "For the second afternoon, divers ...."

[video=youtube;u_WNHtqEUBo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_WNHtqEUBo[/video]

Okay, so at least on the 15th they had some kind of dog out there. It could be an evidence dog trained for a specific purpose rather than a search dog. I have done some quick looking around but I haven't found anything that says how long a human scent is viable for a dog to track it. I have found that the dogs are trained to follow the scent to the destination rather than backwards so such a search would have to have started where they were dropped off or at the south end of the bridge - if one was done. So my question is would the scent still be viable 21 1/2 hours (at the earliest) after the girls were last known to be alive (evidenced by the BG capture on the video frames and by the 2:30pm reference on the FBI billboards)? I know a lot depends on the temperature, wind, and humidity but I haven't come across any sources that put that together in terms of numbers so it could be compared to the approximate weather conditions at roughly 2:30-3:00pm on the 13th.

 

[Jethro4WS]

IIRC by the time the dogs had arrived on the 14th from a neighbouring state, the volunteers had already begun searching and had quickly found the girls by following a set of footprints.

There is information on the scanner thread about this but I can't discuss it here .

 

[rosesfromangels]

For those of you wondering how the K9s missed the remains during the search, here is my *theory* and *speculation*. This Perp is no novice. This is not his first kill. He is carefully studied, and had an exacting plan. He specifically had the girls cross the creek because he knew the dogs would lose the scent. He is a hunter, because he knows how dogs lose the scent. Not very tech saavy though.

 

[Hatfield]

I like to stay open to all theories because I feel they all are important and we never know which is the right one.

The selfie idea could be right although my question on that one is wouldnt the video picture have at least part of a girl in it if a selfie was being attempted. The BG screen capture seems to be mostly BG on the bridge. It almost appears that it was pointed at him only.

I suppose it could have been as the selfie was first attempted and before being lowered down to get the person doing the selfie.

 

[lonetraveler]

JMO...

I was just reminded by another sleuther a couple pages back that Libby's grandfather said she fought back. Do you have any thoughts on how she could have fought back and not got any of the perp's DNA on her?

This is not snark. I'm trying to wrap my head around possible scenarios. TIA.

I'm not the poster you are asking but my two cents worth is that when the comment is made that the victim fought for their lives, it usually means that skin was found underneath the fingernails or maybe hair was found entangled around their fingers. Or hopefully the murderer's blood in found on their body or clothes. JMO

 

[lonetraveler]

I like to stay open to all theories because I feel they all are important and we never know which is the right one.

The selfie idea could be right although my question on that one is wouldnt the video picture have at least part of a girl in it if a selfie was being attempted. The BG screen capture seems to be mostly BG on the bridge. It almost appears that it was pointed at him only.

I suppose it could have been as the selfie was first attempted and before being lowered down to get the person doing the selfie.

Just jumping off your post but an idea I pondered was maybe the girls wanted the BG to think that they were taking a selfie so that it would not be obvious that they were taking a photo of him.

 

[Hatfield]

One different theory I have entertained and not shared much because this one is a little out there.

I have always wondered if BG was down below the bridge waiting for someone to pass above. And once they did he may have crawled up the tressles to get on top of the bridge and come in right behind them.

I dont think its that hard to climb solid tressles on a bridge like that for someone in fairly good shape.

One reason I havent brought this theory up much is I dont think it matters a whole lot. Because even if he did that I am not sure it helps the case one way or another. I guess it could prove his intent was waiting for an ambush. I do hope LE searched closely under that bridge for any evidence he may have dropped.

 

[Hatfield]

Just jumping off your post but an idea I pondered was maybe the girls wanted the BG to think that they were taking a selfie so that it would not be obvious that they were taking a photo of him.

That is a good possibility because they would be able to see their own camera if they did that and would know they had him in the frame.
I also think the camera looks to be slightly higher so it could be that she held it up a little high so it got over her shoulder looking back at him.

Good point.

 

[minazoe]

I also think the girls saw him with someone......

so they saw him with someone so then he was following them and then they said on the phone who is that weird guy ?or what ever they said and then he marched them down the hill and killed them, Abby put up a fight but he did not rape these girls?

it doesn't seem to match the evidence. the girls were assaulted and this was a sex crime one hundred percent, the killer was on his way to get those girls and he went there to find them. I believe he lured them, they were expecting a cute teenage boy from another school, I think he picked the venue and knew 100% they would be there.

look at how he is walking, look at his jacket, the cops know how it all went down...and they are warning parents. this guy is a ghost.

moo baby, moo

 

[Deleted member 278]

Who went to pick up the girls? I saw some initials here the other day but don't remember what they are. And, if a full name is allowed, please tell me that. Thanks.

 

[modsiw]

I like to stay open to all theories because I feel they all are important and we never know which is the right one.

The selfie idea could be right although my question on that one is wouldnt the video picture have at least part of a girl in it if a selfie was being attempted. The BG screen capture seems to be mostly BG on the bridge. It almost appears that it was pointed at him only.

I suppose it could have been as the selfie was first attempted and before being lowered down to get the person doing the selfie.

JMO, I think the girls were cropped out and LE enlarged BG in the background. As I stated in my previous post, if LG was intending to record BG, LE would release video of him walking.

 

[Deleted member 278]

JMO, I think the girls were cropped out and LE enlarged BG in the background. As I stated in my previous post, if LG was intending to record BG, LE would release video of him walking.

Yes, cropping would be my idea also.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I agree with this. And I also think that when someone close to you dies tragically and suddenly, you might have the tendency to create a narrative in your own mind of what happened in order for you to cope. For Libby's grandfather, "she fought like hell" might be his own interpretation of her wounds and injuries. Thinking that at least she was able to fight her attacker may be the thing that lets him move forward emotionally from her loss. And I do not mean this as any disrespect to those poor girls.

Thankyou Yemelyan. I wanted to reply explaining this but didn't want to be too graphic or disrespectful. You have put it well and this is what I meant in my post.

 

[Hatfield]

Okay, so at least on the 15th they had some kind of dog out there. It could be an evidence dog trained for a specific purpose rather than a search dog. I have done some quick looking around but I haven't found anything that says how long a human scent is viable for a dog to track it. I have found that the dogs are trained to follow the scent to the destination rather than backwards so such a search would have to have started where they were dropped off or at the south end of the bridge - if one was done. So my question is would the scent still be viable 21 1/2 hours (at the earliest) after the girls were last known to be alive (evidenced by the BG capture on the video frames and by the 2:30pm reference on the FBI billboards)? I know a lot depends on the temperature, wind, and humidity but I haven't come across any sources that put that together in terms of numbers so it could be compared to the approximate weather conditions at roughly 2:30-3:00pm on the 13th.

This is JMO

This area looks to be in that big field area which would be
North of where the bodies were found where it comes out to a field. On the case map there is a road called W 300 North that gives access to the creek and bridge area from that back side.

We have seen pictures of that field from that angle where there was lots of vehicles and looked to be like a car path right through the crops. I think this picture could be that spot where these dogs may be entering.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...ll=40.591633359073775,-86.63625220629882&z=17