IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #66

[terpstra1]

Yes Reacher, that is what I was getting at. BG with his portable pot meth kit in his jacket, off to cook some gear maybe. Gets mad someone takes his pic . I have also answered the private property issues similar to RIP Meagan & Johnny response also.

Imo anyone who knows anything about cooking meth wouldnt wear his meth cooking gear. It's highly toxic, possibly fatal.

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[pepper 34]

I'm not seeing a sexual motive. Maybe because I just can't go there, those sweet girls...., but more so because I think we'll find out there was over kill.

He was angry angry angry.

My thoughts are that it was a sexually motivated murder but I agree with what you wrote about anger and rage. Aren't there those who are sexually sadistic who derive their sexual pleasure from the act of killing alone? I think so. The murders appear to have been planned so exactly and over so quickly; I am wondering if BG isn't a sexual sadist who received his pleasure from terrifying the girls.... driving them forward to the CS... and, I can also imagine the CS being the pre-planned place of slaughter. After all, that's what's going on in the processing plant right down the road and I have read some people who work in such places are sadists who thoroughly enjoy their work. BG could have had a stun gun, as well, which would have easily felled each victim once arriving at the CS. One victim would have become aware when her friend fell from a stun gun. She may then have tried to attempt escape which would explain why the victims were somewhat separated; but in the same area, when found. I also think the murders were recorded but I think the murders were over by just after 3 pm. If not, I see no reason why BG would not have heard and taken the phone.... because Libby's father received no answer to his call just after 3 pm. I think nobody was alive or present to hear it ring.
This is one of my theories and jmo.
ETA: Info on BG possibly throwing phone into the creek is good theory imo. I think, if he did do that, he did it after victims were deceased. Libby's father call shortly after 3 pm may have made BG call off any possible plans beyond killing the victims.
Oh... the variables and possibilities when facts are scarce... jmo

 

[pepper 34]

Foxfire was a big fisherman. He has a thread here to honor him. Http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?325542-Longtime-WS-er-FOXFIRE-has-passed-away

He was my best friend/ colleague on WS and we talked almost everyday for 4 years or however long.

Can someone please repost that picture of Abby fishing?

Foxfire was also a former Fire Captain, iirc...)( Any news on the 4 girls killed in the fire?)

He was also ahead of his time on all the ISIS stuff...don't feel the need to go there on this one. Thank God. Fishing, wilderness, hunter, predator, serial killer...note to self to look up what he had to say about Gary Ridgeway.

Here is Abby.

 

[Deleted member 718]

So it's a shirttail we see in the photo. Not a fanny pack.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/36191083/...afety-at-delphi-hiking-trail-where-teens-died

August 22, 2017

"(Indiana State Police Superintendent Douglas Carter) quoted:

He pointed to the picture that had already been released.

"Someone knows who this individual is," he said. "Someone knows who this individual is. Is it a family member? Is it a neighbor? Is it an acquaintance? Is it an associate? Or maybe that one guy that lives over at that one place that's just kinda not right?"

"Maybe it's his jeans," he added. "Maybe it's his jacket or his sweatshirt. Maybe it's his shirttail. Maybe it's his posture. Maybe it's the right hand in his pocket."

"As poor as this picture is, somebody knows," he said.

And he had a message for the suspect:

"If you're watching, we'll find you."

 

[Spiritecho]

I have no idea how accurate this is. Anyone can follow the link and do their own research and draw their own conclusions in regards to the cell towers.
I am also unclear on the dates of the data..They may not be current!

http://www.homefacts.com/fcctowers/Indiana/Carroll-County/Delphi.html

http://www.cellreception.com/towers/towers.php?city=Delphi&state_abr=in

http://find.mapmuse.com/map/cell-towers/goto/789881877/indiana-rsa-no.-4-limited-partnership

 

[pepper 34]

Kinda difficult to hide a truck in that area. How would he have gotten to the trail w/o transportation and w/o being seen along a road?

BG could have discovered the trail due to his employment (truck driver is a possibility) ... but would return to the trail using a car or arriving by some method where he could just walk into the trail area.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Imo anyone who knows anything about cooking meth wouldnt wear his meth cooking gear. It's highly toxic, possibly fatal.

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What if he hasn't used it yet?

 

[No it's not]

So it's a shirttail we see in the photo. Not a fanny pack.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/36191083/...afety-at-delphi-hiking-trail-where-teens-died

August 22, 2017

"(Indiana State Police Superintendent Douglas Carter) quoted:

He pointed to the picture that had already been released.

"Someone knows who this individual is," he said. "Someone knows who this individual is. Is it a family member? Is it a neighbor? Is it an acquaintance? Is it an associate? Or maybe that one guy that lives over at that one place that's just kinda not right?"

"Maybe it's his jeans," he added. "Maybe it's his jacket or his sweatshirt. Maybe it's his shirttail. Maybe it's his posture. Maybe it's the right hand in his pocket."

"As poor as this picture is, somebody knows," he said.

And he had a message for the suspect:

"If you're watching, we'll find you."

Possible. What makes it so hard to see is the light hitting the waist area from different angles, as the individual is making a turn, and making the object looking dimensional from appearing what looks like a bag of some kind to suggesting it could be a glove or gloves:

If it's a shirttail, it is unclear, if it's the blue, yellow or red part, or all of it:

All IMO

-Nin

 

[Gisjoe]

I think BG is luckier than he is smart. Anyone else think he approached the Bridge from the SE end and walked to the north side to wait for the girls to arrive? I believe he had to have some knowledge that no one was home at the house at the SE end of the bridge. (The house at the end of the pvt dr).

Question: did the girls come to the bridge from Libby's house? Or Abby's? I know they were dropped off on the north side. Just trying to figure out where they came from.

I do not think BG intentionally had the girls cross the creek. I think they were trying to get away from him and he ended up catching up to them. He could have taken the girls a few different ways when they got down the hill to the gravel rd.

1. That house at the end of the pvt dr.
2. He could have had a car parked anywhere along that gravel rd. Maybe BG originally planned to kidnap the girls but they put up too much of a fight. And when they crossed the creek, he had no choice but to kill them and get outta there.

I'm curious to know who owned/ lived in the house at the end of the pvt dr prior to the current owners.


All of this is my own opinion. Just throwing ideas out there.


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[lstiff]

Can you write more about your idea that she took a photo of him because he was not a stranger to her (as you said, because they had been lured by him)? I want to be able to see where you are coming from because I had been thinking the opposite. My original thought was that he maybe passed by them at least once already and did something out of the ordinary that rose to the level of creepy but not "call 911" creepy. In fact, my theory was that he said something lewd in order to see how they would react. It might have made them uncomfortable but not triggered a full feeling that they needed to flee for their lives. Then they either take his picture when they get the chance because they first brushed off what he said but now that he's coming back they want to show people the old creep on the trail or because they realize they are trapped and he's coming back.

See, I thought that as well b/c she started recording when he said "down the hill" so she must have known something wasn't right to start that video/audio. IMO

ETA: I wonder if she took the picture of Liberty b/c there was a guy in the background (speculation by some who analyzed photos) IDK if that is the case but it made me wonder b/c Abigail seems like she was very aware and great at thinking ahead. Also, JMO.

 

[No it's not]

Lets hope this is solved way before February. Today is the day. I feel the perp probably follows this thread daily.

:wave: to all the lurkers.

:jail: to the lurker.

-Nin

 

[pepper 34]

Possible. What makes it so hard to see is the light hitting the waist area from different angles, as the individual is making a turn, and making the object looking dimensional from appearing what looks like a bag of some kind to suggesting it could be a glove or gloves:

If it's a shirttail, it is unclear, if it's the blue, yellow or red part, or all of it:

All IMO

-Nin

I can't tell if it's some sort of bag or if it's a shirt tail. I do think though, if it's a shirt, he has it pulled down that way purposely to hide something.

 

[lstiff]

For those of you wondering what the heck we are talking about, we all had tremendous respect for an exceptional sleuther who went by Wolfscratch or Firefox depending on the forum he was posting. He passed away unexpectedly a few months ago, and is sorely missed. What a great guy and such a terrific sleuther.

I agree! He was one of a kind!

 

[wallaby]

I guess I am a "Lurker" on this thread. I keep checking this one and hoping for a break in the case, it's stayed with me since I heard about it ��. I haven't really had much of anything to contribute but if I do I will chip in. Not from Indiana but grew up in Ohio.

 

[Yemelyan]

Just me, I guess, but if I saw a creepy guy, I would turn the other way, not take a photo. I wonder if LG was somehow lured, then at the last minute realized this was a set-up, a reason to take the photo.

Okay, gotcha. I believe we are actually thinking along the same lines, just different scenarios. I guess I'm thinking he did more than just look creepy...that he said something or did something in their initial encounter that made them uncomfortable. Maybe they were thinking that they would show his photo to their families when they were picked up that day ("This is the guy who was bothering us"), not realizing he was about to escalate to violence.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I think BG is luckier than he is smart. Anyone else think he approached the Bridge from the SE end and walked to the north side to wait for the girls to arrive? I believe he had to have some knowledge that no one was home at the house at the SE end of the bridge. (The house at the end of the pvt dr).

Question: did the girls come to the bridge from Libby's house? Or Abby's? I know they were dropped off on the north side. Just trying to figure out where they came from.

I do not think BG intentionally had the girls cross the creek. I think they were trying to get away from him and he ended up catching up to them. He could have taken the girls a few different ways when they got down the hill to the gravel rd.

1. That house at the end of the pvt dr.
2. He could have had a car parked anywhere along that gravel rd. Maybe BG originally planned to kidnap the girls but they put up too much of a fight. And when they crossed the creek, he had no choice but to kill them and get outta there.

I'm curious to know who owned/ lived in the house at the end of the pvt dr prior to the current owners.


All of this is my own opinion. Just throwing ideas out there.


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I agree that they could have gone several ways after heading down onto that drive. I don't see the straight line from the end of the bridge as the obvious route necessarily As you say he could have a vehicle on the drive close to the house and creek that he was taking them too and when they saw the vehicle they escaped and ran diagonally across the sandbar or straight to get to the other side. He then did as you say, heard the phone ring, tossed it in the creek as he crossed back to his car parked at the house. It could explain his quick getaway too and nobody seeing him in his wet dirty clothes or with scratches on his face.

 

[kkdj]

Possible. What makes it so hard to see is the light hitting the waist area from different angles, as the individual is making a turn, and making the object looking dimensional from appearing what looks like a bag of some kind to suggesting it could be a glove or gloves:

If it's a shirttail, it is unclear, if it's the blue, yellow or red part, or all of it:

All IMO

-Nin

Does it go all the way across? Could it be and apron or a toolbag worn by construction workers?

 

[Jethro4WS]

1. The last reward offer I saw was $200,000. That's enough to persuade most people to take that chance. If you knew for sure it was him, you also know for sure he's going away for life or more if you make that call... and you get rich. It's likely that reward amount actually generated calls that may not have been made without it, by people hoping to cash in. Perhaps a cashier that sees someone similar on a weekly basis... a coworker who thinks he looks familiar... a customer that uses his services from time to time... by now they would have put together the face and name of an obvious local and executed a warrant. The lack of a quick catch in this case suggests the people close to the perp aren't paying attention to the press on this case, likely because they are far away from it.

2. There is no indication of a ritual or master plan that needs to be played out like in the movie "Seven". Those sorts of killings are rarer than rare, and aren't usually played out in broad daylight. If LE did find a conversation with the perp on the phone, they likely would not have let it be known they have the phone. They would want to make contact with him if they couldn't trace an IP or phone number. You wouldn't want him deleting accounts or covering his digital tracks.

3. The trail is very easy to find. Go to the area on Google Maps. Type in "hiking trails" like a perp would, and there it is, directions and all. It also just happens to be the closest one to the highway... which would be your first choice if you want a quick getaway back out of town. By choosing a child victim, you know they are going to be missed as soon as it gets dark or sooner. He knew he had a quick getaway.

I just wanted to make one observation. Because of all the searches for Delphi and trails and Monon High Bridge and such it pops much higher in the search results. Many things added to Google maps and such came after the crime rather than before. Before the crime typing in "Delphi trails" into Google search would probably have come back with pages of things in Greece.

That said, anyone that wanted to find a trail (or trails) could easily have done so and fired up Google maps and was able to get a good idea of where things were at in terms of getting there and such.

 

[kkdj]

Have we decided that BG did not take the girls somewhere? My personal thinking is that this was sexually motivated and that he quite possibly took his time. After all, we do have the one girl deceased on the 13th and the other on the 14th. Could he have had them in a basement for awhile on a nearby property? So many unanswered questions.

 

[Area52]

Have we decided that BG did not take the girls somewhere? My personal thinking is that this was sexually motivated and that he quite possibly took his time. After all, we do have the one girl deceased on the 13th and the other on the 14th. Could he have had them in a basement for awhile on a nearby property? So many unanswered questions.

According to the court papers asking for the autopsy report to be withheld due to the investigation, the coroner ruled that both girls died on February 13.