IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #71

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  • #781
Case Summary

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SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM

Case Number 08C01-1710-MC-000198
CourtCarroll Circuit Court
TypeMC - Miscellaneous Criminal
Filed10/05/2017
Status10/05/2017*,*Pending**(active)*


SubjectSubpoena Duces TecumState Plaintiff
State of Indiana

State of Indiana

Attorney

Robert Thomas Ives*
#485308

Attorney address*

101 W Main St.
Suite 205
Delphi, IN 46923

Attorney phone*

765-564-4514(W)


Charges

Show all charge details

0102/13/2017No Charge Applicable/M

Chronological Case Summary

10/05/2017

Case Opened as a New Filing

10/05/2017

Request for Subpoena Duces Tecum Filed

Filed By:

State of Indiana

File Stamp:

10/05/2017

10/05/2017

Motion Filed

Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed.

Filed By:

State of Indiana

File Stamp:

10/05/2017

10/05/2017

Subpoena/Summons Issued

Judicial Officer:

Diener, Benjamin A.

File Stamp:

10/05/2017
If you click on the charges tab,it shows NCAM. I'm not a legal terminology expert so maybe it means something totally different than what I found.Looking up NCAM,the results came back for something to do with DNA and the other came back for an FCC statute.Maybe someone can dive in deeper on those things.
*or could just mean no charge applicable
*[h=4]SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM=a writ ordering a person to attend a court and bring relevant documents.[/h]
 
  • #782
<modsnip>

There is no way he is the killer. Cut from the same philosophical cloth, maybe. But not our Indiana guy. The killer of Abby and Libby is from Indiana. This is my first comment on this site/case but I've been lurking here and following it dutifully across all formats. <modsnip>Can we go back to the facts (what we know) and discuss from there? We have the photos, we have the rough timeline, we have some info from LE.<modsnip> These girls literally have a photo and voice of their killer, bodies left behind and LE couldn't put things together. And remember, LE has more info than we do at this point. IF WE had that info, maybe we would handle it more intelligently <modsnip>

It is my opinion that the person works for the packing plant.

I'm just sitting back and waiting for LE. DNA tests take a while. In the meantime I'm just trying to keep an open mind. I don't believe we've heard if DN was connected to the murder in CO at this point. I do believe whoever did this was familiar with the trail and had a reason - worked nights, unemployed, etc. - to be out on the trail during a typical workday.
 
  • #783
I also see something else that was filed on the 5th in Carroll County...so it may just be related to that and not to the perp at all.
 
  • #784
Are we allowed to say if it was for a possible death certificate or not?
 
  • #785
Each case is dealt with individually so there’s no ‘one size fits all’. The aim is to keep children with their families wherever possible and interventions will take place to promote the safety of children living with their parents, but if a child is deemed to be at risk of harm they will be removed from the parents care. Depending on the offences taken place, not all RSOs may be deemed as a risk to children, but if the offences have involved children then it is probable they will be deemed as a risk to children. If someone is a risk to children, they shouldn’t be living with them. The partner will have to make the choice of continuing with the relationship and risk losing their children, or to leave the relationship and continue parenting their children. So even if they are his own children, if he is a risk to children, he isn’t allowed to reside with them.

Even taking the RSO status out of the equation, there is heaps of research on the impact of DV on children. As well as having a significant impact on their emotional wellbeing, there is the risk of a child being physically hurt if they try to intervene or get caught in the crossfire. If DV is raised as an issue, there’s support available to both the perpetrator and victim to try and overcome this, so does not necessarily mean a child would be removed straight away. But if it is longstanding then that could be an outcome. I think I’ve read that KN had a restraining order at some point, which to me would suggest the DV was significant and ongoing. It would suggest that she and therefore her children were at risk of harm from DN, so again he shouldn’t be living with them. It could be that since the restraining order was put in place, DN demonstrated he had made such changes that he was no longer a risk of perpetrating DV, so they could return to living as a family - who knows!

DV = domestic violence
I agree with you but have seen numerous situations in which children are able to continue to live with their biological parents despite being a RSO. So much of this is dependent on the assigned case worker and judge in that particular county.

I recently read about a case in which a man was convicted of rape with two victims and impregnated one. After serving a very minimal sentence, he was granted joint custody of the child.

Even with a history of DV, if he has complied with the parent agency agreement (attended parenting classes, therapy, was employed, clean drug screens, anger management, etc etc), he would not have his rights terminated. Given that he consistently checked in regarding his RSO status, it seems he figured out the system enough to meet those type of requirements while obviously not actually gaining anything from said services and requirements.

Given the immediate removal of the children from both parents following his arrest, it does imply there may be a history with protective services. Jmo.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
 
  • #786
  • #787
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-familial-dna-20161023-snap-story.html

In consideration of POIs besides DN.

This is an article about the use of familial DNA and how LE can find a perp by comparing DNA from a crime scene to family DNA already in the system. They actually used this to prosecute Dennis Rader, by subpoenaing his daughter's Pap smear results. This would be a very lengthy process I'm sure.
 
  • #788
If you click on the charges tab,it shows NCAM. I'm not a legal terminology expert so maybe it means something totally different than what I found.Looking up NCAM,the results came back for something to do with DNA and the other came back for an FCC statute.Maybe someone can dive in deeper on those things.
*or could just mean no charge applicable
*[h=4]SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM=a writ ordering a person to attend a court and bring relevant documents.[/h]

I can't find anything deeper either.

Interestingly when I Googled JUST Statute NCAM and nothing else I got the Indiana Code 2017
http://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2017/ic/titles/001

Got me but my sense is that it is specific to Indiana and likely means Non Criminal.

JMO
 
  • #789
  • #790
I for my part don't forget the photo of some flowers in a shed ... and would think: one or two girls have been there before laying down on RL property.

"Flowers in a shed"? I must've missed that?
 
  • #791
Maybe R hand "in pocket" (per LE, to be on lookout for...) wasn't exactly IN any pocket but rather a R hand down his pants, IYKWIM ?

Could mean re a mast. man perhaps. Because I think it is not his j...l BG is pulling, I had never thought of that.
 
  • #792
From the document:


My humble guess is it stands for No Charge Applicable as listed above.

Ahhh. Yes - No Charge Applicable/M = NCAM.

But what is the M?
:coffeews: :thinking:
 
  • #793
Maybe R hand "in pocket" (per LE, to be on lookout for...) wasn't exactly IN any pocket but rather a R hand down his pants, IYKWIM ?
DN was prone to exhibit himself according to his criminal record. And that day in the bridge he was doing what he likes to do, IMO :(
 
  • #794
I for my part don't forget the photo of some flowers in a shed ... and would think: one or two girls have been there before laying down on RL property.

I don't recall a photo of flowers in a shed being posted by a credible source. Can you post? If not I think it falls under "rumor" ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #795
Well, this morning, right now "living under bridges" is what really stands out (among other things,obviously, but what I'm thinking about specifically today).

* considering the last known photo was taken on a bridge.
 
  • #796
DN was prone to exhibit himself according to his criminal record. And that day in the bridge he was doing what he likes to do, IMO :(

But DN has not been named as the suspect.

That comment about the photo has been floating around since the beginning.

Again, this was hashed out on the image thread where there was a verified expert opining on the image.

I wish this rumor would be put to rest because the expert explained many factors about the image. That was not something he saw.
 
  • #797
I don't recall a photo of flowers in a shed being posted by a credible source. Can you post? If not I think it falls under "rumor" ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
IIRC it was a pic taken in Mears barn but that is JMO so I don't have a link sorry. There were also flowers at the end of the bridge and at the CS on RL land. It doesn't necessarily mean anything imo.
 
  • #798
But DN has not been named as the suspect.

That comment about the photo has been floating around since the beginning.

Again, this was hashed out on the image thread where there was a verified expert opining on the image.

I wish this rumor would be put to rest because the expert explained many factors about the image. That was not something he saw.
It's not a rumour that DN exposed himself in the past and is the reason he has numerous convictions for it. He was homeless living under a bridge that very week and something made L & A talk about the guy behind them and film him too. It is not a great stretch of the imagination to think the girls may have been witness to this. It is what he does and travels long distances sometimes specifically to do it. I hope Libby's actions that day nail BG.
 
  • #799
It doesn't look like they are getting ready to file charges.
It looks like they were filing a court order to obtain something.
What, we won't know they sealed it.

I can't find anything deeper either.

Interestingly when I Googled JUST Statute NCAM and nothing else I got the Indiana Code 2017
http://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2017/ic/titles/001

Got me but my sense is that it is specific to Indiana and likely means Non Criminal.

JMO

From the document:


My humble guess is it stands for No Charge Applicable as listed above.

Agree with all of you. Does appear it is for a subpoena, and not for filing any new charges.

( It truly takes a village here. So thankful for everyone's input! )
 
  • #800
It's not a rumour that DN exposed himself in the past and is the reason he has numerous convictions for it. He was homeless living under a bridge that very week and something made L & A talk about the guy behind them and film him too. It is not a great stretch of the imagination to think the girls may have been witness to this. It is what he does and travels long distances sometimes specifically to do it. I hope Libby's actions that day nail BG.

SS I think you misunderstood what I was saying :(

The rumor comment was to what may/may not be depicted in the image.
That is all I was addressing w/regard to rumor.

The other comment I made is that DN has not been named a suspect.
 
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