IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #72

[Jabarn]

I am guilty of needing to scroll and roll more!

Hold on. Things are quiet now. There is nothing much going on with the case, but this. Until we know for sure, I am going to pay attention to every detail. We don’t know what kind of DNA evidence was collected... cell phone data appears to take some time, from what I have learned here.

 

[mtnlites]

Back in the 50's DN would have been found to be criminally insane and locked up for good. The USA did not have people like this running around terrifying people with hatchets and genitals. He is wanton and brazen with no desire whatsoever to control or restrain himself.

In finding him criminally insane he meets the criteria so we no longer are concerned with his mental health because he is both a criminal and insane and a danger to society and too dangerous for even a normal prison and should be medicated.
and kept out of the general population.

it's sad there are people like this.

DN is a danger to society.

MOO

In the 1950s, LOTS of people were locked up for being criminally insane-whether they were or not. Women were locked up by husbands who no longer wish to be married, for having children out of wedlock, for epilepsy, for depression, etc. I understand what you're saying, that he needs to be locked up, but I am actually pretty happy to be living in a time in which it's not so easy to throw someone in the nut house.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

In the 1950s, LOTS of people were locked up for being criminally insane-whether they were or not. Women were locked up by husbands who no longer wish to be married, for having children out of wedlock, for epilepsy, for depression, etc. I understand what you're saying, that he needs to be locked up, but I am actually pretty hagppy to be living in a time in which it's not so easy to throw someone in the nut house.

RBBM

O/T, but pertaining to the part of your post which I bolded...
I know of a case where this happened within the past 10 years, so unfortunately it does still happen.
JMO

 

[InMyOpinion999]

Jabarn, 100% agree.

And even though LE said they talked to who they wanted to talk to in CO, it doesn't mean DN did not excercise his right to remain silent and not answer any questions...thus making ruling him in or out take much longer...

 

[sumzero]

RSBM

KN herself said DN had control of car keys while they were in Co. Only difference on 2/13 is that they were separated due to the broken nose incident and divorce proceedings. I doubt he would have been allowed to go with her to the hospital because of that. Because of the assault, DN was homeless and actually living under a bridge in a car that had been lent to him, so he did have access to a vehicle. Regarding public sex offence, I believe it is classed as a sexual assault and that is why he is on the RSO list.

MOO.

Some logical inferences based on what’s been reported:

Had the hospital restricted DN from accompanying KN to the doctor’s office, she’d probably remember that fact. From what she has said, he apparently showed interest in being a dad. So, it’s entirely plausible that he was with her for her appointment.

The Bortners let DN sleep in the car (on cold nights?), probably on their own property. There is no indication that he was allowed to drive it (if the car was even driveable). If he had been driving it, he could’ve driven himself to his LE check-ins. But he needed KN to drive him. (Interestingly, the Bortners befriended DN but never let him sleep in the house. Doubt they’d let him take off with their car.)

Public indecency is not classified as sexual assault unless the subject engages in physical contact with a victim.

 

[Daey34]

Having worked in many hospitals, I've never experienced a situation where the hospital was aware that someone was a sex offender or abuser and thus restricted visitation. Not saying it doesn't happen. But we would have to have been told that a visitor isn't welcome and/or be informed of his status.

The only problem I have with your logic is the same as everyone else's about the 13th and 14th appointments of KN and DN. Nothing she has said seems credible, so why assume she drove him to the SO registration on the 14th. If we assumed she's capable of lying, which she is, the whole claim about the 14th on her part may be totally false. He could've driven her car or his friend's car for all we know. Not that th fact that he drove himself would implicate him in the murders. Just saying we still no NOTHING about the vehicle situation basically.

Some logical inferences based on what’s been reported:

Had the hospital restricted DN from accompanying KN to the doctor’s office, she’d probably remember that fact. From what she has said, he apparently showed interest in being a dad. So, it’s entirely plausible that he was with her for her appointment.

The Bortners let DN sleep in the car (on cold nights?), probably on their own property. There is no indication that he was allowed to drive it (if the car was even driveable). If he had been driving it, he could’ve driven himself to his LE check-ins. But he needed KN to drive him. (Interestingly, the Bortners befriended DN but never let him sleep in the house. Doubt they’d let him take off with their car.)

Public indecency is not classified as sexual assault unless the subject engages in physical contact with a victim.

 

[Nancy1954]

Another lurker here that would like to share my thoughts..

I don't think the BG & DN are the same person...nor do I think BG & RL are the same person. The sketch throws me off..it confuses what the bridge guys features in the photos actually look like..so I only go by the photos that Liberty took. When I looked close at his bridge photos I felt fear...to me he looks scary. I see his mouth as being open..talking to the girls perhaps? To me it looks like he is wearing a nylon vest with a plaid shirt underneath. I wonder if there might be someone/something behind him because that area is 'clouded out'. I can see eye glasses in one of the photos. His eyes...they look evil..To do what he has done he is a psychopathic serial killer.. dangerous.. cunning..and I pray to God that he is stopped soon!

Just my own two~cents. Thanks for listening.

 

[Boxer]

Having worked in many hospitals, I've never experienced a situation where the hospital was aware that someone was a sex offender or abuser and thus restricted visitation. Not saying it doesn't happen. But we would have to have been told that a visitor isn't welcome and/or be informed of his status.

The only problem I have with your logic is the same as everyone else's about the 13th and 14th appointments of KN and DN. Nothing she has said seems credible, so why assume she drove him to the SO registration on the 14th. If we assumed she's capable of lying, which she is, the whole claim about the 14th on her part may be totally false. He could've driven her car or his friend's car for all we know. Not that th fact that he drove himself would implicate him in the murders. Just saying we still no NOTHING about the vehicle situation basically.

Bortners see him on 2/14.

https://www.wthr.com/article/state-...o-interview-person-of-interest-in-delphi-case

 

[DarkSkink]

She is trying to get her kids back. She has to publicly distance herself from him, which is likely why she keeps doing interviews.

 

[cathdawg]

What exact day did they see him. he was living in their son's car. Apparently, RB was friends with DN UNTIL he broke into their home. She said they found him a place to stay.!

 

[cathdawg]

Sorry appt for DN Feb 14/17

 

[gregjrichards]

Another lurker here that would like to share my thoughts..

I don't think the BG & DN are the same person...nor do I think BG & RL are the same person. The sketch throws me off..it confuses what the bridge guys features in the photos actually look like..so I only go by the photos that Liberty took. When I looked close at his bridge photos I felt fear...to me he looks scary. I see his mouth as being open..talking to the girls perhaps? To me it looks like he is wearing a nylon vest with a plaid shirt underneath. I wonder if there might be someone/something behind him because that area is 'clouded out'. I can see eye glasses in one of the photos. His eyes...they look evil..To do what he has done he is a psychopathic serial killer.. dangerous.. cunning..and I pray to God that he is stopped soon!

Just my own two~cents. Thanks for listening.

When the attack happened DN was a lot heavier. The photo of him sitting in hospital with a heavier build, holding the baby with the thick goatee, still makes me think he could be BG. We are not allowed to post that photo here as its source cannot be verified.

 

[cathdawg]

I never thought that blurry picture of BG looked like the sketch that was released July /17. I also wondered why LE never offered an age range???

 

[gregjrichards]

I never thought that blurry picture of BG looked like the sketch that was released July /17. I also wondered why LE never offered an age range???

They probably don’t want the public deciding for themselves whether a suspect could be BG or not. People might not phone or email in a suspect if they think he is too young or too old with an age range law enforcement could have given.

 

[cathdawg]

I personally think they were on DN for some time. He is a dead ringer as far as the sketch goes.
I found it rather interesting that on the day that his "step brother's" murderer was convicted in a CO Court (Sept 14/17) Tim Watkins goes missing and was subsequently found to be murdered. Did DN go into yrt another rage?

 

[DeDee]

I think the twist is simply that the girls got their attacker on video.

My apologies for strongly disagreeing about the twist in the case.

LEO could have said, "Remember, we said there was a twist, well, we have this video LG took and we've managed to grab a couple of images that we wish to share today in hopes it may prompt a memory of this guy seen at MHB." Or, "Remember the twist in the case, we have managed to obtain an audio of the BG where he is saying three words: Down the Hill". Listen carefully.

The twist, imho, has never been revealed. It won't be revealed unless there is a trial. I am haunted by a comment that "the murders are things nightmares are made of".

The LEOs gathered for the initial presser were shaken to the core. One struggled to maintain composure when he spoke. Absolutely, it is dreadful, horrific and tragic to discover two, young, female children dead in the woods. These are experienced Officers who are trained to expect horrendous encounters with unspeakable manners of deaths.

So, politely, no. The video and audio are not the twist in A&Ls heinous, unfathomable sight witnessed at their crime scene. <modsnip>

 

[cathdawg]

There are many inconsistencies with what KN has said to the news reporters, I am not sure if she will fold and give in at some point however, I think she knows a heck of a lot more.

 

[cathdawg]

I agree I think it was a heinous crime. I have heard a lot of rumours how the bodies were found, condition etc. I believe that it was not a direct sexually motivated murder, it involved rage and some form of retaliation not directly against the girls however against someone close to the killer. They, unfortunately, got the brunt of it all.

 

[ReggieHammond]

I agree with all you said except i dont think JD is a POI. I definitely don't think its DN either. I think BG is in his 40s or 50s, a serial killer, and not local. I dont even think he had his phone on him that day, or turned it off/removed the battery. I think he's mostly old school, a daredevil risk taker, a roamer, and very ordinary looking. I think he is above average intelligence, definitely not a low IQ kinda guy, no. Genius? Nope, but definitely pretty intelligent especially in certain areas.

When I first saw DN's mugshot (one of them), I thought he had a resemblance to the sketch. But, like you, everytime I have seen the photo of BG, he has always looked like an "older" guy to me.

As time passes, it seems to me DN is not the guy, surely LE would've had a DNA match by now...or they have no DNA from the scene, which I shudder to think, will make this case very difficult to solve...My .02

 

[Gumbeaux]

I personally think they were on DN for some time. He is a dead ringer as far as the sketch goes.
I found it rather interesting that on the day that his "step brother's" murderer was convicted in a CO Court (Sept 14/17) Tim Watkins goes missing and was subsequently found to be murdered. Did DN go into yrt another rage?

I believe that despite the intensive investigation, LE initially failed to realize that DN was no longer complying with his RSO check-ins. I envision LE taking a fresh look at the basic possibilities & he then stood out as non-compliant. They reviewed his record, plus maybe a few interviews with acquaintances. Enough boxes were checked with DN as POI that they created a sketch from one of his mug shots.