IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #73

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

For those of you who believe the sketch is very accurate and think Daniel Nations is the one, I implore you to read this and do some research on the numerous, countless, endless research studies conducted about eyewitnesses and their ability or non ability for memory recall.. and exactly how difficult it is. This particular article throws numbers around of about 9 to 12% accuracy rates . A sketch is not a portrait, it's not a photo. and I also implore you to do some experiments on your own. Go out about town and have one of your friends interact with strangers in public and then go back and question those people and ask them to recall and describe in detail your friend.. and write it down and compare how many differences you'll see. Humans are actually not very good eyewitnesses. And I request you YouTubers to conduct some experiments . Then upload them.. let's see some results. .

(Edit to add that Greeno saw this post on SM and said he is going to conduct this experiment at Purdue and Youtube it)

http://www.philly.com/philly/health...are_police_composite_sketches_.html?mobi=true

[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]Hi BoggLed![/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]I’m trying this post again. [/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]I’m not completely convinced DN is BG, but I see similarities between SOME of his mugshots and the sketch. [/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]I realize sketches and witnesses are not always accurate and there have been cases where I can’t see any resemblance at all between the sketch and the convicted perp. With DN there’s more than just the sketch. [/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]I find it interesting that he left IN after the girls were murdered. Not the immediately, but very soon after the birth of his second child. Who travels from IN to CO with a two week old infant and a four year old to be camping in a tent and living out of a car? A transfer with a high paying job, ok, I can maybe see moving with a newborn for that. But to be homeless with a newborn? Come on. There’s more to it. [/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]I realize KN said DN wanted answers about his brother’s murder case. I completely understand that if he did. But why would you travel that distance to find answers with the distraction of living out of a car with 2 young children? Why did he take KN and the kids instead of going alone and returning? He drove without a license before, so KN being his chauffeur isn’t a valid argument. My feeling is he had no intention of returning to IN and was running from his existing charges (ie the women’s bathroom incident, DA charges/custody issues, RSO). Was he running from a potential double murder charge too? We don’t know. I think it’s possible. Not probable — but possible. [/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]The charges in CO regarding threatening people with a hatchet; the comments by former landlord(s) and employer(s) about his rage, hatchet use, how they felt threatened at times and at least one of them thought he sounded like the BG audio; and his history of DA with KN show someone who is capable of violence and could possibly escalate to murder. AFAIK, DN is still a POI in the TW case. [/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]His mother and brother were murdered. His father is in prison. His uncle is the one who murdered his mother. Those things will have an effect in a person. [/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]More than anything else, CO LE contacted IN LE about the SIMILARITIES between TW and AW/LG. ISP had a good reason to go out to CO. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]One alleged connection is TW was supposedly found the same way DN’s mother was and it’s possible so were one or both girls. If there wasn’t at least one (and MSM’s use of the plural indicates there’s more than one) compelling similarity CO LE wouldn’t have notified IN LE and the ISP wouldn’t have gone to CO. [/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]If I were forced to call him guilty or innocent of the Abby and Libby murders right this second I’d tell you it would be a hung jury. I just don’t know. There’s a lot of circumstantial evidence. He has a history of rage and violence that could escalate to murder. He doesn’t have an airtight alibi. KN doesn’t recall which ultrasound he missed. LE is apparently checking those files as KN said she gave them access to any records they needed (paraphrasing from the non MSM video). At the outset of the AW/LG investigation LE was asking about the public seeing hitchhikers. It’s entirely possible he hitchhiked to Delphi. It’s also entirely possible he didn’t. No information to place him in Delphi that day. No information to place him anywhere that day at this point. [/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We just don’t have enough information to connect all the dots, nor do we have enough to erase the connections between the dots that we can see. Apparently neither does LE. [/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]The interview with Sheriff Leazenby which was posted yesterday really doesn’t condemn nor exonerate him either. The sheriff says again that DN is not a suspect, but he never says DN is not a POI. He reiterates what LE has said since September: they’re looking into DN just like they are other tips and are not ruling DN or the subjects of other tips either in or out yet. So we’re still where we started out. [/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]Part of me wants DN to be BG because that would mean BG is behind bars, won’t be going anywhere for a while and won’t be hurting anyone anytime soon, if ever. [/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]Part of me doesn’t want DN to be BG because at the beginning I thought A/L could help solve L/L in Iowa. I’m still hoping those two cases are connected and bring closure to all 4 families. I just don’t see DN being the perp in the Iowa case at all.[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Sheriff Leazenby's actual quote about DN was:

At this stage nothing has really come forward to lead us to believe he is involved but we don't have anything concrete either.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

The Greeno interview is a wash for many reasons but here are three:

He has a supposed postcard from DN stating:

...If you and your friend are willing to bond me out I will tell you anything you want to know as much as I can anyway...

DN has an agenda - get out of jail

KN has an agenda - stay out of jail

Greeno has an agenda - publicity

Entertainment purpose only IMO

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Boggled - a very good read indeed.

LE has said the sketch was done from witness (not video as someone else pondered) months after the day the witnesses saw him.

I have looked at hundreds of sketches vs real captures and they often bear no resemblence. Anyone curious go look at the sketches of the East Area Rapist (thread here on WS).

Conducting such an experiment as you ask would be very interesting to review.

I do think in the end that the sketch, video and voice will play no part in convicting the person who committed the murders.

For those of you who believe the sketch is very accurate and think Daniel Nations is the one, I implore you to read this and do some research on the numerous, countless, endless research studies conducted about eyewitnesses and their ability or non ability for memory recall.. and exactly how difficult it is. This particular article throws numbers around of about 9 to 12% accuracy rates . A sketch is not a portrait, it's not a photo. and I also implore you to do some experiments on your own. Go out about town and have one of your friends interact with strangers in public and then go back and question those people and ask them to recall and describe in detail your friend.. and write it down and compare how many differences you'll see. Humans are actually not very good eyewitnesses. And I request you YouTubers to conduct some experiments . Then upload them.. let's see some results. .

(Edit to add that Greeno saw this post on SM and said he is going to conduct this experiment at Purdue and Youtube it)

http://www.philly.com/philly/health...are_police_composite_sketches_.html?mobi=true

 

[kizzykat]

Multiple witnesses is a good thing for validity of sketches. People notice different things.
Its a piece of the puzzle lole a wanted poster in the post office.
IMO a single male on a trail that was not a nature buff, walking for his health, a hunter or teens would draw extra scrutiny.

<snipped by me>

You just reminded me of something. About the 10:35 mark in the youtube interview the subject of the hatchet comes up. KN says DN "was born in the mountains of North Carolina so he's very fond of being out in the woods. He was a vivid hunter when I first met him...."

Maybe she meant 'avid' instead of 'vivid'. My point is this is the first I've heard it confirmed that DN was/is a hunter. We know he was former military. There was much speculation early on about BG being a hunter and/or having a military background. As it turns out DN has both in his background.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Boggled - a very good read indeed.

LE has said the sketch was done from witness (not video as someone else pondered) months after the day the witnessess saw him.

I have looked at hundreds of sketches vs real captures and they often bear no resemblence. Anyone curious go look at the sketches of the East Area Rapist (thread here on WS).

Conducting such an experiment as you ask would be very interesting to review.

I do think in the end that the sketch, video and voice will play no part in convicting the person who committed the murders.

I don&#8217;t know if the video will play &#8220;no part&#8221; in the conviction, but I hear your point. In the beginning, there was a sense that with the guy being caught on video, it would only be a matter of time. Now, I think the video may just play a confirming role after something else leads them to the suspect. For example, maybe they will discover a DNA match or some other witness who has been intimidated will turn up and then they will go back and discover that yes, this suspect, has a similar build and had a blue coat or wore hats similar to the 1 pictured etc.

I still to this day wish LE would make more definitive statements about what exactly they have on video. Is there 5 seconds of footage? A minute? Does the POI on the video say anything else that they have chosen not to share?

I know police often protect details so they can rule out false confessions from others. That way they know only they and the actual killer would have certain info. But I wonder if they have additional info they could release but haven&#8217;t because the content is uncomfortable. Could they play more audio without revealing the cause of death, for example?

 

[Niner]

Hey all!

FWIW, when I saw the first photo of DN, I immediately noticed a resemble to the BG PHOTO from the bridge, taken by Libby. For some reason, the chin in the BG photo was very distinctive to me, and DN's photo was exactly what I imagined BG would look like. It amazes me that we can all look at the same photo and see different things. I guess that is what makes us all unique. To me, I also felt I was looking at a picture of someone with a "leg deformity" or limp based on the positioning of the leg in the photo from the bridge, and the fact that DN has a limp reinforces my feeling that the "ducks are lining up". I feel that LE is very close to a resolution, and pray that today is the day!

I agree with you - I believe DN is BG; and you mentioned the "leg deformity" that someone mentioned when the pix was released, and then finding out DN has a limp. :crossfingers: that Abby & Libby get JUSTICE soon!!

snipped by me....
What would have been more helpful is if a specific piece of clothing or a hat or something in the photo was proven to be owned by a certain person. And we dont have that as of yet.

But I believe there WAS a picture posted of a blue jacket that was close to what BG was wearing. The picture was from DN's room. Don't recall how far back that was.... sorry - otherwise I would post it. Maybe someone saved it and will re-post?!

Also, maybe DN diguised his voice when he said "Down the hill" - making it a little more "deeper" than his usual voice. Just a thought! :thinking:

snipped...
Its all day 8:30am, 11am and 1:30pm --

Actually it's not all day -
11/1 @ 8:30am for El Paso County charges: attempted trespassing, attempted assaumlt, criminal mischief & failing to register as a sex offender

11/2 @ 8:30am for Teller County charges: being a felon having weapons illegally, found in possession of a hatche & .22 caliber rifle.

11/6 @ 11am for Teller County
and
11/29 @11am for El Paso County

long post - more to read!

 

[Shiressleuth]

<snipped by me>

You just reminded me of something. About the 10:35 mark in the youtube interview the subject of the hatchet comes up. KN says DN "was born in the mountains of North Carolina so he's very fond of being out in the woods. He was a vivid hunter when I first met him...."

Maybe she meant 'avid' instead of 'vivid'. My point is this is the first I've heard it confirmed that DN was/is a hunter. We know he was former military. There was much speculation early on about BG being a hunter and/or having a military background. As it turns out DN has both in his background.

That's a good point kizzy. Loves the woods, ex marine, anger issues, drug user, DV, hurts animals, separated from wife and children, homeless, reddish brown hair, resemblance to video and sketch, no alibi, fits height and weight, one leg shorter, threatening behaviour. All are traits LE is looking for in POI's.

 

[cluciano63]

I wonder if a jury would even hear of his criminal background as often, they do not. As it standa, it does not appear that LE has much to bring to trial on this guy.

 

[newredtabby]

The Greeno interview is a wash for many reasons but here are three:

He has a supposed postcard from DN stating:

...If you and your friend are willing to bond me out I will tell you anything you want to know as much as I can anyway...

DN has an agenda - get out of jail

KN has an agenda - stay out of jail

Greeno has an agenda - publicity

Entertainment purpose only IMO

Greeno and KN(maybe???) also have $200,000+ incentive!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[her]

Sheriff Leazenby's actual quote about DN was:

At this stage nothing has really come forward to lead us to believe he is involved but we don't have anything concrete either.

Thank You for bringing this up!

The Greeno interview is a wash for many reasons but here are three:

He has a supposed postcard from DN stating:

...If you and your friend are willing to bond me out I will tell you anything you want to know as much as I can anyway...

DN has an agenda - get out of jail

KN has an agenda - stay out of jail

Greeno has an agenda - publicity

Entertainment purpose only IMO

Shady as can be.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Greeno and KN(maybe???) also have $200,000+ incentive!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That wouldn't be the case because he is already in custody and was brought to the attention of ISP due to tips in the first place IMO.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

Greeno and KN(maybe???) also have $200,000+ incentive!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I interpreted it as DN was asking the 2 interviewers (Greeno and Stroup[?]) to bail him out and he would tell them everything. Dangling an exclusive tell all carrot for them to post his bond and get the YouTube &#8220;glory&#8221; for attaining a scoop MSM doesn&#8217;t have. There&#8217;s also the reward money as a possible enticement.

JMO... If DN is bonded he&#8217;s going to take off without giving up any information on Abby and Libby, provided he even knows anything at all. If he ends up not being involved, he has nothing to tell anyway. Whoever posts bond better have money to kiss goodbye. I wouldn&#8217;t trust him not to flee.

If these two interviewers have any intelligence or integrity they&#8217;ll pass up the carrot.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Would the witnesses have been shown mugshots including one of DN, in order to pick him out and identify him physically? If not, then all this publicity could be detrimental to the case. I hope that LE got those witnesses to do that before they announced any possible connection between the cases. MOO.

 

[newredtabby]

That wouldn't be the case because he is already in custody and was brought to the attention of ISP due to tips in the first place IMO.

The $232,000 reward is for tips leading to the arrest and conviction of the Delphi murderer. DN is not in custody for anything related to Delphi, so it is definitely "the case" that the reward money is still relevant.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Shiressleuth]

I interpreted it as DN was asking the 2 interviewers (Greeno and Stroup[?]) to bail him out and he would tell them everything. Dangling an exclusive tell all carrot for them to post his bond and get the YouTube “glory” for attaining a scoop MSM doesn’t have. There’s also the reward money as a possible enticement.

JMO... If DN is bonded he’s going to take off without giving up any information on Abby and Libby, provided he even knows anything at all. If he ends up not being involved, he has nothing to tell anyway. Whoever posts bond better have money to kiss goodbye. I wouldn’t trust him not to flee.

If these two interviewers have any intelligence or integrity they’ll pass up the carrot.

Well I think his lawyers are asking for a bail reduction next week so Stroup may look on it as a good investment. If DN's bail gets reduced to say 15k would that mean 10% cash and asset security for remainder? Maybe Stroup already has a subordinate agreement with a MSM player already set-up? A scoop for Stroup? MOO.

 

[Steleheart]

That's why we are lucky to also have a video and voice of the subject in addition. We don't just have to rely on the sketch.

Good point.It's easy for us to forget that the video is more than 2 frames showing less than a second of movement. We recently (?) found out that LE played more of the audio of the girls talking about the man behind them for the families so it's likely that audio also shows more of BG moving/ following them. If so LE did not want to include that video because it might include images of the victims as well and BG is just in the background.
Not sure if I am saying this right ::coffeews:...
While we are tempted to rely on the sketch, LE arrived at the sketch from witness(es) AND the video.

JMO

 

[Shiressleuth]

The $232,000 reward is for tips leading to the arrest and conviction of the Delphi murderer. DN is not in custody for anything related to Delphi, so it is definitely "the case" that the reward money is still relevant.


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I disagree WADR. iMO if an arrest and conviction follows from the original tip, a reward would be forthcoming. If further tips follow leading to charges and/or conviction the reward may have to be split but ATM there seems nothing concrete, as stated by LE. Also, it begs the question, if he confessed, could he or his wife get some of the reward? Anyone know?

 

[deedee21]

I had never heard about the “K” aspect until today. I did go try to find more info, but could find nothing, other than talk on another message board from several months ago.

Since the video is allowed here, can that be discussed as well? I’ll flag my own post.

Its said the K was visible on her chest during the wake. I find that hard to believe.
And remember the story about the girls having scraves around their necks? Do to injuries?
Do we believe necks are covered and chest are not?
Rumors that grew legs by the facebook crowd.

 

[TTF14]

Its said the K was visible on her chest during the wake. I find that hard to believe.

Oh brother! Now that's definitely one of the more ridiculous rumors I have heard!