IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #75

[newredtabby]

Really, really sad...this thread is losing momentum.
I guess we can't help to solve these murders w/out an update from LE.
Thanks to all that are dedicated to Abby and Libby.

How do you think we could help solve these murders, anyway?


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[Shiressleuth]

I seem to remember that a subpoena was done for phone records round the time that DN was arrested in Co. Does anyone else remember that? If they do, is there a link? If noone else remembers then please dismiss as MOO.

 

[mtnlites]

How do you think we could help solve these murders, anyway?


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I honestly don't think the general public, like us, could solve the murders. We simply don't have enough information and facts about the crime. It is difficult to put a psychological profile together because we don't know how the bodies were found, what type weapon was used, or even basic things like who found their bodies (other than conjecture and social media rumors). Speculation against DN being BG is based upon information that we don't have. For instance, DN is known for wielding his hatchet-yet we have no idea if a hatchet was involved. DN has a gun-but we have no idea if a gun was involved. DN has a history of sexual offences-but we have no idea if there was a sexual component to this crime.

I don't think LE ever thought that we, as the general public, could help solve this. I don't think they wanted us to try (their talks about not altering the picture, not doing side-by-side comparisons, etc.) I think the only thing they wanted from the public was for someone who had actual personal information about the perp to come forward and share what they know.

While I have participated in many discussions on crimes that I think CAN be solved (or at least assisted) by the general public like us, I don't think this is one of them. I've been following this case on here not because I thought I could help but because of my personal ties to Delphi. I want to keep up with the updates and it's interesting to hear other people's opinions about what's going on.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I seem to remember that a subpoena was done for phone records round the time that DN was arrested in Co. Does anyone else remember that? If they do, is there a link? If noone else remembers then please dismiss as MOO.

Someone posted a screen cap of it, IIRC; but I don't have the link. It did not say it was for phone records but all the other Subpoena Duces Tecoms filed by Ives appear to be cell phone related.

I did make notes, though. I bolded the date of the girl's death and the request to seal. The case is completely gone as far as I can tell.

SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM
Case Number 08C01-1710-MC-000198
CourtCarroll Circuit Court
TypeMC - Miscellaneous Criminal
Filed10/05/2017
Status10/05/2017*,*Pending**(active)*

Charges
0102/13/2017 No Charge Applicable/M
Chronological Case Summary
10/05/2017
Case Opened as a New Filing
10/05/2017
Request for Subpoena Duces Tecum Filed
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
10/05/2017


Motion Filed
Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
10/05/2017
10/05/2017
Subpoena/Summons Issued
Judicial Officer:
Diener, Benjamin A.
File Stamp:
10/05/2017
https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase...HVXdNVEl3TnpFNU1EQXhPalEzTXpJMk5qZ3lObVk9In19

 

[JazzTune]

Its my opinion that maybe the reason they have said that his eyes are not blue is because the DNA profile ruled them out.

Hi, and welcome to WS! I notice this is your first post. Glad to have you and hope to read more from you.

Unfortunately, you've posted at a time when the thread seems to be running out of gas, because of no new official developments for so long.

I have read Abby and Libby's thread from the beginning, and am so impressed with the knowledge and compassion of others throughout all the countless ones since. Even when there's disagreement, we realize we're all here for the girls. I've been proud to be a part of this group.

Every known aspect and controversy of this case has been dissected. Plus some! However, I myself, have had no new insights for ages, so I'm just hanging on to the coat tails of everyone else.

I keep coming here because it breaks my heart to see Abby and Libby have no justice.

Hope you stick around and while you're at it, check out some of the other cases too. Warning though - some of them will tear your heart out too, just like this one.

The blessing though is you will soon come to know many intelligent and compassionate people who you will be proud to call your friends...



:welcome:



JMO

 

[Shiressleuth]

Someone posted a screen cap of it, IIRC; but I don't have the link. It did not say it was for phone records but all the other Subpoena Duces Tecoms filed by Ives appear to be cell phone related.

I did make notes, though. I bolded the date of the girl's death and the request to seal. The case is completely gone as far as I can tell.

SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM
Case Number 08C01-1710-MC-000198
CourtCarroll Circuit Court
TypeMC - Miscellaneous Criminal
Filed10/05/2017
Status10/05/2017*,*Pending**(active)*

Charges
0102/13/2017 No Charge Applicable/M
Chronological Case Summary
10/05/2017
Case Opened as a New Filing
10/05/2017
Request for Subpoena Duces Tecum Filed
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
10/05/2017


Motion Filed
Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
10/05/2017
10/05/2017
Subpoena/Summons Issued
Judicial Officer:
Diener, Benjamin A.
File Stamp:
10/05/2017
https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase...HVXdNVEl3TnpFNU1EQXhPalEzTXpJMk5qZ3lObVk9In19

TY so much . So what was this if not phone records, as we thought? And if it has gone, is that because they have whatever it was that they subpoena'd and sealed?

 

[Shiressleuth]

How do you think we could help solve these murders, anyway?


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Maybe by a tip phoned in by someone in another state, city or town, familiar with this case via websleuths that just sees or reads something just a little off? Or even just a call to police after seeing something suspicious and that random police call catches a criminal or even prevents a crime. It's a licence to be nosey really. :smile:

 

[TheVisual]

I know that LE wants this solved as much as we do. BUT maybe they want to slow down their workload( tips) over the holidays so that they might cherish some time with their families. It has to be hard on them considering what they are working with. I come here everyday first thing in the morning and check to see if there is any progress or release of info in this case. I check every hour during the day. As much as we want this solved I guess we should give them a break.

 

[InMyOpinion999]

I seem to remember that a subpoena was done for phone records round the time that DN was arrested in Co. Does anyone else remember that? If they do, is there a link? If noone else remembers then please dismiss as MOO.

I remember. If I am not mistaken, I believe it was a sealed subpoena that listed the possible reasons for the subpoena as any one of the following...DNA, or phone records, or a list of other things I can't recall... and I personally believed at that time it was for phone records, which made sense. I don't have the link.
BTW I saw on an investigative show not related to this case recently where LE said that cell phone subpoenas can take months, and other cell phone data takes even longer.

 

[InMyOpinion999]

Someone posted a screen cap of it, IIRC; but I don't have the link. It did not say it was for phone records but all the other Subpoena Duces Tecoms filed by Ives appear to be cell phone related.

I did make notes, though. I bolded the date of the girl's death and the request to seal. The case is completely gone as far as I can tell.

SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM
Case Number 08C01-1710-MC-000198
CourtCarroll Circuit Court
TypeMC - Miscellaneous Criminal
Filed10/05/2017
Status10/05/2017*,*Pending**(active)*

Charges
0102/13/2017 No Charge Applicable/M
Chronological Case Summary
10/05/2017
Case Opened as a New Filing
10/05/2017
Request for Subpoena Duces Tecum Filed
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
10/05/2017


Motion Filed
Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed.
Filed By:
State of Indiana
File Stamp:
10/05/2017
10/05/2017
Subpoena/Summons Issued
Judicial Officer:
Diener, Benjamin A.
File Stamp:
10/05/2017
https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase...HVXdNVEl3TnpFNU1EQXhPalEzTXpJMk5qZ3lObVk9In19

Thanks! Couldn't find it.

 

[foxbluff]

I seem to remember that a subpoena was done for phone records round the time that DN was arrested in Co. Does anyone else remember that? If they do, is there a link? If noone else remembers then please dismiss as MOO.

I remember seeing it here...it came and went in a flash IIRC. I made a notation to myself: blic.courts.in.gov/ 10/20/2017 Petition Filed - Petition for Order Requiring Apple Inc to Cooperate in the Recovery of Decedent's Data. filed by P,BM

 

[kizzykat]

That's on MyCase.IN.gov
Petition was filed by Libby's Estate.

I remember seeing it here...it came and went in a flash IIRC. I made a notation to myself: blic.courts.in.gov/ 10/20/2017 Petition Filed - Petition for Order Requiring Apple Inc to Cooperate in the Recovery of Decedent's Data. filed by P,BM

 

[Shiressleuth]

That's on MyCase.IN.gov
Petition was filed by Libby's Estate.

Ok ignore my post then. Sorry, I thought that was a different request and not a sealed subpoena

 

[Shiressleuth]

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...swers-soon-delphi-double-homicides/713451001/

I am posting a link from when DN first became a named POI as it has a couple of items of note in the article. It states that everyone LE have spoken to has given a cheek swab . And it says that the FBI are checking DN first and that local LE will go out to Co if anything is suspicious. Well, as we know local LE did go out, so there was something suspicious IMO.
My point is if all persons are being
swabbed, that is a lot of testing and maybe DN's is still way down the line and that is why he still has not been included or excluded yet, along with the others.

 

[foxbluff]

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...swers-soon-delphi-double-homicides/713451001/

I am posting a link from when DN first became a named POI as it has a couple of items of note in the article. It states that everyone LE have spoken to has given a cheek swab . And it says that the FBI are checking DN first and that local LE will go out to Co if anything is suspicious. Well, as we know local LE did go out, so there was something suspicious IMO.
My point is if all persons are being
swabbed, that is a lot of testing and maybe DN's is still way down the line and that is why he still has not been included or excluded yet, along with the others.

BBM - I understand what you're saying. However, at that point in time, wouldn't Indy LE have put DN's swab at the front of the line?

 

[Daey34]

I feel like they may have. Based upon the wording of "we cannot include or exclude DN," I think the test was inconclusive because the DNA at the scene was incomplete or mixed. Even if you google "DNA cannot include or exclude suspect," you are only presented with articles like the one below OR articles specifically about DN.

https://ojp.gov/ovc/publications/bulletins/dna_4_2001/dna8_4_01.html

BBM - I understand what you're saying. However, at that point in time, wouldn't Indy LE have put DN's swab at the front of the line?

 

[Ember123]

As posted recently upthread, DN in court TMRO 12/7/17 Teller County Colorado 11am Mountain Time (or did I dream that) ...right?

So Take Heart!

MORE INFO COMING SOON to help give color to some of the many gray areas currently surrounding our yea or nay leanings regarding DN.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

Was away for a week, then took 3 to catch up.

@Shire: if your poll is still going on, put me down for not homeless, possibly DN.

BCA and IceIce9 posted upstream about homeless encounters they had. I wanted to add one.
Years ago, I ran into a friend of a friend I hadn’t seen for a while and in the course of conversation he mentioned he was going through a divorce and had been living out of his car for a couple months. If he hadn’t said it I wouldn’t have known. He was clean, shaved, clothes were clean and unwrinkled, no signs of the typical homeless stereotype.
Just expanding on how someone can be homeless - or temporarily homeless like DN was - and not look like they are.

@mtnlites: you were talking about the possibility of BG being deceased. That thought has been in my head since there was a body found In Indiana not long (month or so?) after Abby and Libby. It was talked about in the earlier threads, not sure if it was a murder or suicide, but eventually determined to have nothing to do with Abby and Libby.
I’ve always wondered if BG might commit suicide. Maybe out of guilt or remorse. Maybe as the only way to stop himself from hurting anyone else.
No proof of this having happened, but a possibility why he hasn’t been arrested yet.

JMO as always.

Nice to be back.

 

[kizzykat]

I feel like they may have. Based upon the wording of "we cannot include or exclude DN," I think the test was inconclusive because the DNA at the scene was incomplete or mixed. Even if you google "DNA cannot include or exclude suspect," you are only presented with articles like the one below OR articles specifically about DN.

https://ojp.gov/ovc/publications/bulletins/dna_4_2001/dna8_4_01.html

BBM.
This is the direction I'm leaning, it's the only thing that makes sense to me right now. Just my .02.
Great article, thanks for linking it!

 

[Shiressleuth]

BBM.
This is the direction I'm leaning, it's the only thing that makes sense to me right now. Just my .02.
Great article, thanks for linking it!

Then why are they taking cheek swabs from everyone they speak to?