IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #8

[DavidC]

Yeah, I thought FBI usually don't get involved in murder cases unless local authorities ask for help, or if a federal crime as been committed.

I think those lines are becoming more and more blurred these days.

 

[BFan60]

A 911 call would have prompted a police response even if (especially if) the call is disconnected.

 

[jillycat]

Thoughts if anyone would like to discuss-

First off, these girls look their age. 13 or 14, not young girls easily mistaken to be 3 or 4 years older. The photos of them online are of girls that also appear comfortable acting their age. I feel this provides a little insight into the idea that the perp, if he sought them out, was seeking out children, not women. Even if he didn't seek them out, they weren't the only girls in the park that day. He chose them, even though it may have been riskier to do so because there were two of them together. Based on this, I would be shocked if he hasn't, at least, committed a crime against a child before.

I also feel like committing a crime against 2 girls as opposed to 1 in an environment he couldn't totally control speaks to the idea that he may be criminally experienced and could have done something like this before. This may be why LE has made suggestions to public asking about people seen from 65/Lafayette up the Hoosier Heartland to Logansport. I think they may have strong reason to believe that there is just a very low likelihood that he could have been in the area for any considerable length of time without anything else serious like this happening.

In the news helicopter video, there were searchers wading the creek in-line near the scene and well below the bridge. I am wondering if it was readily apparent that things were missing from the scene where they were found that they felt could drift downstream. A cell phone or a knife/gun, wouldn't likely travel too far, but then again, they could have been checking near the scene and again below the bridge to rule out him returning to the bridge and throwing something off. Of course, they could have just been being very thorough in collecting everything possible.

As to whether or not it was an arranged/planned meeting or just a chance encounter with a perp in the park that day waiting for the right opportunity, I believe they have reason to believe he came prepared to commit a crime. I think he had items with him to control them and do whatever he did. I've felt strongly that he had to have some significant means of controlling TWO of them over such an area with many possible avenues for things to go wrong for him. He also didn't leave the overall area with them, which I'd bet is uncommon when a perp takes control of 2 or more victims. I figure that cases of multiple victims typically involve a quick act of subduing victims and relocating them as quickly as possible to an environment that can be controlled. The fact that he could never have total control of the environment out there either speaks to his confidence or either low criminal sophistication. I don't think it is the latter, and like I mentioned above, it is hard for me to see him having that without some sort of prior experience. Just a huge leap to go from nothing to taking two girls hostage in an open area visited by the public in broad daylight. It is this fact that makes me wonder if this is why they are having a hard time ruling out an additional perp.

Anyone have thoughts on these things?

This is aligned with how I see this case. If he is what you and I both think he is - confident and skilled - I don't believe that he needed a scheduled meeting or a catfishing ruse to find a victim. That area would have potential victims. I think he was very comfortable and the timeline suggests he was fully prepared to commit a crime. This is what I meant earlier when I said I don't think it's either a chance/random encounter, or, a planned and plotted meeting. I really believe he's a hunter and any day the odds and circumstances are good, is as good a day as any.

 

[monkeypants]

So he's within 2 hours of Delphi and he hitchhikes from his house to Delphi? Because didn't the investigators kinda stress if any one saw him maybe on the main road? Wouldn't that imply he was walking or trying to hitch a ride?

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LE has zero idea if he hitch hiked...they were just trying to jog memories.

 

[matou]

I don't know why you would do that. Town of Delphi is population 3,000. Don't you think someone would have fingered him by now?

I'll go with the 38-year law enforcement officer on this one.

Not everyone will know everyone. I'm familiar with smaller towns than this.

 

[Bob Saccamano]

I don't understand why they wouldn't have called 911 if they had at least one working phone?


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I guess she was on the bridge videoing and taking photos as he initially approached and may have felt uneasy and kept recording or even left a video recording inadvertently out of nervousness. I figure by the time they realized the scope of the danger they were in, it wasn't possible. I can't believe she managed to get what she did. Incredible, really.

 

[thenitsaid]

Yeah, I thought FBI usually don't get involved in murder cases unless local authorities ask for help, or if a federal crime as been committed.

They will assist with cases that deal with childlren, national serial killers and/or if they believe the use of cyber internet was involved. The local police stations don't have the necessities and resources for those situations.

 

[TravelingBug]

Why are people getting worked up about how we are discussing his accent?? That's basically what sleuthers do and also people actually dedicate professions to researching dialects. It's incredibly important.

Also since I'm only today jumping in here today, is it possible a family friend or older male relative knew where they would be? I'm leaning towards social media contact they hoped to meet, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was someone they actually knew in real life.

Then I'd think if Liberty were going to the effort of trying to apparently leave clues as to what happened, that she'd probably have tried to find a way to say the name of whomever was involved, no?

And if it were someone known to them / family friend or whatever, surely he'd have been ID'd long before now, wouldn't he?

 

[Tragic]

I don't understand why they wouldn't have called 911 if they had at least one working phone?


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Complete lack of coverage and only being 13-14 years old with lack of knowledge of how it does work with no coverage? How many parents teach that when giving a cell phone to their children? Close to none bc why would this scenario be likely in even their worst possible nightmare?

 

[DavidC]

Funny, I was just posting an FBI question myself. Is it due to local authorities not having the resources?

This is not the first case I have questioned FBI participation in. The thing is....the cases are usually so bad that........who is gonna complain whether they have jurisdiction or not to participate?

 

[WannaBDetective]

I agree with you. And to me it seems he would have to be a local to be at this particular location. They've probably gotten a ton of tips but they need more evidence. That said, there has got to be a ton of his DNA at the scene, right? Head scratch.

Makes you believe that he didn't get a hit on CODIS, or they'd know who it was. Agree, it's looking like someone who knew the area, at least somewhat. This might just be a normal schmo who just went off the rails and was opportunist in the layout and seclusion of this particular area.

 

[Celtsleuth]

I don't think he would stay in the area...and in the picture of Abby walking across the bridge, in the lower left, it looks to me like an older grey truck or SUV...maybe it's something, maybe nothing... but it is close to the bridge.

 

[Eastonwatson]

I think they chose the soundbyte because it was clear what he was saying. Not just a tone of a voice, but a voice saying specific words. I also think they chose this because it is just him and it doesn't give away much. I hate thinking about it, but I'm betting they used what they could play for the public as in without the girls' voices on it to distract from his.

Thanks. I'm still trying to see it in a positive angle?? I know most say the norm is to withhold info to not compromise the investigation.

Do they really go wave on wave here trickling out bits of info?

Throw the touchdown while everyone is at the stadium. Don't wait for them to go home... Nobody remembers it then.Right now the whole world is tuning in trying to help. And some info is better than none I agree but give the world every opportunity to do so. Withholding videos or other audio is protecting their investigation but not giving every opportunity possible.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

I don't understand why they wouldn't have called 911 if they had at least one working phone?


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Maybe because the situation went from OK to weird to scary to terrifying very quickly, and she didn't have time to.

 

[JeannaT]

I don't understand why they wouldn't have called 911 if they had at least one working phone?


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I know. Really. I hate to KEEP talking about Carlie Brucia, but really. Girls are socialized to comply with adults. It seems these girls were just in complying mode.

 

[jmcgladr]

Not very good cell reception in the woods plus fear probably set in. we all can have our game plans before a situation but when faced with it, our plans change. The girls must have been in total fear, who could blame them.I would be scared $hitless too.

I'm sure they were scared - but one of them had the presence of mind to hit "record" when the guy was talking to them, according to the Nancy Grace post on this incident. I hope kids are still having it drilled into them to always call 911 if they feel at all scared or in danger!


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[mpnola]

Wow. I have been here since moment one and then had some serious work to catch up on and missed the past day. What a horrible time to be missing!

I watched the presser and it definitely seems that the State Police and FBI are in control of this thing. I am very glad. I think there will be fewer "warrant" mistakes with more experience at the wheel (I'm not saying there was a past mistake, I am just saying that catching the guy is only half the battle. Then, it needs to stick).

Well, so sweet girl was the one that captured the murdering monster! I am so proud of her. This case has not been solved and the guy has not been identified yet. Can you imagine how difficult it would have been if she didnt get them that solid evidence? I cant imagine how scared they were. I am glad they at least had best friend love somewhere nearby, so they didnt feel completely alone. This is the stuff nightmares are made of.

And this dude is sooooo dangerous! He is dangerous to ever single person he passes. I feel confident that he has done this before. I am strongly suspecting that Lyric and Elizabeth also met him. This is one brazen monster! Other people were in the park. One person saw a man by himself, so he likely saw them, too. He knew that these girls would be looked for quickly. They are teens, after all! And still he managed to kill them both and get out of there without a hitch.

Good job, Liberty and Abby! Good job, babies. Y'all might have been the girls to help save the next girl. You are among a strong group of girls who sadly wear that same badge. Wear it well and guide those who are searching. You both have changed this world and you will never be forgotten.

Sidenote- I had a dream that they caught the guy and he was an ex-Marine. Not a retired Marine, but one that had served for a few years when he was young. I am a huge Marine advocate, so I really hope my dream is wrong. But, I hope even more they catch him.

 

[DaisyChains]

Oh but the police DO have to hold back information to protect the investigation as well ensure they have all of the evidence they need (apart from DNA) to implicate him. They want this to be an open and shut case if he is apprehended. There is no room for sloppiness or irresponsibility as far as leaking info is concerned. LE are working their best. Remember that FBI is involved now and the PD is likely also taking pointers from them. Let's give them a break. The info simply is not for the public yet. I do believe if you don't have probable cause a person can deny to submit their DNA. They might be trying to ensure that they have that probable cause to collect DNA/items by showing evidence to a judge in order to obtain a warrant on the specific POI. The evidence for that warrant is likely in the info they won't release publicly. They need a third party of someone who knows the perp (or the perp himself!) to come forward with info that is not public knowledge so that LE can then move forward themselves LEGALLY.

OK. So by the time the crime was occurring, the phone was in her pocket? She got video of the man on the bridge, but later it was only audio. That makes sense.

If they do have copious DNA, it makes no sense whatsoever (to me) to be so coy with their audio and video evidence being released to the public. They're not trying to do this double blind thing, where they hold evidence back from the public. DNA is DNA. They need to find this guy, take his DNA, it matches or it doesn't case closed. I do understand not wanting to release audio or video that would be horrible to hear and watch, but surely they have lots that isn't distressing to hear that would be helpful in identifying this guy.

It's not like releasing all the they know will damage the case because the "real killer" wouldn't know these specific things like in other cases. DNA would match or not.

 

[Oregonmama]

Then I'd think if Liberty were going to the effort of trying to apparently leave clues as to what happened, that she'd probably have tried to find a way to say the name of whomever was involved, no?

And if it were someone known to them / family friend or whatever, surely he'd have been ID'd long before now, wouldn't he?

JMO, but LE probably has more clues that Libby had on her phone but they don't give up everything to the public while investigating.These girls were placed in a total fear mode and I'm still surprised Libby had the adrenaline to do what she did. That was so brave of her to do under the circumstances

 

[DeDee]

I think the rapid change from "we have a smart community" to "there's a crazed lunatic out there that's going to do this again" is interesting.

It makes me wonder what was said on the recording. Maybe mentioning a prior crime in an effort to scare the girls into complying? Maybe something found at the scene that hints at another unsolved crime? DNA that matches a rape kit, but not a murder?

Or was it just that originally they were optimistic they would have the guy in a few days and now that they don't, they are forced to be a bit more realistic?

Or were they pleading to those that may be second guessing if their husband/brother/cousin could have been the one that did this? Basically, guilting them into turning in a possible suspect.

I really want to watch the presser again, but I'm already an emotional wreck. It's all over my FB now and I just keep hearing that voice.

:grouphug: Oh, Hoosier. I am so sorry. We are one. What happens to one of us, happens to all.

This BG is sly. He knows the backwoods. He may have worked at the meat processing plant or somewhere for a short while in Delphi but I fear he is gone, gone. He is a traveling man that's been living in those woods and bathing in the creek. He is a deadbeat and a bum who mooches from others. No wife. Few relationships. Attacks young girls. He is a serial killer. BG is now MOST WANTED by the FBI. They excel at tracking down killers.

:rose: :rose: