IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #83

[cluciano63]

Yea, I just checked and they have his height between 5ft 6 in and 5 ft 10 in.. I They should be able to use the photography and use the distance of origin and at least come with in 2 in of accuracy. Perhaps they asked witnesses asmwell and each one say a different height.

Age is even more of a guess, based of voice and attire id say 40 to 60.

But 5’6 is on the short side, where as 5’10 is fairly tall, so not really a help at all. Most men probably fall in there somewhere. Or at least one would be a short man, the other not.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Do we know if those warrants were related to the murders? Are the ones you are talking about still public record?

I could never find anything related to the murders except for the subpoena connected to DN (which disappeared from public view very quickly) and the request to seal the autopsy.

There is the sealing of the autopsy records. There is also another court filing not by LE but by the Estate of Liberty German pursuing Apple to get the contents of her iCloud data.

 

[kidetect22]

This quote right here solidifies, to me, the supposed "twist" that was referenced in the beginning. The fact that they have an actual photograph of the perp, from the victim no less, is something that's not often seen. The "twist" has been speculated on ad nauseam and I honestly believe that there's nothing more to it than what he is saying here. (I know we weren't talking about that right now, but this it reminded me of previous conversations on here.)

I agree that the “twist” was always the fact that Libby had videoed BG, recorded his voice, and that in itself, is unbelievable to LE! Unbelievable to all of us really because I thought for sure this would be a done, closed and shut case with BG off the streets in no time with what Libby had left for LE!!!

 

[kidetect22]

Right.

Why ask FBI and GBI to look at the case with new eyes if they knew who BG was?

Doesn't make sense to me.

I def don’t think in the beginning they had any inkling ... now, after a year I believe they are onto something. My one reason behind this thinking is because the family tends to STILL, have so much faith in LE when it pertains to this case. I feel LE is keeping them in the loop and telling them they just need time. But I could be completely wrong too. I don’t truly believe they ever thought DN was th guy, just were crossing t’s and dotting i’s just like they did to RL! IMO.

 

[heartgoesout]

If BG pushed Abby off the bridge, that could be why Libby agreed to go down the hill and why she didn't run when she could have. She was not going to leave Abby down there.
It's possible BG then carried an injured Abby while threatening Libby with a weapon, and how he was able to control both girls.
Just a thought that makes some sense to me.

 

[Arubagirl7]

A lot of posters believe LE have DNA due to POI's being excluded.
If they have DNA, why don't they do a Parabon image from it? They can be incredibly accurate.

Perhaps the sketch of BG is the result of witnesses AND DNA phenotyping. Maybe that is why they are calling it a composite.

When I look at the still photo of BG nothing really stands out as far as his gait. But I think his hand was in his pocket, could he have been hiding a hand deformity or another identifying feature? It seems that he does not need to use his hands/arms for balance which could indicate expertise in walking in high places. Whereas in the snapchat photo of Abby, her hands were in her jacket pocket but it appeared that she was using her arms for balance.

 

[gregjrichards]

I def don’t think in the beginning they had any inkling ... now, after a year I believe they are onto something. My one reason behind this thinking is because the family tends to STILL, have so much faith in LE when it pertains to this case. I feel LE is keeping them in the loop and telling them they just need time. But I could be completely wrong too. I don’t truly believe they ever thought DN was th guy, just were crossing t’s and dotting i’s just like they did to RL! IMO.

I don't think the girl's families would be sending posters out around the United States, handing out flyers at public events and going on tv shows like Dr. Phil and Megyn Kelly begging for tips if this was the case. Why would they waste their energy and resources appealing for information and tips if law enforcement told them we know who BG is and they were planning to arrest him soon? It doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[gregjrichards]

If BG pushed Abby off the bridge, that could be why Libby agreed to go down the hill and why she didn't run when she could have. She was not going to leave Abby down there.
It's possible BG then carried an injured Abby while threatening Libby with a weapon, and how he was able to control both girls.
Just a thought that makes some sense to me.

It seems a big risk to me to push Abbey off the bridge surely there would be a massive scream to draw attention to the location. I think he threatened the girls with a weapon likely a gun to gain control and then he tied their mouths shut so they could not scream. Then he attacked and killed them with another weapon not a gun.

 

[No it's not]

I don't think the girl's families would be sending posters out around the United States, handing out flyers at public events and going on tv shows like Dr. Phil and Megyn Kelly begging for tips if this was the case. Why would they waste their energy and resources appealing for information and tips if law enforcement told them we know who BG is and they were planning to arrest him soon? It doesn't make any sense to me.

One other possibility is, that LE is still issuing subpoenas based on tips they have received from the general public. Pending on the information they are trying to acquire, it may take a search warrant rather than a subpoena, which would require to have probable cause. That may be a challenge in itself. So, they may have some good leads, but may not actually know, who they are dealing with.

An example: X is posting a youtube video wandering around the high bridge area prior to the murder. He is wearing some particular shoes in this video. After the murder, he goes ahead and edits his video by cutting out the part(s) showing his shoes, as they look just like the shoes BG was wearing. This has been noticed by Y, an online user. That person Y sends in a tip. Now LE has to figure out X's identity, if they decide it is worth following up on it. But can they get the Youtube poster's ID with a subpoena (no probable cause needed) or do they have to have a search warrant ( probable cause needed)? This would be an example of having a possible lead, but not necessarily being able to obtain the info - yet.

ALL IMO

-Nin

 

[heartgoesout]

It seems a big risk to me to push Abbey off the bridge surely there would be a massive scream to draw attention to the location. I think he threatened the girls with a weapon likely a gun to gain control and then he tied their mouths shut so they could not scream. Then he attacked and killed them with another weapon not a gun.

Just as risky, no?
Tied their mouths shut when? Explaining a fall and carrying her for help, sure, if he came across another adult. And again that's if someone actually questioned him. Tying their mouths shut, can't explain so much if someone happened to come across them.
I'm not convinced about a push off the bridge but it does makes some sense to me why one didn't run when they could. Just thinking out loud : )

 

[No it's not]

Perhaps the sketch of BG is the result of witnesses AND DNA phenotyping. Maybe that is why they are calling it a composite.

When I look at the still photo of BG nothing really stands out as far as his gait. But I think his hand was in his pocket, could he have been hiding a hand deformity or another identifying feature? It seems that he does not need to use his hands/arms for balance which could indicate expertise in walking in high places. Whereas in the snapchat photo of Abby, her hands were in her jacket pocket but it appeared that she was using her arms for balance.

They call it a composite (drawing), because a composite artist tries to render a drawing based on the recollection of witnesses. The recollection consists of individual parts. All together the parts compose a visual record.

I wish they were or are able to eventually use DNA Phenotyping!

ALL IMO

-Nin

 

[gregjrichards]

Just as risky, no?
Tied their mouths shut when? Explaining a fall and carrying her for help, sure, if he came across another adult. And again that's if someone actually questioned him. Tying their mouths shut, can't explain so much if someone happened to come across them.
I'm not convinced about a push off the bridge but it does makes some sense to me why one didn't run when they could. Just thinking out loud : )

I think the girls were silenced after being told to go "down the hill". How does him saying "down the hill" fit with your theory Abbey was pushed off the bridge?

We have different theories entirely about the case but I value your opinions about what you think happened. All discussion and debate from everyone is good.

 

[first_light]

Thanks for your input. Your theory makes sense. That’s a good point about not expecting to find the girls in the area if abducted/ foul play. Is there any other info you could share with us as to how the search unfolded. Was it organized, how the groups were divided up etc. How were you and the others informed that the girls had been located? TIA

I’d never participated in a search like that prior, but it seemed like LE was doing everything logical. They had maps for everyone of the trail system, and groups were sent out with a fireman for direction. The larger area was divided up on a big map at search headquarters and locations were being crossed off the map as they were called in as searched. My group was searching I’d guess a mile upstream of where the girls were found. It seemed like search professionals were at the bridge area mainly from what I was told when I registered.

As far as being informed they’d been found, we had cleared a property and were standing by the road to go to the next. A black SUV sped past going very fast. I thought it was really rude at first then I got a sinking feeling that maybe that was LE in the SUV. We started searching another property then a fellow searcher got a text from someone they know that said something like ‘they found them and it isn’t good.’ A minute or two later our fireman told us two bodies had been found, but since they weren’t ID’d, he wasn’t going to stop searching. We searched for I don’t know how long, but eventually we all went back to sign out.

MOO

 

[gregjrichards]

I’d never participated in a search like that prior, but it seemed like LE was doing everything logical. They had maps for everyone of the trail system, and groups were sent out with a fireman for direction. The larger area was divided up on a big map at search headquarters and locations were being crossed off the map as they were called in as searched. My group was searching I’d guess a mile upstream of where the girls were found. It seemed like search professionals were at the bridge area mainly from what I was told when I registered.

As far as being informed they’d been found, we had cleared a property and were standing by the road to go to the next. A black SUV sped past going very fast. I thought it was really rude at first then I got a sinking feeling that maybe that was LE in the SUV. We started searching another property then a fellow searcher got a text from someone they know that said something like ‘they found them and it isn’t good.’ A minute or two later our fireman told us two bodies had been found, but since they weren’t ID’d, he wasn’t going to stop searching. We searched for I don’t know how long, but eventually we all went back to sign out.

MOO

I'm so sorry it must have been a desperately sad outcome for you and all who kindly searched.

 

[first_light]

I'm so sorry it must have been a desperately sad outcome for you and all who kindly searched.

Thanks GJR. I left there so mad that BG had a significant head start on LE as far as getting away from Delphi and distancing himself from the crime. A few days later, when Libby’s evidence was shown to the public, I thought the tables had turned. But here we all are.

My first thoughts were I didn’t think a person from Delphi did this crime. I think BG lives in a nearby town and randomly found out about the bridge at some point or saw it on the internet... Then committing a crime there became a fantasy. I also think this guy isn’t going to be able to stay out of parks and off trails since he thinks he got away with it at least once already.

JMO

 

[gregjrichards]

Thanks GJR. I left there so mad that BG had a significant head start on LE as far as getting away from Delphi and distancing himself from the crime. A few days later, when Libby’s evidence was shown to the public, I thought the tables had turned. But here we all are.

My first thoughts were I didn’t think a person from Delphi did this crime. I think BG lives in a nearby town and randomly found out about the bridge at some point or saw it on the internet... Then committing a crime there became a fantasy. I also think this guy isn’t going to be able to stay out of parks and off trails since he thinks he got away with it at least once already.

JMO

That's my big worry him attacking again soon, I just wonder when he is going to get the urge and opportunity to attack again. I dread logging in here every day just in case I discover he has struck again.

Please know how much your posts are valued here I really appreciate you joining us and posting.

 

[kidetect22]

I don't think the girl's families would be sending posters out around the United States, handing out flyers at public events and going on tv shows like Dr. Phil and Megyn Kelly begging for tips if this was the case. Why would they waste their energy and resources appealing for information and tips if law enforcement told them we know who BG is and they were planning to arrest him soon? It doesn't make any sense to me.

I think LE has an idea of who it is. IMO. I believe that LE keeps them in the loop enough for the family to know there will be light at the end of the tunnel soon. Also, it’s always great to have more tips and info for when BG is charged. The more evidence against him the better- why not keep getting all you can until he is arrest and really solidify the case! Again, my mind wants to believe this is all going to end soon for the families and justice will be served. I know it’s a stretch! But the family seems to be holding onto hope, so we all have to ... right ?! I really appreciate all your posts by the way. Love the respect even when you disagree with theories of others 👌🏼

 

[Jax49]

Right.

Why ask FBI and GBI to look at the case with new eyes if they knew who BG was?

Doesn't make sense to me.

Totally agree they have not been able to identify the killer.

And I'm so glad they have asked for new eyes on the evidence. Too many times it seems LE doesn't ask for help when they should.

moo

 

[first_light]

Totally agree they have not been able to identify the killer.

And I'm so glad they have asked for new eyes on the evidence. Too many times it seems LE doesn't ask for help when they should.

moo

I’m glad LE are looking through the case again as well. I believe it was Sgt Holeman that described the early days of the investigation as ‘chaos’ in an interview. Maybe THE lead slipped through the first time that won’t this time around.

 

[Peace777]

I def don’t think in the beginning they had any inkling ... now, after a year I believe they are onto something. My one reason behind this thinking is because the family tends to STILL, have so much faith in LE when it pertains to this case. I feel LE is keeping them in the loop and telling them they just need time. But I could be completely wrong too. I don’t truly believe they ever thought DN was th guy, just were crossing t’s and dotting i’s just like they did to RL! IMO.

Well it cost taxpayer money for LE to fly to was it Arizona to interview DN and them knowing likely he wasn't the guy? Same with the RL fiasco it cost man hours etc. Not understanding why follow false leads if LE knows there is no connections?
I bet the composite looks nothing like BG that's why no one can pinpoint him specifically as to being the murderer of Libby and Abby. JMO