IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #9

[monkeypants]

That's the guy! I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw the connection!

Geez good catch nana!!!!!!

 

[rpgman]

The Bridge
1. Is someone hiding in the trees around the bridge? No. The bridge is 60+ ft. off the ground. Due to forced perspective, some photos make it appear as if the bridge and ground are level or nearly so. Anything within close enough proximity to stand on is part of the bridge itself.

2. Is there a person or people standing at one end of the bridge? No. Sgt. Kim Riley of the Indiana State Police (ISP) and photos/videos of the area clearly depict a metal barrier of three vertical poles topped by one horizontal pole (like TTT).

3. Are there vehicles and/or people located below the bridge? Undetermined; previously hotly debated. Some members felt they saw shapes indicative of a vehicle; others felt they saw rock and trees in the same location. At least one side of the bridge has a vehicle-accessible drive. The terrain is generally soft, muddy and has many trees. All-terrain vehicles or more rugged vehicles could likely access this area without problems. People can access on foot or horseback.

Consensus: It is not impossible to get a motorized vehicle near or under the bridge. The majority of members posting seem to feel neither vehicles nor people are pictured. Please remember there can be great variation in people’s perception of color and shape, and the abilities of photo editing or imaging software.​

Item of Note: Law enforcement has made no reference to other potential witnesses who may have been within sight or earshot, but this does not exclude the possibility.​

Item of Note: Google “paredolia.” Seeing patterns or images which are not actually present. Overall, a helpful term to know when trying to objectively analyze images.​

The Girls’ Cell Phones

1. Did the girls’ phones “ping” cell phone towers around town? Yes, reportedly.

2. Did someone take the girls and/or their phones around town? Probably not. Cell phones will ping the nearest tower(s) while on and receiving service.

For example: Tower A is on the West side of town. Tower B is on the East side of town, exactly five miles away. Your phone will ping both towers, but you have not left your home on the East side all day. A ping on Tower A does not mean you traveled 5 miles to the West side of town. It means you were in proximity to both Tower A and Tower B, not that you moved between them.​

3. Do police have the girls’ cell phones? Undetermined, see below.

Abby’s phone: Physical possession of the phone is unknown. Made some recording of the time period in question (from the time they were dropped off until found deceased at 12:15 pm EST the next day). Whatever media was recorded, it has not been released. It has been studied as part of the investigation.​

Libby’s phone: Language used in some news stories could be construed to mean that law enforcement has physical possession of her device, but technically unknown. Took Snapchat photo of Abby on the bridge. Took photo of unknown male suspect on bridge. Recorded audio of unknown male suspect. At this time, law enforcement is unable to positively conclude that the recorded audio is the voice of the male pictured on the bridge. Two suspects cannot and have not been ruled out at this time.​

Libby’s use of the cloud for media storage cannot be confirmed at this time; meaning, chiefly:
If the phone was not initially in law enforcement’s possession, some of the earliest media released may have been obtained from the cloud​

There is no evidence (publicly available at this time) to suggest any recorded audiovisual media from the attack was automatically posted to social media; therefore, we do not believe any of her friends or followers on social media saw or heard anything in real time or after the fact.​

Libby’s grandfather stated that he sent her text messages. In his words, he could tell they were delivered but not read.​

So your saying that Abbys cell recorded something? I don't recall she even had a phone on her and if she did that it recorded something.?

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[Jabarn]

the bridge
1. is someone hiding in the trees around the bridge? no. The bridge is 60+ ft. Off the ground. Due to forced perspective, some photos make it appear as if the bridge and ground are level or nearly so. Anything within close enough proximity to stand on is part of the bridge itself.

2. is there a person or people standing at one end of the bridge? no. Sgt. Kim riley of the indiana state police (isp) and photos/videos of the area clearly depict a metal barrier of three vertical poles topped by one horizontal pole (like ttt).

3. are there vehicles and/or people located below the bridge? undetermined; previously hotly debated. Some members felt they saw shapes indicative of a vehicle; others felt they saw rock and trees in the same location. At least one side of the bridge has a vehicle-accessible drive. The terrain is generally soft, muddy and has many trees. All-terrain vehicles or more rugged vehicles could likely access this area without problems. People can access on foot or horseback.

consensus: It is not impossible to get a motorized vehicle near or under the bridge. The majority of members posting seem to feel neither vehicles nor people are pictured. Please remember there can be great variation in people’s perception of color and shape, and the abilities of photo editing or imaging software.​

item of note: Law enforcement has made no reference to other potential witnesses who may have been within sight or earshot, but this does not exclude the possibility.​

item of note: Google “paredolia.” seeing patterns or images which are not actually present. Overall, a helpful term to know when trying to objectively analyze images.​

the girls’ cell phones

1. did the girls’ phones “ping” cell phone towers around town? yes, reportedly.

2. did someone take the girls and/or their phones around town? probably not. Cell phones will ping the nearest tower(s) while on and receiving service.

for example: Tower a is on the west side of town. Tower b is on the east side of town, exactly five miles away. Your phone will ping both towers, but you have not left your home on the east side all day. A ping on tower a does not mean you traveled 5 miles to the west side of town. It means you were in proximity to both tower a and tower b, not that you moved between them.​

3. do police have the girls’ cell phones? undetermined, see below.

abby’s phone: physical possession of the phone is unknown. Made some recording of the time period in question (from the time they were dropped off until found deceased at 12:15 pm est the next day). Whatever media was recorded, it has not been released. It has been studied as part of the investigation.​

libby’s phone: Language used in some news stories could be construed to mean that law enforcement has physical possession of her device, but technically unknown. Took snapchat photo of abby on the bridge. Took photo of unknown male suspect on bridge. Recorded audio of unknown male suspect. At this time, law enforcement is unable to positively conclude that the recorded audio is the voice of the male pictured on the bridge. Two suspects cannot and have not been ruled out at this time.​

libby’s use of the cloud for media storage cannot be confirmed at this time; meaning, chiefly:
If the phone was not initially in law enforcement’s possession, some of the earliest media released may have been obtained from the cloud​

there is no evidence (publicly available at this time) to suggest any recorded audiovisual media from the attack was automatically posted to social media; therefore, we do not believe any of her friends or followers on social media saw or heard anything in real time or after the fact.​

libby’s grandfather stated that he sent her text messages. In his words, he could tell they were delivered but not read.​

thank you!

 

[Lamima]

AMF

He also used to live beside a river in Lafayette. The guy is a river guy

Wow. Could be why they're fast tracking DNA.

 

[layer]

Seems like it would be prudent to establish that this was a sex crime before we go digging through mug shots of sex offenders.

Maybe it's just me.

 

[Inthedetails]

I don't know how many of you here followed the Hannah Graham case, the UVA student who disappeared from the downtown mall in Charlottesville. In that case, police fairly quickly found and released surveillance footage from the moment she met up with her captor and killer, Jesse Matthew. Thing is, though, the police first drew attention to a white guy who followed her. Lots of passionate sleuths from the public, here and elsewhere, zoomed in on Matthew instead after scrutinizing the video up, down and sideways. Just keep in mind, as Foxfire would say, the public can be a real asset and it can help for a zillion of minds and eyes to help them crowdsource even a grainy image for clues.

Plus, the passion of LE in this case reminds me of Chief Longo. He was awesome in those pressers!

Oh, Chief Longo was dreamy.

Yes, I do remember focusing on the white guy in the store entry way in that video.

I also remember some WS speculating that the same perp was responsible for a previous killing and I thought that was far-fetched. Turns out he was....so I don't rule out that the perp who killed Libby and Abby might also have killed others. Time will tell.

With each case, we learn a bit....

jmo

 

[Falling Down]

JMo


I messed up just a little with the "start" point, roughly where the "down the hill" comment was pulled from the audio.

The end of the bridge is right by where one end of my line is located on this Google Maps image. The other end is a rough estimate of where they ended up, according to maps in other threads. That end of the line is roughly below the cemetery, but would be on the private property discussed in other posts.

Sorry for the rough sketch, but that route is roughly the one which lead the victims to their deaths.

 

[Tawny]

Take a few hours off to work and like, have a life, and now I'm completely lost. Any new pertinent info or just 55 pages of wild speculation based on the 2 still images we already have?

 

[lecarte]

Using Google Earth, the distance from the end of the bridge, to roughly where they ended up "50' from the shore line/creek", is around 1000', and I'm being generous.

Now, for all the people who want to look at the mapped area I looked at, just look up the park on Google Earth.

****SPOILER ALERT****

There are two creeks the bridge crosses. Deer Creek, and Bridge Creek. They were at the Bridge Creek end of bridge, by a road below them, which turns into a driveway.

So they had to walk across two creeks, to the spot where they were murdered. Bridge Creek, across what must be hard or semi-hard soil, to the creek bank for Deer Creek, then acoss Deer Creek, up the creek bank 50' to the killing spot.

Under 1,000' according to Google Earth.

Bridge Creek runs into Deer Creek west of the bridge. I don't think they would have crossed Bridge Creek to get to where the bodies were found, regardless of which side they exited the bridge.

My speculation is that the hill they walked down was at the SE end of the bridge. I think they basically took a 90-degree turn at that point to head NE toward the creek. I can't imagine this had a plan that actually involved getting in the creek, so my speculation is that at some point, one or both girls tried to flee across the creek to get away (it's not real deep). But this caught up to them on the north side of the creek.

It's a much shorter route from the SE side of the bridge to where the bodies were found compared to the NW side of the bridge. Also, approaching from that angle doesn't involve the steep hills that approaching from the other side of the bridge/creek would.

All JMO...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=16zsrEQbJVk5gXeLxJeONQunneEY&usp=sharing

 

[ldubya14]

If it was a burner phone, there's a great great chance they couldn't trace it to who owned it, which is the whole point of a burner phone. But who knows, maybe he does have a phone. I feel like this guy might be smarter than that though. JMO.


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I don't think he's technologically smart...at all imo. I just did some reading up on burner phones. This link is very interesting
http://www.b3rn3d.com/blog/2014/01/22/burnerphone/

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[Tawny]

I messed up just a little with the "start" point, roughly where the "down the hill" comment was pulled from the audio.

The end of the bridge is right by where one end of my line is located on this Google Maps image. The other end is a rough estimate of where they ended up, according to maps in other threads. That end of the line is roughly below the cemetery, but would be on the private property discussed in other posts.

Sorry for the rough sketch, but that route is roughly the one which lead the victims to their deaths.

Is this fact?

If not, please include "JMO" or "MOO" so others don't think it's based on info released by LE.

 

[katydid23]

If a RSO did this, they don't need to see his picture, the DNA match in the system will set off alarms.......

Unless there were two people....

 

[Gunther Toody]

Add the fact that he had the presence of mind to hide the bodies in the woods (assuming that is what he did) certainly leads to an organized killer.He appears to have been able to approach via a "con" as opposed to a surprise or blitz. His nonchalant approach seems not to have caused the girls any distress until he reached them.

When all is said and done, I think it will come out that this man knew the girls from the neighborhood and took advantage of that relationship to feed a perverted sexual appetite.

The railroad does not allow people on that bridge yet both the girls and the killer walked the bridge. The girls did not run and hide when they saw the man approaching, which is what you would expect young girls to do if they were doing something illegal and a stranger was approaching. If they did not know the man they should have fled in fear that he worked for the railroad and would tell their parents they were playing by the tracks...but they didn't run.

In fact, Abby stood there without concern and either took video or snapped a photo. In either case, smart phone photo lenses are notorious for blurred pictures caused by movement due to their slow shutter speed and wide apertures. ...yet her image does not show movement, blurring, or anything you might expect if she were terrorized or in fear.....I believe she knew him as a family friend and just took his picture for fun and maybe they were all just walking together "down the hill." until he became sexually aggressive and they threatened to tell..

 

[barbarababe]

The perp may not have had a cell phone of his own. If he did it could have been a burner phone and tossed. Jmo.


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I think both areas are definitely worth looking over, but it is possible he didn't have a phone.

This guy for whatever reason is reminding me of Israel Keyes. He would hunt victims in the wilderness. Had supplies all over random states and he always turned his phone off.

 

[Safeguard]

You mean like allowing himself to be videoed and then possibly not getting the victim's phone? I'd say he at least flunked SK 101

When they catch him, you can tell me that he that he "flunked SK 101". Looks like he's passing right now.

He knew what he doing. He's not delusional in the slightest. Schizophrenics have issues, I bet you they won't find in this killer when they catch him.

 

[liltexans]

As local law enforcement agencies continue their hunt for the girls’ killer, the FBI has been assisting with technical analysis, intelligence and the use of their lead tracking capabilities. On any given day FBI Special Agent Greg Massa said the FBI has upwards of 20 agents on the scene in Delphi.

“We’re out on the streets as well, conducting interviews and other investigative activity to support them,” said Special Agent Massa.

The FBI works hundreds of violent crimes each year, but Massa said cases like the murder of two Delphi teens weigh heavily on all of those involved.

“This is the most heinous crime that there can be. When children who are innocent are killed, it obviously shatters lives in that community. That’s why crimes against children are probably the hardest thing to work,” said Massa.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...bi-posters-seek-information-on-delphi-murders

 

[Hoosier952]

Doesn't hurt to think about, but some people, myself included, are often alone in the afternoon, and it might not be such a red flag. Not everyone makes themselves accountable to others every hour of the day, I would guess this guy, more than most, likes his "alone time" and those who know him probably have no idea what he does with his free time.

But if someone is normally around or available at that time and they strangely weren't it might be worth calling it in.

This town could be my town - and I want you to know that nearly everything - EVERYTHING - about the girls, where they went, what they were doing, and even this guy on the bridge - is so painfully normal and not out of place for Central Indiana that it makes my heart hurt.

Snipped- I feel the same way. This case is the first that has literally broken my heart. Way too close to home. Even though we're farther away, everyone in our small little community has Delphi on their minds. It's quite apparent by the conversations I'm having with friends and family and my FB. This has shaken rural Indiana to the core.

So your saying that Abbys cell recorded something? I don't recall she even had a phone on her and if she did that it recorded something.?

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I'm so confused about this. All of the articles keep mentioning phones, but Abby's mom said she didn't have one. And no one has been able to clarify when I've asked. I'm not sure if reporters are assuming or if LE/FBI is going through a phone she owns but didn't have at the time or if she had access to another phone of some sort.

 

[apples12]

Hello, I'm new to the site. I have been following the posts in their entirety so I'm up to speed.

I am a trained psychoanalyst, in practice over 35 years. Perhaps my unique training can be of help.

What strikes most is the voice recording of "down the hill". The voice conveys barely hidden excitement, as if one was presenting a special gift to a birthday girl.

 

[sunsetbeach]

Geez good catch nana!!!!!!

I posted this 3 days ago. Thread #4

[quote name="galaxygal" post=13159177]I'm not sure if this was the link, but this is one I found earlier: http://www.homefacts.com/offenders/Indiana/Carroll-County.html[/QUOTE]


Thanks!

The first guy in your link piqued my interest the other day and still does. I wonder if anyone has talked to him?
He lives 8.0/8.3 miles from the bridge. He lives a little less than 5 miles from the Middle and High School.


Also, thanks Hope32 for the other link.

I'm not 100% if he still lives in Delphi but he has an address listed there. He lived in Lafayette at one time. There is a short blurb of a story about him online with a more recent pic (2015). He was charged with a felony so he may be behind bars for all I know. I would love to know the answer to that question.



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[NancyDrew007]

Wow. Could be why they're fast tracking DNA.

OMG I thought the same thing yesterday when I saw his face. It could be him.


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