IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

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(Consolidated into one post for easy reference. Thank you again @Spellbound for transcribing and @tresir2012 for finding these and reposting.)
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“I (Spellbound) am working on transcribing the 27 minute interview between Alexis McAdams [A], reporter, and Sgt. Holeman [H]. I will put some time-marks throughout to help you find anything that may be a mistake by me, or to find a section. Alexis talks too fast and her wording is disjointed, so her questions may not be quite verbatim. And it is very much harder to do on an iPad than when I did real transcriptions for a job! (sorry, no time to proofread, please forgive -- when my fingers go numb every 5 minutes or so, there may be a lot of "funny" errors, but I tried to catch them.) I got through about half, but need a long break for making dinner and resting my fingers. Will try to get to the rest later tonight or tomorrow.

27-minute video interview 8/14/2017, Det. Holeman, near bottom of page, two possible sources (I used the second):
Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

https://player.ooyala.com/static/v4...5267225247&pcode=A5YjUyOju0deP9y9BK28b-61JYT5



PART 1
A: so tell me, obviously you guys see this posted all over online, people want to know , you have all this evidence in this case and still six months later no suspect in custody. What would your answer be to the community?

H: Well, it's not like on TV, you know you see on CSI shows that they solve them in two commercial breaks. So it takes a lot of time, and we want to be very thorough, so we want to take our time, make sure our i's are dotted, t's are crossed. This is a tough case. This is a tough case. There's, I think, alleged a lot of evidence, but really we have very little evidence in this case, so we're working with what we have. We're getting a ton of tips, which helps. But some of those tips are misleading and kind of lead us disarray and get us unfocused from where we're headed. So, but I think, it's not from lack of effort. We continue to use all the detectives from State, Federal, and Local agencies and we use all the resources that are available, and we are going to continue to do that. We're not gonna leave, we're, it's not a Cold Case, because we're still getting infomation. So we are gonna continue to work as hard as we can on this.

A: To have .... you say "little evidence", which you know we are not all .... I'm not a detective, I don't want to put the police ... but when you hear umm yeah the guy's voice, that sketch, you've got, you know, possible other audio and video and all these other tips and maybe then the reward money, is that more than people usually have in a case like this?

H: yeah, I think so. I think we, I said we don't have a lot, but we have more than, uhh, more than enough to make a case; but we're just not getting that break yet, you now. We're still getting closer every day; we're eliminating; we're getting a lot of on people that didn't do it and we eliminate those daily. So like I said before, it's the needle in the haystack and we get those tips on so-and-so and we eliminate them by however we do that, and that just takes some other pieces out of the hay so we can focus, and then eventually we're gonna, it's gonna be there. Umm, so we keep working but/and I think uh of people are misled by some of the FB postings, and social media is not as helpful as some people might think so ...

A: So six months ago you got the phone call, I know you talked about this before, who called you and said first Abby Williams and, you know, Libby German were missing?

H: [2:27] umm, I think I got the.... I heard it on the radio actually, and then I called the Sheriff to see if they needed assistance, and he said 'yeah, we probably are gonna need some help.' That was when they were missing; and then, of course, we got our helicopter involved and we were still on the search phase. And then, obviously, when we located them and knew it was a double homicide then we called in other resources throughout-- the State Police and then the FBI, and I know we have had just a ton of resources and people volunteering to help. Which is good. So that's how that started, you know, now we are here. We're still working, we're still motivated and a lot of people .... it is stressful. It's a very stressful case, obviously, and it's very easy to get emotionally tied, but I think everybody involved is still doing well. We're still motivated, we're still optimistic that we are gonna catch this person that's responsible for this, and we're not letting up or giving in or anything like that. We're stronger than ever. We're actually getting more people involved. So, I think, you know, the time is coming, we're getting closer everyday. I know that's cliche', but we are. We're eliminating people and we're working harder than ever.

A: And within the first 48 hours in the case, so here you are, you hear it on the radio, you step in which, thank God that you guys stepped in so quickly, because look how it ended up happening; whwen it first comes out two missing girls, you think two missing girls in a small town, who would have thought this was ever gonna be the case, but ... What was the investigative work that happened in the first 48 hours, without obviously going into too much detail to put the case in jeopardy?

H: Well, I think you secure the scene, you start doing whatever you can; talk to everybody in the area, we have the crime scene investigators there. Just basically the steps that you would do. Collecting videos throughout the areas, doing things like that. Just, you know, from Ground Zero. That's what you would do in any case, you know.... start talking to people, and get out knocking on doors. We call that an area canvass, so because it's a rural area we had to kind of stretch that out a little bit, and so we did maybe a general area canvass initially and maybe a day or two later we spread that out, come back, make sure. 'Cuz it was February so there was still people on vacation or winter "snowbirds" they call them, and so there were still some houses that we didn't make contact right away, so... But we have now, I mean we continue to do that and now six months later we're still getting new tips on people, so we're following up on those. But also, we have a group of detectives who are assigned to go back to make sure we didn't miss anything, so we re-review things and so we're taking it very serious and we're not gonna let anything slip through the cracks. That's your biggest fear, I think, when you're doing an investigation is something might slip through the cracks and we're not gonna let that happen. We have a team of people that keep going back, reviewing and we're getting there. We're working on it harder than ever and we're gonna continue to work hard.

[stopping at 5.32 for now]
[my fingers are totally numb, which means I constantly hit the wrong keys, so I have to take a break. Will continue as soon as I can]
=============================
PART 2:
A: [5.34] When the people come forward that mentioned, you know, because that sketch behind you is pretty detailed, like we said, and the guy that did it is obviously unbelievably talented because he maybe didn't have a bunch of information but it's unbelievable what they could come up with, right, and make it into this composite sketch that could end up helping crack the case. But, when did those people come forward that said that they saw him possibly near the trail?

H: Well, that's a good question. It's actually compiled, it's not just from one person, so we've had several people say that they saw the person that we identified through the video that we obtained off of Liberty's phone. And we put that out so once people saw that photo then they said "oh I saw that guy; I saw that guy." We have to determine 'is that the guy they saw' first of all, and if it is then let's work together. So, we were getting calls that night, and throughout the last couple months. Some people don't watch the news. Some people don't really follow what's going on . So some of them were sooner-than-later, um. But then we took our time with that. We took our time, we interviewed the composite drawing itself took probably 2/12 to 3 weeks, because we wanted to make sure ourselves that it was exactly right at the people had recalled that. So, um, we have been, I think, getting better tips. Obviously the first photo is pretty hard to see. It's pixelated pretty bad, and this is pretty detailed. We want to make sure that people know this might not look exactly like the person, but it's gonna have similar facial features. So, this is just what the person or persons that we've interviewed over the last several months believe this is what this guy looked like. There's four of us in this room right now. If somebody walked into this room for 30 seconds and left, we'd all have different drawings, but I think the facial features and the major identifiers we would all get right. So, that's what we're hoping, that this gives us a little more guidance, a little more not-as-vague. And it's helping. We are getting better tips. We're still getting some not-so-good tips, I would say. But we're getting a little better tips from this composite drawing.

A: [7.45]. is it a few people kind of , possibly that saw him, or there was more than a couple that called in, right?



H: Yeah. There's ... I would say that's a good statement, there's more than a few that said they saw him. Now, I guess we have to determine there was other people on that trail, or they actually seen that guy is responsible for this, or they seen somebody else that was just out there walking.

A: In time-frame-wise, how long do you think he was out there that day, and have you just kind of stopped by, tried to find if he was planning this, tried to find somebody that was walking off the trail and thought 'hey, this would be a good target", or was he just out there for a little bit?

H: I wish I could tell you that. I have theories, but we, you know, the evidence is pretty... like I said, the evidence doesn't really indicate how long or if he was a traveler or local, and some of that we just speculate on. We can't say he is or isn't. But we just have to go off that evidence that we have; the composite drawing, the video, the audio, and just continue to rely on the community. I still believe somebody knows, somebody knows what happened. For whatever reason, they won't come forward, and we wish they would, obviously.... because this person's probably gonna do this again and I'd hate for that to happen to you or your loved ones. That's the message that I want to get out to the public, that if you do know, for sure you need to let us know so we can possibly stop this from happening again to your daughter, or your mother, or sister, or anybody. Could be brother or father as well, so...
[numb finger break time]

A: [9.21] And personality traits in a person like this, and that's I think what people have thought about before and maybe him, if there was just one person, is this the guy that was able to get both of these little girls in the woods and do these, you know, brutally murder them, do you think he possibly has done this before?

H: Uh, he could be, you know, that's, again, just kind of our theory or speculation, we have no evidence that he's done it again. But we do keep that in mind. We do check with other states to see if they have anything close; and obviously the case in Iowa is the closest; but they don't even know the cause of death in that one because they didn't find the victims until later. So, it's hard to compare. But it is similar, but, so, we have taken that into consideration as well, and we have investigated that. We've been in contact with Iowa and they have been in contact with us, and we've discussed that, but nothing else seems to be popping up around the nation that is similar to this. But that doesn't mean he is gonna kill everybody the same way every time, so (shrugs), we don't know.

A: When you walked down and I walked through, that was private property right where the bodies were found. Looking at it logistically from where they were on the bridge and to where their bodies were found, I know we talked about the terrain in the past. I know it's not an easy thing to navigate. Usually you might have to be familiar with the area. I mean, would it have been difficult for the girls to from where they were on the bridge to where they were found?

H: [10:49] Yeah. Absolutely. I think it would be difficult, obviously. They have to go through some pretty steep terrain in a wooded area, sticker bushes and things like that, so it's uh ... and then to cross the creek. The creek, and obviously it's February, it's probably not the warmest . The weather was a warm day that day, but still the water temperature is probably cooler than the air temperature. So yeah, it would have been difficult for .... I mean, I don't think anybody, say on a walk, would walk that way.

A: Walking back that way, obviously I wasn't even there when you guys found all these horrible things at the crime scene. But even just walking through the area you get like a eerie feeling, almost feel sick to your stomach because you think about what Abby & Libby went through, and the families are going through, and the fact that he's still out there. You had to go to the crime scene, and like, I mean you covered, I'm sure, dozens of murder cases but this has probably been one of the hardest for you, having kids, as well. I mean, did you get a sick feeling as soon as you had to go there?

H: Oh yeah. I think everybody -- obviously when two young girls are brutally murdered and you are there to investigate it and see what you have to see and do what you have to do, you become emotionally tied to it and you think about your family and friends. But I think what keeps me going is I try ..... I've said this a million times.... you try to put yourself in these families' shoes and you just can't do it. I can't imagine what they are going through. So I try to put my emotions aside and focus on the evidence and focus on how can we bring justice for Abby & Libby, and for the families. I mean, is that gonna do it if we make an arrest? I think it will help; like anything can bring them back, obviously. I don't think anything can ever make things like they were before the 13th. It's never gonna happen. But we want to try and bring some closure to the families for the girls. And so, even though we are all trained professionals and we've done this many times, it's still hard, it's still hard to shut your brain off at night and go visit with your grandkids or visit with you family and not think about it constantly. So it's difficult, but you know, we are here for a reason. We're here to find out who did this, and that's what we have to keep telling ourselves and keep being re-motivated and motivated to do that. And that's what we're gonna do.

[13.13]
Part 3 starts at 13.13
A: That area where the bodies were found, too, when you guys went down there, because you guys kept that crime tape up for awhile, you were still going back down there and re-tracing the steps and looking for anything, that, you know, you might have needed to go back, you know, to the scene to check out.... so when you went back down there, so that area that was taped off, that area was where bodies were found, right in that circular, that taped off place?

H: Yes.

A: So that's where when we walked down there, obviously all that investigative work had been done and they had taken away any evidence they had found. Was there a decent amount of evidence found at the scene?

H: Oh, I think so. I think, uh, you know, without getting into detail, I think, like I said, we don't have a lot of evidence, but we do have more than, you know, maybe your normal crime scene. We have evidence there that we're processing daily and working on, and still, yeah it's been six months but there is still different techniques you can use and things like that. I'm not a lab person, so I can't talk in lab language, but I'm in contact with them weekly, if not daily, and they are telling us we're still doing this, we're still working on things. Yeah, it's hard to say without jeopardizing the integrity of rthe invesrtigation how much evidence we had, because there's three people, in my opinion, maybe more, but at least three people that know what happened, knew what happened that day, and two of them are dead. So that one person knows the details of the crime. That's why we don't like to talk about the details or what we found or what we didn't find, because when we do get that person, when we do talk to them, they are the only ones that are gonna know the details for this. And that's another reason why we don't like FB putting false information out because then people believe that and then they tip off of those details that are false, and it just kind of impedes our investigartion a little bit.

A: [15.11] Was there DNA evidence found at the scene.

H: Well, yeah. Obviously that's a tricky question nobody wants to answer. You know, I think in every crime scene you have, you're gonna have DNA. You're gonna have the victim's DNA, you're gonna probably have victim's family's DNA. You know touch DNA is very powerful, so if I touch your shirt today, you know that DNA could still be there for weeks, if not months. So we're still working on identifying whose all DNA we have there, and we will continue to do that until we determine who all's DNA is at the scene.

A: so, this guy, you know, thinks he possibly got away with this, and that's one of the things, too, I know you guys are waiting, possibly he could start talking about it to people, because that's happened in other cases, they think 'ope, I got away with it' and then they go start trying brag about it, which is something you guys are following up on every day. But if he thinks he got away with it and thinks he cleaned up the scene, there still could possibly be something that he left behind?

H: Absolutely. so, yeah.

A: That's powerful, though, for the community to know too, because they were like that's, like I know you mentioned that's the question that nobody really wanted to get too much into when we talked to the Sheriff and things, but you mentioned any DNA, and DNA's from the girls, DNA is at the scene just from other things. But that's important that you guys are running that through and working with the lab. um, and then, is there anything that happened within that first 48 hours when you stepped in, too. Like, you volunteered immediately to have Indiana State Police come in to help out the Sheriff's department. Is there anything you think that could have been done differently that could have put the case in jeopardy in the beginning stages?

H: Absolutely. I think, you know, when you Monday morning quarterback, there are things you could have possibly done a little better or quicker now. Is there anything we did or didn't do that jeopardized this case? No. I think that with the FBI and the County and the State, all the resources that we have used, there's really nothing that we could have done more. But, I'm my own worst critic, so is there anything we couuld have done better? Yeah. That's every case. But we continue to learn from that and again, like I said, we didn't do anything or not do anything to jeopardize the case, but are ther things that we could do better? Yeah. So, you know, with have Jay Harper with the State Police Investigator, we have Tim McKindle, also, with the State Police Lead Investigator, and my job is to kind of manage this, so I have been trying to manage this from Day One, with the County, with the FBI, so that's an obstacle in itself, trying to manage something this big, but we've had plenty of guidance from all of our supervisors and such a great team; I mean, we obviously have gotten along with Carroll County pretty well and unfortunately, through other instances happen because life doesn't stop, so, unfortunately, we still get major crime scenes that they have to assist with here. And manpower issues, I mean we all have them. The county is short-handed, the State Police are short-handed, the FBI, everybody needs more. So if you are out there, apply for the State Police next time, we definitely need the help.

A: [18.33] you need help, yeah, get some new recruits. Umm, tell me, with the audio, which we heard. I remember the first time that was played at the press conference and that was bone-chilling to know you are going to be able to hear this person's voice, even though it was just that tiny clip. But what he was saying gave away, you know, some clues as well, but what has that been able to do for the case, having that voice out there?

H: I think it's helped a lot. Obviously, it's a distinctive voice. We've been getting a lot of tips off of that. unfortunately, the people that people think it is, we've been able to eliminate them. Not all of them, but most of them, we can eliminate through checking records and things like that. So, I think it's helped quite a bit. I think as we get into this deeper, it's gonna help us even more-so.

A: Is there more audio that was found on Libby's phone?

H: Yes.

A: Is that something that would be released?

H: Not at this point. We've discussed it and at this point we don't think it will help the investigation. At this time it doesn't appear to be anything more than some discussion between the girls and things like that. So, we've only released a portion of it. There's some others that we think could help us, but again, protecting the integrity of the investigation is the key here. We can't release everything we have, because there's only certain people that know the details. If we release everything then we get into possible false confessions and people over-exaggerating and embellishing things put on FB like we already battle with. So, we can only give so much.

A: The FB thing, I know that's been a, that's had a huge effect on the family. I mean, that's like, you know, probably a few years ago if this case had happened, or a decade ago, that wouldn't even have been a thing. Has that interfered with the case?

H: Oh absolutely. I talked to some of the older investigators, they didn't have to deal with that. When I talk about some of the stresses about social media. I've had a tip on me from interviewing with other stations. Absolutely. We've had tips on other police officers for whatever reason. We've had people that do their blogs that put out false information, and then if I tell them that's false and then they embellish and tell people that I'm giving out details of the case, which we are not. I will try to squash any rumors that people call and ask about, without jeopardizing the integrity of the investigation. But yeah, you know, again, I can't imagine what the family is going through just because of the incident, but now you have social media with all these rumors and false implications that i'ts just got to be driving them crazy. I talk tot the family quite a bit and try to tell them, you know, don't believe everything you hear on social media. I think it could be positive, I think. But what I would say is, instead of posting it on FB, call us before and let us investigate it because once you put it out there and it is false, then it interferes with our investigation and it bogs us down, because people start tipping off of false information, and we follow up on every tip. So, I think social media is a challenge for us, and we're trying to utilize it to teh best of our abilities, but it is definitely something that interferes with our investigations at times.
A: [22.04] How often do you listen to the audio clip. I mean, you probably listen to the full one, but is that something that kind of gives you .... when you're feeling down or you're like 'all right, here I am six months later and we have all these people working the case, you put, like, your whole life has been pretty much been consumed by this, so I mean, when you try to listen to that guy's voice again and look at that picture, does that kind of give you more momentum to be like, 'I'm gonna find you."?

H: I think that every time I close my eyes I hear the audio and I see the picture, I don't have to listen to it because I have listened to it a million times. But yeah, it definitely re-motivates us to think about that. So yeah, it's there

A: Do you think he thinKs he got away with it"

H: Oh yeah. I think probably. But he didn't. We'll catch him. I mean, like I said, it's not from lack of effort and we will continue to put all the effort that we have available and utilize all the resources that we have until we catch the monster that's responsible for this.

A: This is something that I wanted to ask about the audio clip. You mentioned that there's discussions and things like that. Can you say if the recording was going when thE murder happened?

H: I would say that I can't divulge that, just to protect the integrity of the investigation.

A: Resources you said you had never seen so many resources, FBI, ATF, local, State, Federal authorities, all coming in. I mean, you had all those people coming from Quantico and tried to help with the behavioral analysis, and that was also interesting in the beginning. Did that help, did that bring you guys maybe to a stage where you think you kind of know more about his guy?

H: Well, I think so. You know, the FBI has brought their behavioral analysis unit, they gave us more information. You know. We utilized social media, people just looking at social media. Like I said, it's bad, but we can also gather a lot of information about people from the social media, or digital media recovery specialist that, you know, would get all the information off of computers for us, and cell phones and, yeah. It's just a ton of resources that we were able to utilize through State, Local, and Federal.

A: [24.16] Was her cell phone, I mean, are you surprised he didn't try to take cell phone or take any evidence with him?

H: Was I surprised that ....?

A: That he didn't try to take it? I mean, you would think that if that had had, maybe he didn't know that they were recording, but ...

H: Yeah.

A: Do you believe that?

H: You know, I don't know. Nothing surprises me any more after doing this job for awhile, but who knows what he was thinking or what he knew. You know, we don't know that.

A: But it was all pretty, like, you didn't have to go searching through the woods, all that stuff was kind of let in that area, right?

H: ahh, that's a fair statement, the general area.

A: Then, going to tips, you've had thousands of tips, thousands of dollars in reward money. How many people have you guys interviewed?

H: Well, I would say probably thousands of people. Depends on what you consider an interview. A lot of people may say that's a little smaller, but we did an area canvass, so we interviewed probably 600 people that were driving through the area, we'd stop, talk to them. We've contacted numerous people to talk to them and I would consider those interviews. As far as formal, you know, if you're audio/videoing somebody, is that a formal interview? Probably four or five hundred-ish. But we have talked to thousands of people on this case.

A: The last thing. Do you think that he was from Delphi?

H: You know, I really don't know. I think for obvious reasons I think he had to know the area. Was he from here, visiting, or been here.... I mean, I don't know. But you mentioned earlier the train and that area taht this incident occurred, for somebody just to go out there and be able to do what he did and leave, you would think he either got real lucky and walked the right way to get out with nobody seeing him, or drove or flew, who knows how he left the scene, or he knew the area.

A: Was a weapon left at the scene?

H: uhh, I don't want to answer that at this time, so....

A: Anything else you want to add, or is that pretty much everything?

H: Oh, I think so. I think that's it

[a man out of the scene is asking a question] For the image to be captured on the phone, was there prior video of the girls together before that, or do you think they felt danger from this person and that is why she recorded that clip of him?

H: Both. There were pictures of ... they went out there to take pictures on the bridge, and there was pictures and video, but it appeared that, and this has been said before, that Liberty had enough senses to realize that something wasn't right and she started that video because she felt uncomfortable, both girls were uncomfortable. And I think that's why. But they were out there taking pictures with the phone and videos.

A: Is the clip like several minutes long?

H: I don't know exactly how long it is, but .... (He seems "uncomfortable", for lack of a better description)

A: Did she shut it off, or was it just ....

H: uh, I don't want to talk about how that ... right now.

A: OK, that's fine. sorry

[that's the end]

27-minute video interview 8/14/2017, Det. Holeman, near bottom of page, two sources (I acutally used the second):
http://fox59.com/2017/08/14/lead-de...ave-more-audio-from-teens-phone-dna-evidence/
https://player.ooyala.com/static/v4...5267225247&pcode=A5YjUyOju0deP9y9BK28b-61JYT5
Continuing from [13.13]
A= Alexis McAdams H=Det. Holeman
====
 
Last edited:
margarita25 said:
(Consolidated into one post for easy reference. Thank you again @Spellbound for transcribing and @tresir2012 for finding these and reposting.)
—-

“I (Spellbound) am working on transcribing the 27 minute interview between Alexis McAdams [A], reporter, and Sgt. Holeman [H]. I will put some time-marks throughout to help you find anything that may be a mistake by me, or to find a section. Alexis talks too fast and her wording is disjointed, so her questions may not be quite verbatim. And it is very much harder to do on an iPad than when I did real transcriptions for a job! (sorry, no time to proofread, please forgive -- when my fingers go numb every 5 minutes or so, there may be a lot of "funny" errors, but I tried to catch them.) I got through about half, but need a long break for making dinner and resting my fingers. Will try to get to the rest later tonight or tomorrow.

27-minute video interview 8/14/2017, Det. Holeman, near bottom of page, two possible sources (I used the second):
Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

https://player.ooyala.com/static/v4...5267225247&pcode=A5YjUyOju0deP9y9BK28b-61JYT5



PART 1
A: so tell me, obviously you guys see this posted all over online, people want to know , you have all this evidence in this case and still six months later no suspect in custody. What would your answer be to the community?

H: Well, it's not like on TV, you know you see on CSI shows that they solve them in two commercial breaks. So it takes a lot of time, and we want to be very thorough, so we want to take our time, make sure our i's are dotted, t's are crossed. This is a tough case. This is a tough case. There's, I think, alleged a lot of evidence, but really we have very little evidence in this case, so we're working with what we have. We're getting a ton of tips, which helps. But some of those tips are misleading and kind of lead us disarray and get us unfocused from where we're headed. So, but I think, it's not from lack of effort. We continue to use all the detectives from State, Federal, and Local agencies and we use all the resources that are available, and we are going to continue to do that. We're not gonna leave, we're, it's not a Cold Case, because we're still getting infomation. So we are gonna continue to work as hard as we can on this.

A: To have .... you say "little evidence", which you know we are not all .... I'm not a detective, I don't want to put the police ... but when you hear umm yeah the guy's voice, that sketch, you've got, you know, possible other audio and video and all these other tips and maybe then the reward money, is that more than people usually have in a case like this?

H: yeah, I think so. I think we, I said we don't have a lot, but we have more than, uhh, more than enough to make a case; but we're just not getting that break yet, you now. We're still getting closer every day; we're eliminating; we're getting a lot of on people that didn't do it and we eliminate those daily. So like I said before, it's the needle in the haystack and we get those tips on so-and-so and we eliminate them by however we do that, and that just takes some other pieces out of the hay so we can focus, and then eventually we're gonna, it's gonna be there. Umm, so we keep working but/and I think uh of people are misled by some of the FB postings, and social media is not as helpful as some people might think so ...

A: So six months ago you got the phone call, I know you talked about this before, who called you and said first Abby Williams and, you know, Libby German were missing?

H: [2:27] umm, I think I got the.... I heard it on the radio actually, and then I called the Sheriff to see if they needed assistance, and he said 'yeah, we probably are gonna need some help.' That was when they were missing; and then, of course, we got our helicopter involved and we were still on the search phase. And then, obviously, when we located them and knew it was a double homicide then we called in other resources throughout-- the State Police and then the FBI, and I know we have had just a ton of resources and people volunteering to help. Which is good. So that's how that started, you know, now we are here. We're still working, we're still motivated and a lot of people .... it is stressful. It's a very stressful case, obviously, and it's very easy to get emotionally tied, but I think everybody involved is still doing well. We're still motivated, we're still optimistic that we are gonna catch this person that's responsible for this, and we're not letting up or giving in or anything like that. We're stronger than ever. We're actually getting more people involved. So, I think, you know, the time is coming, we're getting closer everyday. I know that's cliche', but we are. We're eliminating people and we're working harder than ever.

A: And within the first 48 hours in the case, so here you are, you hear it on the radio, you step in which, thank God that you guys stepped in so quickly, because look how it ended up happening; whwen it first comes out two missing girls, you think two missing girls in a small town, who would have thought this was ever gonna be the case, but ... What was the investigative work that happened in the first 48 hours, without obviously going into too much detail to put the case in jeopardy?

H: Well, I think you secure the scene, you start doing whatever you can; talk to everybody in the area, we have the crime scene investigators there. Just basically the steps that you would do. Collecting videos throughout the areas, doing things like that. Just, you know, from Ground Zero. That's what you would do in any case, you know.... start talking to people, and get out knocking on doors. We call that an area canvass, so because it's a rural area we had to kind of stretch that out a little bit, and so we did maybe a general area canvass initially and maybe a day or two later we spread that out, come back, make sure. 'Cuz it was February so there was still people on vacation or winter "snowbirds" they call them, and so there were still some houses that we didn't make contact right away, so... But we have now, I mean we continue to do that and now six months later we're still getting new tips on people, so we're following up on those. But also, we have a group of detectives who are assigned to go back to make sure we didn't miss anything, so we re-review things and so we're taking it very serious and we're not gonna let anything slip through the cracks. That's your biggest fear, I think, when you're doing an investigation is something might slip through the cracks and we're not gonna let that happen. We have a team of people that keep going back, reviewing and we're getting there. We're working on it harder than ever and we're gonna continue to work hard.

[stopping at 5.32 for now]
[my fingers are totally numb, which means I constantly hit the wrong keys, so I have to take a break. Will continue as soon as I can]
=============================
PART 2:
A: [5.34] When the people come forward that mentioned, you know, because that sketch behind you is pretty detailed, like we said, and the guy that did it is obviously unbelievably talented because he maybe didn't have a bunch of information but it's unbelievable what they could come up with, right, and make it into this composite sketch that could end up helping crack the case. But, when did those people come forward that said that they saw him possibly near the trail?

H: Well, that's a good question. It's actually compiled, it's not just from one person, so we've had several people say that they saw the person that we identified through the video that we obtained off of Liberty's phone. And we put that out so once people saw that photo then they said "oh I saw that guy; I saw that guy." We have to determine 'is that the guy they saw' first of all, and if it is then let's work together. So, we were getting calls that night, and throughout the last couple months. Some people don't watch the news. Some people don't really follow what's going on . So some of them were sooner-than-later, um. But then we took our time with that. We took our time, we interviewed the composite drawing itself took probably 2/12 to 3 weeks, because we wanted to make sure ourselves that it was exactly right at the people had recalled that. So, um, we have been, I think, getting better tips. Obviously the first photo is pretty hard to see. It's pixelated pretty bad, and this is pretty detailed. We want to make sure that people know this might not look exactly like the person, but it's gonna have similar facial features. So, this is just what the person or persons that we've interviewed over the last several months believe this is what this guy looked like. There's four of us in this room right now. If somebody walked into this room for 30 seconds and left, we'd all have different drawings, but I think the facial features and the major identifiers we would all get right. So, that's what we're hoping, that this gives us a little more guidance, a little more not-as-vague. And it's helping. We are getting better tips. We're still getting some not-so-good tips, I would say. But we're getting a little better tips from this composite drawing.

A: [7.45]. is it a few people kind of , possibly that saw him, or there was more than a couple that called in, right?



H: Yeah. There's ... I would say that's a good statement, there's more than a few that said they saw him. Now, I guess we have to determine there was other people on that trail, or they actually seen that guy is responsible for this, or they seen somebody else that was just out there walking.

A: In time-frame-wise, how long do you think he was out there that day, and have you just kind of stopped by, tried to find if he was planning this, tried to find somebody that was walking off the trail and thought 'hey, this would be a good target", or was he just out there for a little bit?

H: I wish I could tell you that. I have theories, but we, you know, the evidence is pretty... like I said, the evidence doesn't really indicate how long or if he was a traveler or local, and some of that we just speculate on. We can't say he is or isn't. But we just have to go off that evidence that we have; the composite drawing, the video, the audio, and just continue to rely on the community. I still believe somebody knows, somebody knows what happened. For whatever reason, they won't come forward, and we wish they would, obviously.... because this person's probably gonna do this again and I'd hate for that to happen to you or your loved ones. That's the message that I want to get out to the public, that if you do know, for sure you need to let us know so we can possibly stop this from happening again to your daughter, or your mother, or sister, or anybody. Could be brother or father as well, so...
[numb finger break time]

A: [9.21] And personality traits in a person like this, and that's I think what people have thought about before and maybe him, if there was just one person, is this the guy that was able to get both of these little girls in the woods and do these, you know, brutally murder them, do you think he possibly has done this before?

H: Uh, he could be, you know, that's, again, just kind of our theory or speculation, we have no evidence that he's done it again. But we do keep that in mind. We do check with other states to see if they have anything close; and obviously the case in Iowa is the closest; but they don't even know the cause of death in that one because they didn't find the victims until later. So, it's hard to compare. But it is similar, but, so, we have taken that into consideration as well, and we have investigated that. We've been in contact with Iowa and they have been in contact with us, and we've discussed that, but nothing else seems to be popping up around the nation that is similar to this. But that doesn't mean he is gonna kill everybody the same way every time, so (shrugs), we don't know.

A: When you walked down and I walked through, that was private property right where the bodies were found. Looking at it logistically from where they were on the bridge and to where their bodies were found, I know we talked about the terrain in the past. I know it's not an easy thing to navigate. Usually you might have to be familiar with the area. I mean, would it have been difficult for the girls to from where they were on the bridge to where they were found?

H: [10:49] Yeah. Absolutely. I think it would be difficult, obviously. They have to go through some pretty steep terrain in a wooded area, sticker bushes and things like that, so it's uh ... and then to cross the creek. The creek, and obviously it's February, it's probably not the warmest . The weather was a warm day that day, but still the water temperature is probably cooler than the air temperature. So yeah, it would have been difficult for .... I mean, I don't think anybody, say on a walk, would walk that way.

A: Walking back that way, obviously I wasn't even there when you guys found all these horrible things at the crime scene. But even just walking through the area you get like a eerie feeling, almost feel sick to your stomach because you think about what Abby & Libby went through, and the families are going through, and the fact that he's still out there. You had to go to the crime scene, and like, I mean you covered, I'm sure, dozens of murder cases but this has probably been one of the hardest for you, having kids, as well. I mean, did you get a sick feeling as soon as you had to go there?

H: Oh yeah. I think everybody -- obviously when two young girls are brutally murdered and you are there to investigate it and see what you have to see and do what you have to do, you become emotionally tied to it and you think about your family and friends. But I think what keeps me going is I try ..... I've said this a million times.... you try to put yourself in these families' shoes and you just can't do it. I can't imagine what they are going through. So I try to put my emotions aside and focus on the evidence and focus on how can we bring justice for Abby & Libby, and for the families. I mean, is that gonna do it if we make an arrest? I think it will help; like anything can bring them back, obviously. I don't think anything can ever make things like they were before the 13th. It's never gonna happen. But we want to try and bring some closure to the families for the girls. And so, even though we are all trained professionals and we've done this many times, it's still hard, it's still hard to shut your brain off at night and go visit with your grandkids or visit with you family and not think about it constantly. So it's difficult, but you know, we are here for a reason. We're here to find out who did this, and that's what we have to keep telling ourselves and keep being re-motivated and motivated to do that. And that's what we're gonna do.

[13.13]
Part 3 starts at 13.13
A: That area where the bodies were found, too, when you guys went down there, because you guys kept that crime tape up for awhile, you were still going back down there and re-tracing the steps and looking for anything, that, you know, you might have needed to go back, you know, to the scene to check out.... so when you went back down there, so that area that was taped off, that area was where bodies were found, right in that circular, that taped off place?

H: Yes.

A: So that's where when we walked down there, obviously all that investigative work had been done and they had taken away any evidence they had found. Was there a decent amount of evidence found at the scene?

H: Oh, I think so. I think, uh, you know, without getting into detail, I think, like I said, we don't have a lot of evidence, but we do have more than, you know, maybe your normal crime scene. We have evidence there that we're processing daily and working on, and still, yeah it's been six months but there is still different techniques you can use and things like that. I'm not a lab person, so I can't talk in lab language, but I'm in contact with them weekly, if not daily, and they are telling us we're still doing this, we're still working on things. Yeah, it's hard to say without jeopardizing the integrity of rthe invesrtigation how much evidence we had, because there's three people, in my opinion, maybe more, but at least three people that know what happened, knew what happened that day, and two of them are dead. So that one person knows the details of the crime. That's why we don't like to talk about the details or what we found or what we didn't find, because when we do get that person, when we do talk to them, they are the only ones that are gonna know the details for this. And that's another reason why we don't like FB putting false information out because then people believe that and then they tip off of those details that are false, and it just kind of impedes our investigartion a little bit.

A: [15.11] Was there DNA evidence found at the scene.

H: Well, yeah. Obviously that's a tricky question nobody wants to answer. You know, I think in every crime scene you have, you're gonna have DNA. You're gonna have the victim's DNA, you're gonna probably have victim's family's DNA. You know touch DNA is very powerful, so if I touch your shirt today, you know that DNA could still be there for weeks, if not months. So we're still working on identifying whose all DNA we have there, and we will continue to do that until we determine who all's DNA is at the scene.

A: so, this guy, you know, thinks he possibly got away with this, and that's one of the things, too, I know you guys are waiting, possibly he could start talking about it to people, because that's happened in other cases, they think 'ope, I got away with it' and then they go start trying brag about it, which is something you guys are following up on every day. But if he thinks he got away with it and thinks he cleaned up the scene, there still could possibly be something that he left behind?

H: Absolutely. so, yeah.

A: That's powerful, though, for the community to know too, because they were like that's, like I know you mentioned that's the question that nobody really wanted to get too much into when we talked to the Sheriff and things, but you mentioned any DNA, and DNA's from the girls, DNA is at the scene just from other things. But that's important that you guys are running that through and working with the lab. um, and then, is there anything that happened within that first 48 hours when you stepped in, too. Like, you volunteered immediately to have Indiana State Police come in to help out the Sheriff's department. Is there anything you think that could have been done differently that could have put the case in jeopardy in the beginning stages?

H: Absolutely. I think, you know, when you Monday morning quarterback, there are things you could have possibly done a little better or quicker now. Is there anything we did or didn't do that jeopardized this case? No. I think that with the FBI and the County and the State, all the resources that we have used, there's really nothing that we could have done more. But, I'm my own worst critic, so is there anything we couuld have done better? Yeah. That's every case. But we continue to learn from that and again, like I said, we didn't do anything or not do anything to jeopardize the case, but are ther things that we could do better? Yeah. So, you know, with have Jay Harper with the State Police Investigator, we have Tim McKindle, also, with the State Police Lead Investigator, and my job is to kind of manage this, so I have been trying to manage this from Day One, with the County, with the FBI, so that's an obstacle in itself, trying to manage something this big, but we've had plenty of guidance from all of our supervisors and such a great team; I mean, we obviously have gotten along with Carroll County pretty well and unfortunately, through other instances happen because life doesn't stop, so, unfortunately, we still get major crime scenes that they have to assist with here. And manpower issues, I mean we all have them. The county is short-handed, the State Police are short-handed, the FBI, everybody needs more. So if you are out there, apply for the State Police next time, we definitely need the help.

A: [18.33] you need help, yeah, get some new recruits. Umm, tell me, with the audio, which we heard. I remember the first time that was played at the press conference and that was bone-chilling to know you are going to be able to hear this person's voice, even though it was just that tiny clip. But what he was saying gave away, you know, some clues as well, but what has that been able to do for the case, having that voice out there?

H: I think it's helped a lot. Obviously, it's a distinctive voice. We've been getting a lot of tips off of that. unfortunately, the people that people think it is, we've been able to eliminate them. Not all of them, but most of them, we can eliminate through checking records and things like that. So, I think it's helped quite a bit. I think as we get into this deeper, it's gonna help us even more-so.

A: Is there more audio that was found on Libby's phone?

H: Yes.

A: Is that something that would be released?

H: Not at this point. We've discussed it and at this point we don't think it will help the investigation. At this time it doesn't appear to be anything more than some discussion between the girls and things like that. So, we've only released a portion of it. There's some others that we think could help us, but again, protecting the integrity of the investigation is the key here. We can't release everything we have, because there's only certain people that know the details. If we release everything then we get into possible false confessions and people over-exaggerating and embellishing things put on FB like we already battle with. So, we can only give so much.

A: The FB thing, I know that's been a, that's had a huge effect on the family. I mean, that's like, you know, probably a few years ago if this case had happened, or a decade ago, that wouldn't even have been a thing. Has that interfered with the case?

H: Oh absolutely. I talked to some of the older investigators, they didn't have to deal with that. When I talk about some of the stresses about social media. I've had a tip on me from interviewing with other stations. Absolutely. We've had tips on other police officers for whatever reason. We've had people that do their blogs that put out false information, and then if I tell them that's false and then they embellish and tell people that I'm giving out details of the case, which we are not. I will try to squash any rumors that people call and ask about, without jeopardizing the integrity of the investigation. But yeah, you know, again, I can't imagine what the family is going through just because of the incident, but now you have social media with all these rumors and false implications that i'ts just got to be driving them crazy. I talk tot the family quite a bit and try to tell them, you know, don't believe everything you hear on social media. I think it could be positive, I think. But what I would say is, instead of posting it on FB, call us before and let us investigate it because once you put it out there and it is false, then it interferes with our investigation and it bogs us down, because people start tipping off of false information, and we follow up on every tip. So, I think social media is a challenge for us, and we're trying to utilize it to teh best of our abilities, but it is definitely something that interferes with our investigations at times.
A: [22.04] How often do you listen to the audio clip. I mean, you probably listen to the full one, but is that something that kind of gives you .... when you're feeling down or you're like 'all right, here I am six months later and we have all these people working the case, you put, like, your whole life has been pretty much been consumed by this, so I mean, when you try to listen to that guy's voice again and look at that picture, does that kind of give you more momentum to be like, 'I'm gonna find you."?

H: I think that every time I close my eyes I hear the audio and I see the picture, I don't have to listen to it because I have listened to it a million times. But yeah, it definitely re-motivates us to think about that. So yeah, it's there

A: Do you think he thinKs he got away with it"

H: Oh yeah. I think probably. But he didn't. We'll catch him. I mean, like I said, it's not from lack of effort and we will continue to put all the effort that we have available and utilize all the resources that we have until we catch the monster that's responsible for this.

A: This is something that I wanted to ask about the audio clip. You mentioned that there's discussions and things like that. Can you say if the recording was going when thE murder happened?

H: I would say that I can't divulge that, just to protect the integrity of the investigation.

A: Resources you said you had never seen so many resources, FBI, ATF, local, State, Federal authorities, all coming in. I mean, you had all those people coming from Quantico and tried to help with the behavioral analysis, and that was also interesting in the beginning. Did that help, did that bring you guys maybe to a stage where you think you kind of know more about his guy?

H: Well, I think so. You know, the FBI has brought their behavioral analysis unit, they gave us more information. You know. We utilized social media, people just looking at social media. Like I said, it's bad, but we can also gather a lot of information about people from the social media, or digital media recovery specialist that, you know, would get all the information off of computers for us, and cell phones and, yeah. It's just a ton of resources that we were able to utilize through State, Local, and Federal.

A: [24.16] Was her cell phone, I mean, are you surprised he didn't try to take cell phone or take any evidence with him?

H: Was I surprised that ....?

A: That he didn't try to take it? I mean, you would think that if that had had, maybe he didn't know that they were recording, but ...

H: Yeah.

A: Do you believe that?

H: You know, I don't know. Nothing surprises me any more after doing this job for awhile, but who knows what he was thinking or what he knew. You know, we don't know that.

A: But it was all pretty, like, you didn't have to go searching through the woods, all that stuff was kind of let in that area, right?

H: ahh, that's a fair statement, the general area.

A: Then, going to tips, you've had thousands of tips, thousands of dollars in reward money. How many people have you guys interviewed?

H: Well, I would say probably thousands of people. Depends on what you consider an interview. A lot of people may say that's a little smaller, but we did an area canvass, so we interviewed probably 600 people that were driving through the area, we'd stop, talk to them. We've contacted numerous people to talk to them and I would consider those interviews. As far as formal, you know, if you're audio/videoing somebody, is that a formal interview? Probably four or five hundred-ish. But we have talked to thousands of people on this case.

A: The last thing. Do you think that he was from Delphi?

H: You know, I really don't know. I think for obvious reasons I think he had to know the area. Was he from here, visiting, or been here.... I mean, I don't know. But you mentioned earlier the train and that area taht this incident occurred, for somebody just to go out there and be able to do what he did and leave, you would think he either got real lucky and walked the right way to get out with nobody seeing him, or drove or flew, who knows how he left the scene, or he knew the area.

A: Was a weapon left at the scene?

H: uhh, I don't want to answer that at this time, so....

A: Anything else you want to add, or is that pretty much everything?

H: Oh, I think so. I think that's it

[a man out of the scene is asking a question] For the image to be captured on the phone, was there prior video of the girls together before that, or do you think they felt danger from this person and that is why she recorded that clip of him?

H: Both. There were pictures of ... they went out there to take pictures on the bridge, and there was pictures and video, but it appeared that, and this has been said before, that Liberty had enough senses to realize that something wasn't right and she started that video because she felt uncomfortable, both girls were uncomfortable. And I think that's why. But they were out there taking pictures with the phone and videos.

A: Is the clip like several minutes long?

H: I don't know exactly how long it is, but .... (He seems "uncomfortable", for lack of a better description)

A: Did she shut it off, or was it just ....

H: uh, I don't want to talk about how that ... right now.

A: OK, that's fine. sorry

[that's the end]

27-minute video interview 8/14/2017, Det. Holeman, near bottom of page, two sources (I acutally used the second):
http://fox59.com/2017/08/14/lead-de...ave-more-audio-from-teens-phone-dna-evidence/
https://player.ooyala.com/static/v4...5267225247&pcode=A5YjUyOju0deP9y9BK28b-61JYT5
Continuing from [13.13]
A= Alexis McAdams H=Det. Holeman
====
Click to expand...

Adding original source links for @Spellbound ‘s transcriptions:

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #65
Post 186

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #65
Post 244
 
Link courtesy of @gregjrichards:

If he is found I'll sleep better knowing he can’t hurt anyone else': Heartbroken mother of teen murdered in 2017 by Delphi railroad bridge killer caught on Snapchat opens up about her agony as the hunt for her daughter's killer continues

Mother of Delphi railroad bridge murder victim opens up about investigation | Daily Mail Online
29 Sep 2019

19072962-7517539-image-a-23_1569764648965.jpg


+13
A map showing the investigation into the girls' disappearance and body recovery

 
margarita25 said:
Link courtesy of @gregjrichards:

If he is found I'll sleep better knowing he can’t hurt anyone else': Heartbroken mother of teen murdered in 2017 by Delphi railroad bridge killer caught on Snapchat opens up about her agony as the hunt for her daughter's killer continues

Mother of Delphi railroad bridge murder victim opens up about investigation | Daily Mail Online
29 Sep 2019

19072962-7517539-image-a-23_1569764648965.jpg


+13
A map showing the investigation into the girls' disappearance and body recovery
Click to expand...

Abby’s mom:

'I went out with a search party and they used flashlights to look in the river that ran under the bridge. I told them: "We are not looking for bodies, we are looking for two grounded little girls."'

This reflects the fact that no one, not even Abby’s mom, was expecting foul play.
 
Investigators ‘still working hard’ 6 months after releasing new sketch of Delphi murder suspect

It’s been 6 months since a shocking update in the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German.....Since then, investigators said they have received roughly 3,000 additional tips.

State Police said they are getting the information they have been looking for. Detectives still need that one good tip to solve this case.....

Sgt. Riley said some tips have been about a car found abandoned near the trails on the day the girls went missing. On Thursday, he said he could not give us any details about what information investigators have on it.
 
“Anna said she was shocked when she heard about ISP’s new direction in the case. In April, investigators also released video and an extended audio clip of that accused killer. Detectives believe they are looking for someone who lives in Delphi or used to live in the city.

“It seemed so far fetch but it has always gone back to this is closer to home than any of us ever cared for,” she said.”

Investigators ‘still working hard’ 6 months after releasing new sketch of Delphi murder suspect
Oct 25, 2019
 
Why have police not found man who teens filmed before their murder?

This is an article from Sept 2019. It mentions the girls being found side by side and covered in undergrowth.


"Their bodies were hidden in the undergrowth on a remote hiking trail near their hometown of Delphi, Indiana, in the American Midwest.



They had been placed alongside one another, and although police have not released any details of the cause of death, it was clear they had been murdered.

Abby and Libby’s deaths reverberated through the small town, because it was unlikely that anyone other than a local would have known about the track the girls were walking on that day."
 
ISP: "We're going to track them down"
Posted: 11:26 PM, Feb 14, 2017
Updated: 6:38 AM, Feb 16, 201

“Delphi Community Schools sent a letter home on Tuesday, offering bus rides to all students in the community, no matter where they live.

“We will be providing transportation to all students to and from school. We feel that in the best interest and safety of the students, a regular schedule is best.””
 
Who Killed Abby and Libby? 'Mindhunter' John Douglas Offers Insight Into Delphi Murders
May 15, 2019

“Former FBI Special Agent John Douglas, aka the Mindhunter, told Inside Edition the audio, of which an extended clip was only recently released, may hold a vital clue, specifically the use of the word "guys."

"Guys says to me that maybe he may know these victims," said Douglas. "Or it's a person ... someone who has interaction with children."

He added that the person who killed the two likely has some kind of "criminal history."

"You don't wake up one day and commit a double homicide like this," he said. "There has to be some kind of trail."

Douglas, who inspired Jonathan Groff's character on the Netflix series "Mindhunter," also addressed the recent, and chilling, suggestion by police that the killer might have been present at a news conferencelast month in which the extended clip was released, together with the video of the suspect and a new police sketch.

"That tactic, if they're going to do it, they should have done it two years ago," Douglas said. "They should also be checking and looking to see people who were here, now they came up with some reason to leave the area."
 
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