GUILTY IN - Amanda Blackburn, 28, pregnant, murdered, Indianapolis, 10 Nov 2015 #4

[MaxManning]

I agree with you completely OBE. I've thought about this a LOT and come to the same conclusions, whether it's a case on WS or something on a national or international level. The desire for a "reason" reflects our normal human desire to be safe, whether it's a home invasion, a rape, a murder or a terrorist attack. If we can find something, anything that "explains" why it happened, we feel we can take precautions and it won't happen to us.

In this case, I think the only reason people are struggling so much is because they have an alternative theory that is not based on real evidence.

If amanda was a single woman and this same thing happened, I am relatively positive that there'd be very little thought put to most of this. Many are looking for evidence to tie to an alternative theory.

I honestly don't see anything implausible about what happened given the people that did it. Doesn't mean an alternative theory couldn't have been the case, but none of what we know about what happened would be the reason I'd be investigating alternative theories.

JMHO

 

[bessie]

We have never heard drugs were involved have we? That's something being assumed.

Re the early morning rash of burglaries that is the first thing that is so strange to me. I know a couple of appraisers and they always go into the ghetto areas early in the morning because most folks that don't work are sleeping then. A bit safer for the appraising work.

Then they go into a home close by with I think a mother and a couple of daughters sleeping and steal only a car.

They didn't steal only a car. They took a Macbook laptop and the resident's purse, as well. p. 12 of the affidavit

ETA: How does "going into the ghetto area" relate here?

 

[bessie]

I completely disagree. If someone has a gun, and whoever you are pointing that gun at tries to take it from you, I can see someone being many times more likely to shoot whoever they are struggling with. People don't just shoot once, hope everything is ok and then shoot again. Someone in a struggle with a gun is very likely to unload multiple shots to stop someone from hitting them or whatever. You speak of datapoints, but as I have said, if you are in a situation like a burglary where you have a gun and are attacked by your victim - you will likely shoot them in that situation. In any struggle for a gun, I'm sure the probability for one of the two struggling getting shot is extraordinarily high.

It doesn't take someone who WANTS to murder. It just takes a situation for calls for that as a means of self preservation. That is what I was speaking to, and is why I use the word "potential".

Tries to take it from you, or swings at you to push away you or the gun.

I have an idea that from the beginning, AB's hands were tied with the earphones, and she was lying on her right side. That's why she was hit on the left side of the face, and why LT left her inside alone momentarily while he went to the car. Alternatively, she was bound with duct tap, and the earphones fell out of LT's pocket. I lean toward the earphones.

I also have a feeling that while frick and frack were at the second ATM, LT decided he'd take advantage of the situation, and sexually assault AB. As he was tugging at her panties or shirt, she wrestled her left hand free, swung at him, raising her upper body somewhat, and he shot into her extended lower left arm. In the very next instant, as her left arm fell over her body to the right, he fired off the second shot in a downard angle from the left side. That's why the bullet entered and exited her upper back. In other words, it travelled sideways through her upper back, exited and hit the bottom of the stairs.

The first two were reflex shots. The third and mortal shot was much more deliberate, imo.
JMO

 

[bessie]

We have never heard drugs were involved have we? That's something being assumed.

Re the early morning rash of burglaries that is the first thing that is so strange to me. I know a couple of appraisers and they always go into the ghetto areas early in the morning because most folks that don't work are sleeping then. A bit safer for the appraising work.

Then they go into a home close by with I think a mother and a couple of daughters sleeping and steal only a car.

Drive quite a distance from that first house to enter a home where the occupants are gone at 5am..out of town. Load up tv's and laptops. Eat oranges and no hurry.

Then go into Amanda's home knock her tooth out, remove her clothing and shoot her three times. Take her Debit card.

Those are three completely different burglaries by the same goons.

Why so different? Why so violent with Amanda?

From what I read early on Davey and Amanda did their early morning devotions and with him leaving to go to the gym and the baby still sleeping I would think she would be in a peaceful mood.

We know she saw the good in everybody and I don't see her violantly attacking LT. I would think she would want to 'save' him. Of course she was pregnant and had a tiny one in the bedroom upstairs so maybe that mother tigress came out of nowhere.

Also something I think about is Amanda was a restorer of furniture and her husband just a pastor at a small church I think about 100 members. They had no money to speak of. She worked in her garage fixing broken things.

Whatever made them think there would be $400 in the account??? When we were young and raising our children we would be lucky to have $40 bucks in an account.

Some way I think there is a connection. Might be through the church or the gym or somebody they counseled. Might be somebody in the neighborhoods nephew or cousin. Somebody bad knew something about the Blackburns. I think somebody also knew that house two doors away had owners out of town and that's why they took their time. MOO

Not quite. First burglary, resident asleep. They disarm her by removing her phone. She poses no threat. Still, CI says LT wanted to kill her. The other two talk him out of it.

Second burglary, moot. No one's home.

Third burglary, not the same three goons. One "goon" alone with the victim. One young, impulsive, stupid, lone jackass, daring and green, because he hasn't done time like the other two. Not that they were a whole lot smarter, but smart enough to know they didn't want any part of murder. JMO

Now, why did LT leave the neighbor's home and walk PAST AB's house to be seen 2-3 doors to the RIGHT of 2812 before he entered? If AB was a target, why not walk directly to her house?

ETA: Your post gave me an idea that might have been discussed already. AB refinished old furniture. How did she acquire the pieces? I'm sure she picked some up. But I wonder if any pieces were delivered. I don't believe AB was a target in the sense many do right now. Yet, I wouldn't rule out a connection to the neighborhood by a worker of some sort, as I've said before, yard worker, repairman...delivery guy?

 

[DropthePuck]

.
ETA: Your post gave me an idea that might have been discussed already. AB refinished old furniture. How did she acquire the pieces? I'm sure she picked some up. But I wonder if any pieces were delivered. I don't believe AB was a target in the sense many do right now. Yet, I wouldn't rule out a connection to the neighborhood by a worker of some sort, as I've said before, yard worker, repairman...delivery guy?

I believe she got a lot of her pieces at garage sales. DB talked in one of his interviews how Saturday mornings were devoted to father/son time with Weston while Amanda went to garage sales.

 

[jjenny]

snipped for focus.

Hm, I respectfully disagree with this part. Which is part of why I've been perplexed by motive. I just don't see murder (or opportunistic rape, but primary murder) as a natural understandable escalation of burglary. Takes a "special" kind of someone to shoot a person 3 times, once in the head. Not the same MO as previous datapoints. I will agree though that there is a point at which any murderer does it for the first time. Just don't agree that anyone who would burglarize would be inclined to murder under the right circumstances.



I totally missed this. Do you know where this was mentioned?

Burglars go into homes and take things that don't belong to them. And if the owner happens to be at home, what exactly is going to be a "natural" consequence of burglary?

 

[MJPeony]

Burglars go into homes and take things that don't belong to them. And if the owner happens to be at home, what exactly is going to be a "natural" consequence of burglary?

I live in an area that unfortunately sees it's fair share of home invasions. Of these, there have been cases of the occupants being home on multiple occasions. Only one case that I know of in the past 8 years has involved someone being shot. In the others, the burglars run. In fact, there was such a case on my very street last month. Occupants saw him, he ran. Pretty common IMO.

I think it's an enormous leap, and inaccurate, to profile a home burglar as someone who would naturally escalate to murder if encountering a home occupant. All my humble opinion.

In this case with AB, it appears these guys were the type that quickly escalated. That can happen, yes.

 

[MJPeony]

.....You speak of datapoints, but as I have said, if you are in a situation like a burglary where you have a gun and are attacked by your victim - you will likely shoot them in that situation. In any struggle for a gun, I'm sure the probability for one of the two struggling getting shot is extraordinarily high.

It doesn't take someone who WANTS to murder. It just takes a situation for calls for that as a means of self preservation. That is what I was speaking to, and is why I use the word "potential".

MaxManning- I must have misunderstood your words then. I didn't realize you were only referring to burglars who armed themselves with guns. I took "ANYONE" in caps and "who has the morals to even burglarize" to mean anyone who even burglarizes. If you are talking about burglars who specifically are carrying guns and are encountered by a fighting victim would "potentially" escalate to murder, then I would agree.

 

[MJPeony]

In this case, I think the only reason people are struggling so much is because they have an alternative theory that is not based on real evidence.

If amanda was a single woman and this same thing happened, I am relatively positive that there'd be very little thought put to most of this. Many are looking for evidence to tie to an alternative theory.

I honestly don't see anything implausible about what happened given the people that did it. Doesn't mean an alternative theory couldn't have been the case, but none of what we know about what happened would be the reason I'd be investigating alternative theories.

JMHO

Speaking for myself- as I am clearly one of the people you are referring to who is struggling with making sense of this crime (you say "the only reason people", not "some people")- I do think there could be alternate theories other than 3 young drugged up, burglary-loving kids randomly walked into AB's house and killing a woman by shooting her three times, just b/c that's what they do. That is clearly the working theory and likely what happened, but it doesn't have to mean it makes sense to me and that I have nefarious motives in trying to come up with a motive (they could have known her, they could have known it was a woman in there alone and wanted to rape her, they could have known people connected to her, etc). It certainly doesn't mean I just like to come up with theories that are not based on evidence. A lot of things posted are trying to fill in gaps. I am not directly implying anything. I've been genuinely stumped and want to make it all fit. My personal goal is to "make sense" of the incomplete information the public has been given and I personally have a hard time wrapping my head around a random crime being so brutal under the circumstances (early am, small woman, etc). Doesn't mean I can't accept it if that's what it was.

I've also stated that I agreed with Lillibet's theory posted here yesterday- that people often search for understandable reasons behind seemingly random crime b/c it would help them feel safer themselves. I've said here on this forum that is certainly true for me. So I am not one of those people who only is looking for non-evidence-based theories just to play into one theory. I personally would like the pieces of the evidence we've been given to line up in my mind. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

It does not mean I am only floating one accusatory theory. It means I'm brainstorming on WS, how this could have happened. I'd like to understand the criminal mind better. I think that's natural for a person who posts on WS. I speak for myself here. But would hope that my fellow WS'ers wouldn't judge a person for wanting to make sense of a crime. Perhaps I'm just slow.

I'm over-and-out as it pertains to asking about motive. It appears to be creating a significant deal of misunderstanding and it's hard to brainstorm.

 

[Cardinal47]

They didn't steal only a car. They took a Macbook laptop and the resident's purse, as well. p. 12 of the affidavit

ETA: How does "going into the ghetto area" relate here?

Most gang members and occupants of ghetto areas are asleep in the early morning. Most of the crimes they commit occur late at night under cover of darkness. They are all worn out from partying, drugging and killing each other come morning.

So I find this three hits in the early morning unusual.

http://www.asecurelife.com/security-infographic/

I thought this was interesting reading so I brought some of the report over for those that would like to read it.



What Types of Homes do Burglars Strike Most?

Burglaries are most likely to occur in single family homes that are located in the middle of a block. Burglars are not as likely to burglarize corner homes and two story single family homes as they are to strike single story homes.

Burglary Statistics by Time of Day

The majority of home burglaries take place between 10am and 3pm. These are the times when most homeowners are at work and their children are at school, leaving burglars more time to scout around vacant homes for items of worth. There are also fewer neighbors around to catch them in the act. During 2010, 821,897 burglaries took place during daylight hours, while night-time break ins were almost 50% fewer (443,717 burglaries took place at night).

Note by me; Early Morning is unusual.

How Long Will a Burglar Spend in a Home?

The average burglar will only spend between 8 to 12 minutes inside the home. The aim of any burglar is to get in and out of the home with as much goods as possible in as little time as possible in order to avoid getting caught.

What Do Burglars Steal During Burglaries?

It makes sense that burglars are more likely to steal items that are easy to carry so that they can load up as many items as possible and make a quick getaway. It is also much easier for burglars to sell smaller stolen items than it is to steal large, big ticket items. In 2010, over $13 billion USD of property was stolen in home burglaries across the nation. Unfortunately for homeowners, only 21% of property that was stolen was actually recovered.

 

[Cardinal47]

Speaking for myself- as I am clearly one of the people you are referring to who is struggling with making sense of this crime (you say "the only reason people", not "some people")- I do think there could be alternate theories other than 3 young drugged up, burglary-loving kids randomly walked into AB's house and killing a woman by shooting her three times, just b/c that's what they do. That is clearly the working theory and likely what happened, but it doesn't have to mean it makes sense to me and that I have nefarious motives in trying to come up with a motive (they could have known her, they could have known it was a woman in there alone and wanted to rape her, they could have known people connected to her, etc). It certainly doesn't mean I just like to come up with theories that are not based on evidence. A lot of things posted are trying to fill in gaps. I am not directly implying anything. I've been genuinely stumped and want to make it all fit. My personal goal is to "make sense" of the incomplete information the public has been given and I personally have a hard time wrapping my head around a random crime being so brutal under the circumstances (early am, small woman, etc). Doesn't mean I can't accept it if that's what it was.

I've also stated that I agreed with Lillibet's theory posted here yesterday- that people often search for understandable reasons behind seemingly random crime b/c it would help them feel safer themselves. I've said here on this forum that is certainly true for me. So I am not one of those people who only is looking for non-evidence-based theories just to play into one theory. I personally would like the pieces of the evidence we've been given to line up in my mind. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

It does not mean I am only floating one accusatory theory. It means I'm brainstorming on WS, how this could have happened. I'd like to understand the criminal mind better. I think that's natural for a person who posts on WS. I speak for myself here. But would hope that my fellow WS'ers wouldn't judge a person for wanting to make sense of a crime. Perhaps I'm just slow.

I'm over-and-out as it pertains to asking about motive. It appears to be creating a significant deal of misunderstanding and it's hard to brainstorm.

Please don't leave. I think we need those that think outside the box and ask question we all want answers too.

I don't see this burglary/murder of Amanda as usual. Something is off.

Amanda was a God Loving Christian young lady. She was not Annie Oakley sitting there ready to fight.

If what we read is true she and Davey would have done their morning devotions just before this all happened.

She was in a state of grace with her baby boy upstairs and a baby in her womb.

Why oh why did they hit her so hard her tooth came out , take off her clothing and shoot her three times. Why?

 

[pappa rob]

Speaking for myself- as I am clearly one of the people you are referring to who is struggling with making sense of this crime (you say "the only reason people", not "some people")- I do think there could be alternate theories other than 3 young drugged up, burglary-loving kids randomly walked into AB's house and killing a woman by shooting her three times, just b/c that's what they do. That is clearly the working theory and likely what happened, but it doesn't have to mean it makes sense to me and that I have nefarious motives in trying to come up with a motive (they could have known her, they could have known it was a woman in there alone and wanted to rape her, they could have known people connected to her, etc). It certainly doesn't mean I just like to come up with theories that are not based on evidence. A lot of things posted are trying to fill in gaps. I am not directly implying anything. I've been genuinely stumped and want to make it all fit. My personal goal is to "make sense" of the incomplete information the public has been given and I personally have a hard time wrapping my head around a random crime being so brutal under the circumstances (early am, small woman, etc). Doesn't mean I can't accept it if that's what it was.

I've also stated that I agreed with Lillibet's theory posted here yesterday- that people often search for understandable reasons behind seemingly random crime b/c it would help them feel safer themselves. I've said here on this forum that is certainly true for me. So I am not one of those people who only is looking for non-evidence-based theories just to play into one theory. I personally would like the pieces of the evidence we've been given to line up in my mind. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

It does not mean I am only floating one accusatory theory. It means I'm brainstorming on WS, how this could have happened. I'd like to understand the criminal mind better. I think that's natural for a person who posts on WS. I speak for myself here. But would hope that my fellow WS'ers wouldn't judge a person for wanting to make sense of a crime. Perhaps I'm just slow.

I'm over-and-out as it pertains to asking about motive. It appears to be creating a significant deal of misunderstanding and it's hard to brainstorm.

We need all the brain-stormers we can get. On the other hand I'm not sure I want to know the criminal mind, I want to know how to avoid the criminal altogether. The best way to solve any problem is to have different points of views, that way you can pick from the best. I love reading all the different points of views. Keep up your good work!

 

[jggordo]

When are these fools back in Court again?

Just wondering...Thanks

 

[bessie]

Most gang members and occupants of ghetto areas are asleep in the early morning. Most of the crimes they commit occur late at night under cover of darkness. They are all worn out from partying, drugging and killing each other come morning.

So I find this three hits in the early morning unusual.

http://www.asecurelife.com/security-infographic/

I thought this was interesting reading so I brought some of the report over for those that would like to read it.



What Types of Homes do Burglars Strike Most?

Burglaries are most likely to occur in single family homes that are located in the middle of a block. Burglars are not as likely to burglarize corner homes and two story single family homes as they are to strike single story homes.

Burglary Statistics by Time of Day

The majority of home burglaries take place between 10am and 3pm. These are the times when most homeowners are at work and their children are at school, leaving burglars more time to scout around vacant homes for items of worth. There are also fewer neighbors around to catch them in the act. During 2010, 821,897 burglaries took place during daylight hours, while night-time break ins were almost 50% fewer (443,717 burglaries took place at night).

Note by me; Early Morning is unusual.

How Long Will a Burglar Spend in a Home?

The average burglar will only spend between 8 to 12 minutes inside the home. The aim of any burglar is to get in and out of the home with as much goods as possible in as little time as possible in order to avoid getting caught.

What Do Burglars Steal During Burglaries?

It makes sense that burglars are more likely to steal items that are easy to carry so that they can load up as many items as possible and make a quick getaway. It is also much easier for burglars to sell smaller stolen items than it is to steal large, big ticket items. In 2010, over $13 billion USD of property was stolen in home burglaries across the nation. Unfortunately for homeowners, only 21% of property that was stolen was actually recovered.

These guys didnt live in a "ghetto area", that's why I was confused.

As for statistics, someone should teach them to the criminals. I've posted real life examples. Other members have shared their experiences. We could go on and on and on and on with examples of burglaries gone bad and senseless, violent home invasions that occur morning, noon and night. While statistics show what happens "most of the time", there's still a wide open expanse of other times when anything goes. Further, statistics often are provided by merchants who want to sell a product. For a more accurate picture, check crime logs. Those of us who live in large cities can just open our daily newspapers to see how criminals defy statitistics each and every day.

 

[bessie]

Speaking for myself- as I am clearly one of the people you are referring to who is struggling with making sense of this crime (you say "the only reason people", not "some people")- I do think there could be alternate theories other than 3 young drugged up, burglary-loving kids randomly walked into AB's house and killing a woman by shooting her three times, just b/c that's what they do. That is clearly the working theory and likely what happened, but it doesn't have to mean it makes sense to me and that I have nefarious motives in trying to come up with a motive (they could have known her, they could have known it was a woman in there alone and wanted to rape her, they could have known people connected to her, etc). It certainly doesn't mean I just like to come up with theories that are not based on evidence. A lot of things posted are trying to fill in gaps. I am not directly implying anything. I've been genuinely stumped and want to make it all fit. My personal goal is to "make sense" of the incomplete information the public has been given and I personally have a hard time wrapping my head around a random crime being so brutal under the circumstances (early am, small woman, etc). Doesn't mean I can't accept it if that's what it was.

I've also stated that I agreed with Lillibet's theory posted here yesterday- that people often search for understandable reasons behind seemingly random crime b/c it would help them feel safer themselves. I've said here on this forum that is certainly true for me. So I am not one of those people who only is looking for non-evidence-based theories just to play into one theory. I personally would like the pieces of the evidence we've been given to line up in my mind. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

It does not mean I am only floating one accusatory theory. It means I'm brainstorming on WS, how this could have happened. I'd like to understand the criminal mind better. I think that's natural for a person who posts on WS. I speak for myself here. But would hope that my fellow WS'ers wouldn't judge a person for wanting to make sense of a crime. Perhaps I'm just slow.

I'm over-and-out as it pertains to asking about motive. It appears to be creating a significant deal of misunderstanding and it's hard to brainstorm.

Brainstorming is great. Why not brainstorm the question I posed last night.

Why did LT leave the neighbor's home and walk PAST AB's house to be seen 2-3 doors to the RIGHT of 2812 before he entered? If AB was a target, why not walk directly to her house?

 

[bessie]

When are these fools back in Court again?

Just wondering...Thanks

Some time in January.

 

[DexterMorgan]

<modsnip>

Jmo. Because too many owners who lost money after the housing debacle; Have been renting out property in what use to be decent areas to folks on section 8 that sometimes have family members that will take advantage of the nice people in the surrounding area. Jmo.

 

[jjenny]

Please don't leave. I think we need those that think outside the box and ask question we all want answers too.

I don't see this burglary/murder of Amanda as usual. Something is off.

Amanda was a God Loving Christian young lady. She was not Annie Oakley sitting there ready to fight.

If what we read is true she and Davey would have done their morning devotions just before this all happened.

She was in a state of grace with her baby boy upstairs and a baby in her womb.

Why oh why did they hit her so hard her tooth came out , take off her clothing and shoot her three times. Why?

What does Amanda being God loving Christian lady has to do with anything? I fail to see why these burglars would care if she was God loving or not.
Burglars have killed people who didn't fight them, that is nothing new.

 

[jjenny]

I live in an area that unfortunately sees it's fair share of home invasions. Of these, there have been cases of the occupants being home on multiple occasions. Only one case that I know of in the past 8 years has involved someone being shot. In the others, the burglars run. In fact, there was such a case on my very street last month. Occupants saw him, he ran. Pretty common IMO.

I think it's an enormous leap, and inaccurate, to profile a home burglar as someone who would naturally escalate to murder if encountering a home occupant. All my humble opinion.

In this case with AB, it appears these guys were the type that quickly escalated. That can happen, yes.

Burglars might not always kill the occupants, but in quite a few cases, they have done so. Not so long ago, a brilliant medical student was shot and killed when three burglars went into his room and he was in the room.

 

[Cardinal47]

<modsnip>

Jmo. Because too many owners who lost money after the housing debacle; Have been renting out property in what use to be decent areas to folks on section 8 that sometimes have family members that will take advantage of the nice people in the surrounding area. Jmo.

I'll bet you dime to a dollar these hoods were living in Section 8 housing or residing with a relative that lives there.

It becomes a 'ghetto' because of the loud music, questionable comings and goings and burglaries of anything they can steal and take.

All of a sudden good folks just don't want to live there any more.

I AM familiar with big cities and the problems they pose. Detroit, Indianapolis, Gary and Chicago.

I could probably write a book.

Take a small city in Indiana. A big shot build a beautiful apartment complex with everything desirable to those that could afford such luxury.

Promising they would never allow school age children to live there as it was a concern the schools were not large enough for all the children that could live in such a complex.

Fast forward. The owner dies, it's sold and section 8 comes in with lots of welfare, drugs and gangs. Kids of all ages.

They almost tore that town up with burglaries, drugs, fights and over worked LE.

New owners came in and did a complete turn around and now it is once more a peaceful community.

If you would like to read about this community I offer this.

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/...cle_0192b1fc-a2e5-5417-8222-060740c3bd98.html

So ghetto's are all kinds of places. They are no longer Cabrini Green!