GUILTY IN - Amanda Blackburn, 28, pregnant, murdered, Indianapolis, 10 Nov 2015 #4

[Lilibet]

Brainstorming is great. Why not brainstorm the question I posed last night.

Why did LT leave the neighbor's home and walk PAST AB's house to be seen 2-3 doors to the RIGHT of 2812 before he entered? If AB was a target, why not walk directly to her house?

I'll take on this question. As I've made clear, I don't think Amanda was targeted, so it makes sense to me that he walked past the house to observe the neighborhood and pick another house to enter. For some reason, Amanda and Davey's house looked like a good prospect, so he walked back to it. We don't know how the 2-3 houses to the right looked at that time of day. Perhaps there appeared to be someone at home, whereas Amanda's looked quiet and empty.

I'm trying to imagine why he would have walked past if he was targeting AB. The only thing I can come up with is that he was trying to make it appear random to anyone watching. But that scenario really doesn't tie in for me with the rest of the morning's activities. When something is staged, as in the Teresa Sievers case, it is usually apparent to LE, even if the perps think they're being really clever. Attempting to be "clever" and stage a scene or an approach to a scene is not something I'd attribute to this bunch. JMO

 

[DexterMorgan]

What does Amanda being God loving Christian lady has to do with anything? I fail to see why these burglars would care if she was God loving or not.
Burglars have killed people who didn't fight them, that is nothing new.

Agree. But the poster seemed to only be bewildered by a loving devoted woman being killed by .....

But I 100 % agree with you. Because most home invaders and murderers do not discriminate at all. So this wasn't a religious payback crime. Nor a black on white crime.

It was simply a :"These People That Live In This Area Have Things That I Want To Steal Right Now" crime.

With a extra added dose of murder by the guy who was looney. Jmo

 

[Cardinal47]

Out of 12,664 burglaries 92 murder victims. 2011

A very small percent kill those they go to burglarize.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u....-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11

 

[Cardinal47]

Brainstorming is great. Why not brainstorm the question I posed last night.

Why did LT leave the neighbor's home and walk PAST AB's house to be seen 2-3 doors to the RIGHT of 2812 before he entered? If AB was a target, why not walk directly to her house?

I'll take a shot at this one. Day was dawning and neighbors were waking up. Letting pets out and getting their morning paper.

Perhaps the time wasn't right on the first pass by. Waited a few minutes and turned around. Back to AB's home.

 

[Cardinal47]

What does Amanda being God loving Christian lady has to do with anything? I fail to see why these burglars would care if she was God loving or not.
Burglars have killed people who didn't fight them, that is nothing new.

I hope I explain this right. I think Amanda was not a fighter type of person. She was a peaceful person.

I think she would have done or given anything to protect her baby boy upstairs and her unborn baby.

With that I think Amanda would have willingly given up her debit card her purse and all she possessed to just make them leave.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I'll bet you dime to a dollar these hoods were living in Section 8 housing or residing with a relative that lives there.

It becomes a 'ghetto' because of the loud music, questionable comings and goings and burglaries of anything they can steal and take.

All of a sudden good folks just don't want to live there any more.

I AM familiar with big cities and the problems they pose. Detroit, Indianapolis, Gary and Chicago.

I could probably write a book.

Take a small city in Indiana. A big shot build a beautiful apartment complex with everything desirable to those that could afford such luxury.

Promising they would never allow school age children to live there as it was a concern the schools were not large enough for all the children that could live in such a complex.

Fast forward. The owner dies, it's sold and section 8 comes in with lots of welfare, drugs and gangs. Kids of all ages.

They almost tore that town up with burglaries, drugs, fights and over worked LE.

New owners came in and did a complete turn around and now it is once more a peaceful community.

If you would like to read about this community I offer this.

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/...cle_0192b1fc-a2e5-5417-8222-060740c3bd98.html

So ghetto's are all kinds of places. They are no longer Cabrini Green!

C47. I couldn't have said it better myself. Big hugs here.

 

[Lilibet]

Agree. But the poster seemed to only be bewildered by a loving devoted woman being killed by .....

But I 100 % agree with you. Because most home invaders and murderers do not discriminate at all. So this wasn't a religious payback crime. Nor a black on white crime.

It was simply a :"These People That Live In This Area Have Things That I Want To Steal Right Now" crime.

With a extra added dose of murder by the guy who was looney. Jmo

BBM

Not to put words in the OP's mouth, but I agree with you and I see it as asking the age old question "Why do bad things happen to good people?" (whether they are religious or not). That's a discussion for another place, but it goes back to the point I've made about trying to figure out why this happened to Amanda because it makes us feel that maybe we can prevent it from happening to us. Sure, we can take physical precautions like locking our doors and securing our windows and sliding doors. But when we've done all that and someone intent on doing evil breaks in, it doesn't matter who we are or what we believe or how hard we've prayed. We may not come out of it alive. That fact is hard for many to face and accept, while still maintaining faith. JMO

 

[DexterMorgan]

Another thing. People need to understand that you don't have to kill to be charged with murder. So stop commiting crimes with people who will not hesitate to kill.

Or better yet. Just stop commiting crimes all together.

Everybody always claims that I love my mama or my family and I will do anything to protect them. But then they turn around and rob or kill or assault or rape people that have families as well. Wtf.

Wake up. You are not entitled. So man up and get a dam job and do the best you can with the funds that you honestly earned. Jmo.

 

[DexterMorgan]

BBM

Not to put words in the OP's mouth, but I agree with you and I see it as asking the age old question "Why do bad things happen to good people?" (whether they are religious or not). That's a discussion for another place, but it goes back to the point I've made about trying to figure out why this happened to Amanda because it makes us feel that maybe we can prevent it from happening to us. Sure, we can take physical precautions like locking our doors and securing our windows and sliding doors. But when we've done all that and someone intent on doing evil breaks in, it doesn't matter who we are or what we believe or how hard we've prayed. We may not come out of it alive. That fact is hard for many to face and accept, while still maintaining faith. JMO

I agree my gal. There are kids that are not even born yet that will end up killing someone that has already been living for decades.

And why and where would they get this idea from? Idk.

 

[Lilibet]

Another thing. People need to understand that you don't have to kill to be charged with murder. So stop commiting crimes with people who will not hesitate to kill.

Or better yet. Just stop commiting crimes all together.

Everybody always claims that I love my mama or my family and I will do anything to protect them. But then they turn around and rob or kill or assault or rape people that have families as well. Wtf.

Wake up. You are not entitled. So man up and get a dam job and do the best you can with the funds that you honestly earned. Jmo.

:loveyou: :goodpost: :yeahthat: :yourock:

 

[al66pine]

Out of 12,664 burglaries 92 murder victims. 2011
A very small percent kill those they go to burglarize.
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11

Cardinal47. Thanks for posting. An informative link w FBI figures.

Not sure if you are reading table correctly, in saying "Out of 12,664 burglaries 92 murder victims."
I may not be either but believe it says in 2011......... out of 12,664 murders, 92 murders occurred.

Snipped from table at link, w my bolding:

Total for 2011 .................................................. 12,664 murders

A. Sub-category "Felony Type Total" ...................... 1,816 murders
---Sub-sub-category "Burglary" ............................. 92 murders

B. Sub-category "Other than felony type total" ........ 5976 murders.

C. Sub-category "Unknown" .................................. 4812 murders.

Welcoming correction or clarification from you or others re my ^interp^ (or mis-interp?).


Also, a diff point:
Is it possible (not certain, just possible) that some Sub B and Sub C murders occurred in events not classified as burglaries, but which in fact were uncompleted burglaries? For example, perps broke & entered but could not actually steal property (interrupted or for whatever reasons). Seems likely to me.

Also, table has no 'home invasion' category, for perps who deliberately go into occupied homes. Not clear if these suspects thought anyone was home at Blackburn home.

Just a couple thoughts. Hoping not too far O/T.

 

[Eloise]

Everybody always claims that I love my mama or my family and I will do anything to protect them. But then they turn around and rob or kill or assault or rape people that have families as well. Wtf.

Wake up. You are not entitled. So man up and get a dam job and do the best you can with the funds that you honestly earned. Jmo.

Yep. The old chestnut of the perp's mother being interviewed saying 'he's such a good boy'. Uhhhh... no he's not. Just because he's nice to his own mother/family, does not mean he's a nice person. (speaking generally and from seeing the same happen many times over the years) I think it's how nice you are to people who owe you nothing that marks you as a good person, if that makes sense.

BBM

Not to put words in the OP's mouth, but I agree with you and I see it as asking the age old question "Why do bad things happen to good people?" (whether they are religious or not). That's a discussion for another place, but it goes back to the point I've made about trying to figure out why this happened to Amanda because it makes us feel that maybe we can prevent it from happening to us. Sure, we can take physical precautions like locking our doors and securing our windows and sliding doors. But when we've done all that and someone intent on doing evil breaks in, it doesn't matter who we are or what we believe or how hard we've prayed. We may not come out of it alive. That fact is hard for many to face and accept, while still maintaining faith. JMO

BBM
Yep, I think that is why a lot of so-called 'victim blaming' occurs. It's not actually blaming the victim per se, not in a nasty way. It's trying to reassure yourself that you would never be in that position because you want to feel secure, not because you think you're smarter than them in a superior way. I think it's comforting, and I think it's human nature. It can be difficult to rise above that urge, and comprehend and accept that bad things can truly happen to anyone even when precautions are taken.

 

[Cardinal47]

Cardinal47. Thanks for posting. An informative link w FBI figures.

Not sure if you are reading table correctly, in saying "Out of 12,664 burglaries 92 murder victims."
I may not be either but believe it says in 2011......... out of 12,664 murders, 92 murders occurred.

Snipped from table at link, w my bolding:

Total for 2011 .................................................. 12,664 murders

A. Sub-category "Felony Type Total" ...................... 1,816 murders
---Sub-sub-category "Burglary" ............................. 92 murders

B. Sub-category "Other than felony type total" ........ 5976 murders.

C. Sub-category "Unknown" .................................. 4812 murders.

Welcoming correction or clarification from you or others re my ^interp^ (or mis-interp?).


Also, a diff point:
Is it possible (not certain, just possible) that some Sub B and Sub C murders occurred in events not classified as burglaries, but which in fact were uncompleted burglaries? For example, perps broke & entered but could not actually steal property (interrupted or for whatever reasons). Seems likely to me.

Also, table has no 'home invasion' category, for perps who deliberately go into occupied homes. Not clear if these suspects thought anyone was home at Blackburn home.

Just a couple thoughts. Hoping not too far O/T.

It should have read out of 12,664 murder victims 92 were during a burglary.

I tried to go back and change it but it isn't giving me that option. Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[al66pine]

It should have read out of 12,664 murder victims 92 were during a burglary.
I tried to go back and change it but it isn't giving me that option. Thank you for pointing that out.

Thought that's prob'ly what happened. Sorry you were not able to edit.

To repeat other question in my post:
" Is it possible (not certain, just possible) that some Sub B and Sub C murders occurred in events not classified as burglaries, but which in fact were uncompleted burglaries? For example, perps broke & entered but could not actually steal property (interrupted or for whatever reasons). Seems likely to me."
IOW, I think there were more murders during 'almost burglaries' and during 'unknown' more than 92 murders that yr.

Anyone?

 

[Ontario Mom]

Had to take a break from following this (and from all of WS, really) but I see the discussion is still on why/how Amanda had to have been targeted. I've read all the arguments and none of them make sense to me as to WHY she, her specifically, was a target that dreadful morning. Honestly, it's like there's an agenda someone is compelled to push without spelling it out.

I don't think she was a target. I think she was a victim of LT's wickedness that morning when he (likely) saw DB leave, and (possibly) assumed the house was empty. Him and his creepy friends just pulled a decent haul out of the other house there in the cul de sac, so he likely figured the Blackburn's home may be filled with similar items. OR (and this is pure speculation), AB saw DB to the door, LT saw it all, then watched DB leave and knew she was in the home, and that's what drew him there. Because he's a twisted, wicked, horrible human being.

Really though, unless one of these vermin gives a full confession, we may never really know. The GOOD news is, those directly responsible are exactly where they belong. In a cage.

 

[MaxManning]

Speaking for myself- as I am clearly one of the people you are referring to who is struggling with making sense of this crime (you say "the only reason people", not "some people")- I do think there could be alternate theories other than 3 young drugged up, burglary-loving kids randomly walked into AB's house and killing a woman by shooting her three times, just b/c that's what they do. That is clearly the working theory and likely what happened, but it doesn't have to mean it makes sense to me and that I have nefarious motives in trying to come up with a motive (they could have known her, they could have known it was a woman in there alone and wanted to rape her, they could have known people connected to her, etc). It certainly doesn't mean I just like to come up with theories that are not based on evidence. A lot of things posted are trying to fill in gaps. I am not directly implying anything. I've been genuinely stumped and want to make it all fit. My personal goal is to "make sense" of the incomplete information the public has been given and I personally have a hard time wrapping my head around a random crime being so brutal under the circumstances (early am, small woman, etc). Doesn't mean I can't accept it if that's what it was.

I've also stated that I agreed with Lillibet's theory posted here yesterday- that people often search for understandable reasons behind seemingly random crime b/c it would help them feel safer themselves. I've said here on this forum that is certainly true for me. So I am not one of those people who only is looking for non-evidence-based theories just to play into one theory. I personally would like the pieces of the evidence we've been given to line up in my mind. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

It does not mean I am only floating one accusatory theory. It means I'm brainstorming on WS, how this could have happened. I'd like to understand the criminal mind better. I think that's natural for a person who posts on WS. I speak for myself here. But would hope that my fellow WS'ers wouldn't judge a person for wanting to make sense of a crime. Perhaps I'm just slow.

I'm over-and-out as it pertains to asking about motive. It appears to be creating a significant deal of misunderstanding and it's hard to brainstorm.

I don't think you have any nefarious motives. I'm just saying that anyone that has trouble believing that burglars with guns could end up in a scenario where someone resists and they use the gun, whether they intended to or not, is likely not truly looking objectively for plausible explanations. Look at their social media. Look at their rap sheets. Look at the other crimes they are now possibly going to be charged with that matched this case in some ways. I am puzzled by why that doesn't "make sense" to anyone.

Brutal crimes happen all the time. I can't make sense of why they do it, but I have no problem accepting the concept that they are capable of it, because it happens everyday.

I am not trying to judge anyone, I just think it's beyond obvious. I think everyone on this board understands where we cannot go. No disrespect meant, but I do believe it's rather transparent. I have seen numerous posts warning not to go "there". So am I the only one acknowledging the obvious ? It's not judging, it's just saying "I get where this is heading".

 

[MaxManning]

The first two were reflex shots. The third and mortal shot was much more deliberate, imo.
JMO

I agree, I think shots 1&2 were likely in close succession. First at her arm that was likely aimed at shooter, second while she was falling to the ground -- through the back out the abdomen, and the 3rd was very deliberate. At that point maybe even to stop her from screaming.

 

[MaxManning]

MaxManning- I must have misunderstood your words then. I didn't realize you were only referring to burglars who armed themselves with guns. I took "ANYONE" in caps and "who has the morals to even burglarize" to mean anyone who even burglarizes. If you are talking about burglars who specifically are carrying guns and are encountered by a fighting victim would "potentially" escalate to murder, then I would agree.

I apologize for not being more specific. But I'd say that a majority of burglars go in armed with a knife or a gun. Do I think that ANYONE who decides they are going to burglarize intends to murder ? no. But I think if they get into a situation where a homeowner has a gun, they might struggle to get it away and potentially kill them. Yes, I think that has the potential to happen when it's "me or him". which is why i said "potential". They are putting themselves in a situation where "potentially" someone could be killed if things go a certain way. Intentions go out the window when you are fighting for your life.

 

[DeDee]

Brainstorming is great. Why not brainstorm the question I posed last night.

Why did LT leave the neighbor's home and walk PAST AB's house to be seen 2-3 doors to the RIGHT of 2812 before he entered? If AB was a target, why not walk directly to her house?

:fish: I'll take the bait. Taylor did not walk past Amanda's home when he left the unoccupied home. He crossed the street when he left the unoccupied dwelling. He walked from there to Amanda's porch. I believe he did this during the packing of the stolen goods into the stolen SUV.

There are three perps, Gordon, Taylor and Watson who leave ABull's apartment at Brendon Way Dr. Multiple crimes are committed. The first of the three 911 emergency calls is placed at 5:23am.

Coincidentally, we have two emergency phone calls within five minutes: one placed at 8:17 once the homeowner of the unoccupied dwelling arrives home; the other at 8:22 at Amanda's home on the same street a few houses apart. The medics called the police to Amanda's CS. Police arrive while the medics are carrying a dying Amanda to the ambulance.

A well-known detective once said, "A coincidence is a clue." ~ Author and Town Marshall James Kolar


Timeline from the PC statement with google map
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...vasion-Indianapolis-4&p=12211920#post12211920

Timeline from charging doc
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...vasion-Indianapolis-4&p=12211919#post12211919

 

[bessie]

:fish: I'll take the bait. Taylor did not walk past Amanda's home when he left the unoccupied home. He crossed the street when he left the unoccupied dwelling. He walked from there to Amanda's porch. I believe he did this during the packing of the stolen goods into the stolen SUV.

Timeline from the PC statement with google map
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...vasion-Indianapolis-4&p=12211920#post12211920

Timeline from charging doc
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...vasion-Indianapolis-4&p=12211919#post12211919

<rsbm>The affidavit does not indicate that LT nor any of the suspects "crossed the street". Where does that come from? Where does it say the vehicle was across the street so that a suspect would have been "packing the stolen goods into the stolen SUV"?

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&#8220;And perhaps I understood it all wrong, but I understood it and that was the novelty.&#8221;
&#8213; Samuel Beckett, Molloy

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