Identified! IN - Hammond, Bones found buried, gold ring, Oct'11 - Francine Carlson

[bessie]

Elizabeth Veloz went missing from Chicago in 1992. She was not petite, but there is some indication she was taken to the Hammond/Whiting area.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/v/veloz_elizabeth.html

Her thread here at WS
IL IL - Beth Veloz, 28, Chicago, 26 July 1992 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[webrocket]

Newspaper articles from 1993 show a different owner/operator. Same last name as the one mentioned in the "bones" article, but first name is different.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ing&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

I'm not sleuthing this person, just trying to figure out the discrepancy between the name mentioned in the article and the obit you found. It's certainly possible there was more than one owner over the years.

you can own a store but rent the space. the land records show the titled owner of the property and they may have had nothing at all to do with the operation of the store.

 

[chmiller0904]

In response to Beth Veloz.. the location on the east side of Chicago would've only been about four miles from this address in Whiting. They link also mentioned the Indiana Harbor.. it is about the same distance in the other direction. So this woman was definitely in this area.

 

[bessie]

you can own a store but rent the space. the land records show the titled owner of the property and they may have had nothing at all to do with the operation of the store.

I'm aware of that, webrocket. We have two gentlemen noted as the owner/operator, however. The Post-Trib article names GP from 1982 until about 2001. It's also stated that his brother was a partner in the business operation. The obit states JN was an owner/operator of GLB&T, but no time is given. A third name comes up in the Highbeam articles I linked. From the context it is clear that JP was involved in running the business. You're right that none of the three necessarily owned the property.

 

[bessie]

In response to Beth Veloz.. the location on the east side of Chicago would've only been about four miles from this address in Whiting. They link also mentioned the Indiana Harbor.. it is about the same distance in the other direction. So this woman was definitely in this area.

Very close. That's why I posted her info even though she doesn't seem to fit the description of "petite". Her case received a lot of publicity lately, so I'm sure she's on the list of possibles.

I can't help but focus a bit on the different scenarios that could've taken place pre- and post-2001. For instance, who had access to the building during while the business was operating? And afterward? Were the locks changed when the business shut down? Or could the crawl space be accessed from outside? I wish we could get a good view of the rear of the building. I would think that whoever hid the body in the crawlspace, if that's what happened, must have been confident that it wouldn't be discovered, which could implicate the business owners if the body was placed there before 2001. Later, it could have been anyone who knew the building was abandoned.

 

[chmiller0904]

Bessie..Just because the business closed, doesn't mean someone didn't still own it &/or have access. HMMM... I wonder if I can find out about that crawl space being accessible from the outside... I'm going to ask around. Also, the place was a hang out for the local kids/young adults.. It is always possible that when you hang out at a place enough time, you eventually figure a way in...

Eventually we will find out more information regarding how long those bones have been buried. That will help a lot!

BTW, I have seen people mention Dr. Promila Mehta-Paul. She hasn't even been missing for a year. I am no expert, but those bones look much older. However, she was a petite Indian lady. The word here is that one of her two sons may be responsible for her disappearance.

 

[bessie]

Bessie..Just because the business closed, doesn't mean someone didn't still own it &/or have access.

No, not at all, but the pool of individuals likely to hide a body on the premises expands, imo.

Regarding the age of the remains, Police Chief Miller mentioned "years".

While he could not say how long the victim has been dead, he said it has been years.

http://posttrib.suntimes.com/photos...-search-for-clues-about-hammond-skeleton.html

 

[chmiller0904]

I am told that yes.. the crawl space was accessible from the outside. My source, an 18y old that used to live in Whiting, tells me that she and her friends would hang out there.. She said the kids would go back there to smoke and such. It was definitely accessible from the outside. They used to dare each other to go into the crawl space area. So, that being said... that expands the pool a bit.

If it comes back that the bones have been put there within the past ten years, then the person that committed this crime and/or the victim could easily be someone that has hung out at the property, or simply, lived in the area.

I'm interested in finding out how old these bones are. I mean.. how many years.

Just thought this would be helpful...

 

[bessie]

Thanks! That is helpful. I hope we hear news soon.

DNA and the ring should identify or eliminate the more well known cases fairly quickly. But even then, there's the mystery of how she ended up there.

 

[bessie]

I put the ring image through Photoshop. It didn't help very much, I'm afraid. FWIW, the setting seems to be square with the blue stone between the two small diamonds. On the band itself I can barely make out a cross engraved or embossed in the gold.

 

[MarthaM]

Elizabeth Veloz went missing from Chicago in 1992. She was not petite, but there is some indication she was taken to the Hammond/Whiting area.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/v/veloz_elizabeth.html

Her thread here at WS
IL IL - Beth Veloz, 28, Chicago, 26 July 1992 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

This one is very interesting, and the best possibility yet at this early stage, just because of the geography. I wouldn't call Elizabeth petite, either, but maybe we'll get clarification soon about just how petite the person they found really was.

I read this article from a couple of years ago about Elizabeth, and I can completely see why they were frustrated at the media focus on one woman's disappearance but not on their own family member's:

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/article_41c76f17-1560-5d0f-aeee-ddb9fcdcd923.html

I hadn't even heard of this story until today. I know I would remember if I had because she was from the neighborhood that I have close family ties to, and I would have paid attention if I'd heard about it.

 

[MarthaM]

I put the ring image through Photoshop. It didn't help very much, I'm afraid. FWIW, the setting seems to be square with the blue stone between the two small diamonds. On the band itself I can barely make out a cross engraved or embossed in the gold.

Oh, I think that helps a lot. Very different from what I was picturing.

 

[Yoda]

The hair on the remains, seems almost a reddish brown.

 

[CarlK90245]

Here's the side-by-side of Bessie's modified image with a zoom-in of Veronica Blumhorst's ring (on her right hand).

It's close, but the stone on Veronica's ring might be a little larger.

ETA: I had thought the hump on top was part of the ring, but on closer inspection, it looks more like either dirt or mummified flesh.

 

[turanna25]

I put the ring image through Photoshop. It didn't help very much, I'm afraid. FWIW, the setting seems to be square with the blue stone between the two small diamonds. On the band itself I can barely make out a cross engraved or embossed in the gold.

Wow!! That's a MUCH better picture than the one in the news. Thanks Bessie!

I can't seem to see the small diamonds on either side of the gemstone. The ring looks like its a metal square with the gem in the center and almost like an engraved cross is under the gemstone. Like the square is cut into 4 little squares if that makes sense. That's the only "cross"-like thing I can see. Am I missing it?

 

[MarthaM]

I see a cross on the band to the left of the stone. It looks like a cross carved in or etched on a small shield, sort of. I figured there was one on the the other side of the stone, too. Unless that's not even a cross at all and I'm imagining it! I don't see a cross over the gemstone at all.

I rotated the picture so that I'm looking at it up-and-down, and the cross looks clearer to me then.

I don't think it looks like Veronica's ring at all now.

 

[bessie]

I'm glad you see the cross in the band, too. It's so faint I thought it might be my eyes playing tricks. I don't see a cross over the stone, either.

Turanna, I understand what you mean, but I think it's the effect of the diamonds aside the larger stone that looks like lines dissecting the setting.

Veronica's ring does seem to be larger. This really does look like a child's/student's ring and reminds me of some I remember seeing years ago.

 

[TechWriter797]

The ring looks like it could be a petite-sized class ring. My daughter's class ring was understated like that. If it's not, then we could consider birth months -- darker blue is sapphire for September; lighter blue is blue zircon for December.

 

[Cubby]

Veronica's stone also appears rounder to me, and the ring found with the uid is no doubt square.

Elizabeth Veloz looks like a good possibility. I think we should be careful on getting too hung up on defining petite. Especially since that description came from a non professional eye.

Great job on the photoshop photo of the ring, bessie. Though, I still can't make out the cross.



jmo

ETA: I should say the prongs make the stone look square, unless it is the dirt impacted in the ring playing tricks on my eyes.

 

[chmiller0904]

I am wondering about this ring. If there is a cross, or perhaps even a shield, maybe it could be a class ring. A class ring that belonged to a woman that attended a Catholic School??? or a Christian School?

If this is the case, the family will surely be able to identify her by the ring. I am hoping the investigators will post better pics for the public.