Found Deceased IN - Kyran Holland, 1, Kyannah Holland, 2, Kyle Moorman II, 5, & dad, Kyle Moorman, 27, Indianapolis, 6 Jul 2022

[SuziQ]

Such a sad turn of events. I think our insider posted that the area is rock and there was algae scraped away, In a place where it could not have been from a boat

 

[imstilla.grandma]

*I wish healing and peace to all who loved this family.

Police say Kyle Moorman, 27, and his three children — 1-year-old Kyran Holland, 2-year-old Kyannah Holland and 5-year-old Kyle Moorman II — were pronounced dead after responders found them near Bluff Road and Troy Avenue. Family members had previously been searching for them there.

The causes and manners of their deaths are pending, according to the coroner's office.

Man, 3 kids pulled from pond ID'ed as Kyle Moorman and children: Coroner

The man and three children who were pulled late Tuesday from a pond on the city's south side have been identified as a father and his children reported missing earlier this week.

www.wrtv.com

 

[branmuffin]

When I look at the vehicle, I see a couple of things. One is that the driver's side window is partially open. I know the vehicle had a temporary plate. Does that mean the car, a 2009 Saab, was new to him and he might have been unfamiliar with some of the features associated with a European vehicle? Or was there just a backlog of adminstrative issues due to Covid regarding issuing a permanent plate? Sometimes buying a car that old means it may not come with an owner's manual although you can download them or buy them on eBay.

People familiar with the area say it was hot and muggy the night they went missing so I presume Kyle had the AC on and the windows up if he was sitting in the vehicle and so the kids wouldn't be cranky in a hot car. Whatever the reason the car entered the water, the same thing would happen; eventually the power windows would malfunction and you wouldn't be able to open the windows further. I wonder if that is what happened here? He was a very slim man so it is conceivable he could have exited the driver's side window to escape even if it wasn't fully down.

The second thing I see is the damage to the roof at the front of the vehicle. There doesn't seem to be much damage to the front or the rear. Normally when a vehicle is driven into water the grade is gradual so that most vehicles remain upright. With this being a former quarry the drop would have been fairly abrupt. If you look at images of how a quarry is mined it is done in quarry benches meaning it has a stepped appearance. So when this car became submerged it probably went down nose first and hit some of those benches on the way down perhaps ending up on its roof.

I'd be interested to know whether all the children were buckled into their car seats or not. And whether the oldest child was in the front or rear of the vehicle. I have a feeling the older child may not have been buckled in if they were just going to fish. If he was in the front, technically he also could have escaped with his father's help but the younger kids were probably doomed. The fact that Kyle's body came to the surface suggests it became dislodged after decomp started.

I know a lot of people are criticizing LE for not doing a water search earlier but usually there has to be evidence to start and from what I can gather there was no evidence of a vehicle going into the water. If people were searching and milling around or subsequent vehicles parked in that area after the vehicle went missing it would have obliterated any evidence. This pond was quite deep being a former quarry but relatively small. LE utilize metal detectors to locate wrecks underwater so I do wonder why that wasn't implemented.

 

[Teche]

Didn't a family member state that the dad left behind a child’s asthma pump and diapers? Maybe the fishing trip was not on the agenda anymore.

 

[Lillymac]

I woul

When I look at the vehicle, I see a couple of things. One is that the driver's side window is partially open. I know the vehicle had a temporary plate. Does that mean the car, a 2009 Saab, was new to him and he might have been unfamiliar with some of the features associated with a European vehicle? Or was there just a backlog of adminstrative issues due to Covid regarding issuing a permanent plate? Sometimes buying a car that old means it may not come with an owner's manual although you can download them or buy them on eBay.

People familiar with the area say it was hot and muggy the night they went missing so I presume Kyle had the AC on and the windows up if he was sitting in the vehicle and so the kids wouldn't be cranky in a hot car. Whatever the reason the car entered the water, the same thing would happen; eventually the power windows would malfunction and you wouldn't be able to open the windows further. I wonder if that is what happened here? He was a very slim man so it is conceivable he could have exited the driver's side window to escape even if it wasn't fully down.

The second thing I see is the damage to the roof at the front of the vehicle. There doesn't seem to be much damage to the front or the rear. Normally when a vehicle is driven into water the grade is gradual so that most vehicles remain upright. With this being a former quarry the drop would have been fairly abrupt. If you look at images of how a quarry is mined it is done in quarry benches meaning it has a stepped appearance. So when this car became submerged it probably went down nose first and hit some of those benches on the way down perhaps ending up on its roof.

I'd be interested to know whether all the children were buckled into their car seats or not. And whether the oldest child was in the front or rear of the vehicle. I have a feeling the older child may not have been buckled in if they were just going to fish. If he was in the front, technically he also could have escaped with his father's help but the younger kids were probably doomed. The fact that Kyle's body came to the surface suggests it became dislodged after decomp started.

I know a lot of people are criticizing LE for not doing a water search earlier but usually there has to be evidence to start and from what I can gather there was no evidence of a vehicle going into the water. If people were searching and milling around or subsequent vehicles parked in that area after the vehicle went missing it would have obliterated any evidence. This pond was quite deep being a former quarry but relatively small. LE utilize metal detectors to locate wrecks underwater so I do wonder why that wasn't implemented.

I would say that the children were in their car seats and that Kyle was not in the car. Based on what you posted that the window was half way open. And that decomp gasses would make him rise to the surface. I don't think he would float out a half open window, but I could see a small child doing that if not restrained. I also would think he would get his children out of the window before he left the car. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying. We also don't know do we, the position of the car when located. Was it lying on its side, roof or upright....I am not familiar with any restrictions re covid applying to buying a car?¿ I thought I read he had just gotten the car that day.
I'm really trying to justify an accident here, but I'm having a hard time doing it. Such a horrible out come!

 

[Bhodie]

Just Curious it looks like a business Ellis Mechanical has a pretty good view of that lake I see they have cameras to the front on top of the building I wonder if they have anything to the rear that may have caught anything.

 

[branmuffin]

I woul

I would say that the children were in their car seats and that Kyle was not in the car. Based on what you posted that the window was half way open. And that decomp gasses would make him rise to the surface. I don't think he would float out a half open window, but I could see a small child doing that if not restrained. I also would think he would get his children out of the window before he left the car. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying. We also don't know do we, the position of the car when located. Was it lying on its side, roof or upright....I am not familiar with any restrictions re covid applying to buying a car?¿ I thought I read he had just gotten the car that day.
I'm really trying to justify an accident here, but I'm having a hard time doing it. Such a horrible out come!

I didn't say there were restrictions with buying a vehicle. I said with prior government closures due to Covid it's possible Kyle was driving with a temporary permit because offices weren't up to speed distributing new metal plates. But if he only got the car the day they went missing it makes sense he'd have a temporary plate.

We don't know the position of the vehicle when it was located. As to how the vehicle settled in the water; I was basing my speculation on the fact that the pond was deep, a former quarry, and the heaviest part of a vehicle is where the engine is so gravity does the rest.

My speculation regarding how this tragedy came to be isn't a popular one, but there is the possibility it was planned. I don't know the whys or the wherefores, but sometimes there are second thoughts and as the water was rushing into the vehicle his survival instinct took over and he tried to exit the vehicle only to get hung up on something half in and out of the car, eventually coming loose when decomp made his body more bouyant.

This is all speculation on my part based on the fact that I, too, have difficulty seeing this as an accident. Apparently, it was a popular location for night fishing and there was a homeless encampment in the area. AFAIK no one had reported hearing any signs of alarm, someone yelling, car honking, etc around the time the car went in the water. Also, two years ago, three young men were murdered in Florida when they went night fishing. Apparently, when night fishing, people face their vehicles toward the water source and put their headlights on since it attracts the fish. I haven't heard anything about that either.

 

[Indy22]

I find it kind of disappointing that each agency has a different way of handling missing persons some are very proactive and on it from day one and others are, just for lack of a better word lazy about it. Now I get that this was a grown man but there were a few variables in place that they could have at been a little more hands on just to be sure they were not in the lake at all. I review a lot of cases, past and present and its very frustrating to see how some of these are handled and no agency is the same, heartbreaking actually. So many "What If's" about if police had reacted sooner.

100%! Unfortunately in this case I don’t know that lives would have been saved had the police responded sooner but without a doubt LE’s apparent reluctance to help with a search contributed to the family’s angst. I say “apparent” because we’re beimg told LE was active but the family was unaware. It’s my understanding a Detective was assigned to the case days before contacting the family. And seeing firsthand the two Detectives that arrived at the pond Tuesday early afternoon to speak with the family (then left) IMO sending them to a “How to Look Like You Give a Damn Even When You Don’t” seminar wouldn’t be a bad idea. I have to assume these officers did in fact care, but a more obvious display of empathy would have been appropriate and very appreciated. Had it been handled differently, perhaps even without a search, the family wouldn’t have had to deal w/such strong feelings of anger, frustration and helplessness. In general I’m a strong supporter of LE and my impression of IPD has been positive, I just don’t think this was a particularly shining moment.

In a similar vein, as a previous IN resident who returned recently I was not only surprised by LE’s demeanor and communication w/family but also IMO a relative lack of citizen involvement. I was startled to arrive at the pond Tuesday only to find a handful of non-family/friends there. In other cases where LE has been (perceived to be) slow to react I’ve seen citizens show up in droves. Dog handlers volunteering to help. Print shops gifting flyers. Boat owners volunteering to pitch in. Etc. On Monday there was an amazing couple who were at the pond w/a boat and when they learned about Kyle and the missing kids spent the rest of the day searching the lake the best they could. And yesterday a gentleman with Multiple Sclorosis and his wife showed up ready to walk. So yes there were wonderful people eager to help, just not as many as I would have hopes. Or volunteers with specialized resources.

I’m familiar w/the Delphi case (about an hour away) as well as the disappearance of Lauren Speier (sp) an IU Bloomington student (an hour away in the opposite direction) who went missing about 10 years ago. In those cases people lined up to help. The local news was covering Kyle’s case fairly well so I don’t know that lack of awareness accounts for the difference. Maybe it’s an Indy thing. Maybe there aren’t many (any?) volunteer search/cadavear dog handlers nearby. But I hope the next time something like this occurs here in my now hometown it’s different. This is a city of 1 million and seems more people showed up to look for Dylan Rounds in the middle of nowhere Utah. Seems like some volunteer organization might be in order. Locals, your thoughts?

 

[Indy22]

I just looked at the video of the car being hauled away. The back bumper is falling off and the roof across the top of the windshield is crushed. I have no idea how fast a car can sink... would hitting rocks while sinking do this kind of damage? I wouldn't think a car "falls" through water that quickly. Could the damage have been caused when they dragged it out maybe?

My first thought was similar—the car looked awfully banged up compared to others I’ve seen pulled from water. But the car didn’t have air conditioning and it’s been unseasonably hot here so all 4 windows were probably wide open. Once water poured in the car I imagine it might sink fairly quickly. And if the pond is as deep as many speculate (100+ feet) it might have picked up quite a bit of speed before hitting bottom. And if in fact it’s an old quarry the bottom would be all rock.

I know nothing of physics let alone the specifics about how a car sinks and would love to hear from those that do if open windows, depth and rock bottom could explain that much damage.

 

[azure]

100%! Unfortunately in this case I don’t know that lives would have been saved had the police responded sooner but without a doubt LE’s apparent reluctance to help with a search contributed to the family’s angst. I say “apparent” because we’re beimg told LE was active but the family was unaware. It’s my understanding a Detective was assigned to the case days before contacting the family. And seeing firsthand the two Detectives that arrived at the pond Tuesday early afternoon to speak with the family (then left) IMO sending them to a “How to Look Like You Give a Damn Even When You Don’t” seminar wouldn’t be a bad idea. I have to assume these officers did in fact care, but a more obvious display of empathy would have been appropriate and very appreciated. Had it been handled differently, perhaps even without a search, the family wouldn’t have had to deal w/such strong feelings of anger, frustration and helplessness. In general I’m a strong supporter of LE and my impression of IPD has been positive, I just don’t think this was a particularly shining moment.

In a similar vein, as a previous IN resident who returned recently I was not only surprised by LE’s demeanor and communication w/family but also IMO a relative lack of citizen involvement. I was startled to arrive at the pond Tuesday only to find a handful of non-family/friends there. In other cases where LE has been (perceived to be) slow to react I’ve seen citizens show up in droves. Dog handlers volunteering to help. Print shops gifting flyers. Boat owners volunteering to pitch in. Etc. On Monday there was an amazing couple who were at the pond w/a boat and when they learned about Kyle and the missing kids spent the rest of the day searching the lake the best they could. And yesterday a gentleman with Multiple Sclorosis and his wife showed up ready to walk. So yes there were wonderful people eager to help, just not as many as I would have hopes. Or volunteers with specialized resources.

I’m familiar w/the Delphi case (about an hour away) as well as the disappearance of Lauren Speier (sp) an IU Bloomington student (an hour away in the opposite direction) who went missing about 10 years ago. In those cases people lined up to help. The local news was covering Kyle’s case fairly well so I don’t know that lack of awareness accounts for the difference. Maybe it’s an Indy thing. Maybe there aren’t many (any?) volunteer search/cadavear dog handlers nearby. But I hope the next time something like this occurs here in my now hometown it’s different. This is a city of 1 million and seems more people showed up to look for Dylan Rounds in the middle of nowhere Utah. Seems like some volunteer organization might be in order. Locals, your thoughts?

Let me first say that I'm so sorry for you and your friend's loss. This is an unbelievably tragic case and my heart goes out to you all. I'm not local but I think because they were missing with the car and it wasn't completely certain (per reporting) where they were going, people weren't sure where to look. It seemed like they were still in the vehicle and had possibly chosen to leave and could be anywhere, especially after the mistaken sighting.

In the Dylan Rounds case, his vehicle was at home, so it initially seemed very possible that he'd had an accident while on foot. His mother was also more motivated than almost anyone I've seen to get her son's case in the media, organize searches, and put pressure on LE.

 

[kccorona]

Didn't a family member state that the dad left behind a child’s asthma pump and diapers? Maybe the fishing trip was not on the agenda anymore.

Yes- that was stated by a family member in early MSM articles. When I read it though, I took it more as saying he wasn't intending to be gone for long, as in if he was planning on taking the kids on a trip or leaving for an extended time with the kids, he wouldn't have left behind the inhaler and extra diapers. But it could be normal for him not to take the med and diapers for an evening out to go fishing, especially if it wasn't that far from home (making it easy to get back home for these items if needed). Just my opinion, or how I interpreted the family's words.

 

[Indy22]

I just saw the news. I'm so sad over this, I can barely type. Kyle, play & run & fish in Heaven with your babies every day. My prayers are with the family here now - I can't imagine what they are going through. @Indy22 - please pass our condolences from our group here at WS to the family & let them know that while we only knew Kyle & the babies a short while, we care.

I will!

 

[azure]

• Adult male pulled from the water
• Pronounced dead at the scene
• Located a vehicle at the same body of the water.
• Three young children found inside of the car.
• Can’t identify if they were to confirm if it was Kyle
• All signs point to Kyle and his kids were in the car
• Death investigation
• Car matches the vehicle being driven by Kyle Moorman

BBM. Interesting, so they think Kyle was originally in the car? I guess he wasn't belted in and floated out of the car? I thought it was somewhat likely that one of the kids knocked the car into gear, I suppose less likely though if the kids were all in car seats. I wonder what the heck happened.

 

[Indy22]

Let me first say that I'm so sorry for you and your friend's loss. This is an unbelievably tragic case and my heart goes out to you all. I'm not local but I think because they were missing with the car and it wasn't completely certain (per reporting) where they were going, people weren't sure where to look. It seemed like they were still in the vehicle and had possibly chosen to leave and could be anywhere, especially after the mistaken sighting.

In the Dylan Rounds case, his vehicle was at home, so it initially seemed very possible that he'd had an accident while on foot. His mother was also more motivated than almost anyone I've seen to get her son's case in the media, organize searches, and put pressure on LE.

All very good points. I feel better already. Thank you!

 

[stonedgnome]

@Indy22 Do we know if the car was found upside down or right-side up?

 

[Indy22]

Such a sad turn of events. I think our insider posted that the area is rock and there was algae scraped away, In a place where it could not have been from a boat

I think that poster may have been me, and if I said it couldn’t have been from a boat I mis-spoke. The scraping could have been consistent w/a boat bow or a canoe/kayak.

 

[carbuff]

@Indy22 I'm so sorry for you and your friends' loss.

I hope you'll consider staying around. We could use your intelligent insight for all the other missing and unidentified who don't get the attention of the big cases.

 

[Indy22]

@Indy22 I'm so sorry for you and your friends' loss.

I hope you'll consider staying around. We could use your intelligent insight for all the other missing and unidentified who don't get the attention of the big cases.

Thank you. I suspect you’re stuck w/me. WS has a great group of contributors and I it’s obvious posters here really care. As does Tricia! A very refreshing change from so many other SM forums populated by trolls and aspiring idiots.

 

[Mauig’ma]

Thank you. I suspect you’re stuck w/me. WS has a great group of contributors and I it’s obvious posters here really care. As does Tricia! A very refreshing change from so many other SM forums populated by trolls and aspiring idiots.

Boy I’m glad you see that! Lol. No trolls here

 

[MysteriousNoblewoman]

I’m so sad to read this. Four lives gone, three of them had not even started yet. I wonder why he chose to bring them that night. I know we’re victim friendly. I just have a hard time seeing this as an accident, considering he didn’t bring Astma inhaler nor diapers, and said no to his sister wanting to feed the children.
Who says no to that when going on a trip with three small children unless they know it doesn’t matter if they’re fed :-(
It looks like his parents and siblings loved those kids, so it’s very tragic that they have to lose it all at once