IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #10

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  • #461
For those interested in LS movements at College and 11th: I went by and snapped a photo. Once I have time and energy to figure out how to upload here I will do that. But for now, please know that there really is no "rounding of the corner" here. It is a sharp, right-angle turn with the following within feet of one another: stoplight, one-way street sign, a large utility box, what I think is a street light, large, realty-type sign, a construction sign! All of this is under a tree with low-lying branches. Yikes! It's an obstacle course. Hell, even if she did stay on College to go to Smallwood, crossing the street at the intersection would be safer, less obstructed and more illuminated!

Here's a pic from Herald Times, I think looking south on College.
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/pages/spierer_photos


Also lots of pics taken by BTown on picture thread- 11th & College is shown near the end of Post #5 and start of #6.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140294"]IN IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 *PHOTOS & MAPS* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 

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  • #462
It's not that I think she was involved, it's that I don't trust her because she wasn't forthcoming with information about LS/JW.

IMO -- it's obvious that something was wrong between LS and JW. She was in the company of another male in the middle of the night.
Now, from the beginning, HT made it sound like everything was great between LS and JW, a happily ever after couple.

That's why I don't believe her -- a roommate, a friend, would know of relationship problems.

So then the next question is ... why give the guy your room key if he's an ex?

Perhaps she's protecting him, perhaps she likes him or there is something between them.
Maybe there was some party with multiple people present when Lauren OD'd or died from drinking? And she was there ... they all were?

I don't know really, I cannot say ... I can only say I don't believe HT because of that one slip up she made at the beginning.

Actually, when I think about it, I am not sure if the quotes I saw were her gushing about how wonderful the relationship between LS and JW was so much as her gushing about what a wonderful boyfriend JW was to LS. If, in fact, the two had broken up, and JW was more heartbroken than LS, it would make sense to me that she would be feeling sorry for him already.

On the other hand, I have felt as though she is deviating from a script when she talks. Like she is told to emphasize that JR was the last to see LS, and that he said he saw her at 4:30 and he was sure of it, but it comes out that JR is certain he was the last to see her (which is just a weird statement to me because how can anyone be sure they were the last to see someone unless they know what happened to her?). Maybe since JW is being so quiet at the advice of attorneys, he is using HT as his mouthpiece to defend himself.

By the way, is the consensus here that there is no doubt LS made it safely past the spot where her keys/purse were found? i.e. is that before the spot of the camera? if not, is it definite that she made it to CR's place? could it be possible that JW was called when the confrontation started at the apartment, that he caught up with CR, LS, and all of his friends in the alleyway, that something happened there and they are all covering for JW and friends?
 
  • #463
Perhaps perhaps perhaps. :)

I have a law degree myself and am impressed by the logic, persistence, and subtlety of certain posters. The structured arguments and precise language are familiar to me. It's almost as if these posters of interest (PsOI, naturally) are motivated by things other than friendly speculation. hmmmmmm?

You don't even need a law degree to see that one
 
  • #464
Perhaps perhaps perhaps. :)

I have a law degree myself and am impressed by the logic, persistence, and subtlety of certain posters. The structured arguments and precise language are familiar to me. It's almost as if these posters of interest (PsOI, naturally) are motivated by things other than friendly speculation. hmmmmmm?

I treat my fellow posters like Nancy Grace treats her guests, what can I say? :)
 
  • #465
Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I don't buy that at all.
Even at 20, if you're in a relationship it's not cool to ditch your boyfriend and hang out with a guy you just met, at 2 a.m., with his hands all over you.

Unless that was normal behavior for LS, which I've seen nobody suggest that it was, then I think something had to be amiss between her and JW, IMO.

I'm not expressing an opinion on the matter, only trying to give you the other side of the conclusion you seemed to be making.

It is not cool to do those things, but it is extremely, albeit unfortunately, common.
 
  • #466
Can anyone provide some context for the assertion that JR was disliked by other members of his fraternity, or JW's 'camp'? This is one of the few bits of information that I haven't come across anywhere else but here at WS, but I haven't seen it sourced or corroborated anywhere. It's been my experience that fraternity brothers are pretty tight with each other, especially at that age.
 
  • #467
Lawyer: Boyfriend has cooperated

A lawyer hired to represent Jesse Wolff, Spierer’s boyfriend of two years, said his client has cooperated with police throughout the investigation.

Bloomington attorney Joe Lozano, a former Monroe County deputy prosecutor, said Wolff called Spierer’s parents to let them know their daughter was missing and also spoke to police about her disappearance before hiring a lawyer.

“He has fully cooperated and done what the police wanted,” Lozano said Monday afternoon. “He has nothing to hide.”

Wolff reportedly has returned home to his family in New York as the search for Spierer continues.

http://newyorkstatemissingpersons.ning.com/forum/topics/lauren-spierer-inny-june?xg_source=activity

I wonder what the attorney's professional background says, if anything, about the facts of the case? He is 35 years old, incidentally.
 
  • #468
Let's get back on topic, please.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #469
Also, I note that you seem to be crediting HT for purposes of establishing a good relationship between LS and JR, but perhaps discrediting her for purposes of suggesting a fraying of the relationship between LS and JW.

If I am giving that impression it is unintentional. I am not at all on the band wagon about relationship problems for JW-LS. I think its pretty common for female college students to hang out with guys other than their boyfriends. I used to all the time and that was a very long time ago.

I just bring up the JR-LS-HT thing because even I tend to only remember that she knew CR and MB for a few days, and have to remind myself that no, JR is different, they hung out all year, and know each other fairly well. Unlike CR-MB who I do believe are cleared in my mind.

I did think she came across as overly supportive of JW as if she felt the need to defend his honor even though no one seemed to be pointing fingers at him at that point. Overly defensive of him I would say. But no, I think she's pretty above board and has told us exactly what she thinks happened as told to her by her friends.
 
  • #470
Can anyone provide some context for the assertion that JR was disliked by other members of his fraternity, or JW's 'camp'? This is one of the few bits of information that I haven't come across anywhere else but here at WS, but I haven't seen it sourced or corroborated anywhere. It's been my experience that fraternity brothers are pretty tight with each other, especially at that age.

If by tight, you mean friendly, that is not my experience (as someone who considered pledging about 15 years ago, decided against, but remained friendly with many frat members at what admittedly was a fairly academic place that you would not consider a party school, really, though frats did get in trouble nevertheless). While a frat member is very likely to draw their best friends from the frat, they can be very large organizations and ones' relationship with other members, particularly those not from the same pledge class, may be perfunctory at best.
 
  • #471
By the way, is the consensus here that there is no doubt LS made it safely past the spot where her keys/purse were found? i.e. is that before the spot of the camera? if not, is it definite that she made it to CR's place? could it be possible that JW was called when the confrontation started at the apartment, that he caught up with CR, LS, and all of his friends in the alleyway, that something happened there and they are all covering for JW and friends?

snipped.

I think there's no camera where her keys/purse are and it would have been after (maybe just) she was on camera last. To drop her purse and keys and not notice or have them picked up by CR (or whomever she was with) is a little odd, even if she was drunk enough to fall down there.

I don't feel certain she made it past this spot. But if something happened there, the story thereafter seems oddly complex -- the cover story instead would have been that she walked CR home then left for home.

And who would they be covering for, and why would they have motivation to do so?

This of course is assuming AA is correct in the time that he noticed the keys, I see no reason for him not to be. If AA didn't exist, it would be easier to suppose something could have happened in the alley later in the night.

Could something have happened there that caused them to head to 5 north in a hurry?
 
  • #472
Do we know if HT has taken a poly or asked for one.Anyone?
 
  • #473
I wonder what the attorney's professional background says, if anything, about the facts of the case? He is 35 years old, incidentally.

Are Joe and Larry Lozano the same person? I cannot find a consensus among MSM on who JW's attorney is.
 
  • #474
Are Joe and Larry Lozano the same person? I cannot find a consensus among MSM on who JW's attorney is.

That's my impression. I have no idea who Larry is, and presume it's either the name Joe goes by informally or misreporting.
 
  • #475
I hadn't heard that JR was disliked by the group either-are there links or evidence explaining that?

I don't really trust Lauren's roommate either, but I figured out that the sole reason I think I mistrust her is because I have seen photos of her "desperately searching" where she is grinning and posing like it is a photoshoot. It seems tacky to me, but then I have to remind myself that she is young and grinning and posing for pictures doesn't necessarily=untrustworthy or guilty of anything.

I also think it is pretty clear that Lauren and JW were probably or had recently gone through some relationship issues. Not sure it matters though-I am honestly starting to think JR is the man with the answers.
 
  • #476
By the way, about this drug overdose thing ---

I don't buy it anymore. I did. Yesterday my belief was she OD'd while at JRs.
Tragic accident. He panicked. Got rid of her. Etc. etc.

But I don't buy it ... the more I think about it, the more implausible it all is.

If he's just as drugged up as her, what's he going to do with her body?
He's going to be able to drive out into the countryside and get rid of her and back in a short time? On all those drugs?

Wouldn't someone in those shoes just throw her in the nearest garbage bin (I don't mean to sound insensitive, just getting down to the details).

Also, why would "rumors" like this get out without something more credible turning up?
If people knew anything for rumors to spread, wouldn't someone have told police now?

Maybe it's all a smokescreen. Maybe something else happened?
Maybe more people were present and they are all covering for each other?

So many questions.
 
  • #477
Where would she run to with no phone,money, or shoes?Also drunk and messed up to boot at 4:00 in the morning

1. LS may have had an extra phone, the pre-paid type that cannot easily be tracked. Did someone advise her to buy one with cash? Or she may have been aware of a pay phone somewhere.

2. We do not know if she were actually intoxicated at 4:30 am. The booze would wear off, and some of these reports seem to be just rumors.

3. The shoes could easily be replaced. As I mentioned before, $2 for some flip-flops. Of course, she would have to wait until stores started opening.

4. The money? Certain groups can often provide money for people who they are recruiting to join.

5. Maybe the items "lost" are items she was careless with, because she felt that she no longer needed them. She didn't need the old cell, the keys, the (probably stylish) shoes.

6. She looks very happy as she leaves Smallwood; a sense of joy and relief? As though she were quitting something.

7. As I posted before, maybe the "going-out" was just a way of saying goodbye.

8. Many people are up for work at 4:00 am. Not impossible that someone was available & able to give her a ride at that time.


And, I do realize that nothing is proven by these observations and guesses. But possibly investigators could look for any ties LS may have had to "anti-modern" groups, whether political or religious, and not necessarily located in IN. Just a suggestion.
 
  • #478
Perhaps perhaps perhaps. :)

I have a law degree myself and am impressed by the logic, persistence, and subtlety of certain posters. The structured arguments and precise language are familiar to me. It's almost as if these posters of interest (PsOI, naturally) are motivated by things other than friendly speculation. hmmmmmm?

Disclaimer - I am a currently unemployed scientist, and completely uninvolved in this case. In case anyone cares! Proving something scientifically is even worse than proving it legally!
:fence:
 
  • #479
By the way, about this drug overdose thing ---

I don't buy it anymore. I did. Yesterday my belief was she OD'd while at JRs.
Tragic accident. He panicked. Got rid of her. Etc. etc.

But I don't buy it ... the more I think about it, the more implausible it all is.

If he's just as drugged up as her, what's he going to do with her body?
He's going to be able to drive out into the countryside and get rid of her and back in a short time? On all those drugs?

Wouldn't someone in those shoes just throw her in the nearest garbage bin (I don't mean to sound insensitive, just getting down to the details).

Also, why would "rumors" like this get out without something more credible turning up?
If people knew anything for rumors to spread, wouldn't someone have told police now?

Maybe it's all a smokescreen. Maybe something else happened?
Maybe more people were present and they are all covering for each other?

So many questions.

An excellent point.
 
  • #480
Are Joe and Larry Lozano the same person? I cannot find a consensus among MSM on who JW's attorney is.

What may I ask has this to do with Lauren missing?It doesn't matter if his name is Jose Baez.What has this got to do with it.?
 
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