IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #11

[Walker]

I was going back over the Indianapolis Star article from June 10 (the one with Rossman's lawyer being extensively quoted), and came across this:



Okay, who were the "at least two other people" who saw her after she left CR/MB's townhouse? If one was JR (the "another neighbor"), who was the second?

I also thought this part about the Smallwood altercation was interesting:


Quote:
Lauren Spierer's father, Robert, told the Journal News he had been told the video shows his daughter and several men in an argument.

When asked about the video, Bloomington Police Lt. Bill Parker said, "Lauren was not involved in any altercation."



Huh?

Seems strange that several men argued with her over her plans that night. What would it mean to them?

 

[bessie]

For some reason, the tone of this article really bothers me. I think the fact that NYC media got involved probably has more to do with the word getting out nationally. I can't figure out how an IU coed is/was also a transient/homeless person (not sure that's what they're saying in the article by using the word "like"). Had she once gone to school there? From following missing person cases, socioeconomic background has nothing to do with people coming out and searching for missing children.
This is just wrong, IMO.

Grubb was not an IU coed. That is my error, and I apologize. :redface: (I was doing some serious multitasking this afternoon.) I agree, caring people will volunteer to help in any case. I think the article was aiming at something a little different.

In Grubb's case, there were no public searches or offers of searches on horseback or in airplanes. Her disappearance was featured on the "Nancy Grace Show" and mentioned late in a few television newscasts, but there were no daily, televised news conferences as in the Spierer case.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/2...ana-student-on-find-lauren-day/#ixzz1QM2mTOub
​

 

[cluciano63]

Interesting case from NM on ID Channel-on "Nightmare Next Door" called "Co-Ed Confidential" about a 22-yr old college student, Katie Sepech, found raped and murdered near Univ of NM/Las Cruces after an off-campus party...one thing of note is that her roommate called the mother of her friend at 2pm the next to tell her that Katie was missing...she was dumped outside of town and found the next day. She left her purse ,keys and phone at the party and seemed to have left on foot, walking about a mile home. LE could tell she was attacked at the window of her home as she tried to get in the window, due to gravel, footprints, screen out...
LE talks to everyone they can find who was at the party, including her boyfriend, who says he hadn't seen her leave. But they do find out that she had seen him kissing another girl. BF had told police there hadn't been an argument...others said there was.
BF tells police he drove by her house to see if she made it home. Also even though he had her phone in his pocket, he kept calling it (friends heard it ringing in his pocket) which seemed suspicious.
Stopped talking to police. Katie has DNA under her fingernails-BF has lawyer, has fled back home, and won't give DNA.

LE looks at other suspects while they try to figure out how to get BF's DNA; checked sex offenders, check the DNA against data bases, etc. No matches. Lots of suspects from the party, some have left town. But one by one all are ruled out, no one refused to give DNA except for one, the BF. LE gets DNA from Katie's bedding as BF admitted they had sex before the party. Not BF's DNA under her fingernails. Said he did not want to give it because he was afraid of having had sex, that his DNA would be on her body. So he is excluded, finally, several months later.

As it turns out, Katie was killed by a random killer who was a career thief and . His DNA was taken when he was convicted of a felony and later matched to Katie's body. He saw her and followed her and raped and killed her. "Katie's Law" is named after her, which allows for DNA to be taken from all convicted felons, not just sexual criminals. The show is on again tomorrow at 4pm EST, BTW.

Anyway, there were a lot of similarities to Lauren's case for me. Lots of partying, keys and purse left behind, walking home alone, relationship issues, lots of people to interview, etc...and after all that, a random DNA match comes up several years later...

 

[RR0004]

Grubb was not an IU coed. That is my error, and I apologize. :redface: (I was doing some serious multitasking this afternoon.) I agree, caring people will volunteer to help in any case. I think the article was aiming at something a little different.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/2...ana-student-on-find-lauren-day/#ixzz1QM2mTOub
​

Thanks...the article still bothers me for that reason. IMO someone has a bad attitude. Death doesn't discriminate. They should have used the power of the pen a year ago to bring attention to that poor girl.
JMHO

 

[bessie]

Wow, that article is just incorrect. Crystal Grubb was not an IU co-ed. And she wasn't "partying" as much as hanging out with her boyfriend and a couple of his friends in/near the woods. For the record, most of us in Bloomington heard nothing about Crystal's case until Lauren disappeared.

Exactly. That's the point.

The article does not say she was an IU coed. That was my error, made while trying to read ten different things at once, and write at the same time. The Fox article and another from earlier say Crystal was out with friends. The original articles printed after right her disappearance, state the circumstances as you describe. She was involved in a fight, walked off into, or toward, the woods, and was never seen alive again.

 

[jjenny]

Exactly. That's the point.

The article does not say she was an IU coed. That was my error, made while trying to read ten different things at once, and write at the same time. The Fox article and another from earlier say Crystal was out with friends. The original articles printed after right her disappearance, state the circumstances as you describe. She was involved in a fight, walked off into, or toward, the woods, and was never seen alive again.

Unfortunately, all the publicity received by LS case doesn't seem to do any good. I mean, we have police on record saying they aren't any closer than they were 3 weeks ago.

 

[mrsu]

Seems strange that several men argued with her over her plans that night. What would it mean to them?

They are referring to the altercation with CR and JW's fraternity brothers. They have video of the fight. It was Lauren, CR, and a group of the frat brothers.

 

[elmomom]

I haven't been on in a few days, but is ZO a POI? I was friends with him through HS.. really hope not.

If the rumors are true, and ZO is seen in the altercation with CR at Smallwood, then he is most likely on the list of POIs. Even if there was no suspicion of him, it would be likely that LE would have found it imperative to speak with him.

 

[elmomom]

Unfortunately, all the publicity received by LS case doesn't seem to do any good. I mean, we have police on record saying they aren't any closer than they were 3 weeks ago.

we also have police, on record, saying that they intentionally will not tell us everything they know about the case.

 

[Walker]

They are referring to the altercation with CR and JW's fraternity brothers. They have video of the fight. It was Lauren, CR, and a group of the frat brothers.

Yes, but doesn't it seem odd that the frat brothers would feel so strongly about the activities of JWs (ex?) gf? Why would they care that much? Unless the fight was about something else ...

 

[bessie]

Yes, but doesn't it seem odd that the frat brothers would feel so strongly about the activities of JWs (ex?) gf? Why would they care that much? Unless the fight was about something else ...

I agree. I think there would have to be more to it. Perhaps there was bad blood between CR and one of the other guys over a past incident, and Lauren being with CR was just an excuse to start trouble with him. Or else it was something altogether different.

 

[Darcyline]

There may be more to it and, in fact, that may be likely, but I have seen a lot of fights break out over just that. I don't think they usually turn physical, but calling someone out for hanging all over your bro's girlfriend in itself doesn't seem weird. Add in alcohol and CR possibly mouthing off back...

I am still operating under the assumption that they were still together even if problems were worming their way into the relationship. I may be wrong on that count!

 

[Lilcheese]

There may be more to it and, in fact, that may be likely, but I have seen a lot of fights break out over just that. I don't think they usually turn physical, but calling someone out for hanging all over your bro's girlfriend in itself doesn't seem weird. Add in alcohol and CR possibly mouthing off back...

Yeah, that's how it tends to go. It might have gone something like

Guys: yo, why you with Jesse's girl?
CR: What do you care, are you Jesse?
Guys: No, you don't need to be with her.
CR: ignore/shut up/other expletive

Fight ensues.

Regardless of how it went down it would seem it had everything to do with LS and the boys, at one point or another, in a report, were confirmed to have said that's what it was over. I believe early on when everyone was trying to point the finger at CR the claim was the argument erupted over CR being "aggressive" with LS, so they stepped in.

From the NY post "Students who encountered Spierer, 20, and her pal -- identified by friends as Corey Rossman -- leaving the building told The Post that she was drunk, he was bothering her and that he got angry when they asked him to stop."

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/friend_eyed_in_co_ed_vanish_7blBBnnw997WFm34fNZELO


The issue I have had with that story, from day one, is that LS, if truly "bothered" by Rossman would not have left with him. If he was bothering her/being aggressive and some white knight knocked him in the face their evening together would have been over. LS leaving with him suggests she was the furthest thing from bothered. The boys went after CR for another reason; likely the fact that LS and CR were being handsy and LS "belonged" to JW.

 

[Darcyline]

Reading between the lines of what happened, I always sort of figured that LS was responding or at least not fighting CR off. I don't mean that at all against her character. I know what it feels like to be a young girl with a boyfriend, but maybe you and that boyfriend are having issues, and you are drunk, and there is a charming other guy who maybe you let him kiss you or something.

I feel like if she truly felt threatened or attacked by CR she would not have walked him home (alone?).

 

[Anymoment]

Hi...I've been following since Lauren's disappearance, but this is my first post here. Doesn't anyone find it odd that a 90 lb. 4'11" girl who is supposedly wasted can help a man who was just punched in the face walk home? I also find it curious that CR has no memory of events 15 minutes prior to being punched or anything that took place afterwards until the next morning. If that is so, then how can he know that he was not the last one to see LS as he stated if he doesn't remember anything? I am pretty confident that we don't have the facts that can answer my next question, but how do we know that LS and CR ever made it to 5 North? The accounts given by MB and JR have conflicted at times. Could something have happened on the way and that's why there is no further video footage of LS and why her keys were found in that area? The 4:15 phone call could have been JR calling DR or it's possible that it was a "pocket call" as Tony suggested earlier. It is possible that JR called DR earlier that evening to invite him over and that was the last # dialed on his phone, making it plausible for a "pocket call" later on.

 

[Walker]

The issue I have had with that story, from day one, is that LS, if truly "bothered" by Rossman would not have left with him. If he was bothering her/being aggressive and some white knight knocked him in the face their evening together would have been over. LS leaving with him suggests she was the furthest thing from bothered. The boys went after CR for another reason; likely the fact that LS and CR were being handsy and LS "belonged" to JW.

Very old-fashioned & traditionalist attitude, esp. given that LS & JW were not engaged. Maybe CR had also offended them in some other way.

 

[dodie20]

Very old-fashioned & traditionalist attitude, esp. given that LS & JW were not engaged. Maybe CR had also offended them in some other way.

I don't think it's necessarily old fashioned, but it's hard for me to imagine things going down like they have been reported. If this group was real tight and this new guy wasn't a part of the group, I could see them being angry, but this fight didn't seem to go anywhere. Somebody hit him, fight was over and they parted ways. If LS was drunk, and the fight was over her, I think her friends would have persuaded her to stay. If they were the type of people to fight over her, then I think they'd be the type to finish the job, so to speak. And I would think LE is looking real closely at the amnesia story. Out of everthing I've read or heard, the amnesia is the most mind boggling, IMO.

 

[Lilcheese]

Hi...I've been following since Lauren's disappearance, but this is my first post here. Doesn't anyone find it odd that a 90 lb. 4'11" girl who is supposedly wasted can help a man who was just punched in the face walk home? I also find it curious that CR has no memory of events 15 minutes prior to being punched or anything that took place afterwards until the next morning. If that is so, then how can he know that he was not the last one to see LS as he stated if he doesn't remember anything? I am pretty confident that we don't have the facts that can answer my next question, but how do we know that LS and CR ever made it to 5 North? The accounts given by MB and JR have conflicted at times. Could something have happened on the way and that's why there is no further video footage of LS and why her keys were found in that area? The 4:15 phone call could have been JR calling DR or it's possible that it was a "pocket call" as Tony suggested earlier. It is possible that JR called DR earlier that evening to invite him over and that was the last # dialed on his phone, making it plausible for a "pocket call" later on.

As for CR, the lawyer says it's from the fight, but we can give that up and just assume he got himself blitzed and had a blackout. Happens to the best of us, there are plenty of nights I don't remember for the life of me because I drank myself into a stupor. Dont' think the lawyer wanted to come out and say his client was drunk as could be, obviously. I'd call CRs memory loss the worst luck ever, and if I were him I'd be strongly reconsidering my drinking habits.

As for the timing MB says LS was there and brought CR home. JR confirms LS was with him. It is doubtful that JR would make himself the last person to see LS if he was not. There would be no reason to inject himself into the situation, especially as the very last person to see the girl alive. They are friends, but they didn't share a womb, no one is going to take the fall for a murder/accidental death to save their buddy.

 

[Pedrosmom]

I don't think it's necessarily old fashioned, but it's hard for me to imagine things going down like they have been reported. If this group was real tight and this new guy wasn't a part of the group, I could see them being angry, but this fight didn't seem to go anywhere. Somebody hit him, fight was over and they parted ways. If LS was drunk, and the fight was over her, I think her friends would have persuaded her to stay. If they were the type of people to fight over her, then I think they'd be the type to finish the job, so to speak. And I would think LE is looking real closely at the amnesia story. Out of everthing I've read or heard, the amnesia is the most mind boggling, IMO.

Cell phones don't get amnesia. Get his cell phone records and pings and suddenly his amnesia will go away. I would be surprised if LE doesn't have them already but I'm not convinced they do. I am most shocked by the lack of cadaver dogs searching everyone of those apartments and cars. Perhaps they are waiting for someone to crack but for the sake of these poor parents, LE needs to make some offensive moves soon.

 

[Pedrosmom]

As for CR, the lawyer says it's from the fight, but we can give that up and just assume he got himself blitzed and had a blackout. Happens to the best of us, there are plenty of nights I don't remember for the life of me because I drank myself into a stupor. Dont' think the lawyer wanted to come out and say his client was drunk as could be, obviously. I'd call CRs memory loss the worst luck ever, and if I were him I'd be strongly reconsidering my drinking habits.

As for the timing MB says LS was there and brought CR home. JR confirms LS was with him. It is doubtful that JR would make himself the last person to see LS if he was not. There would be no reason to inject himself into the situation, especially as the very last person to see the girl alive. They are friends, but they didn't share a womb, no one is going to take the fall for a murder/accidental death to save their buddy.

I believe the only reason JR fessed up to being the last one to see LS was because of the phone call he made in the wee hours of the morning. If they went through all the POI's phone records, they would no doubt find that JR was one of the last to use his cell - indicating everyone else was sleeping/passed out. But I do believe there is more to his fessing up that he saw her turn the corner because ironically, none of the city cameras saw her at all as she should have been walking home. My gut is on JR and/or JW - the jilted BF of the evening. It would be easy to rule out POI's by their cell records and pings. Does anyone know if JR had a car? Why wouldn't he drive her home? She was obviously wasted and had no cell phone (which he was aware of) so when she declines sleeping on the sofa, offer her a ride.