IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #16

[phantomthought]

Please, will the people who get upset with discussion of the possibility that LS is still alive, please just hit that ignore button.

The point of the board is to discuss various different theories.

Seems to me that the "friends dumped her body" theory is far more offensive, but then maybe that's just me.

I hear you.Its okay to suggest the VICTIM in this case was a drug user and OD without one fact to back it up.But suddenly you are required to back up your theories with facts.

 

[Tr.]

Seems like you are setting up a strawman argument: A wasted barefoot drunken girl could not go all the way to Israel with no money!


Her medication (the only item she really needed) has not been accounted for per the news clip which I linked.

The rest of her belongings were all easily replaceable.

Yes, people do run away, and not tell their parents; but no, that does not mean that they are evil and heartless.

Why is it such a big deal that she can't be in Israel?

Talk about protesting too much.

My suggestion is that LS may have planned to leave ahead of time, and may have had assistance in getting a ride to an airport.

It is a big deal for several reasons:

Many volunteers, professionals, and agencies are utilizing vast amounts of resources to find this child.
Many people are putting a great amount of time and effort into trying to make sense of what few FACTS are available.

There is absolutely nothing in the released evidence that indicates LS was ever planning, attempting, or even considering sneaking out of the city of Bloomington to go anywhere.
If there were ANY indication whatsoever that LS were in another state or in another country then this case would automatically fall under F.B.I. jurisdiction.
The F.B.I has acknowledged that this is BPD's case.

You spoke of a 20 yr old not necessarily communicating with her family on a daily basis....Lauren's MOTHER says she did.

While your theory is not impossible, it directly contradicts known facts.
So...if all you want to do is show us all that she COULD be in Israel then congrads you've completed your task.
However, your arguments do not serve to disprove that she isn't in Tibet, Ireland, Australia, or Africa.

You spoke of cost/reward ratios. IF you are wrong and LS is not in Israel, and she hasn't fallen into some unseen dark place that we haven't thought to search, then it is likely that a kidnapper or killer is roaming free...and we don't know what their intent is.

Do we direct our scarce resources to searching Israel in HOPE that she's there or do we follow the lead of LE and search for evidence that will lead to LS or a suspect here and possibly remove a perp from the streets before they harm another child.
Where do you see the most value?

 

[Barry]

OK, I am going back to musing on JW. I know that many people have completely ruled him out. No evidence - that I know. But we do know that his house was re-visited as late as last week with some type of scent dogs. So, it seems to me that LE aren't as quick as us to rule him out.
In an earlier post I quote HT and her timeline that she said JW found out LS' phone was at Kilroys at 3, but that he called her for the key to check on LS at 2PM. Was that a mistake.. or not? Also, this is the interview that clearly says it wasn't him that went to LE to file the report, it was AR and another girlfriend to file the report.
All along my hinky meter goes up because it seems that HT just tries a little too hard to make it seem that he is not involved. (she adds that he didn't go to LE because he was calling her family).
I also find the wording extremely odd about JR. She claims that JR told her that he was the last to see LS. "AND I BELIEVE HIM" she adds. Odd. Just very odd. Hinky meter and all.

FWIW, I have not ruled JW out, directly or indirectly.

 

[Janeumayer]

Pigeon Hill. What a coinkydink that you ask because I searched there and beyond in my car yesterday for at least an hour. Roughly it starts at 11th to 17th; from the west it begins about two blocks from 5 North.

It's the bad part of town. It contains Crestmont Park, a large subsidized housing project where I would suspect that crime and drugs are an issue, but I honestly don't know. (I don't read the local newspaper much.) The homes are small, old, many unkempt with junk and trash but some with charm and potential. I think the residents are a mix of retired, lower income/unemployed, singles and small families. There are some misc. apartment buildings but doubt that many professionals or students live there.

Yesterday I discovered Arlington Park, a very dark, old mobile home park. I've lived in Btown for years and years. I never even knew it existed. I drove through it and up down streets around it. I kept seeing locked sheds and old parked cars...I saw a tent bunched up next to a shed and a car trailer behind a house and it made me think of Jacee Dugard (I think is her name).

You get the pic.

I also keep thinking about the scream and the "Hill". How can we figure out who the reporter was, that walked with the transient man? Supposedly, there were a few transient people who heard the scream.

My theory is that Lauren walked through the Alley back to Smallwood and met with an abductor. That is where the scent trail ended.

 

[elmomom]

I also keep thinking about the scream and the "Hill". How can we figure out who the reporter was, that walked with the transient man? Supposedly, there were a few transient people who heard the scream.

My theory is that Lauren walked through the Alley back to Smallwood and met with an abductor. That is where the scent trail ended.

IU student Lauren Spierer search: Checking tips, rumors
By Bob Zaltsberg [email protected]

Looks like the author of the article has his email listed. I was thinking of emailing him until I decided it was too unlikely to be real.

Where did you hear that there were a few people who heard it?
And, where did you hear that the scent trail ended there? - I heard that too, but I was just asking if you remember where since I don't.

 

[Walker]

Then she would not have to have been smuggled on and therefore her records would be public. All of these indicate having public records of her whereabouts and where she went. As there are none, that would rule out a trip via airplane to anywhere.

Specifically, what public records are you talking about?

Now, as someone else has already stated this, and your reply was that perhaps she was 'smuggled' on (if you really want me to, I can go find the quote), please refer to my 'terrorist' comments as to object to that line.

I never suggested that someone smuggled LS onto a plane.

The initial suggestion does not trouble me. However, the persistant badgering of the idea, without conceding anyone else's evidence to refute your theory, is troubling.

Please just hit the ignore.

If you have as open of a mind to consider such a theory, please keep that mind open enough to see everything pointing against it and conceding that it is highly highly highly unlikely. And use that 'outside the box' mind to come up with another, more probable, theory.

We don't know enough about the situation to assign probabilities.

 

[sv614]

:waitasec: I just caught a mess up in either the reporting of what HT said, or in the time line that HT gave.
link:
http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...isappearance?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|News|p

3 PM
then:
Now it's 2 PM?

"Jesse was texting Lauren the next day to see where she was, but he got no answer because the bar had her phone," Tamir said. "After a few texts, the bar texted Jesse back saying your friend left her phone here, tell her to come get it."

That was about 3 p.m., Tamir said.

Tamir said that's when Wolff contacted her and one of her girlfriends, "asking us if we heard from her."

"We both said we didn't," she said, "and I was in class so he asked me if he could come get my key from me just to check if she was still sleeping in the apartment because it was around 2 p.m. then, and we all sleep late."

What time was her class? That might lead to something.

My college courses were only 50 or 75 minutes depending on the day (I did not go to IU). The texts should correlate with her class schedule. Hope LE checked that one out.

 

[Janeumayer]

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...isappearance?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|News|p



Additionally, he also asked LS to stay on his couch, and made some comment about if she stumbled, he would not let her leave, or something to that effect.

I take this as hearsay.

 

[phantomthought]

I also keep thinking about the scream and the "Hill". How can we figure out who the reporter was, that walked with the transient man? Supposedly, there were a few transient people who heard the scream.

My theory is that Lauren walked through the Alley back to Smallwood and met with an abductor. That is where the scent trail ended.

I wonder what route did she take from smallwood to JR's the first time she went their.Did she go up college or go thru the alley?If she went thru the alley you would figure the dog would pick up the scent thru the parking lot from that trip?If she went up college the first time with DR and walked back on college the second time according to JR why did she walk thru the alley with CR?

 

[Janeumayer]

Looks like the author of the article has his email listed. I was thinking of emailing him until I decided it was too unlikely to be real.

Where did you hear that there were a few people who heard it?
And, where did you hear that the scent trail ended there? - I heard that too, but I was just asking if you remember where since I don't.

God, I would have to go back to the beginning of the threads. But I do remember it was more than one homeless person who heard the scream. I did google it a few days ago but came up empty. And I am 100% sure I read it.

 

[Janeumayer]

Looks like the author of the article has his email listed. I was thinking of emailing him until I decided it was too unlikely to be real.

Where did you hear that there were a few people who heard it?
And, where did you hear that the scent trail ended there? - I heard that too, but I was just asking if you remember where since I don't.

Would you consider emailing him? Maybe he can tell us where we can find the video of the interview? TIA

 

[Janeumayer]

I wonder what route did she take from smallwood to JR's the first time she went their.Did she go up college or go thru the alley?If she went thru the alley you would figure the dog would pick up the scent thru the parking lot from that trip?If she went up college the first time with DR and walked back on college the second time according to JR why did she walk thru the alley with CR?

We know for sure that she went through the alley towards 5 North. Question is: if JR was intoxicated or under the influence, how could he be so sure she went down through College? Hs apartments are half a block away from it.

ETA: Oh Sorry, I misread your question. I guess only LE, DR and CR know the answer. I would assume LS would have been caught on camera.

 

[bunnyesq.]

Y'all are right - I can only find the dogs losing the scent in the gravel lot in comments here and a few other sites, but no actual story.

 

[sv614]

I hear you.Its okay to suggest the VICTIM in this case was a drug user and OD without one fact to back it up.But suddenly you are required to back up your theories with facts.

The drug use and OD theory has been alluded to by Lauren's own friends (HT: "it went too far this time") and even LE ("we have heard rumors of a possible OD").

Mr. Saltzman, CR's attorney and former Monroe county prosecutor, made a public, on-record statement that according to MB, LS asked him if he wanted to "party" (read: use cocaine) at around 3am.

Eyewitness accounts have Lauren extremely intoxicated in the early hours of June 3.

There are at least two people on this board who have talked to people who knew or have met LS and/or the POIs and support that there was drug use amongst this crowd.

A reporter here has put his reputation on the table after having spoken to at least one eyewitness about LS's high level of intoxication.

We are not judging her, so no need to capitalize VICTIM as a reminder.

No, we are acknowledging the sometimes sad realities of even the most well-intentioned and fine individuals amongst us.

You can call it hearsay, but the OD possibility and drug use scenarios seem to be repeated and undisputed by virtually every side of this story. It has been the consistent theme of nearly every narrative.

The skipping off to Israel thing is an out-of-left-field theory based on what I believe to be stereotyping and potentially offensive mindsets of the individuals subscribing to it, rather than the narrative of this case and what little evidence we do have.

 

[elmomom]

I hear you.Its okay to suggest the VICTIM in this case was a drug user and OD without one fact to back it up.But suddenly you are required to back up your theories with facts.

Do you think that it is victimizing LS to state belief that she was using drugs that night? I don't. I don't see her any differently whether she was or wasn't.
Do you think it makes people feel less sympathetic towards her?
You see, it doesn't change my feelings. But feelings aren't what matter, the facts are what matter. I think the only importance about what she was doing is how it relates to her functioning at a given time, and where her activities may place her.
And I am sorry that you don't agree that there are facts to back up the drug use. I disagree.

 

[sv614]

I wonder what route did she take from smallwood to JR's the first time she went their.Did she go up college or go thru the alley?If she went thru the alley you would figure the dog would pick up the scent thru the parking lot from that trip?If she went up college the first time with DR and walked back on college the second time according to JR why did she walk thru the alley with CR?

Not if it was a cadaver dog

 

[Janeumayer]

I guess one way we could help is to post Missing posters of Lauren in areas surrounding where the POI's live, and all over IU. Keeping Lauren in everyone's mind could hopefully make someone talk. That is, unless she was abducted by some stranger, then we can only hope.

 

[Auburn]

http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=lNa1F5rGkB4


Did LS have a heart condition?

 

[Alliecog]

http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=lNa1F5rGkB4


Did LS have a heart condition?

Yes it's called long QT syndrome, can cause fatal arrhythmia
http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=81874

 

[bunnyesq.]

This is slightly OT, (maybe a little more than slightly ) but I was watching a Dateline rerun last night about the murder of Michelle O'Keefe. I was preoccupied with other stuff while watching, so I googled it today at work to read more about it, and I found this:

http://withoutareasonabledoubt.webs.com/

I think this is good example of why retaining a lawyer is helpful - this "perp" was pretty much railroaded. LE had nothing to go on, so they converged almost all of their attention on him - he was tried 3 times. I haven't read the trial transcripts, but one of the main problems was likely that he was questioned countless times and gave slightly different responses or speculative responses. You can use prior statements to "impeach" or discredit a witness at trial, and when you have someone being questioned by the police on many different occasions it's basically like giving them 1000ft of rope to hang the POI with.

I was disgusted by the Casey Anthony verdict, but this program, and then reading the other facts that it left out, reminded me that IMO it's better to have a guilty person go free once in while than have an innocent person wrongly accused and convicted.