IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #16

[bessie]

The bashing and sarcasm have to stop. Walker has as much right as anyone else to explore a theory. If you disagree with it, counter respectfully or just simply ignore it.

 

[holly2325]

FYI. Statement just released from Smallwood:

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/07/07/news.qp-7391348.sto

Thanks for posting this. I read a student review of Smallwood describing noise and odors which didn't sound too appealing but, I have to say, I am impressed that they were able to produce video evidence of LS leaving Smallwood and hard proof that she never re-entered.

........I would be most interested to see video footage verifying the time/movements of DR.

 

[Walker]

The only "professional drug traffickers" I'm aware of operating within the USA call themselves "doctors". AFAIK, there's no professional licensing program for crack dealers in any US state.

The word "professional" does necessarily mean legal. You can speak of a professional criminal to differentiate them from someone who only acts occasionally and on impulse.

In this case, one might differentiate between a frat member who sells some minor amount of (for example) marihuana on occasion, and someone who is running a huge drug operation.

However, the evidence available that illegal narcotics are involved in LS's disappearance falls under the same category as the evidence pointing to Casey Anthony's guilt: circumstantial.

Do we even have circumstantial evidence? How do we know that these POIs are drug traffickers?

Does anyone possess definitive proof that illegal narcotics were involved--at whatever level--the night of LS's disappearance? Sure, and those anyones are JR, CR, MB, ZO...

None of the POIs have criminal histories worth noting.

This might be a case where America's puritanical tendencies toward illicit substances is causing people who should know better to behave as crappy human beings--out of their own self-interest.

While obsessing over athletics, American college students tend to neglect basic health which is far more important in the long run.

A potential nexus to LS's Israel trip might be that LS indulged in various substances while in a place where they are plentiful and not as verboten as Southern Indiana and came back to the USA with a taste for them that to indulge she found herself hanging out with a nefarious group of usual suspects.

That's interesting. Israel may have lesser penalties for drug possession and trafficking (since ours are so high), but is overall usage of unprescribed drugs more or less common among young Israelis?


Are the friends really a "nefarious group of usual suspects"? They don't seem to be common thugs.

Or maybe she ran off and joined the IDF.

Or some kibbutz on the Negev, and maybe married to someone who is ultra-conservative?

 

[Walker]

So she decided party all night long

LS may have been "saying goodbye" to this group of friends. We do not know how much alcohol she actually consumed, or when she consumed it.

without a care in the world

People can be suffering terribly from emotional duress, yet seem perfectly normal to all but their very closest friends and family. We don't know what was going on in her mind.

at Kilroys, while clearly appearing intoxicdated,

How do we know that LS was intoxicated? And, if she were, would the effect have worn off by 4:30 am?

before meeting a pre-arranged 4:45 am car ride to Chicago so she could immigrate to Israel??

People have done stranger things.

Walker, why are you so insistent on focusing on this 'fleeing to Israel' theory, when it's clearly such a slim possibility when compared to the other theories?

<modsnip>

Examine the cost-benefit ratio. The potential benefit of finding LS alive far outweighs the possible expense of time and effort invested in searches in other localities where she has been recently or where she may have been likely to go. Publicity also benefits society by increasing awareness of missing persons. Since a lot of these search efforts & media coverage are voluntary anyway, the scenario is very high potential benefit at very low cost.

 

[Inspector Gidget]

Did anyone find out who the friend was that was with Rosenbaum that night and left?

 

[webrocket]

Israel?

first of all, she would need a plane ticket and I'm sure her family has looked over credit card transaction for an purchase.

second of all, you need a passport and other photo id to get on an international flight. there is no indication she had anything left with her when she was last seen.

third, I doubt, although I have no expertise in this, that either homeland security or anyone connected with an Israel-bound flight would allow a grossly intoxicated passenger on a plane, especially one without luggage.

in short, I do not see a grain of fact that would support this theory.

 

[Darcyline]

I haven't been here in awhile. I tried catching up as best as possible. I still think about Lauren every day and pray for her family. I sincerely hope that this is just the calm before the storm of finding her and then potentially punishing those that did harm to her (if they exist). I know that is probably becoming more and more of a long shot, but I have hope.

 

[rlc]

For me it's still also the simplest of theories...

Girl walks off her friend's house at 4am, drunk, vulnerable to stranger danger, some bad guy jumps at the opportunity to assault, murder and dispose of her body.

I don't believe the whole "the friends have a silence pact" or "she fled to Israel" theories...

I have to admit I have been struck by how on one hand, I assume it is unsafe to walk around by oneself late at night in a dark alley, but then when someone does it and disappears, I assume the danger occurred in an apartment of a friend.

 

[elmomom]

Since it seems we could use some more topics, I would like someone who has been following this from early on to fill me on on two things. First, the scream supposedly heard by a homeless person at around 4:30 AM. I heard it was discounted... why? by whom? how?
Second.. when I first started reading this thread, there was talk of a neighborhood that wasn't so great... something-Hill. Can someone tell me about that neighborhood, where it is, how far, and the likelihood that all of it and its surrounding area was searched?

thanks!!

 

[TonyGatto]

A different take on the Smallwood release.

The apartment building where Lauren Spierer lived, Smallwood Plaza, is engaging in revisionist history.

http://www.tonygatto.com

 

[Darcyline]

Did we ever come to a conclusion why Smallwood would be so resistant to helping the police? Seems strange unless they were letting a lot of underage illegal stuff to happen while guards looked the other way.

 

[Walker]

Israel?

first of all, she would need a plane ticket and I'm sure her family has looked over credit card transaction for an purchase.

We don't know how much cash she had available to her, or if some group or individual may have assisted her.

second of all, you need a passport and other photo id to get on an international flight. there is no indication she had anything left with her when she was last seen.

If she met up with someone, then that person may have had her luggage in the car.

third, I doubt, although I have no expertise in this, that either homeland security or anyone connected with an Israel-bound flight would allow a grossly intoxicated passenger on a plane, especially one without luggage.

If we were absolutely certain that LS were drunk at Kilroy's, we still have no evidence that she was intoxicated at 4:30 am when she may have been leaving Bloomington, and esp. not later on, perhaps several hours later, when she arrived at the airport.

HT's statement regarding JR's statement to HT regarding LS's condition may have been inaccurate or exaggerated: it's second-hand hearsay.

in short, I do not see a grain of fact that would support this theory.

Where is the evidence to support the other theories?

The dogs registered that LS was present in the gravel lot. Therefore, she may have left by car from that location.

No blood or signs of a struggle were found.

No screams were heard from the gravel lot, despite many residences close by.

No POIs showed obvious signs of the type of injury consistent with resistance to a possible abduction.

Again, no POI has a history of violent crime.

 

[Silver~Bell]

I don't want to me morbid or down, but has anyone checked all the buildings thoroughly - remember the sad case of poor Annie Le. And recently a missing person, later found to have gone into a ventilation system, and no, sadly, the decomp smell was not detected. Also the young man who was inadvertantly electrocuted in his dorm's power room, no one found him for many months I believe. I just think they should check the likely buildings as closely as they may. This case is so sad and baffling.

 

[Jupiter812]

Since it seems we could use some more topics, I would like someone who has been following this from early on to fill me on on two things. First, the scream supposedly heard by a homeless person at around 4:30 AM. I heard it was discounted... why? by whom? how?
Second.. when I first started reading this thread, there was talk of a neighborhood that wasn't so great... something-Hill. Can someone tell me about that neighborhood, where it is, how far, and the likelihood that all of it and its surrounding area was searched?

thanks!!

Pigeon Hill. What a coinkydink that you ask because I searched there and beyond in my car yesterday for at least an hour. Roughly it starts at 11th to 17th; from the west it begins about two blocks from 5 North.

It's the bad part of town. It contains Crestmont Park, a large subsidized housing project where I would suspect that crime and drugs are an issue, but I honestly don't know. (I don't read the local newspaper much.) The homes are small, old, many unkempt with junk and trash but some with charm and potential. I think the residents are a mix of retired, lower income/unemployed, singles and small families. There are some misc. apartment buildings but doubt that many professionals or students live there.

Yesterday I discovered Arlington Park, a very dark, old mobile home park. I've lived in Btown for years and years. I never even knew it existed. I drove through it and up down streets around it. I kept seeing locked sheds and old parked cars...I saw a tent bunched up next to a shed and a car trailer behind a house and it made me think of Jacee Dugard (I think is her name).

You get the pic.

 

[Silver~Bell]

Also, I hope the "flew to Israel" musings can be put to rest. Have any of you flown to Israel? VERY DIFFICULT! You are questioned, grilled, no one disheveled or confused or upset could possibly pass their psychological questions (for the safety of all), you leave a tremendous paper trail, and finally, you are issued a tourist Visa before you can leave the port of entry!!!

 

[bunnyesq.]

I wonder if she was put into a car by someone in the gravel lot. Makes sense if the search dogs picked up on her trail there but then lost it.

It would be interesting to know precisely when a search dog wouldn't be able to track anymore / a cadaver dog would be able to start. I read about this briefly on the internet, and recall reading that search dogs are specifically trained to pick up "live" scents, and they purposely not exposed to the scent (human remains).

 

[elmomom]

Pigeon Hill. What a coinkydink that you ask because I searched there and beyond in my car yesterday for at least an hour. Roughly it starts at 11th to 17th; from the west it begins about two blocks from 5 North. Be right back...

wow, I had no idea it was so close to 5 North. Are there empty lots and any abandoned homes?

 

[TonyGatto]

Also, I hope the "flew to Israel" musings can be put to rest. Have any of you flown to Israel? VERY DIFFICULT! You are questioned, grilled, no one disheveled or confused or upset could possibly pass their psychological questions (for the safety of all), you leave a tremendous paper trail, and finally, you are issued a tourist Visa before you can leave the port of entry!!!

I know. Respectfully Walker, do you know anything about EL-AL? They were locking their cockpit doors way before 9/11. They have Uzis at the ready. They DO NOT fool around -- and have been the target of criticism for their ways.

 

[TonyGatto]

Walker....

HT's statement regarding JR's statement to HT regarding LS's condition may have been inaccurate or exaggerated: it's second-hand hearsay.

Where do you find anything about JR making any statements about LS's condition?

 

[bx2]

I wonder if she was put into a car by someone in the gravel lot. Makes sense if the search dogs picked up on her trail there but then lost it.

It would be interesting to know precisely when a search dog wouldn't be able to track anymore / a cadaver dog would be able to start. I read about this briefly on the internet, and recall reading that search dogs are specifically trained to pick up "live" scents, and they purposely not exposed to the scent (human remains).

I was hoping someone could help find the source of this "search dogs losing her trail in the gravel lot" story. I know it gets commented on a lot, but I can't find mention of it anywhere and it seems pretty unlike LE in this case to let that out.

TIA