IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #17

[Jupiter812]

I didn't know there are lawyers only guilty people hire. :waitasec:

I was trying to make a point. I knew after I clicked "submit" that it would be only a matter of moments before someone called me on that. lolol I'm not going to have that discussion. But hiring Voyles is so unseemly if he's innocent. No, that's not a crime. Hope I've covered my bases.

 

[Thelonious]

had she died and I felt I had to "get rid of her" - the only thought I had is to take her, place her on the route that she would take home and tell everyone that she left on her own feet.

As someone astutely pointed out on another site, if you find yourself with the body of a person who has OD'd, the ideal place to take that body would be her own bed. That way the body is found and nobody else is suspected. In this case that would mean calling a trusted friend in Smallwood to let you in around 4:15 or so. Trouble is, he might be asleep and not answer, leaving you to come up with plan B.

 

[Jupiter812]

As someone astutely pointed out on another site, if you find yourself with the body of a person who has OD'd, the ideal place to take that body would be her own bed. That way the body is found and nobody else is suspected. In this case that would mean calling a trusted friend in Smallwood to let you in around 4:15 or so. Trouble is, he might be asleep and not answer, leaving you to come up with plan B.

Congrats on offering the first new plausible theory here in a long time. But what about the pesky two roomates?

 

[Jupiter812]

Congrats on offering the first new plausible theory here in a long time. But what about the pesky two roomates?

You mean the 4:15 call IS to the roommate, yes? omg.

 

[blazelet]

Again anyone who is a POI in a missing person's case would be crazy not to have the best attorney they can afford.

 

[Darcyline]

Has JR physically sat down face to face with LE and answered any questions or has all communication been his statements through his lawyer?

 

[elmomom]

You mean the 4:15 call IS to the roommate, yes? omg.

ok I know I wondered if HT and DR were together that night, but I am not sure that is what you mean..?

 

[elmomom]

Has JR physically sat down face to face with LE and answered any questions or has all communication been his statements through his lawyer?

I do believe that he, along with the other POIs of the time all sat down with LE early on before leaving town.
I will go off and look for a quote and be back if I find it.

 

[Skigirl]

I was trying to make a point. I knew after I clicked "submit" that it would be only a matter of moments before someone called me on that. lolol I'm not going to have that discussion. But hiring Voyles is so unseemly if he's innocent. No, that's not a crime. Hope I've covered my bases.

Someone talked about the FBI profiler who said it's not suspicious if someone who's used to relying on experts hires an attorney (I'll edit with link if I can find it), so maybe this is just revealing about my own background, but if I thought I might be a suspect in a murder -- if the police used "Person of Interest" in conjunction with the name "Ski Girl" -- after all I've read about false convictions, I'd hire the absolute best attorney money could buy if I had the means. If I were a man and the last person to see a missing woman in the middle of the night, I would not even pass "go" before contacting attorneys, so I really just don't think the hiring of lawyers is that revealing for some of the players (e.g., JR, JW). For others, I do think it's odd.

That said, I lean heavily toward the idea that she was abducted by someone she knows.

 

[Thelonious]

I really just don't think the hiring of lawyers is that revealing for some of the players (e.g., JR, JW). For others, I do think it's odd.

Agree. And it's especially odd for someone whose only obvious connection to the case is being with LS much earlier in the night (pre-Kilroys) and then not answering a 4:15 a.m. call from JR.

 

[Berk13]

Thank-you.
because of that i would put him towards the bottom, if not at the bottom of the POI LIST.

I am not entirely convinced JW should be at the bottom of the list just because he was the one to check her apartment. Let's say he did something to her and wanted to hide his guilt - that would mean he would need to play the part of the concerned boyfriend, doing things like checking her apartment, continuing to send her texts saying "where are you", contacting her roommate, etc.

A lot of people have pointed out how quick he was to assume she was "missing", and that definitely makes me a little bit suspicious. I personally can't put him at the bottom of the list yet.

 

[Darcyline]

I do believe that he, along with the other POIs of the time all sat down with LE early on before leaving town.
I will go off and look for a quote and be back if I find it.

Thank you if you do find it! I feel like I may be getting confused because a few sources definitely make it seem like it was just written statements delivered by his attorney and that he left town almost immediately. It seems utterly unbelievable to me that JR, the last person to have seen her alive (maybe), hadn't sat down with police yet though.

 

[The Smurf]

Congrats on offering the first new plausible theory here in a long time. But what about the pesky two roomates?

I dont know how plausible it would be to:

1: Transport her body a few blocks
2: enter a busy apartment complex filled with college students, some who are likely to be awake
3: take her to her room
4: place her in her bed

That would take HT being directly involved in the cover-up and that girl would have talked. I do not think that their were more than 1 or 2 people involved in this. Every added person involved increases the chances of someone talking or stories not lining up. There is no way that their original plan was to put her in her bed. If she did OD, the people with her panicked and hid her. If they took her 30-40 minutes outside the city they didnt even need to hide her well. They just need to hide her in a place no one has looked. That could be anywhere.

 

[elmomom]

Has JR physically sat down face to face with LE and answered any questions or has all communication been his statements through his lawyer?

This took awhile!

In this June 8th presser, it is completely clear that LE has spoken to JR and he told them he watched or walked up her up the street a little bit and last saw her on 11th and College. It is obviously JR that he is talking about. It is during the Q&A and there are 2 questions back to back.
http://idsnews.com/news/multimedia/media.aspx?id=39540&type=m

Also,

Lieutenant Bill Parker said the Bloomington Police have conducted polygraph tests with the people who were with Lauren the night she disappeared. “We have spoken to the acquaintances that were with her in going up to the other apartment on 11th, and then the acquaintance that watched her walk away, but I don’t want to [say] what was stated at this point"

http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/camera-recorded-information-missing-iu-student/

 

[Jupiter812]

ok I know I wondered if HT and DR were together that night, but I am not sure that is what you mean..?

No but I've heard of that possibility. What I was thinking is he calls her directly then she later reports the call was to DR. Course that would blow any budding romance and create cell record problem.

 

[Missing Budweiser]

bessie- Is there a reason why the map to start this thread again included Kilroy's(the bottom portion of the map)?

 

[Jupiter812]

Agree. And it's especially odd for someone whose only obvious connection to the case is being with LS much earlier in the night (pre-Kilroys) and then not answering a 4:15 a.m. call from JR.

Maybe he was one of the 3-4 people who were at JR's after MB put CR to bed.

 

[elmomom]

Someone talked about the FBI profiler who said it's not suspicious if someone who's used to relying on experts hires an attorney (I'll edit with link if I can find it), so maybe this is just revealing about my own background, but if I thought I might be a suspect in a murder -- if the police used "Person of Interest" in conjunction with the name "Ski Girl" -- after all I've read about false convictions, I'd hire the absolute best attorney money could buy if I had the means. If I were a man and the last person to see a missing woman in the middle of the night, I would not even pass "go" before contacting attorneys, so I really just don't think the hiring of lawyers is that revealing for some of the players (e.g., JR, JW). For others, I do think it's odd.

That said, I lean heavily toward the idea that she was abducted by someone she knows.

That was me who spoke about it. John Douglas (The MindHunter) from the FBI Profilers Unit wrote a really interesting discussion saying that typically upper management types, CEOs etc are used to relying on and seeking out experts to handle things they are not themselves expert in for thier day to day busines needs. So they tend to "lawyer up" with experienced attorneys early on even when not even suspected in crimes to "handle" the interaction with LE, and do this much earlier than other sorts of working folks (like me). He also recognizes that many people, and especially many LE people, see this as a sign of guilt, but he does not agree with that assessment. I believe this was either in The Anatomy of Motive, or the earlier book he wrote.

 

[elmomom]

Agree. And it's especially odd for someone whose only obvious connection to the case is being with LS much earlier in the night (pre-Kilroys) and then not answering a 4:15 a.m. call from JR.

I spent two hours digging through links already, so forgive me for not wanting to go find this one for you. But, somewhere... somewhere I did read that DR had no attorney at first. He did get one, but it was to handle his failure to appear bench warrant that he had to answer for sometime in June (the 12th maybe?) So, the lawyer he retained is really for that case, but has commented briefly on this one on DRs behalf.

at least this is what I remember.

 

[Jupiter812]

I dont know how plausible it would be to:

1: Transport her body a few blocks
2: enter a busy apartment complex filled with college students, some who are likely to be awake
3: take her to her room
4: place her in her bed

That would take HT being directly involved in the cover-up and that girl would have talked. I do not think that their were more than 1 or 2 people involved in this. Every added person involved increases the chances of someone talking or stories not lining up. There is no way that their original plan was to put her in her bed. If she did OD, the people with her panicked and hid her. If they took her 30-40 minutes outside the city they didnt even need to hide her well. They just need to hide her in a place no one has looked. That could be anywhere.

1. Transporting a body: This could be the 3:38 sighting. At the least it illustrates imo it's totally plausible. A limp woman's body over the man's shoulder, she hits her head, he talks to her as if to make it appear she's just drunk. The witness doesn't do anything about it because it's not that unusual.

2. I question whether SW at the hour is hustling and bustling. The security is questionable as we well know because CR got by and a fight ensued on 5th floor. A lot of the kids if awake are probably toasted. The carrier would take their chances for sure. But there's also a back garage entrance that I know nothing about.

I agree about the how the number of people involved being key to the success of this though.