IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #18

[British]

The rumor had them on/near the train tracks. Also in the direction of the scream that has yet to be verified by LE. Also the tracks that divide downtown from "the Hill". Not too far west of 5 North, so as far as how they got there if they were there (and its a RUMOR) is debatable. Could be evidence of a random, could be what someone known to LS would do to make it look random just as well, is my guess.

If, and I repeat, IF that rumor is true, then it is possible that the police may have some biological material that could link a POI to the case. That may be relevant, especially as the police asked POIs to provide DNA samples. I am wondering if all POIs (and any out of town visitors they may had that night) have cooperated regarding that.

Now, if that were the case, DNA analysis may take a long time sometimes and one can only wonder whether the results are back or not yet. Nevertheless, it would be hard to charge anyone for murder or rape in the absence of a body, even if biological material were to me matched to someone. But it might result in someone becoming the main suspect and increase the pressure. So, IF that rumor is true, it is a huge deal.

 

[The Smurf]

re the landfill search: I believe landfill searches are only done AFTER the investigation team changes from the search for a missing person to a search for a dead body. Initially, the search for LS focused on finding her alive. I'm not familiar with the Laura Giddings case, so I don't know if the early search was based on info that they had indicating that she was not alive.

Since we truly don't know what the BPD knows (or when they knew it!) it's hard for me to fault the BPD in their investigation of this case.

This makes absolutely no sense. Why would you search places like Lakes or the woods during a search for someone they suspect is alive? This isnt like the aftermath of an earthquake where teams change it from a search and rescue effort to a search and recovery. Early on in this case, LE was searching plenty of other places that were far more likely to produce a dead body than LS alive. Not saying the body is there, but it certainly would make sense to search early on.

 

[cspring]

Whatever the case-i for one-as broke as i am-would find the gas money to drive to bloomington to search the landfills in a second if they needed the help!

 

[Jupiter812]

Scroll down about halfway on this page. First photo is 5 North dumpster (as well as other photos if you haven't seen them before) taken by our excellent resident photographer Btown. Dumpster is directly behind the apartment building around the corner (your right) of the building in second photo.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6678941"]IN IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #4 - Page 9 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Not necessarily. I played baseball in High School and my right fielder dove head first for a fly ball and caught it. Dove on his stomach and just jarred his head a little bit.

We ended up playing out the rest of the inning. Maybe 5 minutes or so. When jogging into the dugout and started with some small talk and he started talking gibberish. Once in the dugout, he asked where he was hitting in the lineup.

Basically he thought we had just finished warmups and the game was about to start. This was in the 6th inning mind you. Obviously, he had a concussion.

It doesn't have to be anything big, and they definitely don't have to lose consciencness. Now, I'm not sure how common something like this is, but it does happen.

Sure, but it definitely depends on the type of impact and where the brunt of the impact was taken (on the body). It sounds like what happened to your teammate was some variation of this: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqlkpt9d89g"]‪Coup-Contrecoup Injury‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]. The impact (sudden deceleration, punch, etc) is shown coming from the front of the skull. (I posted a similar link in the first LS thread, but I like this animation better, lol.)

My point is that when a person is taking drugs which are known to impair memory, that is probably more likely to blame than an injury which may impair memory. I'm not saying that it definitely didn't, and in fact I have wondered if the particular drugs in question may have made his brain more susceptible to traumatic injury (/heads on over to PubMed to look that up).

 

[EOA]

Have read many to most of the threads but have not posted until now.

Wanted to mention a few items that I'm not sure have been vetted, but will post some separately to keep posting length short.

1) the basketball game that JW was supposedly at home watching during the evening, and the same game it was reported (though suspicious) that LS later went to watch with DR over at JR's.

-- the only game at any level played this June 2nd night was Game 2 of the NBA playoffs Dallas vs Miami. Per numerous MSM outlets the game was scheduled for a 9PM eastern-time start. (Bloomington is on eastern time though parts elsewhere of Indiana are on central time). Per basketball-reference.com, this game lasted 2 hrs 38 minutes, meaning, conservatively, it should've been completed by 11:45 eastern time even if starting as late as 9:07.

It has been reported in MSM and posted in numerous threads that boyfriend JW planned to get together with LS after the game, but that LS never returned calls/texts. Often this non-contact was tied into LS leaving her phone back at the bar. However the phone was with LS until likely 1:__? if not 2:__?AM, thus the timeline of LS's whereabouts compared to the game-time ending refutes the lost/forgotten phone as being the sole reason LS & JW didn't connect that evening. HT has said LS was with her until 12:30 AM which would've been 45 min-1 hour after the game ended (& could've then been contacted post-game), then LS supposedly went over to JR's from 12:30 until awhile later (again could've then been contacted post-game), lastly from LS/CR's arrival at bar until phone was separated, again contact could've been made.

Secondly, HT's reported comments that LS went with DR over to JR's at 12:30 to watch "the basketball game" are suspect. Again, this had to be the same game and that game had already finished well earlier. While they theoretically could've watched some taped-delayed version, there's no explanation of what any of them were doing from 9PM to 11:45 PM that would've prevented them watching the game live.

Finally, JW is said to have been watching the game, then unsuccessfully trying to get hold of LS, before going to bed at 2:30 AM. This account leaves close to 3 hrs unaccounted for between game-time ending and bed-time.

 

[elmomom]

Thank you EOA for your well laid out post. And welcome to WS!!

I have no working theory on what happened to LS, so I haven't ruled out anyone or anything. I can say that I am more open to the idea of JW having played some part than many people here. One of the reasons I feel JW has gotten less suspicion cast his way is that he had early strong support - I vaguely remember the Spierers having good words for him at the very beginning, and LE distinctly labeling him as "cooperative". His room mate has been known to post vehemently in his defense on the internet, as well as his brother I have heard.
I do find it strange that MSM reported that the fight with CR at Smallwood as being with "friends of JW" and now it is almost entirely believed that the people there had little if anything to do with JW. I also found it odd that LE did not want that story released to the public at all, and it came from the Spierers. Another interesting thing is that early on we heard about another encounter with CR after LS had gone missing. I had heard that involved JW and his father. No further musings about that story ever came about.
I do think that for whatever reason, JW has had a much better PR campaign in his defense from the start than any of the others (except perhaps DR). Maybe it's because he is innocent. Or maybe not.

just my thoughts, and again, thanks for yours!

 

[porchpile]

Regarding the start and end times of the NBA finals that night--as has been mentioned before, lots of people (younger people especially) watch sports on DVR. You can start later and fast forward through all the commercials. And since that particular game had such a thrilling finish, it's reasonable that they might go somewhere late to watch the highlights on DVR.

 

[EOA]

Trying to think through the mechanics of how this altercation involving CR /ZO actually occurred.

My assumption here is based on the timeline of CR/LS being on video as entering Smallwood at 2:30AM and being on video as exiting Smallwood at 2:42 AM as is posted on this site's maps per page 1 of each thread. It also assumes what I believe to be reported that the confrontation happened on/at/near the Smallwood 5th floor elevator lobby.

--Assuming it took CR/LS 2-3 minutes from entering front door, walking to elevator to hit button, perhaps waiting for elevator, rising 5 floors, . . . . plus another 2-3 minutes of same actions upon return, that only leaves perhaps 6-7 minutes for actual altercation.

--Was ZO/friends already waiting at 5th floor lobby for CR/LS to get off the elevator? If so, how did ZO/friends know CR/LS were coming back there and soon enough to beat them to that spot . . . .unless ZO/friends were already at apartment (with HT as a wild guess??) LE must have Smallwood video of when ZO/friends entered Smallwood themselves and what points they were on camera throughout the building at various times.

--How did ZO/friends actually get up to the 5th floor? It's been posted that a resident card code was needed to activate the elevator upward. Was someone in ZO's party a Smallwood resident? IF ZO's party somehow knew CR/LS was coming to Smallwood, they could've had this quick altercation in the main floor lobby and made a much easier/faster "getaway" than on 5th floor. And why exactly did the altercation occur here inside at Smallwood in the first place and not outside? Would they not have preferred this "fight" to occur in the dark/outside as opposed to light/inside, & where no cameras were? Unless the altercation wasn't exactly pre-meditated but more stumbled upon via 5th floor elevator encounter.

--Has LS's apartment been confirmed to be on the 5th floor? Which floor did DR live on? IF both lived on the 5th floor, could it be assumed that CR/LS were returning to her apartment and not DR's? Would LS's apartment have been empty at 2:35? (where was HT at this time?) Was DR's apartment occupied only by DR at that 2:35-ish time?

--How and when did ZO's party exit Smallwood? Presumedly they didn't all share an elevator down with CR/LS. If CR/LS went down the elevator first and headed out the door, it would again have required ZO's party to have known where CR/LS were headed, and passed them or beat them to the spot via an alternate route (on cameras?) to have possibly met them again near the alley/gravel lot less than 10 minutes later if indeed that happened. If ZO's party went down the elevator first and left the building first, they could only have known where CR/LS were going if they lurked outside Smallwood and followed them to alley/gravel lot. Again LE should have Smallwood video confirming the correct sequence.

--Did no other resident on the 5th floor hear anything, or peek their head out of their door, or call for security at this hour? Surely someone was aroused from sleeping or already awake and heard raised voices, punch(es) thrown, bodies scuffling, etc. Even in this environment of a college town, this type of event at 2:35 AM would surely have to be unusual.

I will say I have to keep reminding myself that all of these events occurred so late in the evening (entirely in the morning actually) and all while dark, and all so compressed together in terms of time. For some reason I keep picturing the evening beginning while still dusk, and events happening over a much wider timeframe which tends to give a different perspective.

 

[The Smurf]

"Finally, JW is said to have been watching the game, then unsuccessfully trying to get hold of LS, before going to bed at 2:30 AM. This account leaves close to 3 hrs unaccounted for between game-time ending and bed-time"


This time period isnt as important in terms of JW's whereabouts, though, because LS was seen alive well after 2:30.

 

[Tr.]

I will say I have to keep reminding myself that all of these events occurred so late in the evening (entirely in the morning actually) and all while dark, and all so compressed together in terms of time. For some reason I keep picturing the evening beginning while still dusk, and events happening over a much wider timeframe which tends to give a different perspective.

You make a lot of great points and raise some interesting questions.
I agree...seems like something between CR and ZO must have went down prior to LS meeting CR at JR's.
Others have raised the question whether ZO was at the bar when CR and LS were there.
Wish we could get some more details.
I too would like to know when/if ZO and crew left Smallwood after the altercation.

 

[elmomom]

You make a lot of great points and raise some interesting questions.
I agree...seems like something between CR and ZO must have went down prior to LS meeting CR at JR's.
Others have raised the question whether ZO was at the bar when CR and LS were there.
Wish we could get some more details.
I too would like to know when/if ZO and crew left Smallwood after the altercation.

And I would like to know if ZO and crew were at JRs when the party was going on before CR and LS went to Kilroys ...

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

I didn't see the edit button for my previous post, so...

Apparently cocaine doesn't affect traumatic brain injury (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15930397).

 

[Tr.]

I didn't see the edit button for my previous post, so...

Apparently cocaine doesn't affect traumatic brain injury (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15930397).

Would you happen to know the answer to this?:

If I do a Xanax bar at say 1:00-1:30am and then consume alcohol an hour later, have I done enough to my body to crash land at 3:00-3:30am?
If not than what other rec drug could I consume in addition to the X bar to accomplish a crash at that time.

 

[elmomom]

Would you happen to know the answer to this?:

If I do a Xanax bar at say 1:00-1:30am and then consume alcohol an hour later, have I done enough to my body to crash land at 3:00-3:30am?
If not than what other rec drug could I consume in addition to the X bar to accomplish a crash at that time.

Too hard to estimate this stuff. Most of it has more to do with dosage rather than just timing. plus, tolerance to Xanax is pretty common, so your reaction would be depending on how much prior exposure you've had. Also, how much alcohol and how quickly it was ingested.
If you were combining Xanax, alcohol and coke, the crash could certainly be an indication of the time the coke wears off. But that time is dependent on the dosage you started with. Sorry I couldn't be of more help...

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Would you happen to know the answer to this?:

If I do a Xanax bar at say 1:00-1:30am and then consume alcohol an hour later, have I done enough to my body to crash land at 3:00-3:30am?
If not than what other rec drug could I consume in addition to the X bar to accomplish a crash at that time.

By "a crash," do you mean death/coma, or a bad come-down?

Elmomom (above) is correct, but maybe I can estimate some general parameters. I can suggest which combinations of drugs might be especially harmful in terms of the heart or the brain, but I'm sure that whatever I'd come up with would not be exhaustive! Sometimes also a problem with talking about drugs on the street is that they are so adulterated that it makes basic research hard to interpret. I would suggest this site: http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/813255-overview to maybe give you some ideas.

 

[EOA]

Thought I would mention another thing which may be totally unrelated to the LS case, but you never know -- it at least gives background as to how I became more intrigued.

The Indiana High School state boys track meet was held at IU in Bloomington on Friday June 3rd. The meet began mid-afternoon and finished up early evening. The announced attendance was approximately 5000 people, and would've included many out-of-towners from all over Indiana. Some from the farther points away in the state would most certainly have arrived the night before (Thurs June 2nd) making the hotels near campus a bit more occupied than most Thursday nights in June would've been. There would've been a significant amount of out-of-area license plates leaving Bloomington the evening of June 3rd which is before the search really got going. If by chance a body was held for a few hours then transported out-of-town by car near the time the track meet was ending there surely would've been a steady stream of traffic from campus out to Hwy 37.

Chances are, these college student POI's would not have known any of this was going on at the same time, nor could've figured any of this into planning - although the IU website did post something earlier in the week in regards to warnings of increased traffic near the construction zones around the stadiums on Friday. This area is not exactly the same edge of campus is the missing person area in question, but I will say - as my high school son and I left the track meet parking lot and looked for a place to eat supper around 7PM that Friday we unknowingly ended up at a restautant right across the street from Kilroy's Sports Bar, very near the time LS was being officially reported as missing and the tweets from friends about anyone seeing LS were ramping up, so it's not that far away. My wife having graduated from IU and me being reasonably familiar with the campus, I remember telling my son that Kilroy's was or at least used to be a real hot spot for college drinking - then him telling me the next day what he just saw on the news.

Leads into another question. . . . As I recall looking across the street that night at the sports bar "beach area", and later pics I've found online - I don't remember or see any outside lighting, 20-ft light poles, etc that would allow for beach volleyball or other group sand-type activities after dark. Is it believable that beachy activities is the reason LS would've removed her shoes at approx 2:00 in the morning? Especially if she were at the bar less than an hour? How many others at a bar would be in any kind of condition at that hour to be conducting a volleyball game? (tho I do see where it's questioned upthread as to whether vb is played there or not, and of course understanding we're not talking competitive bump/set/spike volleyball!)

 

[Darcyline]

EOA-It is my understanding that you don't play volleyball, but there are toys. A few locals do say that people take their shoes off. It isn't unbelievable to me that she did take her shoes off though I do think she had to be pretty wasted by the time she left to forget them or not care about getting them.

 

[Tr.]

By "a crash," do you mean death/coma, or a bad come-down?

Elmomom (above) is correct, but maybe I can estimate some general parameters. I can suggest which combinations of drugs might be especially harmful in terms of the heart or the brain, but I'm sure that whatever I'd come up with would not be exhaustive! Sometimes also a problem with talking about drugs on the street is that they are so adulterated that it makes basic research hard to interpret. I would suggest this site: http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/813255-overview to maybe give you some ideas.

By "crash" I mean to the point of passing out...no coma or death.
Thanks for the link.

 

[Tr.]

Too hard to estimate this stuff. Most of it has more to do with dosage rather than just timing. plus, tolerance to Xanax is pretty common, so your reaction would be depending on how much prior exposure you've had. Also, how much alcohol and how quickly it was ingested.
If you were combining Xanax, alcohol and coke, the crash could certainly be an indication of the time the coke wears off. But that time is dependent on the dosage you started with. Sorry I couldn't be of more help...

So..let's say I consume one Xbar, 1/2 hr later some coke, 1/2 hr later two alcohol drinks...(and I know dosages are everything but..) How am I feeling with just the two drugs? And what happens when I introduce the alcohol to that? Will I even notice the alcohol?