IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #25

[Darcyline]

The story as told doesn't seem far-fetched to me. Imagine a loud, rowdy, dark bar. It would be possible for Lauren to ask for coke while CR was even there if they were speaking to other people at the time. He wouldn't necessarily have to leave. I also think it is possible she got kicked out without a bartender or bouncer checking out her feet to see if she was wearing shoes.
I also think she could be feeling out coke possibilities, but still not want to necessarily do coke with a creepy looking guy. Like, it doesn't seem weird to me that she would be asking for drugs, but have some standards about who she got them from.

I am basing this off of personal experience which may be very biased and I realize that, but if it happened to me it could happen to someone else

This case has been quiet for awhile and the thing I am drawn back to again and again is 1. Her being shoe-less and JR letting her out that door and 2. The fact that the last time she used her cell was around midnight.
I know we have discussed both of those non-stop, but they bother me. A lot.

 

[AbbeyR]

What is an "eight ball"?

1/8 oz. of coke

ETA: Darcyline, I agree about the sketchy dude part... it's more that I find it hard to believe that two random people, who don't know each other would be talking loudly to other strangers about finding coke. People usually are fairly discreet about these things, even when at a loud bar. And what, the bartender was just lurking around them the whole time? Although... i did get the sense from TG's kilroy witness story that it may have really been coming from someone who was with LS... I don't know.

 

[imkeylime]

Some thoughts about kicked out of Kilroy's
If LS got kicked out don't you think she would have likely said , I have to get my phone. The detail of leaving her phone behind leads me to believe that she left Kilroy's either in flight or thinking that she would go to Smallwood briefly and come back. And don't you think a bar employee kicking her out would ask, where are your shoes, and not send her out of the bar with no shoes?

It would be helpful to know why LS and CR left for SW ... to go to her place for $$$, privacy to do whatever, etc. I've always been hung up on her shoes/cell and wondered if she planned on going back, although the night was slipping away. Maybe she literally couldn't find her shoes and cell ... maybe she'd tucked her cell inside a shoe vs. left it on a table. Or maybe someone purposefully moved them ... playfully or nefariously.

I agree that a bar employee might have noticed she was shoe-less ... even CR might have caught on to that (if he could only remember).

 

[Jupiter812]

It does fit with reports that she was talking about coke at the bar. Maybe CR disappeared for awhile, as some sources report, to make a purchase or whatever and that's when the guy approached her?

If nothing else, this (if true) reinforces the thought that coke was on the night's agenda.

Keylime, when I heard this account, I did think of you and two comments you've posted more than once IIRC: They could have gone to Sports for party favors and a construction zone as a possible disposal area. (More on the later point later...)

 

[Jupiter812]

What I meant was, he would have had to follow them back to JR/CR's in order to be in a position to get Lauren alone at some point, and I thought that might put him on the video LE has of Lauren and (presumably) CR. And that if such a person was in the frame, LE would be looking for him.

If he did not follow them back to the townhouses I don't know how he would know where Lauren would be later and be able to get her alone?

I still don't believe he would have to follow them. For starters, I take my friend's belief of what happened with a grain of salt. This is not part of the Sports account, it's his personal theory. In fact, the guy could live on College Ave in one of those big houses. He could have been hanging out near College late that night just shooting the breeze with other kids. And as others have posted, he could have been present at JR's late that night.

 

[Jupiter812]

So I've sat with this new account for a few days and the core part of it still works for me. I don't mind the messy parts that some have posted about--I think they can be explained if you step back from it and they are certainly not problematic enough for me to discount the story.

One thing though struck me when I heard it and it still does is the description of him as Hispanic. I was immediately concerned that it might be a mistake (he could mixed-race, Filipino, etc.) and that it might also be racial profiling. Then I found myself wondering what an Hispanic dude would be doing at Sports (my stereotype). He could be a student like any other, he could be an International, he could be a local, he could also be a legal or illegal alien construction worker. I know for a fact the big project across from 5 North had Hispanic workers. The first day I visited the area, they were filling the trench around the perimeter of the building with gravel. Of course I imagined her under the gravel. However, I do not believe that is what happened and I don't believe she is there.

 

[imkeylime]

So I've sat with this new account for a few days and the core part of it still works for me. I don't mind the messy parts that some have posted about--I think they can be explained if you step back from it and they are certainly not problematic enough for me to discount the story.

One thing though struck me when I heard it and it still does is the description of him as Hispanic. I was immediately concerned that it might be a mistake (he could mixed-race, Filipino, etc.) and that it might also be racial profiling. Then I found myself wondering what an Hispanic dude would be doing at Sports (my stereotype). He could be a student like any other, he could be an International, he could be a local, he could also be a legal or illegal alien construction worker. I know for a fact the big project across from 5 North had Hispanic workers. The first day I visited the area, they were filling the trench around the perimeter of the building with gravel. Of course I imagined her under the gravel. However, I do not believe that is what happened and I don't believe she is there.

Well, as you said the Hispanic guy could be any of the above. What strikes me about the construction zone is that it might be a place for a person to watch/wait for LS or even meet up with her to do drugs, if said person didn't live on/near campus. Not saying that relates to the guy your friend described ... just that it might be a convenient spot.

But while the construction zone interests me, I'm starting to wonder if it's a transference of sorts. There's an old concrete "labyrinth" under an abandoned train depot in my town. It's not a construction zone, but it reminds me of one (it's pretty scary, IMO). Kids like to hang out there and party. But those are kids w/o places of their own, which differs.

 

[Jupiter812]

Well, as you said the Hispanic guy could be any of the above. What strikes me about the construction zone is that it might be a place for a person to watch/wait for LS or even meet up with her to do drugs, if said person didn't live on/near campus. Not saying that relates to the guy your friend described ... just that it might be a convenient spot.

Yes. He could even sleep there or in a storage locker. He wouldn't be the only one. I don't know when the guard started his post at the construction site.

But while the construction zone interests me, I'm starting to wonder if it's a transference of sorts. There's an old concrete "labyrinth" under an abandoned train depot in my town. It's not a construction zone, but it reminds me of one (it's pretty scary, IMO). Kids like to hang out there and party. But those are kids w/o places of their own, which differs.

All it takes is having watched one program about how Jimmy Hoffa was possibly buried in concrete and it can stick with ya foreva. :crazy:

 

[imkeylime]

Yes. He could even sleep there or in a storage locker. He wouldn't be the only one. I don't know when the guard started his post at the construction site.



All it takes is having watched one program about how Jimmy Hoffa was possibly buried in concrete and it can stick with ya foreva. :crazy:

LOL, but yeah ... concrete is scary. (Ironically, I waited tables during college for the restaurant chain JH disappeared from ...)

 

[phantomthought]

Some thoughts about kicked out of Kilroy's
If LS got kicked out don't you think she would have likely said , I have to get my phone. The detail of leaving her phone behind leads me to believe that she left Kilroy's either in flight or thinking that she would go to Smallwood briefly and come back. And don't you think a bar employee kicking her out would ask, where are your shoes, and not send her out of the bar with no shoes?

Where are all the people that where at kilroy's that night when all of this stuff was happening?At least 6 major news organizations in bloomington and her own home town investing considerable ink to this story and not one interview with someone that was there that night and confirms any of this.Not one story that a reputable news organization is willing to stand behind.Instead we get "It is rumored" she did this that and the other thing.They managed to interview the guy who found her Keys.People that were at smallwood when the altercation happened.Yet she is in this public place with all these people around and nothing.When Shawn Cohen of the Journal News reported on the tape of her leaving smallwood at least he put his reputation on the line.I have not seen one reporter willing do the same thing when it comes to LS behavior while she was at Kilroy's.

 

[LongTallTexan]

Where are all the people that where at kilroy's that night when all of this stuff was happening?At least 6 major news organizations in bloomington and her own home town investing considerable ink to this story and not one interview with someone that was there that night and confirms any of this.Not one story that a reputable news organization is willing to stand behind.Instead we get "It is rumored" she did this that and the other thing.They managed to interview the guy who found her Keys.People that were at smallwood when the altercation happened.Yet she is in this public place with all these people around and nothing.When Shawn Cohen of the Journal News reported on the tape of her leaving smallwood at least he put his reputation on the line.I have not seen one reporter willing do the same thing when it comes to LS behavior while she was at Kilroy's.

Agreed, time to start putting some pressure on the folks who were witnesses/involved, but who are not lawyered up and get some dialog going....it's almost as if EVERYONE knows what happened and no one wants to talk. Time to stir the pot!

 

[bx2]

Agreed, time to start putting some pressure on the folks who were witnesses/involved, but who are not lawyered up and get some dialog going....it's almost as if EVERYONE knows what happened and no one wants to talk. Time to stir the pot!

I think these types of questions have to be coming from LE and not from the media though. I can't imagine witnesses are wanting to come forward and shine any sort of negative light on her in a public fashion.

But as to the above comment, absolutely yes. There is tons of video out there. Quit using it solely to look where LS might appear and start using it to identify people that can provide an account of what they may have seen or heard at the time.

*oh and I should probably edit to stipulate this may very well be in progress.

 

[LongTallTexan]

At this point, if I'm CS or RS...I'm not real concerned about WHO asks the questions. If it were, I have to assume I'd be asking, relentlesslty. However, I agree with your statement, it should be coming from LE, but it just doesn't seem like it is...they don't have enough to have a suspect which at this juncture is not good enough (for me).

 

[Walker]

So I've sat with this new account for a few days and the core part of it still works for me. I don't mind the messy parts that some have posted about--I think they can be explained if you step back from it and they are certainly not problematic enough for me to discount the story.

One thing though struck me when I heard it and it still does is the description of him as Hispanic. I was immediately concerned that it might be a mistake (he could mixed-race, Filipino, etc.) and that it might also be racial profiling. Then I found myself wondering what an Hispanic dude would be doing at Sports (my stereotype). He could be a student like any other, he could be an International, he could be a local, he could also be a legal or illegal alien construction worker. I know for a fact the big project across from 5 North had Hispanic workers. The first day I visited the area, they were filling the trench around the perimeter of the building with gravel. Of course I imagined her under the gravel. However, I do not believe that is what happened and I don't believe she is there.

As the US Census Dept always states, "Hispanics" can be of any race. Perhaps the adjective just refers to someone's impression of the individual; his accent maybe?

 

[phantomthought]

I think these types of questions have to be coming from LE and not from the media though. I can't imagine witnesses are wanting to come forward and shine any sort of negative light on her in a public fashion.

But as to the above comment, absolutely yes. There is tons of video out there. Quit using it solely to look where LS might appear and start using it to identify people that can provide an account of what they may have seen or heard at the time.

*oh and I should probably edit to stipulate this may very well be in progress.

I would agree that it is possible people do not want to come forward.But IMO the reason the press has not been able to interview a single person that witnessed this bizarre behavior is because there was no bizarre behavior.I think LS was only there for a short period of time and she really did nothing to attract attention to herself.Has the press even interviewed anyone who even remembers her being there that night?

I could not agree more with your statement about the video evidence.I have been bothered that other than the white truck that LE has not asked the public's help in identifying one person or vehicle in the 300 hrs of video they claim to have looked at.I wonder if they would have even bothered with the white truck if they did not erroneously think it had circled the block.

 

[phantomthought]

Why a continuance?

Could they, in this court appearance, ask about his activities on the night LS disappeared?

I do not know about that but I do know how he could have been questioned at length under oath about his activities that night.IF LE had followed the advice of CR "high priced lawyer" and arrested the person that assaulted him at smallwood.At his trial CR would have to testify and not only questioned by the prosecutor but also the defense attorney.

 

[Jupiter812]

As the US Census Dept always states, "Hispanics" can be of any race. Perhaps the adjective just refers to someone's impression of the individual; his accent maybe?

Honestly, the acquaintance said Mexican and I took the liberty to use Hispanic thinking it was more generalized and more acceptable. And when I refer to racial profiling I'm using it as a generic term. Technically, I know it's not correct. Just plain prejudice perhaps.

This is an example of why a descriptor like "dark-skinned" may be preferable over identifying race or ethnicity. I recall reading a poster on TG who was miffed because s/he found it too PC when it fact, there's a good reason.

 

[Jupiter812]

Why a continuance?

Could they, in this court appearance, ask about his activities on the night LS disappeared?

I looked at the case chronology and what I make of it is they may be trying to come up with more evidence and character witnesses. But surely others here are more familiar with legal jargon and the process itself.

I don't know if they could ask CR questions about that night, that doesn't seem right, but I would certainly think it relevant for a judge to correlate use of alcohol and tragic consequences of that night. Also, I would expect the judge to address the fact that one of CR's public intox. rap occurred at the Smallwood parking garage and then how he later trespassed Smallwood the night in question and got punched.

If I were a judge I would make this connection and then ask if he was drinking that night, which would bring it back to had he done the PTD program things could have turned out differently!

Disclaimer: I know next to nothing about criminal law.

 

[plaidmom]

So I've sat with this new account for a few days and the core part of it still works for me. I don't mind the messy parts that some have posted about--I think they can be explained if you step back from it and they are certainly not problematic enough for me to discount the story.

One thing though struck me when I heard it and it still does is the description of him as Hispanic. I was immediately concerned that it might be a mistake (he could mixed-race, Filipino, etc.) and that it might also be racial profiling. Then I found myself wondering what an Hispanic dude would be doing at Sports (my stereotype). He could be a student like any other, he could be an International, he could be a local, he could also be a legal or illegal alien construction worker. I know for a fact the big project across from 5 North had Hispanic workers. The first day I visited the area, they were filling the trench around the perimeter of the building with gravel. Of course I imagined her under the gravel. However, I do not believe that is what happened and I don't believe she is there.

Would your average Sport's bar employee be able to tell the difference between some one from, say Mexico, and someone from say.... Columbia???

Since we are talking about coke and all.

Just thinking aloud....

 

[bloom54]

Would your average Sport's bar employee be able to tell the difference between some one from, say Mexico, and someone from say.... Columbia???

This is Indiana.... I'd say the answer is no... LOL...