IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #26

[cluciano63]

Didn't Lauren's mom try the nicer route months ago in another posting? i.e just tell us where she is...I think she is probably trying everything she can think of, JMO...and the guilty party(ies) are probably reading every word, unless this really was the truly random and extremely rare stranger.

 

[bessie]

The problem I have with the letter is if it's a random abduction then it probably accomplishes nothing anyway but if it's some horrible accident that has spiraled out of control then the letter isn't offering a lifeline. It's basically saying they want to drop the hammer on the person(s).

If someone knows or suspects a friend's involvement this type of letter is more likely IMHO to keep them silent, not tug on their heartstrings enough to get them to speak up. If someone is directly involved and this is weighing on them then without some lifeline being offered I don't see how this will bring anyone forward either. If anything it would strengthen their resolve to just get on with their life or else face the full force of the legal system with a high profile case and parents wanting revenge.

I think the letter would stand more of a chance of reaching someone and getting them to act if it said "We just want our daughter back. If this was some type of horrible accident that spiraled out of control, then talk to us....". Then offer a lifeline of some sort rather than a hammer.

If they could make the goal seem more one of closure than seemingly wanting to find someone to blame and punish then maybe someone would speak up. If they could do this in concert with LE then so much the better. Of course this type of leniency would be for an accident type scenario that went places it never should've went not for any type of murder/coverup scenario. But then if that is what happened no matter what tact the letter takes it isn't likely to bring anyone forward.

bbm

Charlene Spierer did offer a lifeline early on in the form of an anonymous post office box, to no avail. In her numerous pleas, Charlene Spierer has always spoken very directly to the individual who holds the answers. She hasn't soft soaped the situation, but neither has she spoken of punishment or retribution. Her goal has always been crystal clear: to bring Lauren home.

Through this entire ordeal, the Spierers have shown incredible patience, imo. Now Lauren's been missing nine months, and her disappearance is on the verge of becoming a cold case. I think her parents have reached the point in the road where they are forced to accept that the responsible party is not going to come forward no matter what they say.

October 20, 2011

You have the ability to end this nightmare. With every beat of my heart and every fiber of my body, I wish for Lauren’s return. You alone, have the knowledge which can return Lauren to us. While it took cowardice to take Lauren off the streets of Bloomington, I offer a coward’s alternative to providing the truth. An anonymous post office box. The price of a stamp stands between you and me. I am waiting to hear from you. Maybe today will be the day your letter makes its way to the post office box. We will never stop looking for Lauren. We will never give up. We are as determined today as we were on June 3rd."

Charlene Spierer

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-moth...new-letter-thursday-20111020,0,6298135.column

 

[bluebirdii]

I'm sorry for asking but can someone please post pics of the persons of interested, especially DR - I haven't seen pictures yet. My pc is very limited as to what sites I can connect to and mostly it shows violation and I cannot access pictures. Only have a pc at work....

 

[Skigirl]

I'm not questioning whether it's possible or not. I know it is possible according to a local expert who was interviewed by the local paper about CR's alleged injury. I was pointing out that CR's amnesia claim begins 15 min before the punch, not after.

I'm a little late, but I can confirm that in amnesia, often memories that haven't been "consolidated" at the time of the head injury are lost, too, so often memories before the injury are lost in addition to those afterward. How far back they are lost seems to be related to the extent of the injury.

That said, it would have to be *quite* a punch to cause amnesia, and/or a lot of drugs/alcohol, which otherwise usually cause some haziness and loss of detail, but not a total blackout for all events.

 

[Skigirl]

Except they wouldn't have taken the route at 4:30 AM. We're talking about the trip that LS and CR took from 5N to Sports, which happened around 1:00 AM. And it's not a "dead zone" at all --- Jake's nightclub is between 10th and 9th, as are a few other non-drinking establishments.

I don't know the area at all, but I don't always take the same route, especially if going "to" the place I have company and if leaving "from" the place I'm alone. If I'm alone, I'm much less likely to walk down an alley and much more likely to take whatever I perceive as the better-lit and safer option. If I'm with a guy, I'm likely to take whatever route he prefers, especially if it's shorter.

 

[bessie]

I'm sorry for asking but can someone please post pics of the persons of interested, especially DR - I haven't seen pictures yet. My pc is very limited as to what sites I can connect to and mostly it shows violation and I cannot access pictures. Only have a pc at work....

Here ya go, Bluebirdi

 

[akh]

bbm

Charlene Spierer did offer a lifeline early on in the form of an anonymous post office box, to no avail.

With all due respect does anyone really believe that anonymous PO box would really be anonymous? That letter would immediately become evidence and would be subjected to fingerprinting, DNA analysis, handwriting analysis, tracing on the paper and envelope to suppliers, etc...

The family very well could be totally exasperated but they can't vacillate between maybe offering leniency and sounding like they want to drop the hammer. One negates the other. Unless the family and LE want to come together and offer some type of limited immunity or limited prosecution for certain scenarios, and consistently offer that, I don't see them making much headway at this point with getting someone to come forward. I don't think the letter has helped anything at all except to understand the family's emotional state still.

It seems to me the best way for the 'flies with honey' approach to work would be over the long haul anyway. Let the situation weigh on people and if it truly was an accident of some sort and if they understand exactly what they can expect to happen to them if they come forward, maybe they do finally come forward.

They are asking someone to walk into a buzzsaw right now (or for someone's friend to push them into one). We might all agree that could be what they deserve for what they've put the family thru, but if you step back and think about the family getting some closure then IMHO this is a better tactic to at least try and stick with. At least for a scenario that at it's root would be the result of an accident and panic. If it's some other type of scenario such as random abduction or she was somehow targeted intentionally then the letter probably doesn't matter much what it says anyway.

 

[elmorejames]

So randomly late last night I'm flipping through channels and I come across a documentary reality show about sex slavery. The first episode I caught the tail end. The following episode was about modern day sex slavery in Detroit.

The interesting thing about this show was the facts presented that Detroit is a very popular city for this type of activity. Some resort to this because of high unemployment rates, etc. One thing they mentioned is the city is a transitional place for traffickers because it is the end of I-75 and a lot of truckers end up there. Also, it isn't far from the border of Canada....

While watching the show, it became apparent that anyone can fall into this activity, by force or by choice. Not saying this is where LS is, but obviously 1 if not 2 POIs, JR and DB have ties to Detroit. While we have no definitive facts about DB being named by LE, it did make me think of one thing, that no one mentioned.

What if DB really already left and never was at the Runcible Spoon at 10am. Is it possible for me, you, or even JR given log-in info for DB's twitter account, to place that tweet from any phone to create a suitable alibi?

 

[AbbeyR]

The family very well could be totally exasperated but they can't vacillate between maybe offering leniency and sounding like they want to drop the hammer. One negates the other. Unless the family and LE want to come together and offer some type of limited immunity or limited prosecution for certain scenarios, and consistently offer that, I don't see them making much headway at this point with getting someone to come forward. I don't think the letter has helped anything at all except to understand the family's emotional state still. <snipped>

I don't think they have offered leniency, only anonymity. I'm not sure how they could offer leniency, even if they wanted to...

IMO, even if it was an accident/ panic situation, we are long past that now. I doubt any letter or appeal to morality is going to convince the person(s) responsible to come forward at this point. The letters might, however, serve as a reminder to the person - and to the public - that the search for Lauren is ongoing. Or, possibly convince a third party with information to come forward or submit an anonymous tip. I think that if there are people who initially did not come forward with information because they were protecting friends, nine months is also enough time for loyalties to shift, for reality to sink in, and for people to grow up a little...

Re: submitting anonymous tips -- Early on, some posters in this forum detailed uber-cautious ways tips could be sent anonymously by mail (sending an envelope addressed in another envelope addressed to a post office, etc.) Or simply go to a public library and submit an anonymous email. Or call Crimestoppers.

 

[AbbeyR]

What if DB really already left and never was at the Runcible Spoon at 10am. Is it possible for me, you, or even JR given log-in info for DB's twitter account, to place that tweet from any phone to create a suitable alibi?

I don't think a tweet in itself would be a suitable alibi, but sure - anyone could log in with another username. Wouldn't the cell phone records give it away though?

 

[imkeylime]

So randomly late last night I'm flipping through channels and I come across a documentary reality show about sex slavery. The first episode I caught the tail end. The following episode was about modern day sex slavery in Detroit.

The interesting thing about this show was the facts presented that Detroit is a very popular city for this type of activity. Some resort to this because of high unemployment rates, etc. One thing they mentioned is the city is a transitional place for traffickers because it is the end of I-75 and a lot of truckers end up there. Also, it isn't far from the border of Canada....

While watching the show, it became apparent that anyone can fall into this activity, by force or by choice. Not saying this is where LS is, but obviously 1 if not 2 POIs, JR and DB have ties to Detroit. While we have no definitive facts about DB being named by LE, it did make me think of one thing, that no one mentioned.

What if DB really already left and never was at the Runcible Spoon at 10am. Is it possible for me, you, or even JR given log-in info for DB's twitter account, to place that tweet from any phone to create a suitable alibi?

I'm not saying this isn't a possibility, because Detroit is all you describe in some respects. What it isn't, IMO, is part of JR and DB's world. I'm originally from SE Michigan myself, and the metropolitan Detroit area is far removed (imagine caps here) from Detroit the city. Especially the part of metro Detroit JR and DB are from. IMO, they'd have ties to Ann Arbor or even Chicago before Detroit. Also, DB's family business has been extremely profitable in Michigan, despite the state's horrible economy (and the sad state of Detroit). I just can't see the motivation.

However, I do find the Runcible Spoon tweet rather odd, especially given that if DB was there, I'd imagine him there with JR. But if it's an alibi or a message, it's more about disposing of LS's body, IMO.

 

[LongTallTexan]

What I recall hearing about the group gathering at JR's is there was no alcohol. I translate this to mean at certain point in the evening they ran out. This could be a reason to go Sports.

The third party could be JW. They would protect him. Edited to add: JW is not really a third party so I would say: drug dealer. They would protect a DD.

It's possible there are several guilty parties in the group--guilty of different offenses (some moral, others criminal) and of varying degrees (providing alcohol, providing drugs, disappearing body).

I'll never forget viewing Lauren's Story--the video that was shown at the Shine concert. I gasped when the photo of DR appeared, not only because it caught me off guard, but it was a poignant reminder that he played a significant role that night.


Wierd maybe, but the more time that passes:

* The more I believe something happened at the gravel lot, but not necessarily that she disappeared from there; and,

* The less likely I believe it was abduction. Too much drama went down that night to have her snatched up off the street.

While we only have a framework of info, I'm convinced that LE has much more that would likely answer many quesitons, but they don't have enough, or the 'right' info or it's still too circumstantial.

I too believe that there is much more to this story than just a random act. Albeit any 1 piece of it can be written off as college life, a typical night, or for what ever reason not unusual to most of us, the night as a whole bothers me immensly. I believe that there are just too many incidents and drama for one night to not put more weight on the motive rather than a random act. My questions, like someone elses, is what was the history leading up to the evening. And while the last few hours are most important, I would even go back to the weekend before at Indy?

I hope LE has insight or knows answers to questions like what was going on with JW and LS, what about CR and LS? Why did she not chose to meet up with JW but did with CR? What was CR's insterest? Why did they leave Kilroys? We all know the line of questions, they all on these pages.....
but to lose her shoes, phone, keys, wallet, and be involved with another guy, then a fight, then back and forth from apt to apt...I tend to think there was more going on that night than just a night out amongst so-called friends?

Maybe, after 9 months, both LE and BD needs some help from the public!

 

[Jupiter812]

It's not like Charlene is sending these letters every day. There have been opportunities in between the publishing of the letters when she has communicated softer messages hasn't there, such as those in remembrance of Lauren. Maybe the perp would never come forward, or not for years and years anyway, no matter what deal is struck.

If/when she offers a deal, it will be one of the most--if not the most--important decisions of her life. If I were her I wouldn't be able to do this until I had an inner state of readiness. Right now she seems to be at a stage of war with the perp: mano a mano. I wouldn't even say that the goal is to get them to come forward.

 

[Jacobite]

I don't blame Lauren's parents for sounding off. They just want their girl back and people have been very cruel to them by not sharing details and manning up. I must say it is doubtful that I would be able to use as much self restraint if I was in their shoes. Now, let's find Lauren. Maybe it won't be as hard as we think because these guys can't be that bright.
Just think of the dumbest theory and that is likely the correct one.

 

[imkeylime]

I don't blame Lauren's parents for sounding off. They just want their girl back and people have been very cruel to them by not sharing details and manning up. I must say it is doubtful that I would be able to use as much self restraint if I was in their shoes. Now, let's find Lauren. Maybe it won't be as hard as we think because these guys can't be that bright.
Just think of the dumbest theory and that is likely the correct one.

Not only are the Spierers trying to find LS, but they're grieving and have no closure while doing so. CS could very well be at the "anger" stage of the grieving process. She should be angry, as you note. But I suspect that not having closure makes it worse. She doesn't really have an outlet for her anger other than her letters at this time.

 

[imkeylime]

It's not like Charlene is sending these letters every day. There have been opportunities in between the publishing of the letters when she has communicated softer messages hasn't there, such as those in remembrance of Lauren. Maybe the perp would never come forward, or not for years and years anyway, no matter what deal is struck.

If/when she offers a deal, it will be one of the most--if not the most--important decisions of her life. If I were her I wouldn't be able to do this until I had an inner state of readiness. Right now she seems to be at a stage of war with the perp: mano a mano. I wouldn't even say that the goal is to get them to come forward.

I remember one early letter in which CS acknowledged that something accidental might have befallen LS. I think at that stage CS could have been somewhat forgiving, under certain circumstances. But a lot of time has passed, and she's faced with the unimaginable task of grieving without having a body to grieve over.

I also wonder if her letters aren't her way of keeping LS in the perp's head, i.e., not letting the perp feel too comfortable. That might be the one thing she can do for LS and also herself at this point, since it allows her to work in a motherly capacity.

 

[Jupiter812]

I remember one early letter in which CS acknowledged that something accidental might have befallen LS. I think at that stage CS could have been somewhat forgiving, under certain circumstances. But a lot of time has passed, and she's faced with the unimaginable task of grieving without having a body to grieve over.

I also wonder if her letters aren't her way of keeping LS in the perp's head, i.e., not letting the perp feel too comfortable. That might be the one thing she can do for LS and also herself at this point, since it allows her to work in a motherly capacity.

I think you've nailed it, Keylime, on a lot of points. And you're so right about the letters being an outlet for her anger. She's a warrior and obviously writing is a powerful tool for her.

I admire how she is doing this her way as there really is no formula for dealing with something like this. It's probably easier to negotiate with a perp in a hostage situation.

 

[Ros]

I don't blame Lauren's parents for sounding off. They just want their girl back and people have been very cruel to them by not sharing details and manning up. I must say it is doubtful that I would be able to use as much self restraint if I was in their shoes. Now, let's find Lauren. Maybe it won't be as hard as we think because these guys can't be that bright.
Just think of the dumbest theory and that is likely the correct one.

These days young people tend to go to the internet for answers. I wonder if their computer histories were examined by LE and if any of them did a search on "how to hide a body."

 

[imkeylime]

I think you've nailed it, Keylime, on a lot of points. And you're so right about the letters being an outlet for her anger. She's a warrior and obviously writing is a powerful tool for her.

I admire how she is doing this her way as there really is no formula for dealing with something like this. It's probably easier to negotiate with a perp in a hostage situation.

I admire her, too, and so hope she finds the closure she needs. She's a fighter ... she reminds me of Barry King, father of the last OCCK victim (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120215/OPINION03/202150338). I hope her writing yields answers, sooner versus later.

I also think CS' letters keep pressure on LE in a roundabout way. Key evidence disappeared over the years that could help seal the OCCK case. I think that keeping LS' case "present" is a way to avoid that.

A poster once asked if DB's car had ever been searched. There's so much mystery about him, i.e., was he even at JR's, etc. I wonder if any evidence has been collected, apart from LS' belongings? You recently mentioned the gravel lot. Isn't that close to where her wristlet/keys were found?

 

[Jupiter812]

I admire her, too, and so hope she finds the closure she needs. She's a fighter ... she reminds me of Barry King, father of the last OCCK victim (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120215/OPINION03/202150338). I hope her writing yields answers, sooner versus later.

I also think CS' letters keep pressure on LE in a roundabout way. Key evidence disappeared over the years that could help seal the OCCK case. I think that keeping LS' case "present" is a way to avoid that.

A poster once asked if DB's car had ever been searched. There's so much mystery about him, i.e., was he even at JR's, etc. I wonder if any evidence has been collected, apart from LS' belongings? You recently mentioned the gravel lot. Isn't that close to where her wristlet/keys were found?

My goodness. The poor man has spent nearly half of his life trying to find the killer. I was watching Discovery Channel the other but turned it when "The Babysitter Killer" came on. I have my limits.

Yes, the gravel lot is where she lost those things. It's the open area, not the paved alley which is a corridor between the two big apartment buildings.