IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

[IUGrad84]

Something to think about- If JR didn't watch her leave and walk down the street why would he even lie and say he did? Wouldn't a better lie be to simply say he never saw her after she shut the door? That would increase the area and time for a random abduction and it would remove him from having to answer any messy questions about not seeing anything. That would be if he was involved in the disappearance.

OTOH, that type of lie might make more sense if he wasn't involved in the disappearance and embellished his story in order to not make it seem like he let her leave when she could barely walk (possibly not realizing things would turn more serious and her not found OK while he'd painted himself into a corner).

- Because JR was well aware that no cameras existed on the front of his apt. bldg? Strikes me as being a good place to rent if you're interested in setting up a party supply business.

- Based on the LoHUD.com feature, are we to believe that with LS' condition and impacts from several falls at approximately 2:30am - she was able to 'rebound' by 4:30am and make her way home? In general, wouldn't it take much longer than 2 hours for a 95-100 lb individual to metabolize various substances and walk unassisted? I recall one immature event at IU (too many gin & tonics) that took me nearly 7 hours before I could stand/walk @ 5' 7", 120-125lb!

 

[Jupiter812]

The Lohud map and the map provided by Bloomington LE differ in two respects:

(1) Lohud map does not show they took the alley from 8th to 9th. It shows nothing.

(2) Lohud shows them taking Morton after she dropped her things, rather than the alley. This makes sense because Morton has a sidewalk. I'm thinking the girls' apartment may be 10th and College Village Apts and the door and steps referred to could be the ones that face Morton.

 

[Fashionista_Gal]

- Because JR was well aware that no cameras existed on the front of his apt. bldg? Strikes me as being a good place to rent if you're interested in setting up a party supply business.

- Based on the LoHUD.com feature, are we to believe that with LS' condition and impacts from several falls at approximately 2:30am - she was able to 'rebound' by 4:30am and make her way home? In general, wouldn't it take much longer than 2 hours for a 95-100 lb individual to metabolize various substances and walk unassisted? I recall one immature event at IU (too many gin & tonics) that took me nearly 7 hours before I could stand/walk @ 5' 7", 120-125lb!

BBM. This is the one thing I just cannot wrap my head around in this case. This girl was tiny. She had no shoes. No phone. No purse. No keys. HOW could ANYONE let her walk home by herself?! With no shoes?!!! Nobody was looking out for her that night. Nobody. Especially as a guy, wouldn't you want to protect your female friends? Unless JR was not really her friend, how could he let her go like that? He had to have been wasted/drugged out of his mind to let a friend go like that.

I know Lauren was an adult and if she wanted to leave, it was her right to do so, but she should not have been able to walk home, alone, in the middle of the night, with none of her belongings. I would have at least called her a cab and gave the driver some money to make sure my friend would get home safely. Even if she sobered up enough, she still had none of her belongings. You would think that if she was sober, she would not want to walk home barefoot in the middle of the night. It just doesn't make sense to me. And if you sobered up, wouldn't you be like, "um, where are my shoes, where is my purse, where are my keys?" I would be freaking out. It sounds like she was just like, "whatever" and attempted to walk home. Just bizarre.

 

[Darcyline]

AbbeyR-Put that way his response (or their responses really) seem very coached. Almost like a lawyer came up with them to defer any criminal or civil culpability.

I wonder just how early lawyers were contacted. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was the first day or two.

 

[akh]

- Because JR was well aware that no cameras existed on the front of his apt. bldg? Strikes me as being a good place to rent if you're interested in setting up a party supply business.

- Based on the LoHUD.com feature, are we to believe that with LS' condition and impacts from several falls at approximately 2:30am - she was able to 'rebound' by 4:30am and make her way home? In general, wouldn't it take much longer than 2 hours for a 95-100 lb individual to metabolize various substances and walk unassisted? I recall one immature event at IU (too many gin & tonics) that took me nearly 7 hours before I could stand/walk @ 5' 7", 120-125lb!

Maybe there was a pharmaceutical 'wake up' involved at the last stop or two?

I know in hindsight it looks bad that he would let her walk home alone, but assuming she was somehow coherent at the point of wanting to go home (or at least leave JR's), I don't think it really strikes me as all that odd he'd just let her. It's Bloomington, IN not Chicago, IL. It would appear we're talking about people used to late nights and partying. Everything is relatively close and walking, even late at night, is not unusual. It's probably not the first time she would've walked home alone from somewhere. None of these people are striking me as perfect gentlemen or anything.

Him letting her walk out into the world at that hour and in less than the best of conditions just seems like something they'd do.

Of course, if she was in the shape the PI described earlier then it's certainly questionable how she'd even be able to walk on her own not all that much later.

Here's a thought concerning the mystery man and witness... Does the timeline work if CR and LS don't actually go to his apartment after leaving Smallwood? IOW, they go to the spot the witness claims to have seen LS and THEN go back to CR's apartment. Isn't there a gap between arriving at CR's apartment and then heading to JR's apartment. Wouldn't that fill this gap? It would only take MB being wrong about the time CR and LS arrived or just basing it on something he was told from the video.

If CR has no memory and LS obviously can't tell us the timeline and activity, then why are we all assuming they went directly to the apartment after disappearing from the last known video?

 

[IUGrad84]

AbbeyR-Put that way his response (or their responses really) seem very coached. Almost like a lawyer came up with them to defer any criminal or civil culpability.

I wonder just how early lawyers were contacted. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was the first day or two.

Darcyline - I'm very much in agreement. After watching the PI video clip from the LoHUD article again, other than being disgusted with LS' "friends" - it really begins to paint a picture of why there's been little to no cooperation from the liar/coward group:
- Their parents/lawyers believe it's only a matter of time before a civil suit is filed.
- Prosecutors may eventually have enough evidence for trial or years from now LS' parents may petition the court to declare her 'death in absentia' …
I believe a few of you mentioned a while back about Indiana laws, such as:
...furnishing alcohol becomes a felony if a death or serious injury results, and contributing to the delinquency of a minor becomes a felony if a death results from the providing of alcohol or drugs …

 

[Ros]

AbbeyR-Put that way his response (or their responses really) seem very coached. Almost like a lawyer came up with them to defer any criminal or civil culpability.

I wonder just how early lawyers were contacted. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was the first day or two.

Based on information recorded at the LegalPub site, by June 9, CR had an attorney, by June 12, MB had an attorney, and by the 13th, Voyles was representing JR.

 

[imkeylime]

- Because JR was well aware that no cameras existed on the front of his apt. bldg? Strikes me as being a good place to rent if you're interested in setting up a party supply business.

- Based on the LoHUD.com feature, are we to believe that with LS' condition and impacts from several falls at approximately 2:30am - she was able to 'rebound' by 4:30am and make her way home? In general, wouldn't it take much longer than 2 hours for a 95-100 lb individual to metabolize various substances and walk unassisted? I recall one immature event at IU (too many gin & tonics) that took me nearly 7 hours before I could stand/walk @ 5' 7", 120-125lb!

I question this as well. The only thing I can think is that LS ingested something else at JR's that had a counteractive effect. Coke? IDK. Not trying to push that angle, just throwing it out there. I've also wondered if they could have been drinking vodka and Red Bull that night, though IDK why JR would mention vodka but not mention Red Bull. But that combo can make you feel less intoxicated than you really are. (Link: http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/...0212/dangerous-cocktail-energy-drinks-alcohol.)

Awhile back, that was a popular college "cocktail" in my area. I'm not sure if that's still the case. I do find it interesting that CR and LS wanted to continue partying when they were obviously already feeling the effects of the night.

 

[Jupiter812]

If you scale back the 4:30 timeline to 3:30 then there is no mystery to solve about how Lauren became well enough to walk and it allows other possibilities to enter the realm of speculation.

 

[AbbeyR]

If the reports of Lauren stumbling, falling and hitting her head without even putting out her hands, etc. are true, I'm not sure that anything (Redbull, Coke etc.) would have made her okay to walk home alone a couple of hours later.

Also, remember early 'unofficial' reports about her condition and the drugs she (supposedly) took that night - those were about doing xanax. I think her symptoms could be consistent with those early statements about xanax and alcohol.

 

[Mergatroid]

Jupiter812: Can you explain more about what you are thinking? From your post at 8:17pm?

 

[imkeylime]

If the reports of Lauren stumbling, falling and hitting her head without even putting out her hands, etc. are true, I'm not sure that anything (Redbull, Coke etc.) would have made her okay to walk home alone a couple of hours later.

Also, remember early 'unofficial' reports about her condition and the drugs she (supposedly) took that night - those were about doing xanax. I think her symptoms could be consistent with those early statements about xanax and alcohol.

I'd forgotten about the xanax discussion. That with alcohol might account for her not putting out her hands, etc., since it effects how the brain sends messages to the body. It also can lead to memory loss (not that I necessarily believe CR), hence it's use as a date-rape drug. That's scary, too. (http://mar4ela.hubpages.com/hub/Side-Effects-Of-Xanax-Combined-With-Alcohol).

 

[Jacobite]

Many times in a case like this, the bad guy seems portrayed as someone who tried to be the hero. I was just wondering if any new heroes have emerged lately?

 

[doubtingthomas]

That was painful to watch. The interview makes me think that LS could have been the one with the concussion and memory loss. The sound of her head hitting, her falling on her face, etc. It sounds like ZO may have had it right ... if only CR had walked her to her room.

I'm not sure I am ready to give ZO a pass here. Maybe LS and CR were heading to her room when ZO punched him out. I thought the reason ZO punched CR was because of CR's behavior towards her. After watching the video it sounds to me like he punched him for what CR said to him not because of his concern for LS. Also, IMHO, if he was that concerned for LS,
wasn't there 2 or 3 other guys with him when he punched CR? Could they not have taken LS to her room while CR is lying on the floor? I thought that ZO was at LS apt. prior to her leaving for JR's. If that is the case then he would know where she lived.

 

[Jupiter812]

Jupiter812: Can you explain more about what you are thinking? From your post at 8:17pm?

Sure, I'd be glad to and I also invite others to chime in with their thoughts.

The vomit at CR/MB's apartment could be hers. She could have been taken away (not necessarily deceased) by approximately 3:30.

She could have also been taken from JR's by approximately 3:30.

JR, in his cover story, adds an hour to the timeline for Lauren to pull herself together and leave on her own.

Included in this hour is Lauren making calls which serves to attempt to prove that she was still there upright and alive.

 

[Jupiter812]

Do we know anything about the relationship b/w ZO and JR?

 

[Jacobite]

Lauren's friends have been adamant in stating to me that Lauren Spierer never ever bought
any snow. But, after reading the last few pages, it appears most everybody else has bought snow and it makes me think I'm wasting my time.

 

[imkeylime]

I'm not sure I am ready to give ZO a pass here. Maybe LS and CR were heading to her room when ZO punched him out. I thought the reason ZO punched CR was because of CR's behavior towards her. After watching the video it sounds to me like he punched him for what CR said to him not because of his concern for LS. Also, IMHO, if he was that concerned for LS,
wasn't there 2 or 3 other guys with him when he punched CR? Could they not have taken LS to her room while CR is lying on the floor? I thought that ZO was at LS apt. prior to her leaving for JR's. If that is the case then he would know where she lived.

I'm not giving ZO a pass, either ... but I don't think it was wrong of him to initially confront CR. The problem is that when CR continued being a jerk, it became a macho showdown instead of about LS, as you note. Also, regardless of whether they knew where LS lived, ZO and his friends could have tried to stop LS from leaving.

OTOH, do we really know that they didn't try? IDK why she followed CR out of SW, even ... maybe ZO's group was blocking the way or something. Or maybe she was worried about CR. Under the circumstances, I imagine CR was glad to leave with the girl, even if they were just friends (which I believe they were).

I suppose it's even possible that ZO had a thing for LS. You never know ...

 

[jjenny]

From the description of the night's activities, it sounds like she could have died from any number of things. Falling down, hitting her head-could cause death sometimes hours later. Heart issues considering her reported long QT syndrome.
Persons with long QT are told to avoid alcohol and if they do have it, have it in moderation.

 

[imkeylime]

Lauren's friends have been adamant in stating to me that Lauren Spierer never ever bought
any snow. But, after reading the last few pages, it appears most everybody else has bought snow and it makes me think I'm wasting my time.

Abbey mentioned xanax, which is something LS could have been slipped ... it seems to be a popular date-rape drug because it erases the victim's memory. With LS' heart condition, that drug in alcohol might have been deadly. Also, she may have bought nothing ... but someone could have talked her into trying something. Again, with her heart condition, the first time could have been the last time.

PS: I'm a bit leery of the word "never," TBH. I never thought my daughter would smoke a cigarette, for example, but a friend talked her into trying (thankfully, she hated it). That's a big thing at the HS level again for some reason.