IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

[Blythe]

So is this how it ends? We are to accept that she walked out of JR's apartment never to be heard from or seen again.

And life goes on at IU and everywhere else.

No body, no crime, no foul, no consequences, no conscience.

 

[British]

To me it was an alibi tweet. (if he is part of the crime/cover-up) Like look I'm just eating food like a normal day. I have also considered it was an "all clear" signal. Maybe once Lauren was taken away and that person(s) were now back in the vicinity, the others maybe waiting for that tweet before they started their "normal day" JAT Imo. Of course if he had no part in any of it then he was just tweeting to hear himself tweet.?

Based on what? What is the evidence that this guy was visiting JR? Just the fact that his was a facebook friend? Come on.

 

[Blythe]

To me it was an alibi tweet. (if he is part of the crime/cover-up) Like look I'm just eating food like a normal day. I have also considered it was an "all clear" signal. Maybe once Lauren was taken away and that person(s) were now back in the vicinity, the others maybe waiting for that tweet before they started their "normal day" JAT Imo. Of course if he had no part in any of it then he was just tweeting to hear himself tweet.?

The irony doesn't get by me. Everything has been "hashed out." Of course, British may be correct, we do not have much to go on.

 

[friendsara]

I think this guy is completely unrelated to the case. Not everyone who is linked to a POI in facebook is supposed to be his guest when visiting a place. My guess is that this guy was simply visiting Bloomington and just happened to know a POI. He was probably very unlucky that his name was implicated in a case for which he is likely completely unrelated.

DB isn't a random Facebook friend at all. He and JR have a business together now. Check JR's Linked In profile. I highly doubt he was in Bloomington and just didn't happen to see JR.

 

[Ros]

I realize there was a witness that seen them ay 10&college but that witness would not have known who CR & LS were there to visit with. If CR has no memory and LS was only other person there. how could BD, other PIs, Lohan reporter possibly known who they were there to visit with unless there was another person there...

Maybe someone more familiar with the layout of 10th & College could answer this one. I don't remember if there are cameras there and I don't know if the apartments have exterior doors.

 

[sweet_blush]

Based on what? What is the evidence that this guy was visiting JR? Just the fact that his was a facebook friend? Come on.

I gave you lots of evidence, and there is even more I can't discuss here, British

I also emphatically disagree with your opinion that LS didn't make it back to 5 North.

 

[British]

I gave you lots of evidence, and there is even more I can't discuss here, British

I also emphatically disagree with your opinion that LS didn't make it back to 5 North.

I may be wrong, but the reason I dont believe he is involved, is that his name never came up by the press or anywhere officially. As to whether LS made it back to 5 North, I may also be wrong. Impossible to know. But we agree for sure on one thing. That the whole story of the POIs does not pass the smell test. I dont believe their story for a second.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Where is it reported that she called asking for a ride?

Two freakin' blocks away. MB could have walked her home for pete's sake.

All these big boys and none of them could prevent a 4-foot-11, 94 pound compromised and barefoot girl from walking away.

It also would not make sense to leave SW and go out searching for a way back to SW. She was nearly unconscious upon leaving SW, by the time she was 1 block away, she was unconscious. It's right about here that she needed IV's, stomach pump and epinephrine. But no, instead she gets conscious enough to be sort of hobbling along with CR only to then go unconscious again face down.

Then we are to believe that just minutes later she is wanting to party, while CR is barfing and getting tucked in bed??? This is not believable. MB is lying, why? LS was worse off than CR, if he needed a nap, she needed an ambulance - stat.

If Lauren made it to JR's I could see MB, first seeing CR stumble in with her, and plop down himself. After seeing her state and injuries, I could see MB going to get JR or bringing her even alone to JR's as it was a short distance away. MB may have felt he passed the hot potato and was "off the hook". Except that his story is bogus and by being a liar, it makes him appear culpable of much more. CR may have been conscious enough to also help bring her to JR's, after all if she made it that far, it was CR that most likely brought her there. We know that she had 2 serious impacts to her head between SW and the lot. Assuming she actually made it to 5N, how many more times did she fall or hit her head? My thinking is that by this time she was totally limp and that seems consistent with being carried on CR's back as PI's indicated. Once at JR's it makes no sense to me whatsoever that she would then be conscious enough to then want to go back to SW alone in such a short time period. People don't go from slamming head unconscious to perky party mode in a matter of minutes. Then a short while later totally barefoot, phoneless sober, but visually unable to discern an ipod from a phone, to hoof it home (after just coming from there!).

Yes, as someone just proposed, it would be much more likely that if she actually made it to JR's that she would have stayed there.
Now, given her known observable condition, with or without the various reported drugs having been consumed, the inability to BREATHE could have come on rather rapidly, say by 4:15 am.

What hasn't been explored is, if we were to assume Lauren was "crashing" at JR's where would she be? The place has 5 bedrooms right? Would she be in one of those bedrooms? or would she be on the sofa?

Deaths from something as simple as xanax and booze are terribly common (e.g. Whitney Houston).

If she died at JR's I would tend to think that either it happened by 4:15, or... yes possible that it wasn't discovered until hours later.

Certainly dogs tracing a live scent would have found their way to JR's... but what about Cadaver dogs? I would want to know if they picked up any scent at all around 5N. If there was a corpse around 5N, they should have picked up something. Even though there have been posts about these dogs, it's never been clear to me if there was a scent at 5N, or anywhere in the vicinity, that would seem really important.

Then i could see JR, cooking up the story even for CR/MB that she left his place... so CR/MB would have no direct knowledge that Lauren passed away right next door. I could see guests of various kinds not wanting to be connected to this death and wanting to cover it up. Remember, we have hindsight, we have camera footage, witnesses, yet it's much less than what LE has. At the time, guests at JR's , even if just 1 Mystery person only had the face value of the situation... a very small dead girl who looked like she had also been beaten. That would look very bad, and calling 911 in a situation that sure seems to me like JR and person X would be taken into custody. There are a lot of people who don't want anyone calling 911 when they are around. These circumstantial factors: identity of guest(s), possible link to drugs at JR's(even if those drugs are not the ones that killed her, for example if she bought coke, but died from Xanax and/or Klonopin), her serious injuries may have led to a hasty decision to hide her body.
If something like this played out, then there also was a clean up. If she died in a bed, that would have been hard to clean up but JR alone or with help is smart enough to do it. My gut feel, because of JR's non-believable story of giving her the "if you can walk you can leave" test, and watching her leave from his tiny balcony is that he likely would have been a bit worried about her condition that night, and that she more than likely was there. If he was concerned enough to check on her, he would have discovered it soon after her death, maybe even witnessing it. In this case, he could have quickly contained any cleanup. Foul play would have complicated the cleanup, and in her beat up condition doesn't seem likely.

Now I know this again presents a problem since JR had no vehicle that evening. This would mean that he would have had help.
While the disposal in a dumpster is possible, and remains valid because of the lack of LE action on this, it just seems like a risky way to go. If JR and Person X were doing this to cover their tail, then putting her in a nearby dumpster could trail right back to them. Smart enough to clean up, then also smart enough to hide her permanently. But for me, it's hard to see JR doing all of this alone and without a vehicle.

Failing to seek medical attention for someone in your home, then covering up their death is not murder, but it is rather evil. Perhaps never enough evidence to get a criminal conviction on whatever even these charges would be... a civil suit might be the only justice here. Would not be surprised if JR has a substantial umbrella liability policy that would cover part of a settlement, and his #1 Indiana Lawyer could keep it tied up in courts for many years and whittle any settlment down to something amounting to pocket change for him.

Please as always, poke holes in this and explain why it couldn't have gone this way, because right now, this or some variation of it what it looks like to me.

 

[British]

It also would not make sense to leave SW and go out searching for a way back to SW. She was nearly unconscious upon leaving SW, by the time she was 1 block away, she was unconscious. It's right about here that she needed IV's, stomach pump and epinephrine. But no, instead she gets conscious enough to be sort of hobbling along with CR only to then go unconscious again face down.

Then we are to believe that just minutes later she is wanting to party, while CR is barfing and getting tucked in bed??? This is not believable. MB is lying, why? LS was worse off than CR, if he needed a nap, she needed an ambulance - stat.

If Lauren made it to JR's I could see MB, first seeing CR stumble in with her, and plop down himself. After seeing her state and injuries, I could see MB going to get JR or bringing her even alone to JR's as it was a short distance away. MB may have felt he passed the hot potato and was "off the hook". Except that his story is bogus and by being a liar, it makes him appear culpable of much more. CR may have been conscious enough to also help bring her to JR's, after all if she made it that far, it was CR that most likely brought her there. We know that she had 2 serious impacts to her head between SW and the lot. Assuming she actually made it to 5N, how many more times did she fall or hit her head? My thinking is that by this time she was totally limp and that seems consistent with being carried on CR's back as PI's indicated. Once at JR's it makes no sense to me whatsoever that she would then be conscious enough to then want to go back to SW alone in such a short time period. People don't go from slamming head unconscious to perky party mode in a matter of minutes. Then a short while later totally barefoot, phoneless sober, but visually unable to discern an ipod from a phone, to hoof it home (after just coming from there!).

Yes, as someone just proposed, it would be much more likely that if she actually made it to JR's that she would have stayed there.
Now, given her known observable condition, with or without the various reported drugs having been consumed, the inability to BREATHE could have come on rather rapidly, say by 4:15 am.

What hasn't been explored is, if we were to assume Lauren was "crashing" at JR's where would she be? The place has 5 bedrooms right? Would she be in one of those bedrooms? or would she be on the sofa?

Deaths from something as simple as xanax and booze are terribly common (e.g. Whitney Houston).

If she died at JR's I would tend to think that either it happened by 4:15, or... yes possible that it wasn't discovered until hours later.

Certainly dogs tracing a live scent would have found their way to JR's... but what about Cadaver dogs? I would want to know if they picked up any scent at all around 5N. If there was a corpse around 5N, they should have picked up something. Even though there have been posts about these dogs, it's never been clear to me if there was a scent at 5N, or anywhere in the vicinity, that would seem really important.

Then i could see JR, cooking up the story even for CR/MB that she left his place... so CR/MB would have no direct knowledge that Lauren passed away right next door. I could see guests of various kinds not wanting to be connected to this death and wanting to cover it up. Remember, we have hindsight, we have camera footage, witnesses, yet it's much less than what LE has. At the time, guests at JR's , even if just 1 Mystery person only had the face value of the situation... a very small dead girl who looked like she had also been beaten. That would look very bad, and calling 911 in a situation that sure seems to me like JR and person X would be taken into custody. There are a lot of people who don't want anyone calling 911 when they are around. These circumstantial factors: identity of guest(s), possible link to drugs at JR's(even if those drugs are not the ones that killed her, for example if she bought coke, but died from Xanax and/or Klonopin), her serious injuries may have led to a hasty decision to hide her body.
If something like this played out, then there also was a clean up. If she died in a bed, that would have been hard to clean up but JR alone or with help is smart enough to do it. My gut feel, because of JR's non-believable story of giving her the "if you can walk you can leave" test, and watching her leave from his tiny balcony is that he likely would have been a bit worried about her condition that night, and that she more than likely was there. If he was concerned enough to check on her, he would have discovered it soon after her death, maybe even witnessing it. In this case, he could have quickly contained any cleanup. Foul play would have complicated the cleanup, and in her beat up condition doesn't seem likely.

Now I know this again presents a problem since JR had no vehicle that evening. This would mean that he would have had help.
While the disposal in a dumpster is possible, and remains valid because of the lack of LE action on this, it just seems like a risky way to go. If JR and Person X were doing this to cover their tail, then putting her in a nearby dumpster could trail right back to them. Smart enough to clean up, then also smart enough to hide her permanently. But for me, it's hard to see JR doing all of this alone and without a vehicle.

Failing to see medical attention for someone in your home, then covering up their death is not murder, but it is rather evil. Perhaps never enough evidence to get a criminal conviction on whatever even these charges would be... a civil suit might be the only justice here. Would not be surprised if JR has a substantial umbrella liability policy that would cover part of a settlement, and his #1 Indiana Lawyer could keep it tied up in courts for many years and whittle any settlment down to something amounting to pocket change for him.

Please as always, poke holes in this and explain why it couldn't have gone this way, because right now, this or some variation of it what it looks like to me.

I think this scenario is well thought and a good possibility, but there are few potential holes:

1. Who would be the Person X who helped the POI dispose the body? How was he contacted? If there was a phone record police would have tracked him down. If he was someone else within the building, one would hope that LE would have also tracked him down.

2. Now the fact that there were calls to DR and one more person by JR's phone that morning (neither of which answered) gives credibility to this scenario. But also creates more questions. If it was JR calling for help, what happened after he could not get it? There was no record of other calls.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I think this scenario is well thought and a good possibility, but there are few potential holes:

1. Who would be the Person X who helped the POI dispose the body? How was he contacted? If there was a phone record police would have tracked him down. If he was someone else within the building, one would hope that LE would have also tracked him down.

This is a significant question. We don't know what LE has. I've never seen an official list of POI's, only what has been deduced on WS. Clearly CR/MB/JR are POI's, but LE said there were 10. Remember school was just ending that week and in the days following Lauren's disappearance people cleared out. By the time LE was on the trail, anyone at JR's was long gone.
However, LE may know most if not everyone who was at JR's that night.
But knowing "who" then leads to trying to follow their trail after that night.
If this theory holds water than yes I would have expected LE to track them down. However, apparently even the key POI's in this case were not forced to return for questioning. Without evidence, LE can only do so much.

But even if you knew for example that this person "DB" were there and seemed to be involved, at this point pinning anything on them would be quite a challenge.

2. Now the fact that there were calls to DR and one more person by JR's phone that morning (neither of which answered) gives credibility to this scenario. But also creates more questions. If it was JR calling for help, what happened after he could not get it? There was no record of other calls.

Yes, it fits. For example, I could see JR calling DR to find out "What did you guys take, how much? She's really bad..." But DR didn't answer.
Mystery call #2... fill in the blanks. Have been burning to know #2's identity. Then, the calls stop, not because she walked out the door, but because she was dead. Maybe some attempt at CPR. At some point a decision was made not to call 911, it may have seemed that she was not coming back and so the thinking switched to self-preservation which meant no more phone calls! From this point on, it would be clean up and cover up. One thing I've not seen is the interval between these 2 calls. Was it in quick succession? Like less than 15 seconds between calls? Or was it like several minutes later?

 

[bx2]

Decided to re-read some sections of the Lohud one year later story. A few things that stuck out, that I haven't thought too much on

-Another easily verifiable timestamp was put on the night : MB says called JR at "about 3:30am". This would theoretically (if the stories could be believed) tell us that after being last seen on camera in the alley at 2:51, she was somewhere up until this time, and then at JR's shortly after. Meaning she would have been at JR's for close to an hour before he says she left.

-The PI's interviewed MB directly, which is why the story changed somewhat dramatically from what we heard from Salzmann early on. I find it interesting that he comments "But Spierer said she wanted to return to Smallwood, wrongly believing she left her phone with Rohn.". Did JR and MB talk later and come to some kind of agreement on this mission that she was on to retrieve her phone from DR?

-"Spierer came carrying her fake ID and Smallwood key card, he said.". We've discussed this briefly, I know there was a rumor at one point with the fake being found on north Walnut, etc, but this is a really strange detail to include unless you know it to be true. Why these items weren't in the wallet/wristlet that was lost I have no idea.


I don't participate very much in the theory discussion, mainly because the more things gravitate toward the unknown, the more uncomfortable I become in making assumptions. That's no knock on those that do so, it's one of the main reasons I'm such a fan of this board because I think we have a relatively good give and take on the analytical fact people and the scenario generators.

All that said, I go pretty firmly against the grain here. I can't find much reason to suspect that MB/CR contributed to getting rid of a body. I don't suspect that ZO had anything to do with what happened to her. I don't find any reason to believe that AB was even present, and will even go as far as to feel bad that his name was brought in to begin with. I am on the fringe of personally believing that JR was completely uninvolved, but I cannot shake that I think he is lying about her exit from his place (not that I think that she didn't leave, but I think his statement of watching her to the corner is false) and that alone is enough for me to remain suspicious of his involvement in something.

 

[Jupiter812]

I really shouldn't check in so late in the evening. It raises my bp and affects my ability to sleep.

You know what pisses me off? How JR's story attempts to portray him in innocence from the get go. It all starts when he's "getting ready for bed" just when she comes over. Now what does such a routine consist of for a college-age dude who has been partying for the past 12 hours? He's in his jammies, finished brushing and flossing? Making a quick pass with the brush through his hair?

Then he's the good Samaritan by trying to get her to stay and when she won't he allows her to leave only if she can walk straight. He even tells her to text him when she arrives at SW and as if that weren't enough, why he even goes out on the balcony to watch her walk to the corner.

Meanwhile CR is in not-so-happy land but at least he's in bed. And so is JW! They're all in bed or getting ready for bed. How convenient.

 

[British]

This is a significant question. We don't know what LE has. I've never seen an official list of POI's, only what has been deduced on WS. Clearly CR/MB/JR are POI's, but LE said there were 10. Remember school was just ending that week and in the days following Lauren's disappearance people cleared out. By the time LE was on the trail, anyone at JR's was long gone.
However, LE may know most if not everyone who was at JR's that night.
But knowing "who" then leads to trying to follow their trail after that night.
If this theory holds water than yes I would have expected LE to track them down. However, apparently even the key POI's in this case were not forced to return for questioning. Without evidence, LE can only do so much.

But even if you knew for example that this person "DB" were there and seemed to be involved, at this point pinning anything on them would be quite a challenge.



Yes, it fits. For example, I could see JR calling DR to find out "What did you guys take, how much? She's really bad..." But DR didn't answer.
Mystery call #2... fill in the blanks. Have been burning to know #2's identity. Then, the calls stop, not because she walked out the door, but because she was dead. Maybe some attempt at CPR. At some point a decision was made not to call 911, it may have seemed that she was not coming back and so the thinking switched to self-preservation which meant no more phone calls! From this point on, it would be clean up and cover up. One thing I've not seen is the interval between these 2 calls. Was it in quick succession? Like less than 15 seconds between calls? Or was it like several minutes later?

All good points. But still possible holes. LE brought apparently cadaver dogs in 5 North and JW's place. If there was some evidence that a dead body was in either place, one would expect that LE would start aggressively pursuing the POIs. But nothing happened, suggesting that the cadaver dogs did not find anything. If this assumption is true (and I believe it is), it goes back to the possibility that she may have never made it back to 5 North. Of course, at this time there is nothing to back this up. But in unusual cases, unusual things happen.

 

[Jupiter812]

Decided to re-read some sections of the Lohud one year later story. A few things that stuck out, that I haven't thought too much on

-Another easily verifiable timestamp was put on the night : MB says called JR at "about 3:30am". This would theoretically (if the stories could be believed) tell us that after being last seen on camera in the alley at 2:51, she was somewhere up until this time, and then at JR's shortly after. Meaning she would have been at JR's for close to an hour before he says she left.

-The PI's interviewed MB directly, which is why the story changed somewhat dramatically from what we heard from Salzmann early on. I find it interesting that he comments "But Spierer said she wanted to return to Smallwood, wrongly believing she left her phone with Rohn.". Did JR and MB talk later and come to some kind of agreement on this mission that she was on to retrieve her phone from DR?

-"Spierer came carrying her fake ID and Smallwood key card, he said.". We've discussed this briefly, I know there was a rumor at one point with the fake being found on north Walnut, etc, but this is a really strange detail to include unless you know it to be true. Why these items weren't in the wallet/wristlet that was lost I have no idea.


I don't participate very much in the theory discussion, mainly because the more things gravitate toward the unknown, the more uncomfortable I become in making assumptions. That's no knock on those that do so, it's one of the main reasons I'm such a fan of this board because I think we have a relatively good give and take on the analytical fact people and the scenario generators.

All that said, I go pretty firmly against the grain here. I can't find much reason to suspect that MB/CR contributed to getting rid of a body. I don't suspect that ZO had anything to do with what happened to her. I don't find any reason to believe that AB was even present, and will even go as far as to feel bad that his name was brought in to begin with. I am on the fringe of personally believing that JR was completely uninvolved, but I cannot shake that I think he is lying about her exit from his place (not that I think that she didn't leave, but I think his statement of watching her to the corner is false) and that alone is enough for me to remain suspicious of his involvement in something.

I looked at that article today as well and noticed that hour at JR's. I also figured Lauren and CR spent approx. one hour at his apartment, maybe 45 min., yet the article says they "stopped" there before going to Sports.

 

[sweet_blush]

I may be wrong, but the reason I dont believe he is involved, is that his name never came up by the press or anywhere officially.

Yeah, because if MSM didn't say it happened...

(lol)

And yes, we agree very much that one, if not all, of the POIs are LYING.

 

[Jupiter812]

All good points. But still possible holes. LE brought apparently cadaver dogs in 5 North and JW's place. If there was some evidence that a dead body was in either place, one would expect that LE would start aggressively pursuing the POIs. But nothing happened, suggesting that the cadaver dogs did not find anything. If this assumption is true (and I believe it is), it goes back to the possibility that she may have never made it back to 5 North. Of course, at this time there is nothing to back this up. But in unusual cases, unusual things happen.

It could be strategic that MB takes her to JR's at 3:30. This places her at 5N before the 3:38 witness account; perhaps in an attempt to discredit the witness or make us think it was not Lauren because Lauren was at CR/MB's.

Yes, they are placing her her at 5N so she can magically become all whole again.

Once they make her whole, she's on her own and they are safe.

 

[bx2]

I looked at that article today as well and noticed that hour at JR's. I also figured Lauren and CR spent approx. one hour at his apartment, maybe 45 min., yet the article says they "stopped" there before going to Sports.

Yeah, interesting detail. That account pretty much has to be coming from the MB interview or perhaps the JR sitdown meeting. It makes me wonder if she was separated from her phone at this point in the night and was why later on she thought DR may have picked it up if the JR pregame dispersed to Sports while she was at CR's.

 

[Jupiter812]

Yeah, interesting detail. That account pretty much has to be coming from the MB interview or perhaps the JR sitdown meeting. It makes me wonder if she was separated from her phone at this point in the night and was why later on she thought DR may have picked it up if the JR pregame dispersed to Sports while she was at CR's.

I envisioned everyone leaving JR's at pretty much the same time only Lauren and CR went to his place while the others went to Sports. I figure there were party favors at CR's because of the shape she reportedly was in at Sports.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Decided to re-read some sections of the Lohud one year later story. A few things that stuck out, that I haven't thought too much on

-Another easily verifiable timestamp was put on the night : MB says called JR at "about 3:30am". This would theoretically (if the stories could be believed) tell us that after being last seen on camera in the alley at 2:51, she was somewhere up until this time, and then at JR's shortly after. Meaning she would have been at JR's for close to an hour before he says she left.

Would like to know if LE has confirmed this to be true. Curious if there were any other calls made from CR/MB's or their cell phones around this time.

Ok, they pass through the cameras at 2:51 but she is falling face down and not blocking with hands. It took 1 year for this detail to come out. But think about it. How long would it take her to get up again, or for CR to pick her up. that could have gone on for several minutes. Yet, by just after 3:00am they were gone because of the wallet being found. It seems CR put Lauren on his back and made it to 5N. This would have cleared them from the lot and would take a couple minutes. May have taken several more minutes to get upstairs to the apartment. So, actually in the apartment around 3:15? This would give about 15 minutes for entry, barfing(Where is CR supposedly barfing?), supposedly putting CR to bed and then calling JR. But then Why call JR when he lives next door? What woman would not go to the bathroom after all of this falling and such? If she could stand up, she might be motivated to go to the bathroom. MB's story is false, and yes I agree that it's more likely he just wanted to distance himself from whatever was taking place. At this point I don't see him being involved in moving her body, but since is lying (even allowing his attorney to put that spin at first) about what happened he may know more. In order for him to lie by masking her condition, he is hiding that she was really bad off and that he did nothing to help her.
It appears to me, he just wanted to not be in that situation or responsible for her and found a way out of it. The interesting thing with a phone call at precisely 3:30 is that it conflicts with that other story that someone was seen carrying Lauren over on N. College north of 10th at exactly the same time.

Decided to re-read some sections of the Lohud
-The PI's interviewed MB directly, which is why the story changed somewhat dramatically from what we heard from Salzmann early on. I find it interesting that he comments "But Spierer said she wanted to return to Smallwood, wrongly believing she left her phone with Rohn.". Did JR and MB talk later and come to some kind of agreement on this mission that she was on to retrieve her phone from DR?

i would tend to agree with you, that this is a fabrication after the fact.
One reason it looks this way is that he says "wrongly". How could he have known that this notion was Wrong?

Decided to re-read some sections of the Lohud [URL="http://www.lohud.com/article/20120603/news02/306030045"]
-"Spierer came carrying her fake ID and Smallwood key card, he said.". We've discussed this briefly, I know there was a rumor at one point with the fake being found on north Walnut, etc, but this is a really strange detail to include unless you know it to be true. Why these items weren't in the wallet/wristlet that was lost I have no idea.

It's my understanding that her "keys" were in / with the wallet. But a keycard that's different. I would not think it so strange to keep some items separate, in a bra perhaps? There is video of her entering SW. Did she scan the card or did CR do it for her? It's possible CR was holding these items. Perhaps when she fell face down, these items fell out of the wallet or wherever and CR picked them up but didn't see or bother with the rest.

What else can you make of this?

Decided to re-read some sections of the Lohud [URL="http://www.lohud.com/article/20120603/news02/306030045"]
All that said, I go pretty firmly against the grain here. I can't find much reason to suspect that MB/CR contributed to getting rid of a body. I don't suspect that ZO had anything to do with what happened to her. I don't find any reason to believe that AB was even present, and will even go as far as to feel bad that his name was brought in to begin with. I am on the fringe of personally believing that JR was completely uninvolved, but I cannot shake that I think he is lying about her exit from his place (not that I think that she didn't leave, but I think his statement of watching her to the corner is false) and that alone is enough for me to remain suspicious of his involvement in something.

It's not inconsistent with the scenario I just posted. MB's statements are inconsistent with Lauren's condition, so he is lying. However, the reasons for his lies seem to be to cover up his culpability in not getting her help when she should have. I agree that after passing her to JR, he it probably was the last time he saw her. I'm leaning toward her being alive when she got to JR's because had she died at CR/MB's or somewhere between the lot and CR/MB's apartment JR may have refused to get involved. Also think that CR probably also did not see her again after she went to JR's. I think his memory loss is a lie too, but again this being an excuse to cover up his role in her demise. But just as you suggest that one lie, means there could be a whole iceberg underneath.

(I'm also assuming based on PI's statements that LS was seen on CR's back alive after the face down fall in the lot) If this were not true, then I would think she could have died right there in the lot or on the way between the lot and 5N. In that situation, CR could have gone to MB for help, then a call to JR. At that point JR is just as involved as if LS died at his place later without CR/MB being involved. Because whatever reasons caused the cover up if she died at JR's most would also apply if she died in the lot or on the way. But it does get more tricky, because CR/MB would then have knowledge of her death. The same would be true if she died in CR/MB's apartment. I''m definitely leaning towards her dying at JR's But that doesn't make CR/MB free from culpability. She was in bad shape and they should have done something.

I also agree that I have seen nothing credible to tie ZO to being Person X. ZO's violent behavior and subsequent immunity from being held accountable for his actions, do strike me as peculiar. He also lived at 10th and College which I've felt is a location that would hold more clues. I can't rule ZO's involvement in or out. To me, he certainly should be a POI.

 

[VeryVeritas]

All good points. But still possible holes. LE brought apparently cadaver dogs in 5 North and JW's place. If there was some evidence that a dead body was in either place, one would expect that LE would start aggressively pursuing the POIs. But nothing happened, suggesting that the cadaver dogs did not find anything. If this assumption is true (and I believe it is), it goes back to the possibility that she may have never made it back to 5 North. Of course, at this time there is nothing to back this up. But in unusual cases, unusual things happen.

It is the holes that matter, so keep poking. Did the cadaver dogs react at all at 5N? you say if they would aggressively pursuing POI's... but what do you call kicking down JR's door? I only found out about that this week!
My point is that what if they know she was dead at 5N, but could not conclude anything because of A) time that had lapsed and B) Clean up and possibly how quickly she had been removed.