IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #28

[Ros]

I posted the info about the cell records and stories after asking a few questions to a friend a friend that was LE in bloomington at that time. He also told me about one of the.dogs tracking to JW's back door.. However I miss understood him and thought the tracking started at 5N , when it really started at SW. So thats a path she had taken to JW's previously , not that night.
Keep in mind that I was not interviewing him. I was asking a few casual yet probing question when we spoke. He thought all the 5N guys to be telling the truth and innocent because all their stories checked out , even after trying to trick them up. All their cell records matched their stories. He said at a great expense of near $100,000 , that all calls were investigated for several towers for week before and weeks after and the POI seem to be telling the truth. It was his opinion, at that time, that it was a random abduction, probably by a "local nut job".

Actually, based on past Monroe County history (e.g. the deaths of Jill Behrman, Ellen Marks), a "local nut job" could be the most likely explanation. I do not know of a situation in which an IU student disappeared and his/her fellow students were responsible. If a student died due to the actions or inaction of other students, someone (eventually) reported the situation to the authorities. And of course we still don't know what happened to Margaret Ann Hayes after she bought cigarettes at Caveat Emptor late at night on March 10, 1977.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Actually, based on past Monroe County history (e.g. the deaths of Jill Behrman, Ellen Marks), a "local nut job" could be the most likely explanation. I do not know of a situation in which an IU student disappeared and his/her fellow students were responsible. If a student died due to the actions or inaction of other students, someone (eventually) reported the situation to the authorities. And of course we still don't know what happened to Margaret Ann Hayes after she bought cigarettes at Caveat Emptor late at night on March 10, 1977.

I agree that a stranger abduction is certainly within the realm of possibilities, my question is if how do you see the "local nut job" getting into the area and then getting out with LS without being on camera either their vehicle or on foot? Do you think they live in the area? If so, why wouldn't dogs have picked up her scent from where JR said he saw her last to some other point where she was picked up? -Or did they? Also, not being from the area how many unsolved missing women cases are there in the Bloomington area over the last say 10-15 years? Although, I guess I can not be lazy and find that out on my own.
Thanks in advance for your time answering my questions, because I'm open to the theory.

 

[Skigirl]

I would normally put a stranger abduction really high on my list of possibilities, but there were so many strange things going on that night -- how messed up she was, her heart condition, that she had no shoes or phone, the fight outside her apartment, all the various men that were around her that night with no women (that I know of), the improbable story that JR made sure she could walk in a straight line and sent her on her way in the wee morning hours, the other improbable story about CR being put to bed and having amnesia, the fact that she had a boyfriend with whom she had tentative plans who claimed that he simply went to bed when he didn't hear from her when she just happened to have gone out with another guy... all of those elements make me believe that any number of things could have happened at the hands of people she knew and are probably more likely than a stranger abduction. Not that I'd rule it out, just that I think it's less likely.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

I would normally put a stranger abduction really high on my list of possibilities, but there were so many strange things going on that night -- how messed up she was, her heart condition, that she had no shoes or phone, the fight outside her apartment, all the various men that were around her that night with no women (that I know of), the improbable story that JR made sure she could walk in a straight line and sent her on her way in the wee morning hours, the other improbable story about CR being put to bed and having amnesia, the fact that she had a boyfriend with whom she had tentative plans who claimed that he simply went to bed when he didn't hear from her when she just happened to have gone out with another guy... all of those elements make me believe that any number of things could have happened at the hands of people she knew and are probably more likely than a stranger abduction. Not that I'd rule it out, just that I think it's less likely.

I've havent really thought of JW as a possibility since early on but since you mention it, what is the nature of his relationship to JR? Are they friends?

 

[AbbeyR]

Oh crap. I didn't mean to start something here or to prosecute anyone publicly. Did I do that? I'm sorry....

No, you're not the first to go down that road. I say the same thing every time it comes up. You are free to talk about whatever you want though!

My frustration just comes from having a bunch of elements in the mix that we have no way to verify.

Someone's friend in LE told them there was a ping from one of the POI's cell phones in Martinsville. Someone else's friend told them the POI's cell records showed they stayed home. A psychic said the dogs hit on the dumpsters. Someone else says they got information about dogs from the Spierers...

I just wish we had some concrete information to keep us from going in circles.

 

[VeryVeritas]

WOW it just crossed my mind. What if JR was meaning to call DB at 430am and mistakenly dialed DR. JR realizes he makes the mistake and hangs up the phone really quick and creates an alibi trying to call DR to get LS into Smallwood.

If that second call was to DB that would do it for me. This just fits too well.

 

[VeryVeritas]

But he called 2 people, neither of which were DB.

In order to bring DB into the mix here as POI #1 based on a tweet, can someone explain to me how he somehow managed to avoid ever being brought up by anyone having anything to do with this case? The media, Spierers, the PIs...?

Also, I've said this before, but the Tweet as alibi makes zero sense. If you are worried about someone checking an alibi, you would know that a Tweet would not be sufficient in itself -- phone records would easily show where he was and the tweet would not matter. Not to mention that it seems incredibly stupid to invent an 'alibi' that puts you in the town where the crime happened, at a public place, if you were not actually there. Going hypothetically with the 'conspiracy among POIs' scenario where DB is off hiding a body, wouldn't it make more sense to say nothing at all, and if alibi is needed claim they were all together at JR's eating bagels at 11 am?

I'm open to any theory, but I've always felt like it's a pretty big leap to consider this person a POI based on a tweet found by CJ -- a person who was clearly struggling with mental illness and whose other 'clues' in this case amounted to nothing but false information and ridiculous conspiracy theories.

How do you know 1 call was not to DB? The only thing I've seen revealed is that it was to another male LS was partying with that night. DB meets both of those criteria correct?

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

no, you're not the first to go down that road. I say the same thing every time it comes up. You are free to talk about whatever you want though!

My frustration just comes from having a bunch of elements in the mix that we have no way to verify.

Someone's friend in le told them there was a ping from one of the poi's cell phones in martinsville. Someone else's friend told them the poi's cell records showed they stayed home. A psychic said the dogs hit on the dumpsters. Someone else says they got information about dogs from the spierers...

I just wish we had some concrete information to keep us from going in circles.

me too!

 

[sammi89]

How do you know 1 call was not to DB? The only thing I've seen revealed is that it was to another male LS was partying with that night. DB meets both of those criteria correct?

Agreed, great question. Isn't the only thing known about the other caller that she watched the BB game with him at Smallwood?

I don't think there's any way to conclusively say the second call wasn't to DB based on what has been released on it.

 

[AbbeyR]

How do you know 1 call was not to DB? The only thing I've seen revealed is that it was to another male LS was partying with that night. DB meets both of those criteria correct?

BBM: No, we've had no indication that DB was with her at any point in the night. We have one tweet that suggests he was at the Runcible Spoon the next day.

The other call was to someone she was watching basketball with at Smallwood.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Oh, and btw, I'm not sure if I mentioned this before, but, I didn't/don't think the tweet has anything to do with an alibi, for me it just tells me DB was in Bloomington. We know from LE that there was other people there at JRs that haven't been named, we also know from LE that all the POI's haven't been named publicly. I think it's reasonable to assume DB is on the list. The fact that we wouldn't know that he was there or likely one of the unnamed POI's without his own tweet is sort of irrelevant; it's not exactly rumor if he says he was in Bloomington himself. I also can't see, and I don't think DB would see either, how a tweet would provide an alibi. I don't think it was an attempt at an alibi I think it was FU he probably wishes he could undo. IF DB was involved it would serve as the opposite of an alibi in my mind because it puts him in Bloomington. IF he was involved I doubt he would be so stupid as to take her out on the road back to MI with him to dispose of her body. On the contrary, I think he would have done that in the opposite direction of MI. or at the very least close to or in Bloomington.

 

[sammi89]

But he called 2 people, neither of which were DB.

In order to bring DB into the mix here as POI #1 based on a tweet, can someone explain to me how he somehow managed to avoid ever being brought up by anyone having anything to do with this case? The media, Spierers, the PIs...?

Also, I've said this before, but the Tweet as alibi makes zero sense. If you are worried about someone checking an alibi, you would know that a Tweet would not be sufficient in itself -- phone records would easily show where he was and the tweet would not matter. Not to mention that it seems incredibly stupid to invent an 'alibi' that puts you in the town where the crime happened, at a public place, if you were not actually there. Going hypothetically with the 'conspiracy among POIs' scenario where DB is off hiding a body, wouldn't it make more sense to say nothing at all, and if alibi is needed claim they were all together at JR's eating bagels at 11 am?

I'm open to any theory, but I've always felt like it's a pretty big leap to consider this person a POI based on a tweet found by CJ -- a person who was clearly struggling with mental illness and whose other 'clues' in this case amounted to nothing but false information and ridiculous conspiracy theories.

I mean, I think it's fair to consider him a POI. Maybe not a suspect because that seems to imply there's some hard evidence, it's somehow more concrete, etc. etc. I've always sort of thought a POI is someone who MIGHT be a suspect, but the foundation hasn't been firmly made and so he might not turn out to be perfectly innocent.

How often have the Spierers named ANYONE by name? That's actually a serious question. I've noticed sometimes in interviews that they sometimes seem very ambiguous. For example, on Katie Couric's show, they seemed to say stuff, "I think you're talking about the boy who...." and they don't actually give a name. Even the letters, which always SEEM to be penned to someone in particular, NEVER name names. Clever, because if it IS someone LS knew, then that person knows she's talking to them. The Spierers seem to think it was more likely it was someone she knew or, at the very least, one of these boys could provide more useful information. The line that has always stuck with me is: "Remember what LS meant to you" or something along those lines. Initially, I thought JW! Right? She was a significant part of his life. However, I've grown more and more skeptical of that just based on the Spierers themselves sort of saying they think he's told them what he knows and when I was trying to see who was fbook friends with who, I noticed JW is friends with a few Spierers, including LS' sister. If he was truly top of the list, I don't know if she could handle seeing his updates and thinking he was responsible. I can definitely see arguments for the contrary though, just my own opinion.

As for the media, I think that is definitely because that could result in a lawsuit and from how fast the other boys lawyered up, I would not be shocked.

LE has said very little about the POI from that night. I don't think they've named many? I think JW was inevitable because he played a large role in reporting her missing, he was her boyfriend, etc. In the beginning, there was a lot of confusion about who was actually the last to see LS, right? A lot of people thought it was CR because he was the first POI known, right? JR obviously eventually became known.

I honestly think DB has not and was not named because it really doesn't seem like LE HAS named many POI and I think he was out of Bloomington before it was clear what had happened to LS and/or JR was actually the last to see her. Additionally, that might be one of the things the Spierers want to know from JR - "who was at your party?"

How much can Bloomington LE do when DB is back in MI? Can they force him to return for questioning? Can they force a phone interview? Would attorney statements suffice? If he were personally interviewed, wouldn't it be very easy to claim he really doesn't know what happened, he didn't know her well, etc. etc and if this wasn't even a physical interview, it might be difficult to really have any idea of he was telling the truth?

I see your point on the tweet though.

 

[sammi89]

BBM: No, we've had no indication that DB was with her at any point in the night. We have one tweet that suggests he was at the Runcible Spoon the next day.

The other call was to someone she was watching basketball with at Smallwood.

I think the problem with this though is that it could very well mean both of the things you suggest, but it could ALSO be that by DB openly placing himself in Bloomington that it DOES seem to indicate that he might have been at JR's and if so, probably would have been with her at some point.

Where was she watching the game at Smallwood? Her place? DR's? Elsewhere? JR and HT are close. I don't think the fact that whoever it was, was at Smallwood with her necessarily rules out DB. I think it might make it less likely, but definitely not a certainty.

 

[sammi89]

I've havent really thought of JW as a possibility since early on but since you mention it, what is the nature of his relationship to JR? Are they friends?

JW and his father barged into the 5N apt when LS first went missing and demanded to know what happened/where she was/etc. He has since had his friends threaten to punch JR when JR showed up to a party that JW was already at. Unless they have a weird relationship, I doubt it LOL

 

[sammi89]

I posted the info about the cell records and stories after asking a few questions to a friend a friend that was LE in bloomington at that time. He also told me about one of the.dogs tracking to JW's back door.. However I miss understood him and thought the tracking started at 5N , when it really started at SW. So thats a path she had taken to JW's previously , not that night.
Keep in mind that I was not interviewing him. I was asking a few casual yet probing question when we spoke. He thought all the 5N guys to be telling the truth and innocent because all their stories checked out , even after trying to trick them up. All their cell records matched their stories. He said at a great expense of near $100,000 , that all calls were investigated for several towers for week before and weeks after and the POI seem to be telling the truth. It was his opinion, at that time, that it was a random abuction, probably by a "local nut job".

That's interesting because I have been under the impression that they really haven't cooperated much with LE (taken polygraphs), videos have contradicted what CR & MB have said about her helping CR back and putting him to bed, and there is no evidence that she ever left on video.

How did their stories check out?

 

[AbbeyR]

How often have the Spierers named ANYONE by name? That's actually a serious question.

Several times, I think. I don't have time to get the links, but:

There was the 'find lauren' video, that had the names and photos of the key POI; the time that they gave an interview that basically said that they didn't think some of the POI had anything to do with Lauren's disappearance, but were looking for answers from others. (This is the one where the article implied they had 'cleared' people, and LE jumped in to say no one was cleared); Their Private investigator was interviewed for the Lohud video and drew attention to inconsistencies mostly in JR, CR and MB's stories (and also mentioned JW); The Spierers seem to have consistently asked for answers from these same people. They have especially expressed dissatisfaction with the lack of cooperation from JR and CR.
Neither they, nor the PI's have ever (as far as I know) mentioned or talked about wanting answers from this out of town visitor.

That's my impression, anyway.

So, I'm not saying it isn't possible that DB was around that night or may even be a POI - You're right that there were other Persons of Interest (like DR) who were considered such because they were with Lauren at some point that night and sure, he could be one of those people. But I think it's unlikely that if he were really around in those final hours, that he wouldn't be included in anyone's story, and no one would have figured this out.

All we can do is weigh out the evidence we do have, and I think that pretty consistently points to the involvement of the POI we know about, who have stories that don't add up, and also happen to have gotten lawyers right away and refuse to give LE polygraphs.

MOO.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Do we know the names of all of JR's roommates? I've read there are 3 or 4 guys including JR. I have no idea where I read that, probably PT or somewhere equally as unreliable which would be why I never thought about it again but for some reason all of sudden it just occurred to me that he probably did have roommates and I have no clue about them at all. Does anyone?

 

[bx2]

Do we know the names of all of JR's roommates? I've read there are 3 or 4 guys including JR. I have no idea where I read that, probably PT or somewhere equally as unreliable which would be why I never thought about it again but for some reason all of sudden it just occurred to me that he probably did have roommates and I have no clue about them at all. Does anyone?

Yes. 4 roommates (went to high school with MB), all reportedly home in NJ.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Yes. 4 roommates (went to high school with MB), all reportedly home in NJ.

Ok, so all but JR had already left for summer. Cool. Thanks.

 

[AbbeyR]

The most important question to me about the roommates and possibility of an out of town visitor is: What / whose cars were around that night that JR (and/or the other POI) may have had access to. Were they all searched?

For ex., Did the roommates all leave for the summer with their cars? When I was away at school, there was at least one summer I left my car there because I worked at a summer camp during the entire break. My roommates who stayed in town had a spare set of keys.

We have heard that JR's car was in the shop. Whether he had access to another car could rule out (/in) a lot of possibilities.