IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #28

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

The most important question to me about the roommates and possibility of an out of town visitor is: What / whose cars were around that night that JR (and/or the other POI) may have had access to. Were they all searched?

For ex., Did the roommates all leave for the summer with their cars? When I was away at school, there was at least one summer I left my car there because I worked at a summer camp during the entire break. My roommates who stayed in town had a spare set of keys.

We have heard that JR's car was in the shop. Whether he had access to another car could rule out (/in) a lot of possibilities.

That would be good to know. Also, I think I already mentioned it or I meant to; going on the theory that one or more of the 5N boys are involved, I'm not sure any of them would risk driving and being stopped for a DUI with a dead girl in the trunk so who if any of them would have been either sober or sober enough to take off with her in the car? The only one I recall claiming to be sober that night was MB, but I don't think I've ever heard anything about if he has a car and if he does if it was properly searched. I would hope so. We don't know about any of the roommates vehicles, so outside of that the only car that leaves, since CR's was processed by LE, is possibly DB's or any other unknown visitors and since we know JR was gone the next day or day after she was reported missing so that means it's nearly certain his visitors were gone with their cars too. So. We're looking at the cars of his visitors as possible transports that MAY have never been searched by LE.

The thing is, if I can think this stuff up then surely LE is way ahead of me and would have done what was necessary to clear any of the visitors and their vehicles. Wouldn't they?

 

[bx2]

snipped

The only one I recall claiming to be sober that night was MB

That was part of CR's lawyer's story, but from the Lohud 1 year later article where the PI's interviewed MB:

At Rossman’s apartment, Beth, his neighbor, was still awake; he’d been drinking and finishing a paper for class.

and since we know JR was gone the next day or day after she was reported missing

I'm not sure where you're getting the above from, but it was my understanding that JR was complicit in helping the investigation in the days immediately following before retaining counsel.

Lukemeyer also tells IM that, before retaining counsel, Rosenbaum gave two statements to the police, rode with them in the area where Spierer was last seen, and shared his phone.

 

[Snapfade]

That's interesting because I have been under the impression that they really haven't cooperated much with LE (taken polygraphs), videos have contradicted what CR & MB have said about her helping CR back and putting him to bed, and there is no evidence that she ever left on video.

How did their stories check out?

Thats a question for LE....They were unable to catch them in any lies. The line of questioning is certainly what lead the 5N boys to lawyers.

 

[Snapfade]

That would be good to know. Also, I think I already mentioned it or I meant to; going on the theory that one or more of the 5N boys are involved, I'm not sure any of them would risk driving and being stopped for a DUI with a dead girl in the trunk so who if any of them would have been either sober or sober enough to take off with her in the car? The only one I recall claiming to be sober that night was MB, but I don't think I've ever heard anything about if he has a car and if he does if it was properly searched. I would hope so. We don't know about any of the roommates vehicles, so outside of that the only car that leaves, since CR's was processed by LE, is possibly DB's or any other unknown visitors and since we know JR was gone the next day or day after she was reported missing so that means it's nearly certain his visitors were gone with their cars too. So. We're looking at the cars of his visitors as possible transports that MAY have never been searched by LE.

The thing is, if I can think this stuff up then surely LE is way ahead of me and would have done what was necessary to clear any of the visitors and their vehicles. Wouldn't they?

Very good point .....If multiple POI involved, the most.sober.would have certainly drove.

 

[akh]

Thats a question for LE....They were unable to catch them in any lies. The line of questioning is certainly what lead the 5N boys to lawyers.

That's an interesting take on things. I never was clear on exactly when lawyers were retained except that it was obviously very early on. If initial questioning quickly led them to believe they were the chief suspects and likely not being believed then it would be pretty obvious why they would want lawyers quickly, even if innocent.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

snipped


I'm not sure where you're getting the above from, but it was my understanding that JR was complicit in helping the investigation in the days immediately following before retaining counsel.

Well. Huh. I don't know where I'm getting that either to be honest. For some long forgotten reason I thought that he did leave right away. I'm just wrong and that just goes to show how fact and fiction get all mixed up. Particularly in this case, it's so difficult to even look back and find a factual answer to something because if you go back to the very start there was so many "incomplete" reports, things that changed later and so so so much rumor and bad reporting. Who knows what other things I "think" but are wrong. Ugh. Anyway, thank you for the correction.

 

[Snapfade]

Actually, based on past Monroe County history (e.g. the deaths of Jill Behrman, Ellen Marks), a "local nut job" could be the most likely explanation. I do not know of a situation in which an IU student disappeared and his/her fellow students were responsible. If a student died due to the actions or inaction of other students, someone (eventually) reported the situation to the authorities. And of course we still don't know what happened to Margaret Ann Hayes after she bought cigarettes at Caveat Emptor late at night on March 10, 1977.

He did mention one guy in particular that lived out in rural area that LE had "run in" with the month or so before June 3rd. He called him a "real weirdo" He also commented on Bloomington being an unusal place , having alot of older, unmarried weirdos.........Dont want to offend any fellow Hoosiers from Bloomington, but this is what my LE friend said ..

 

[LongTallTexan]

We obvioulsy continue to struggle even discussing theories, because the different types of informations (or lack thereof) that we have. I my eyes there are 3 categories of information:
1. What we've been allowed to know: This is basically our facts that we have to work with from MSM, LE, PIs and the Spierers. While we view this information on this forum as FACT, it may not be. For example, it may be HT's version of what JR told her, with her embellishments or omissions. Even LE and MSM, provide information that we take as fact, however, a simple omission may lead our theories down a path missing the 'facts' of what really happened (the last video sighting, clearly there was something LE withheld).
2. What LE knows for fact, that we do not: Someone a few pages back created a great list of questions, most of which LE should, and most likely, knows. Cell phone pings/records, statements from the POIs, cars searched, polygraphs...this is hard facts and evidence, that LE cannot share....but it's the 'glue' to the crumbs of information we have that would help us with our theories.
3. What is NOT being said: This one is the one that concerns me in this case. I'm not much of a theorizer, I tend to wait for fact, so while I don't post as much, I don't miss a post...in this case or the others that I follow....I appreciate what everyone has to say, think, and the passion here...so thank you all! But, there is something missing on this case that EVERY other case I've followed has had....an insider, someone close to the scene, someone who knows these people, a friend, a family member. I truly appeciate our Bloomington locals, but I don't know if any you are 'close' to this group. There is so much more to know about these people, their intentions, their personalities, actions leading up to that night, the Indy 500....I know WS will verify these folks, but it seems that after a year and a half, still not much is being said. Leads me to believe either this group was very isolated that night, no one cares to get involved, or that they fear some sort repercussions. I don't believe they were isolated and I don't believe that people don't care...so what the hell is going on? The others that were at INdy? The folks at SW that were initially with LS?? The other guys in the hall at SW with ZO?? Others that were at Kilroys?? Others in the alley that night....there's a LOT of housing around the alley...no one else saw anything, but found her wallet/keys in the dark? Others at or around 5N, visitors, neighbors, etc?

I find this very odd that there is not more 'talk' that would leak to the public about the events leading upto, during and after that night.

 

[monkey222]

I thought LS watched NBA game at 5N not Smallwood. Wasnt it at 5N where tge booze ran out..?

 

[imkeylime]

That's an interesting take on things. I never was clear on exactly when lawyers were retained except that it was obviously very early on. If initial questioning quickly led them to believe they were the chief suspects and likely not being believed then it would be pretty obvious why they would want lawyers quickly, even if innocent.

JMO, but I was never too surprised that the POIs lawyered up early on. There was obviously illegal activity (underage drinking, drugs) going on that night, and most of them had already received violations in that regard. Also, they come from families who probably have retained counsel at their fingertips, and retained counsel would say to lawyer up, IMO.

I'm not sure if they're related, but there's at least one well known lawyer in the SE MI area who shares JR's last name. So there may even be law professionals in their families who advised them to seek legal counsel.

 

[Snapfade]

We obvioulsy continue to struggle even discussing theories, because the different types of informations (or lack thereof) that we have. I my eyes there are 3 categories of information:
1. What we've been allowed to know: This is basically our facts that we have to work with from MSM, LE, PIs and the Spierers. While we view this information on this forum as FACT, it may not be. For example, it may be HT's version of what JR told her, with her embellishments or omissions. Even LE and MSM, provide information that we take as fact, however, a simple omission may lead our theories down a path missing the 'facts' of what really happened (the last video sighting, clearly there was something LE withheld).
2. What LE knows for fact, that we do not: Someone a few pages back created a great list of questions, most of which LE should, and most likely, knows. Cell phone pings/records, statements from the POIs, cars searched, polygraphs...this is hard facts and evidence, that LE cannot share....but it's the 'glue' to the crumbs of information we have that would help us with our theories.
3. What is NOT being said: This one is the one that concerns me in this case. I'm not much of a theorizer, I tend to wait for fact, so while I don't post as much, I don't miss a post...in this case or the others that I follow....I appreciate what everyone has to say, think, and the passion here...so thank you all! But, there is something missing on this case that EVERY other case I've followed has had....an insider, someone close to the scene, someone who knows these people, a friend, a family member. I truly appeciate our Bloomington locals, but I don't know if any you are 'close' to this group. There is so much more to know about these people, their intentions, their personalities, actions leading up to that night, the Indy 500....I know WS will verify these folks, but it seems that after a year and a half, still not much is being said. Leads me to believe either this group was very isolated that night, no one cares to get involved, or that they fear some sort repercussions. I don't believe they were isolated and I don't believe that people don't care...so what the hell is going on? The others that were at INdy? The folks at SW that were initially with LS?? The other guys in the hall at SW with ZO?? Others that were at Kilroys?? Others in the alley that night....there's a LOT of housing around the alley...no one else saw anything, but found her wallet/keys in the dark? Others at or around 5N, visitors, neighbors, etc?

I find this very odd that there is not more 'talk' that would leak to the public about the events leading upto, during and after that night.

I dont think LE knows much more than we do. JMO

 

[masootz]

JMO, but I was never too surprised that the POIs lawyered up early on. There was obviously illegal activity (underage drinking, drugs) going on that night, and most of them had already received violations in that regard. Also, they come from families who probably have retained counsel at their fingertips, and retained counsel would say to lawyer up, IMO.

I'm not sure if they're related, but there's at least one well known lawyer in the SE MI area who shares JR's last name. So there may even be law professionals in their families who advised them to seek legal counsel.

i agree. the first thing anyone who's been through a situation like that will tell you is, innocent or not, get a lawyer. the average person isn't knowledgeable enough on matters of law to fend for themselves not to mention if someone you're close to goes missing you're probably not in a mental state to properly process all that's going on. i hate that in this country you're automatically considered guilty by a lot of people if you hire a lawyer or refuse a polygraph (which isn't admissable in court because they're not reliable). to each their own on the choices they make, but a person should have a choice on both of the above without automatically being assumed guilty.

 

[AbbeyR]

... and since we know JR was gone the next day or day after she was reported missing so that means it's nearly certain his visitors were gone with their cars too.

I'm not sure where you're getting the above from, but it was my understanding that JR was complicit in helping the investigation in the days immediately following before retaining counsel.

Seeing is right, in the days following Lauren's disappearance, no one could track down JR and more than one media source reported he left Bloomington within a couple of days. By June 7 he had hired a team of high profile lawyers and neither he nor his attorneys were responding to questions. He may have spoken to LE before he left and 'shared his phone' (whatever that means), but both LE and the Spierers expressed frustration that he left Bloomingtion and was not cooperating. The quote from his attorney in the IM article came way later as a response.

The third friend of Spierer’s who lives at 5 North, Jason Rosenbaum, has not been seen in Bloomington since the weekend Spierer went missing. He has hired attorney James Voyles, most noted for representing Mike Tyson against charges he raped a woman in an Indianapolis hotel room. Numerous attempts to contact Voyles have been futile. Unlike Rossman, Beth and Rohn, Rosenbaum has made no public statements. It is not known if he has been interviewed by police or has provided a DNA sample.

Charlene Spierer, Lauren’s mother, has suggested that some of her friends may be withholding information that could help in finding her daughter.

(Evidence points to friend - Gatto)

More than three weeks after Westchester college student Lauren Spierer vanished during a night out partying at Indiana University, Jason "Jay" Rosenbaum -- the last person to admit having seen her alive -- has ignored her parents' pleas for information that could lead them to their daughter, family friends told The Post...Instead, Rosenbaum, 21, has hired a high-profile criminal defense lawyer, left his Bloomington condo and, sources said, clammed up. His Indiana lawyer, James Voyles, didn't return calls.

(Last person to see missing student alive won't talk)

Ftr, I don't think getting a lawyer in itself is a sign of guilt at all! If JR had hired a lawyer, but had a story that made sense and cooperated with the investigation, I don't think anyone would still be looking at him.

Instead: JR, the last person to see LS, leaves Bloomington almost immediately after her disappearance, has a high profile lawyer within days, refuses to answer basic questions or take an LE polygraph about his missing friend, and his story just doesn't add up . It's the whole context that = :waitasec:

 

[AbbeyR]

Thats a question for LE....They were unable to catch them in any lies.

We don't know what the evidence is, or what LE knows or suspects.

 

[akh]

But then JR ultimately did meet with the parents.

 

[bx2]

Seeing is right, in the days following Lauren's disappearance, no one could track down JR and more than one media source reported he left Bloomington within a couple of days. By June 7 he had hired a team of high profile lawyers and neither he nor his attorneys were responding to questions. He may have spoken to LE before he left and 'shared his phone' (whatever that means), but both LE and the Spierers expressed frustration that he left Bloomingtion and was not cooperating. The quote from his attorney in the IM article came way later as a response.

(Evidence points to friend - Gatto)

(Last person to see missing student alive won't talk)

Ftr, I don't think getting a lawyer in itself is a sign of guilt at all! If JR had hired a lawyer, but had a story that made sense and cooperated with the investigation, I don't think anyone would still be looking at him.

Instead: JR, the last person to see LS, leaves Bloomington almost immediately after her disappearance, has a high profile lawyer within days, refuses to answer basic questions or take an LE polygraph about his missing friend, and his story just doesn't add up . It's the whole context that = :waitasec:

We don't even know if he was living there at the time, so leaving Bloomington could very well just be returning home as planned. Trust me, I agree that I wish he continued to be as forthcoming as he possibly? was before hiring an attorney, but I find all of the behavior after that consistent with what a high profile lawyer would advise. His story (as little of it as we may actually know) also makes complete sense to me, up until the very last bit with the seeing her to the corner bit. Just different ways of seeing things I guess.

 

[Ros]

We obvioulsy continue to struggle even discussing theories, because the different types of informations (or lack thereof) that we have. I my eyes there are 3 categories of information:
1. What we've been allowed to know: This is basically our facts that we have to work with from MSM, LE, PIs and the Spierers. While we view this information on this forum as FACT, it may not be. For example, it may be HT's version of what JR told her, with her embellishments or omissions. Even LE and MSM, provide information that we take as fact, however, a simple omission may lead our theories down a path missing the 'facts' of what really happened (the last video sighting, clearly there was something LE withheld).
2. What LE knows for fact, that we do not: Someone a few pages back created a great list of questions, most of which LE should, and most likely, knows. Cell phone pings/records, statements from the POIs, cars searched, polygraphs...this is hard facts and evidence, that LE cannot share....but it's the 'glue' to the crumbs of information we have that would help us with our theories.
3. What is NOT being said: This one is the one that concerns me in this case. I'm not much of a theorizer, I tend to wait for fact, so while I don't post as much, I don't miss a post...in this case or the others that I follow....I appreciate what everyone has to say, think, and the passion here...so thank you all! But, there is something missing on this case that EVERY other case I've followed has had....an insider, someone close to the scene, someone who knows these people, a friend, a family member. I truly appeciate our Bloomington locals, but I don't know if any you are 'close' to this group. There is so much more to know about these people, their intentions, their personalities, actions leading up to that night, the Indy 500....I know WS will verify these folks, but it seems that after a year and a half, still not much is being said. Leads me to believe either this group was very isolated that night, no one cares to get involved, or that they fear some sort repercussions. I don't believe they were isolated and I don't believe that people don't care...so what the hell is going on? The others that were at INdy? The folks at SW that were initially with LS?? The other guys in the hall at SW with ZO?? Others that were at Kilroys?? Others in the alley that night....there's a LOT of housing around the alley...no one else saw anything, but found her wallet/keys in the dark? Others at or around 5N, visitors, neighbors, etc?

I find this very odd that there is not more 'talk' that would leak to the public about the events leading upto, during and after that night.

There were people close to this group who posted frequently on the PT (Phish) board early on. One person was a friend of JR's roommate and was the source of the "no soul" and "good liar" characterizations of JR. Another was JW's roommate.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Oh, and btw, I'm not sure if I mentioned this before, but, I didn't/don't think the tweet has anything to do with an alibi, for me it just tells me DB was in Bloomington. We know from LE that there was other people there at JRs that haven't been named, we also know from LE that all the POI's haven't been named publicly. I think it's reasonable to assume DB is on the list. The fact that we wouldn't know that he was there or likely one of the unnamed POI's without his own tweet is sort of irrelevant; it's not exactly rumor if he says he was in Bloomington himself. I also can't see, and I don't think DB would see either, how a tweet would provide an alibi. I don't think it was an attempt at an alibi I think it was FU he probably wishes he could undo. IF DB was involved it would serve as the opposite of an alibi in my mind because it puts him in Bloomington. IF he was involved I doubt he would be so stupid as to take her out on the road back to MI with him to dispose of her body. On the contrary, I think he would have done that in the opposite direction of MI. or at the very least close to or in Bloomington.

Yeah, people laughed when I suggested the Gators - I meant down south. You can drive from bloomington to gator swamps in about 15-16 hrs, and of course a gazillion rivers and lakes in between. So you are right. It's not safe to assume it was along the way back home. There was a group of 4 people last year that hacked up a woman in Ohio and then dumped the pieces in Northern Kentucky. There is another very small blond girl missing there Paige Johnson. The case seems unrelated, but it does look like someone chose the hilly wooded terrain with rivers and lakes of Northern Kentucky to ditch her as well - no body ever found. It seems West Virginia which is maybe 5-6 hrs from bloomington is even more hilly and dense with trees and rivers.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I thought LS watched NBA game at 5N not Smallwood. Wasnt it at 5N where tge booze ran out..?

That's my understanding too... they were watching the game at 5N around 12:30 and after that CR and LS headed to Kilroy's. So this report seems to be in conflict.

 

[VeryVeritas]

But then JR ultimately did meet with the parents.

So? After the body is long gone and there is no trace of anything, you have the best Lawyer money can buy, there is zero evidence and you can lie through your teeth and move on with your life regardless, exactly what does this prove? Talking with the Spierers is not the same as being interrogated by LE, and taking an LE administered polygraph immediately after.

I'm curious akh, What is your theory?