IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #28

[sammi89]

If they really cared about Lauren, they could have kept her there by calling security, who would have warned her that if she left the building they would make sure she got a PI.

I agree, they could have done more.

I believe it's been reported that ZO was also banned at Smallwood, giving him incentive to not call security.

I'm sure in hindsight they wish they had though. I doubt very much that anyone thought LS would have disappeared. I'm not going to judge them because they said and did more than any of LS' friends did that night. As much as I wish they had done more, I don't want to criticize too harshly because they themselves might even look back and kick themselves for not doing more but, unless they somehow were involved, there was no way to predict what ultimately happened.

 

[sammi89]

3) Who else was contacted by Kilroy's?


B) JR? VeryVeritas mentioned JR told her to text HIM, but when he got no text did he seriously not bother texting even a, "hey, is this LS? Did you find your phone?" not even the next morning? Remember, HT has described him as their friend and a brotherly type.

Quick edit (for some reason I can't edit my original post)

VeryVeritas did NOT say that. I believe she was saying JR should have told told her to call/text him. My bad. Either way though, you would think JR would have wanted a call or text letting him know she got back okay, or at least would have tried calling the next day. He's supposedly this caring, brotherly type (according to HT). So, why wasn't JR calling LS or HT that night or the following morning/early afternoon to make sure she was okay?

 

[imkeylime]

I also found it odd that JR did not call HT (both when LS supposedly made the 2 other calls before LS left and after LS had left and he had not heard from her to know she made it back okay) or ask LS to text/call from HT's phone.

I also agree that it is inconsistent that he was so "caring" to perform a "walking test" (which I found extremely odd) but did not think to call HT at any point. I think it is fair to assume that he did not contact HT at any point the following day because when JW contacted her, she hadn't bothered to check LS' room - something HT might have done had JR contacted her to see if LS made it back.

If he was truly concerned for LS, he could have let her take his cell when she left. He could have called her on his cell from his home phone that way (or vice versa) ... and it would have given her some protection walking home.

Regardless of what ultimately happened to her, a lot of people let LS down that night, IMO.

 

[Ixchel13]

In the link posted above,
We spent several pages arguing whether the Mystery Man was AB or CR. A quick listen to the detective's account and comparison of the 3 accounts from the one witness made it clear Mystery Man was Cory Rossman. But still we spin in circles. Furthermore, the witness did not see Lauren near the last cam near 10th and College Village. She saw Lauren near 10th and College almost a block away. Either Very Vertias or I have trouble following the detective's simple narrative. I believe he has Lauren on her feet being pulled along by Cory at the last camera, not piggy back. .

Hope this quote isn't broken. I've been rereading . 10th and College and 10th and College Village run parallel for almost a whole block, and the alley
LS was last seen in runs between them. When you get to the end of the alley, if you turn right, you'll be on a sidewalk, follow it around to the shops that front 10th and College. If the girls who wouldn't let LS in lived in 10th and College as was stated, then Lauren had to be knocking on their door in the alley, because in the front of 10th and College you cannot get to anyone's door without a card key.
It was said somewhere (rumor? speculation?) that after leaving SW and
starting to CR's, LS had a confrontation with someone and had words.
Were they sitting on the steps trying to call the girls to let them in, and when they wouldn't, did they try to knock and still couldn't get in? If, and it's a big IF, Lauren was able to leave JRs, maybe she swung back by these girls '
apt. No one can figure out why LE won't say everything that went on in the alley. Maybe it's because there are other suspects and they don't want anyone to blow it. The second time around, she could have been let in by the front way and would not have been seen by camera, or gone in the parking garage which is down a little from the steps.
By the way, I found a SO who lists 10th and College as his workplace,
but then lies and says it's Wings Extreme, which has never been in that complex. So do you think this guy might have worked in both places? Again, not sure if I'm allowed, or even should, list this guy's name. I find it hard to believe he would list 10th and C if he didn't work there somehow.

 

[Ixchel13]

As if I have nothing to do for the holidays! On this SO who worked in the 47403 zip code,
it came up this person worked at "10th and C" at WingsXtreme. Correct zip code and address, no WingsXtreme, which is located at 10th and the Bypass, or Hwy. 46; also a straight shot down 10th to 10th and College, literally a minute's drive. The zip code for WingsXtreme is 47408. Either this guy works at WingsXtreme and lied about the address, or he works at 10th and College and lied about his work. Either way he's lying. I checked and WingsXtreme delivers to SW and take deliveries until 1:30 a.m. When I lived in Indpls, I randomly found our pizza delivery guy on neighborhood watch, he was a rapist
who was delivering pizzas to me at 2 a.m. Not saying this guy is guilty but if he did work at 10th and College I would be concerned because they have all night maintenance and security guys who drive white trucks. Also I double checked if WingsXtreme ever was in the 10th and College shops, and it's a negative.

 

[VeryVeritas]

2 things I came across last night while reading old articles that I had never read before, or had forgotten. These two things speak loudly to me.

Students who encountered Spierer, 20, and her pal -- identified by friends as Corey Rossman -- leaving the building told The Post that she was drunk, he was bothering her and that he got angry when they asked him to stop.
The first, "He" is CR.
"He was being overly aggressive . . . being so belligerent," one said.

But the two walked away together, winding up at Rossman's apartment, witnesses said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/09/corey-rossman-last-man-to_n_873992.html

The 2nd:
“I feel if she never met Corey Rossman, she’d be alive today,” Robert Spierer said. “His claim of memory loss is laughable.”

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/04...erers-parents-dont-believe-daughter-is-alive/


I'm going on the assumption that Mr. & Mrs. Spierer, while they may not know everything LE knows, know more than we know and he feels this way for a reason.

Now. Where would these guys put her?
*All BBM

Going over old news reports is tricky. Hastiness in reporting has always been a problem. From the classic "Dewey Wins" newspaper headlines to the more recent death of Astronaut Neil Young, and botched reporting of the shooter(first reporting his name as his brother's amongst other falsehoods) and mother of shooter in the Connecticut School massacre. So definitely news stories can't be taken as pure fact, they need to be analyzed.

Now from this huffington post piece (and possibly in statements this past June from PI's) there does seem the possibility that someone saw LS with CR at 5N AFTER her face down fall exiting the Alley. This is a crucial step in the timeline of events. LE must know something more about that Video after her recorded fall. They should be able to know if she got up on her own, or if she were dragged or picked up. From following CR's movements on video, they should know if CR was or was very likely the one moving her at that point. If there are witnesses at 5N that confirm CR returned with her around or about 3:00 that definitely narrows the timeframe.
Some variations on current theories are that CR left her behind 5N and went for help. And then when he returned she was gone. So if there were witnesses that saw him return with her to 5N, this closes that hole.

At the same time, remember the 3:38 Gatto Bartender witness saw LS over someone's shoulder on N. College just north of the 10th and College building. But LE insists that the time MUST be wrong. LE would need to have some very strong evidence or testimony that LS was somewhere ELSE at 3:38 to be discounting that. It seems to me that it must be something more than MB's distortion of what was going on around the time of his 3:30 call to JR.
Was LE basing their disbelief of the 3:38 Bartender on the statements of not only MB, but JR and others present as well? Sort of the word of 3 or 4 people against 1? OR were there other witnesses outside of guests of MB or JR's who actually saw LS alive at 5N around 3:38? That would be very important testimony in support of MB's story. MB definitely would look better if unrelated parties corroborated LS being alive at 3:30 - 3:40 at 5N.
But if LE'd discounting of the 3:38 witness is only based on the conflict with MB's / JR's and maybe 1 JR guest(DB?) stories, then that would seem quite flawed.

If Lauren was really on someone's shoulder at 3:38 near 10th and College, that would prove CR/MB and JR to all be lying. And conversely, if there were solid evidence that Lauren were alive at 5N at 3:38, then it narrows the time frame of what happened down to 1 hr, and takes the focus to JR and JR's apt.

Running through the most public POI's, those last claiming to be with LS, and why something stinks.
1) CR - Amnesia BS - Agreeing with the Spierer's that this is laughable.
There is much to point to CR using this as an obstruction tactic to evade culpability. Because CR hides behind this, this lie is huge.
2) MB - His account of putting CR to bed with LS's assistance does not make sense given LS's condition vs. CR's condition. His further account of LS wanting to party, further embellishes his story that LS was in very much different shape than what has been otherwise observed just minutes prior. So, MB portrays LS to be be in much better condition than CR and makes no comment about her serious injuries. He then does call JR. (We have to really wonder WHY?) This call is public knowledge and was at 3:30. Since MB's is lying about LS, his stated reason for the call is very likely BS too.
3) JR - Gives interesting details which seem designed to lead one to think that JR is a caring friend. He notices LS's injuries, but doesn't comment on any course of action regarding the injuries. He notices that LS can't discern the different between an ipod and an iphone. These observations appear more accurate and consistent with LS's known condition than MB's account. A notable inconsistency. But then JR has not really fully explained the 45 minutes or so that LS was supposedly at his place from around the 3:38 time frame to just after 4:15. From his statements or attributed statements we can cover about 5 to 10 minutes of those 45 minutes. JR has also admitted to go so far as to give Lauren a peculiar sobriety "Walk Test" in order to allow her to leave. Here, and in his other observations he is making it clear that he is not FU'd, JR doesn't have amnesia, and he is able to make very clear observations about LS's condition. Why would he not just let her leave? He knew that he was responsible for her and already culpable. Then 2 calls are made from JR's phone at 4:15 , supposedly these calls are LS or on LS's behalf looking for her phone. But her phone isn't called, JW isn't called, HT isn't called, 911 isn't called, family isn't called, nor is anyone who might let her into her apt, called. Just DR who is attributed with sharing drugs with LS earlier in the evening at JR's and/or his place, who happens to live at SW, and Mr. POI(LE withholding this person's identity is curious) who also was partying with LS earlier in the evening at SW. The Girlfriends at 10th and College where she was knocking on the door shortly beforehand are also not called.
Also very oddly, while JR claims to watching LS leave from his tiny balcony, he makes no attempt to follow up on her arrival back to SW.

So, CR has no leg to stand on and basically is taking the 5th with his bogus amnesia, because probably anything he could say would incriminate him.
MB's BS story covers heavily for CR, while absolving himself of any culpability and passes the buck to JR. MB is a transparent liar. JR's story appears to involve half-truths to make it seem more believable, yet is full of inconsistencies (a more sophisticated and experienced liar). By noting the injuries, he indirectly points a finger at CR. By noting her serious condition, he brings to light the glaring inconsistency of MB's story. But both of these observations fit with known facts. Trouble is that JR acts on his own observations in a strange way. A way that seems designed to get himself off the hook, rather than demonstrate genuine concern for Lauren.

For me to seriously consider someone else outside of these POI's (and guests) being involved, I have to get past the lies and inconsistencies of these 3. And part of that is determining when LS would have really left 5N and how. Did she never make it to 5N and all of this was cover up?
Was it at 3:30 over someone's shoulder and all of this is cover up? or was it really after 4:15, barefoot, injured and able to pass JR's walk test? Were the 4:15 calls really LS looking for her phone, or was it someone trying to find out what LS was on or trying to get a story straight? Unfortunately it still looks to me like these POI's are involved in a cover up.
So how does LE's certainty that LS was not at 10th and College at 3:38 affect this...? If this evidence were substantial, then that should peg LS at JR's regardless of CR/MB's lies. And so working with that; either LS leaves just after 4:15, or she died at JR's. Consider, what would JR do and how he would behave if LS had died or was dying somewhere between 3:38 and 4:15. Compare to what JR would do and how he would behave if LS really did leave at 4:15.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I was just about the ask the same question.

We know that Lauren's wallet and keys were left very close to where she fell exiting the alley. The only thing I have seen about her possessing artifacts is that JR said she had both her "fake" ID (and it would curious to know if he pointed out the fact that it was "fake") and her SW keycard.
If we are to take JR's word on this, then yes she could have regained entry to SW. However, someone would have still needed to let her into her apt.
But no advance calls were made to HT or whomever else might get her back into her apt.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Quick edit (for some reason I can't edit my original post)

VeryVeritas did NOT say that. I believe she was saying JR should have told told her to call/text him. My bad. Either way though, you would think JR would have wanted a call or text letting him know she got back okay, or at least would have tried calling the next day. He's supposedly this caring, brotherly type (according to HT). So, why wasn't JR calling LS or HT that night or the following morning/early afternoon to make sure she was okay?

Close enough... yes the point was that JR did nothing to follow up, which is very inconsistent with his thorough observations on her condition and his concern for her. His 4:15 calls and later behavior is more consistent with him knowing that she was dying or deceased, rather than continuing his concern for LS's well being.
What kind of effort would it have taken to make a call at 4:30-4:45 to HT or even try LS's phone?
It also seems perhaps a lot less effort to just walk a barefoot LS back to SW than spend a minimum of 45-55 minutes observing. He was making conscious decisions.

 

[Ixchel13]

Consider, what would JR do and how he would behave if LS had died or was dying somewhere between 3:38 and 4:15. Compare to what JR would do and how he would behave if LS really did leave at 4:15.

First of all, please don't think I'm defending the POIs. VV just made some valid points about other witnesses seeing LS at JR's. We all know LE hasn't told us everything. Obviously, JR admitted to being the last person to see LS. If she were in fact dead by that time, he would only admit to seeing her last if he gave her the drugs and everyone knew it, so he had to help. If she was alive when he first saw her again after leaving MBs,
then he would have to admit being with her last because of witnesses. Or,
maybe she was alive when he last saw her. To not see that as a possibility
to me seems like that is the preferred way most people want to see it. It is the least painful and the easiest answer. If she were my kid, and I had all these kids alive after she is presumed dead, that is the theory I would focus on, I think all of their silence adds up to alot of drugs, alot of drug dealing, and their parents worried about their futures being ruined and their fortunes being ruined. If she were my kid, and I found out people messed with my daughter and then she disappeared, I would go after them with every possible means I could find. Sorry if they are young, didn't know any better, etc, we all eff up, etc. All of these kids were a bit out of control, there was a pic up on FB that has HT sticking out her tongue for the camera with a bar of Xanax on it. In the background on the counter is the vodka and lemonade
and shot glasses to make lemon drops. Vodka+Xanax=blackouts. If they somehow caused LS to disappear through negligence such as pranks, slipping her drugs, etc, then everyone of them needs to go down without mercy, sorry.
Finding this one SO that is possibly a late night food delivery person
made me think of the fact that at 4:30 a.m., practically the only vehicles around are delivery cars and they do deliver until 4 a.m.!
There has to be other witnesses who saw her alive or these kids would have been treated alot differently. If the cadaver dogs had signalled, they would've been treated differently.
Let's go back to the alley. If LS and CR were knocking on a door in the alley and then went on, the cameras don't shut off. Someone could have then left that apt and then walked up the alley, again nothing could be proven because the cameras end at the end of the alley. But if she knocked on the door several scenarios present themselves--was JW at that apt?
To me, IMO, MOO, my first suspect is abduction by not a stranger but perhaps someone who lurks or is in the area alot, or after she left the apt,JW.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Going over old news reports is tricky. Hastiness in reporting has always been a problem. From the classic "Dewey Wins" newspaper headlines to the more recent death of Astronaut Neil Young, and botched reporting of the shooter(first reporting his name as his brother's amongst other falsehoods) and mother of shooter in the Connecticut School massacre. So definitely news stories can't be taken as pure fact, they need to be analyzed.

Now from this huffington post piece (and possibly in statements this past June from PI's) there does seem the possibility that someone saw LS with CR at 5N AFTER her face down fall exiting the Alley. This is a crucial step in the timeline of events. LE must know something more about that Video after her recorded fall. They should be able to know if she got up on her own, or if she were dragged or picked up. From following CR's movements on video, they should know if CR was or was very likely the one moving her at that point. If there are witnesses at 5N that confirm CR returned with her around or about 3:00 that definitely narrows the timeframe.
Some variations on current theories are that CR left her behind 5N and went for help. And then when he returned she was gone. So if there were witnesses that saw him return with her to 5N, this closes that hole.

At the same time, remember the 3:38 Gatto Bartender witness saw LS over someone's shoulder on N. College just north of the 10th and College building. But LE insists that the time MUST be wrong. LE would need to have some very strong evidence or testimony that LS was somewhere ELSE at 3:38 to be discounting that. It seems to me that it must be something more than MB's distortion of what was going on around the time of his 3:30 call to JR.
Was LE basing their disbelief of the 3:38 Bartender on the statements of not only MB, but JR and others present as well? Sort of the word of 3 or 4 people against 1? OR were there other witnesses outside of guests of MB or JR's who actually saw LS alive at 5N around 3:38? That would be very important testimony in support of MB's story. MB definitely would look better if unrelated parties corroborated LS being alive at 3:30 - 3:40 at 5N.
But if LE'd discounting of the 3:38 witness is only based on the conflict with MB's / JR's and maybe 1 JR guest(DB?) stories, then that would seem quite flawed.

If Lauren was really on someone's shoulder at 3:38 near 10th and College, that would prove CR/MB and JR to all be lying. And conversely, if there were solid evidence that Lauren were alive at 5N at 3:38, then it narrows the time frame of what happened down to 1 hr, and takes the focus to JR and JR's apt.

Running through the most public POI's, those last claiming to be with LS, and why something stinks.
1) CR - Amnesia BS - Agreeing with the Spierer's that this is laughable.
There is much to point to CR using this as an obstruction tactic to evade culpability. Because CR hides behind this, this lie is huge.
2) MB - His account of putting CR to bed with LS's assistance does not make sense given LS's condition vs. CR's condition. His further account of LS wanting to party, further embellishes his story that LS was in very much different shape than what has been otherwise observed just minutes prior. So, MB portrays LS to be be in much better condition than CR and makes no comment about her serious injuries. He then does call JR. (We have to really wonder WHY?) This call is public knowledge and was at 3:30. Since MB's is lying about LS, his stated reason for the call is very likely BS too.
3) JR - Gives interesting details which seem designed to lead one to think that JR is a caring friend. He notices LS's injuries, but doesn't comment on any course of action regarding the injuries. He notices that LS can't discern the different between an ipod and an iphone. These observations appear more accurate and consistent with LS's known condition than MB's account. A notable inconsistency. But then JR has not really fully explained the 45 minutes or so that LS was supposedly at his place from around the 3:38 time frame to just after 4:15. From his statements or attributed statements we can cover about 5 to 10 minutes of those 45 minutes. JR has also admitted to go so far as to give Lauren a peculiar sobriety "Walk Test" in order to allow her to leave. Here, and in his other observations he is making it clear that he is not FU'd, JR doesn't have amnesia, and he is able to make very clear observations about LS's condition. Why would he not just let her leave? He knew that he was responsible for her and already culpable. Then 2 calls are made from JR's phone at 4:15 , supposedly these calls are LS or on LS's behalf looking for her phone. But her phone isn't called, JW isn't called, HT isn't called, 911 isn't called, family isn't called, nor is anyone who might let her into her apt, called. Just DR who is attributed with sharing drugs with LS earlier in the evening at JR's and/or his place, who happens to live at SW, and Mr. POI(LE withholding this person's identity is curious) who also was partying with LS earlier in the evening at SW. The Girlfriends at 10th and College where she was knocking on the door shortly beforehand are also not called.
Also very oddly, while JR claims to watching LS leave from his tiny balcony, he makes no attempt to follow up on her arrival back to SW.

So, CR has no leg to stand on and basically is taking the 5th with his bogus amnesia, because probably anything he could say would incriminate him.
MB's BS story covers heavily for CR, while absolving himself of any culpability and passes the buck to JR. MB is a transparent liar. JR's story appears to involve half-truths to make it seem more believable, yet is full of inconsistencies (a more sophisticated and experienced liar). By noting the injuries, he indirectly points a finger at CR. By noting her serious condition, he brings to light the glaring inconsistency of MB's story. But both of these observations fit with known facts. Trouble is that JR acts on his own observations in a strange way. A way that seems designed to get himself off the hook, rather than demonstrate genuine concern for Lauren.

For me to seriously consider someone else outside of these POI's (and guests) being involved, I have to get past the lies and inconsistencies of these 3. And part of that is determining when LS would have really left 5N and how. Did she never make it to 5N and all of this was cover up?
Was it at 3:30 over someone's shoulder and all of this is cover up? or was it really after 4:15, barefoot, injured and able to pass JR's walk test? Were the 4:15 calls really LS looking for her phone, or was it someone trying to find out what LS was on or trying to get a story straight? Unfortunately it still looks to me like these POI's are involved in a cover up.
So how does LE's certainty that LS was not at 10th and College at 3:38 affect this...? If this evidence were substantial, then that should peg LS at JR's regardless of CR/MB's lies. And so working with that; either LS leaves just after 4:15, or she died at JR's. Consider, what would JR do and how he would behave if LS had died or was dying somewhere between 3:38 and 4:15. Compare to what JR would do and how he would behave if LS really did leave at 4:15.

I couldn't possibly agree more with every word of this.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

[/B]
First of all, please don't think I'm defending the POIs. VV just made some valid points about other witnesses seeing LS at JR's. We all know LE hasn't told us everything. Obviously, JR admitted to being the last person to see LS. If she were in fact dead by that time, he would only admit to seeing her last if he gave her the drugs and everyone knew it, so he had to help. If she was alive when he first saw her again after leaving MBs,
then he would have to admit being with her last because of witnesses. Or,
maybe she was alive when he last saw her. To not see that as a possibility
to me seems like that is the preferred way most people want to see it. It is the least painful and the easiest answer. If she were my kid, and I had all these kids alive after she is presumed dead, that is the theory I would focus on, I think all of their silence adds up to alot of drugs, alot of drug dealing, and their parents worried about their futures being ruined and their fortunes being ruined. If she were my kid, and I found out people messed with my daughter and then she disappeared, I would go after them with every possible means I could find. Sorry if they are young, didn't know any better, etc, we all eff up, etc. All of these kids were a bit out of control, there was a pic up on FB that has HT sticking out her tongue for the camera with a bar of Xanax on it. In the background on the counter is the vodka and lemonade
and shot glasses to make lemon drops. Vodka+Xanax=blackouts. If they somehow caused LS to disappear through negligence such as pranks, slipping her drugs, etc, then everyone of them needs to go down without mercy, sorry.
Finding this one SO that is possibly a late night food delivery person
made me think of the fact that at 4:30 a.m., practically the only vehicles around are delivery cars and they do deliver until 4 a.m.!
There has to be other witnesses who saw her alive or these kids would have been treated alot differently. If the cadaver dogs had signalled, they would've been treated differently.
Let's go back to the alley. If LS and CR were knocking on a door in the alley and then went on, the cameras don't shut off. Someone could have then left that apt and then walked up the alley, again nothing could be proven because the cameras end at the end of the alley. But if she knocked on the door several scenarios present themselves--was JW at that apt?
To me, IMO, MOO, my first suspect is abduction by not a stranger but perhaps someone who lurks or is in the area alot, or after she left the apt,JW.

I agree that SO's should be looked into and so I was doing that and I also so this SO you are referring to. I also found a post on a PI's blog that says that the FBI did hard target investigations on all the known SO's in the area. (trying to find the link in my history, I'll post if/when I find it) They either have one or more of them on the list of POI's or they don't. Given that LS's parents are likely privy to who is on the list and they continue to focus solely on LS's friends, that tells me that it's unlikely they have anyone on the list other than the friends and the friends visitor(s). As far as JW goes, I have seen nothing to suggest he's involved, in fact, everything I've seen points to him not being involved.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

At the same time, remember the 3:38 Gatto Bartender witness saw LS over someone's shoulder on N. College just north of the 10th and College building. But LE insists that the time MUST be wrong. LE would need to have some very strong evidence or testimony that LS was somewhere ELSE at 3:38 to be discounting that.
But if LE'd discounting of the 3:38 witness is only based on the conflict with MB's / JR's and maybe 1 JR guest(DB?) stories, then that would seem quite flawed.

.

I'm convinced LE has some other reason for discounting this witness. What that reason is? That's a big question that I don't know the answer too; I wish I did.

 

[Ixchel13]

I agree that SO's should be looked into and so I was doing that and I also so this SO you are referring to. I also found a post on a PI's blog that says that the FBI did hard target investigations on all the known SO's in the area. (trying to find the link in my history, I'll post if/when I find it) They either have one or more of them on the list of POI's or they don't. Given that LS's parents are likely privy to who is on the list and they continue to focus solely on LS's friends, that tells me that it's unlikely they have anyone on the list other than the friends and the friends visitor(s). As far as JW goes, I have seen nothing to suggest he's involved, in fact, everything I've seen points to him not being involved.

Well, there's JW's roommate saying he went to bed and HT vouching for him the next day, just like the other set of roommates/friends/POIs vouching for one another. We think JW is this sensitive, wonderful guy because HT says so; and we have CR protrayed as the villain because HT says so. If LS somehow accidentally died, any one of these people could have been involved in a myriad of scenarios; guys and girls.
Here's how she could be in seemingly two places at once: She arrives at MBs and CRs apt at around 3 a.m., CR goes from bad to worse, gets put to bed, and LS asks MB to party but he declines so she tells him she's going to JR's. 5N doesn't have hallways, they are attached townhomes so she needs to go outside and then to JR's. After she gets outside, she decides to go back to those girls' apt at 10th and College and somehow winds up over someone's shoulder(someone she knew) at 3:38. This person carries her back to JR's, there's a way you can walk a little bit up College and then cut to the left and go across the lot to the back of JR's building, avoiding any of that alley's cameras. If LS hasn't had anything since Kilroy's then there is the tiniest chance she started to get better at JR's and as soon as she did she immediately wanted her phone and to go home. Lauren had already been issued a PI, JR knew this and a walking test is really not that crazy; also, it's also a reason he selfishly didn't check back up on her. She passed his little test, and no news is good news, he called it a night. and I steadfastly believe that chance is 25% That really isn't very good odds in his favor anyway, jus sayin.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Well, there's JW's roommate saying he went to bed and HT vouching for him the next day, just like the other set of roommates/friends/POIs vouching for one another. We think JW is this sensitive, wonderful guy because HT says so; and we have CR protrayed as the villain because HT says so. If LS somehow accidentally died, any one of these people could have been involved in a myriad of scenarios; guys and girls.
Here's how she could be in seemingly two places at once: She arrives at MBs and CRs apt at around 3 a.m., CR goes from bad to worse, gets put to bed, and LS asks MB to party but he declines so she tells him she's going to JR's. 5N doesn't have hallways, they are attached townhomes so she needs to go outside and then to JR's. After she gets outside, she decides to go back to those girls' apt at 10th and College and somehow winds up over someone's shoulder(someone she knew) at 3:38. This person carries her back to JR's, there's a way you can walk a little bit up College and then cut to the left and go across the lot to the back of JR's building, avoiding any of that alley's cameras. If LS hasn't had anything since Kilroy's then there is the tiniest chance she started to get better at JR's and as soon as she did she immediately wanted her phone and to go home. Lauren had already been issued a PI, JR knew this and a walking test is really not that crazy; also, it's also a reason he selfishly didn't check back up on her. She passed his little test, and no news is good news, he called it a night. and I steadfastly believe that chance is 25% That really isn't very good odds in his favor anyway, jus sayin.

Maybe I'm daft or tired but I'm having a difficult time seeing how this would implicate JW specifically. But, I'm certainly open to clarification.
5 things stand out to me as excluding JW,
1st LS's family doesn't seem suspicious of JW,
2nd JW's rumored p/o'd-ness at and barging in at JR's (with his father) demanding answers.
3rd he's the first one to have called attention to LS's disappearance, which while I guess doesn't absolutely disqualify him, it would certainly be ballsy and in my opinion unlikely for the kid to do if he had every reason to believe he hadn't been spotted with LS and had an alibi.
4th JW would have to have some foreknowledge of the camera situation to avoid them...why would he have that foreknowledge?
5th If there is one thing that can disarm a pissed off boyfriend or girlfriend it's injury.
I think, even if he had been able to sneak away from home without his room mates knowledge (probably wouldn't be that difficult) and he's mad and looking for LS he has to luck up and come up on her all alone with no one else in sight. He's going to find her nearly incoherent, barefoot, blackened eyes and probably other facial injuries, and likely sick. I can see him coming at her with the intention of ...what? Arguing, accusing, yelling at her, calling her names, attacking her or otherwise taking out his anger and jealousy on her BUT when he gets close he will see the mess she is and stop in his tracks. Now, instead of yelling at her, I think he will be shocked and say "OMG! L! What happened to you? Are you ok?" If he had went out looking for LS I don't think we would be here talking about her disappearance a year and half after the fact.
Obviously, I don't know JW or the kind of guy he is so I'm making major assumptions and I could be wrong.

 

[Ros]

I agree that SO's should be looked into and so I was doing that and I also so this SO you are referring to. I also found a post on a PI's blog that says that the FBI did hard target investigations on all the known SO's in the area. (trying to find the link in my history, I'll post if/when I find it) They either have one or more of them on the list of POI's or they don't. Given that LS's parents are likely privy to who is on the list and they continue to focus solely on LS's friends, that tells me that it's unlikely they have anyone on the list other than the friends and the friends visitor(s). As far as JW goes, I have seen nothing to suggest he's involved, in fact, everything I've seen points to him not being involved.

I think it was the US Marshal's Office that investigated all the known SO's in the area. They were all found. That does not mean that any of them were cleared.

http://www.wthr.com/story/15044254/...earch-of-sex-offenders-near-spierer-apartment

 

[AbbeyR]

...She arrives at MBs and CRs apt at around 3 a.m., CR goes from bad to worse, gets put to bed, and LS asks MB to party but he declines so she tells him she's going to JR's. 5N doesn't have hallways, they are attached townhomes so she needs to go outside and then to JR's. After she gets outside, she decides to go back to those girls' apt at 10th and College and somehow winds up over someone's shoulder(someone she knew) at 3:38. This person carries her back to JR's, there's a way you can walk a little bit up College and then cut to the left and go across the lot to the back of JR's building, avoiding any of that alley's cameras.

Omg, the person who carried LS was CR! It is no longer a mystery!

The 'mystery man' is like the white truck, it won't go away! ;P

 

[VeryVeritas]

Omg, the person who carried LS was CR! It is no longer a mystery!

The 'mystery man' is like the white truck, it won't go away! ;P

It's only CR if its before 2:50, maybe as early as 2:30. If there was someone carrying her at 3:38 that ID has never been confirmed.

 

[AbbeyR]

Gatto's "mystery man" witness and the PI's witness who described CR carrying Lauren are the same witness. No one else saw anyone carrying Lauren, and LE said the time of Gatto's witness was wrong.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Gatto's "mystery man" witness and the PI's witness who described CR carrying Lauren are the same witness. No one else saw anyone carrying Lauren, and LE said the time of Gatto's witness was wrong.

1) I'm not aware the Gatto witness confirmed that it was CR.
I've never seen a post that Gatto and/or the witness agree with LE that the time was wrong.

2) If LE is so sure the time is wrong and that it was CR, then the time must be before 2:50, as I said. The ONLY people that I'm aware of that claim to have seen Lauren ALIVE or AT ALL after that face down fall exiting the Alley, is MB and JR. Although there have been statements made that others were present at CR/MB's and JR's, yet I'm not aware of any quotes directly from those people (or even secondhand statements) that they saw LS at CR/MB's or JR's after 3:00.

3) I've also never seen a statement from PI's saying that their witness, was Gatto's witness. Sorry if I missed that one, please repost.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Maybe I'm daft or tired but I'm having a difficult time seeing how this would implicate JW specifically. But, I'm certainly open to clarification.
5 things stand out to me as excluding JW,
1st LS's family doesn't seem suspicious of JW,
2nd JW's rumored p/o'd-ness at and barging in at JR's (with his father) demanding answers.
3rd he's the first one to have called attention to LS's disappearance, which while I guess doesn't absolutely disqualify him, it would certainly be ballsy and in my opinion unlikely for the kid to do if he had every reason to believe he hadn't been spotted with LS and had an alibi.
4th JW would have to have some foreknowledge of the camera situation to avoid them...why would he have that foreknowledge?
5th If there is one thing that can disarm a pissed off boyfriend or girlfriend it's injury.
I think, even if he had been able to sneak away from home without his room mates knowledge (probably wouldn't be that difficult) and he's mad and looking for LS he has to luck up and come up on her all alone with no one else in sight. He's going to find her nearly incoherent, barefoot, blackened eyes and probably other facial injuries, and likely sick. I can see him coming at her with the intention of ...what? Arguing, accusing, yelling at her, calling her names, attacking her or otherwise taking out his anger and jealousy on her BUT when he gets close he will see the mess she is and stop in his tracks. Now, instead of yelling at her, I think he will be shocked and say "OMG! L! What happened to you? Are you ok?" If he had went out looking for LS I don't think we would be here talking about her disappearance a year and half after the fact.
Obviously, I don't know JW or the kind of guy he is so I'm making major assumptions and I could be wrong.

Statistically deaths and disappearances occur by the hand of someone very close to the deceased / disappeared. Stranger murder/abduction is not typical. And boyfriend / Spouse murder is #1 or #2 most likely in these cases. However, in this case, I agree there is nothing to implicate JW and his behavior IS consistent with someone who is innocent and genuinely cared about Lauren.