IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29

[akh]

But they are not proceeding with that right now. Why not? Anyone paying attention knows.

Because it would absolutely destroy the criminal case if they are wrong, even if LE would find an actual suspect.

In fact, it likely would be the end of LE's criminal investigation if (and/or when) the Spierers take anyone to civil court unless something new was to come out in civil court that would give the prosecutor something to act upon with the person the Spierers would be suing.

 

[AbbeyR]

Hi Mfunky, Welcome! Great first post -- I'm with you on all of it.

 

[Dixie811]

Hi everyone,

I was 21 when Lauren went missing and had just graduated from Michigan State, in which hearing about her disappearance shortly after it happened really got my attention and shook me to the core since so many aspects of that night I lived countless times throughout my years in college. It absolutely saddens me that almost two years later her parents still don't have answers. Anyways, being that I'm obsessed with this case, I've been reading these bulletin boards and finally decided to join in on the discussion.

A couple thoughts:

Judging from the PIs report on LS's condition on the walk back to 5N, LS's condition obviously went from "stumbling around drunk" to barely functioning. Therefore, I'm going to assume whatever happened happened shortly after getting to 5N. My guess is that JR was contacted because things with LS were going downhill faster and faster and faster and CR and MB needed help, or it was too late. By no means do I believe LS was able to engage in conversation by the time JR was involved. I base that conclusion off of the total inconsistencies of MB. He kept changing his story about the last time he saw LS....why lie about that unless there is a reason? Obviously that piece of information plays a key part in putting together the pieces of what happened to LS and who was involved. And with that in mind/further support...

Snipped for space

Great first post!!! :Welcome1:

 

[akh]

Another thing I've always found interesting about the phone calls (yes it's circumstantial, but nonetheless interesting) is how no voicemails were left. Obviously if JR placed the calls, he would NOT leave a voicemail indicating what's going on. You know who would though? A drunk person. Drunk people LOVE leaving voicemails.

What DO we know about the 2nd call as far as what has been said? It was from JR's phone I believe, but was it supposed to be JR using it or LS? And do we know a message wasn't left with the 2nd call?

 

[AbbeyR]

In the half-hour before she purportedly left, two calls were placed from Rosenbaum’s phone. Rosenbaum said Spierer placed both calls, one to Rohn and another to a male friend who also was with her earlier that night watching basketball at Smallwood. Both were sleeping, neither picked up, and no messages were left.

It's a good thing I have this page bookmarked, friends. I swear I have quoted this exact paragraph at least 5 times

 

[akh]

Both were sleeping, neither picked up, and no messages were left.

I wonder if by any chance there was random conversation recorded before the phone was hung up?

Example: Ring Ring Ring ...voice mail message from receiver.... "Crrrrrap he's not answering. It's just his voicemail" 'click' - hang up.

Or a short background conversation before hanging up. Which would then be interesting to know what voices are speaking.

Technically, that would not be leaving a message. And would LE tell us if they did have something like that?

Probably a shot in the dark....

 

[Ixchel13]

Really weird that HT is a topic of discussion tonight. Just this morning I had an epiphany that she KNOWS what happened. The fact that she said "Lauren went a little too far this time" says that she knows exactly what happened. WHY can't the police bring some of these POIs and even HT in for questioning? I don't understand why they can't question these guys/gals and get their stories individually and see if someone will crack. I honestly think HT knows what happened and possibly even where she is. HT is obviously covering for JR. Another thing I don't understand is why everyone is being quiet. Obviously CR and ZO aren't friends, sk why wouldn't they try and point the finger at each other? Why are all of them being quiet? That boggles my mind!

Abbey, this is what I'm saying about HT. Early in the investigation, her words were taken as true. Except, remember, she backs JR. And she adores JW.
And ZO could have been at her apt. watching the game. The altercation happened near their door by the elevator.

 

[akh]

These people have all spoken with LE so who knows if they pointed fingers and/or had any suspicions they shared or not? We know LE is being tight-lipped and we've been told LE asked these people not to speak publicly.

 

[Jacobite]

Did Lauren put up any kind of resistance or struggle? If so, I'm afraid the evidence was destroyed by searchers very early on.

 

[Ixchel13]

Did Lauren put up any kind of resistance or struggle? If so, I'm afraid the evidence was destroyed by searchers very early on.

if you trace her path, everything has been remodelled except the alley she was filmed in. The corner she turned, and the houses near the corner, all gone or remodelled. Kilroys, remodelled. 5N and buildings next to it, the back of all remodelled. Across from 5N which was fields, all have new apts and townhomes all the way up to the corner. The alley leading to House Bar, another place very near JRs that is one of my theories she ended up or was heading to, all remodelled. Both Kilroys and House Bar closed during the heat of her disappearance to open quietly back up months later.
For all general purposes, anywhere she might have gone IF she did leave JRs has been changed or torn down.
If her body had been hidden by construction somehow, covered in cement, IDK, it could have been moved long ago and removed during all of this construction. Not saying it's a conspiracy, because on the other hand, if the POIs did leave her hidden nearby, surely they would have found her during this extensive construction. Really, I can only see a local doing this, or the out of town guest. The other POIs may be smart, canny, whatever, but they
don't have the know how of this land, the search effort was extensive and covered miles and miles. The reward was enough to bring all these locals who knew the land out to look for her. The tweet from Runcible Spoon was/could have been a code. A three way code. Someone took her out of town, hours later tweeted DB, who then tweeted about corned beef to establish he was in town. But was his car in town?

 

[mik1965]

if you trace her path, everything has been remodelled except the alley she was filmed in. The corner she turned, and the houses near the corner, all gone or remodelled. Kilroys, remodelled. 5N and buildings next to it, the back of all remodelled. Across from 5N which was fields, all have new apts and townhomes all the way up to the corner. The alley leading to House Bar, another place very near JRs that is one of my theories she ended up or was heading to, all remodelled. Both Kilroys and House Bar closed during the heat of her disappearance to open quietly back up months later.
For all general purposes, anywhere she might have gone IF she did leave JRs has been changed or torn down.
If her body had been hidden by construction somehow, covered in cement, IDK, it could have been moved long ago and removed during all of this construction. Not saying it's a conspiracy, because on the other hand, if the POIs did leave her hidden nearby, surely they would have found her during this extensive construction. Really, I can only see a local doing this, or the out of town guest. The other POIs may be smart, canny, whatever, but they
don't have the know how of this land, the search effort was extensive and covered miles and miles. The reward was enough to bring all these locals who knew the land out to look for her. The tweet from Runcible Spoon was/could have been a code. A three way code. Someone took her out of town, hours later tweeted DB, who then tweeted about corned beef to establish he was in town. But was his car in town?

This makes ALOT of sense. DB was perhaps the one who got rid of her and wasn't even at Runcible Spoon. That would also explain why EVERYONE is being quiet. They are afraid of his family and the power behind his family. That explains why no one is pointing fingers at anyone else. They are all afraid...that is the ONE thing that they all have in common, regardless of whether they're friends or not. For example, why wouldn't ZO implicate CR and vice versa...or JW implicate CR? It's because they all fear for their lives.

 

[imkeylime]

...I don't buy the story of MB putting CR to bed after CR puked, or that LS wanted to keep partying. Yes, I recognize that people do get second winds while partying....but I fail to believe a 90lb girl with a heart condition who quite possibly consumed alcohol / drugs and just sustained scary head injuries would go from barely conscious to wanting to party. If anything, she would be in total agony from hitting her head and would want to sleep. Being that I don't believe this, I don't believe MB contacted JR because LS wanted to keep partying/she knew him better/make her his problem. And this goes back to my initial thought of MBs inconsistencies speaking volumes. This is the part where he can't keep his story straight...

Another thing I've always found interesting about the phone calls (yes it's circumstantial, but nonetheless interesting) is how no voicemails were left. Obviously if JR placed the calls, he would NOT leave a voicemail indicating what's going on. You know who would though? A drunk person. Drunk people LOVE leaving voicemails. And if LS was really looking for her phone....more reason, on top of being zonked to leave a voicemail.

Sorry for the long post. In closing, I'd just like to add that I believe a lot more answers would have been determined early on if JR was never thrown into the mix by CR and MB. Adding him added so much onto their "stories of what happened"... imagine how different everything would be if the story ended pre-JR involvement. Additionally, I really feel like MB would have been the person LE could have "broken" for information, being that he gave many many variations of the last time he saw Lauren. The only thing from his story I'm going to believe is that he truly was working on papers for school, and was just in the wrong place at the wrong time when all of this happened. However, he chose to move forward in the way he did, so no sympathy here.

Snipped by me. First of all, welcome and thanks for sharing your insights. Secondly, I totally agree about both 1) the phone calls and 2) MB. I've always thought something was off with the phone calls, and not leaving a message is a sign of that. Also ... MB does seem central. I can buy that CR passed out ... maybe he didn't, but IMO, he may have had enough in him to get LS to 5N but nothing more. That would leave it up to MB and JR, which is kind of how the story (stories) play out. JMO.

 

[doubtingthomas]

Need a clarification. Did the altercation between CR and ZO happen outside of LS room? I know it was stated outside the elevator doors but how close to her room. If it was outside her room, were there anyone still in the room? If so, how could they not here all the commotion? Would they not have opened the door to see what was going on? I was also thinking about the statement HT made about LS went a little to far this time. I'm sure JR told her he saw her leave and round the corner. Is this the kind of statement you would make if you thought a possible abduction happened? Makes me think she knows what happened.

 

[Ixchel13]

Need a clarification. Did the altercation between CR and ZO happen outside of LS room? I know it was stated outside the elevator doors but how close to her room. If it was outside her room, were there anyone still in the room? If so, how could they not here all the commotion? Would they not have opened the door to see what was going on? I was also thinking about the statement HT made about LS went a little to far this time. I'm sure JR told her he saw her leave and round the corner. Is this the kind of statement you would make if you thought a possible abduction happened? Makes me think she knows what happened.

Bold and italics by me. This might be the shrewdest deduction so far. And she also spoke several times about Lauren in the past tense at the beinning of this as well, once saying that JW loved her so much, i.e. not he loves her so much but he loved her so much. Several people picked up on her past tenses on PT.

 

[Ixchel13]

also, the altercation was near their room. ZO could have been making sure no one got in Lauren's apt., for that there could be several reasons--incl. was JW in there? Also, was DB in there? Local drug dealer that ZO was running security for? One thing about some of these kids is that they played at being gangstas, the lingo, the clothes, the way they treated their girlfriends, but they had no clue what the real gangstas will do to someone.For her not to enter her own apt when she obviously took the elevator up there was definitely something going on in there.
How and why she ended up at 5N is important, but in reality, something
completely different could have happened after leaving IF she left. The flibberdigibbity friends contributed to the end result.

 

[Snapfade]

Ixchel,

You've brought up the roommates a few times, but I haven't seen anything or anyone give any reason to suggest they were involved in anything that happened that night. Have you? Just wondering if I'm missing something or if this is just a hunch?

had an amazing experience on Saturday afternoon, was driving around a bend in
a busy, upscale residential area and saw this cute little boy approx 2-1/2 yrs just running towards the street. Thought I'd see an adult but no one in sight! So I stopped my truck right in the middle of the street and got out, stopped a man and his wife going the other way and we stopped traffic going that way. The kid was dodging everyone, but
safe from being run over and about 20 cars in each direction at a standstill.
I went around the corner where he came from and it was this very, very steep ridge
and these people yelled from a balcony that he had come from way up the hill , this was woodsy. I ran back to where the woman had the boy, they had called 911 and found out I
the boy was reported missing. People jumped in to help in this situation. Three police cars screeched up. Happy ending. I felt wonderful and everyone was giving thumbs up and yet I felt freaked out too.
This took about 9 minutes from the time I saw him til the police had him safe.Not to be a debbie downer, but had I been a bad person, I could have scooped him up, granted, lots of witnesses driving by. This isn't a lecture to anyone, just saying that bad
opportunities do come up and it isn't a .001% chance.
I looked in the police runs but couldn't find the incident, which happened Sat. about 2:30 or 3 maybe earlier. As a mother, I think of how that mom felt as she called it in. Being way up on the top of a wooded hilly ravine and knowing that he wasn't in the yard
and was really gone. And that someone may have grabbed him.
We will never feel the anguish of the Spierers unless it has also happened to one of us, my heart goes out to them and anyone who has had to face this pain. We will continue as a city to try to find clues towards finding out what happened to Lauren.

very good point about the voice mails.....

Want to throw scenerio out that ive not heard yet... Is there a possibilty that CR and LS went to do coke that CR purchased from JR.... If JR cut the coke with another type of drug , he had reason to be panicked. . It could also explain ZO punching CR... If DR brought back cut coke to ZO , thinking CR cut it, when really JR could had..... does that make.sense to anyone?

 

[doubtingthomas]

very good point about the voice mails.....

Want to throw scenerio out that ive not heard yet... Is there a possibilty that CR and LS went to do coke that CR purchased from JR.... If JR cut the coke with another type of drug , he had reason to be panicked. . It could also explain ZO punching CR... If DR brought back cut coke to ZO , thinking CR cut it, when really JR could had..... does that make.sense to anyone?

I think it is a good possibilty. He could have also been PO'd at CR if he thought he had given it to LS and now he sees the condition she is in. I never believed that he was PO'd at CR because he was with LS and ZO wanted to be, or he was gettting back at him for JW. Remember, ZO and CR were together a couple weeks before at the Indy 500. If they didn't like each other why wasn't there a altercation then? I think this whole issue has to do with the drugs and why all of them are being silent.

 

[mfunky]

Snipped by me. First of all, welcome and thanks for sharing your insights. Secondly, I totally agree about both 1) the phone calls and 2) MB. I've always thought something was off with the phone calls, and not leaving a message is a sign of that. Also ... MB does seem central. I can buy that CR passed out ... maybe he didn't, but IMO, he may have had enough in him to get LS to 5N but nothing more. That would leave it up to MB and JR, which is kind of how the story (stories) play out. JMO.

AGREED! While I definitely believe CR and JR are aware of what happened that night, I feel like people are focusing on them (as they should), but not focusing enough on MB.

I also find it interesting that DR and MB have the same attorney, and the attorney let DR speak to LS's parents/PI/take an administered polygraph, but didn't have MB do that.... While I know it doesn't mean anyone is guilty/not guilty, it's definitely interesting, and to me it speaks volumes that the SAME attorney (who DEFINITELY knows what he's doing) has two different approaches for the SAME case.

 

[Ros]

I think it is a good possibilty. He could have also been PO'd at CR if he thought he had given it to LS and now he sees the condition she is in. I never believed that he was PO'd at CR because he was with LS and ZO wanted to be, or he was gettting back at him for JW. Remember, ZO and CR were together a couple weeks before at the Indy 500. If they didn't like each other why wasn't there a altercation then? I think this whole issue has to do with the drugs and why all of them are being silent.

I think that it is odd that no charges were ever filed on ZO and that CR does not remember what happened before or after he was punched (although that can happen with a genuine concussion). He was not hit hard enough to be knocked out, since he left with LS soon afterward. Makes me think that someone did not want the witnesses testifying about the event in court; they might not all give the same story.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Lauren's case was my first here on WS...almost 2 yrs ago now. I remember researching different drug combinations, etc etc and feeling so sure that her family would have their answers within weeks...then months. I never thought we would still be here, asking the same questions, or that her mom would still be pleading for answers, in 2013.