I agree, the length of stay, short, at Kilroys is curious as well, especially since 1) she was underage, and 2) was supposed to be on good behavior due to previous Halloween PI charge. WHY risk going to bar where you are not supposed to drink? And, Once you do sneak in with fake ID, wouldn't you just be happy that you tricked the bouncer and stay as long as long as you could? What what the draw to the short stint at Kilroys?
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29
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Veritas, probably not IMO, and here's why. Oakland County is so far removed from Detroit and Flint that it's crazy (and pretty sad, actually). Detroit is a mess—the total opposite of what these guys grew up with and in—and Flint's about as bad but smaller. I could see JR and DB in and with ties to NYC before either of these. JMO. (I grew up in Oakland County, just north of JR and DB, and go back twice a year.) Detroit and Flint are worlds away despite their proximity.
IMO, the involvement here has more to do with entitlement and protecting one's good name/future. The net worth of West Bloomfield and Bloomfield Hills is impressive but can lead to entitlement issues. JR's surname is well known. And DB's family company's success is amazing, especially in a state with MI's economy. I can't imagine the parents of either of these kids taking the news about involvement in a missing person case/scandal well. Just saying.
IMO, it might be prudent to get rid of a vehicle that a POI or POI's guest drove if it contained incriminating evidence in terms of LS' disappearance. (Though we've been told CR's car was searched and JR's was in the shop.) While the existence of a guest could be proven, where that guest stayed and when he came and left could be manipulated, I'd think. ???
It significantly exceeded city limits. All of Monroe County was "covered" including areas of adjoining counties. Quotes mine because we are still talking civilian searches in some extremely dense spots.
doubtingthomas
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A few other thoughts that have popped into my head while trying to catch up with you all:
-having a keg at a party was a semi-big deal in college and would never happen in a scenario where you'd plan for a few people to come over and pre-party. Granted I didn't come from the same financial background as the keg hosts, but we were all about re-couping the costs of the purchase a few dollars per cup at a time. I'd estimate 30-40 unique people over there at a minimum at different points.
-land line phones? I'm just going to have to disagree that they would even be present in any student apartment anywhere in Bloomington. I'm sure they may be present a few spots for unknown reasons, but heavy heavy minority, pretty much extinct.
-IMO probation and fake ID's (especially female fakes) are not really taken very seriously. Again, exceptions to every generalization, but most students wouldn't think twice about continued underage drinking or entering a bar with a fake ID despite being on probation from a prior citation.
-What jumped out to me in the article last summer when the crazy guy was arrested in the Kilroys parking lot ranting about LS:"One thing to make clear," Qualters said, "he did not have any additional information other than what had been released to the media previously, so he is not considered a suspect and was essentially eliminated as having any involvement in that case.". I'm sure it is common LE practice to hold certain facts back from the media in order to verify someone's true involvement. The talk about the Behrman/Clouse confession earlier reminded me of this aspect after the significant amount of resources that were wasted to drain Salt Creek in that case. LE has more here that we don't know, the relevance of what they have is of course a big unknown.
-having a keg at a party was a semi-big deal in college and would never happen in a scenario where you'd plan for a few people to come over and pre-party. Granted I didn't come from the same financial background as the keg hosts, but we were all about re-couping the costs of the purchase a few dollars per cup at a time. I'd estimate 30-40 unique people over there at a minimum at different points.
-land line phones? I'm just going to have to disagree that they would even be present in any student apartment anywhere in Bloomington. I'm sure they may be present a few spots for unknown reasons, but heavy heavy minority, pretty much extinct.
-IMO probation and fake ID's (especially female fakes) are not really taken very seriously. Again, exceptions to every generalization, but most students wouldn't think twice about continued underage drinking or entering a bar with a fake ID despite being on probation from a prior citation.
-What jumped out to me in the article last summer when the crazy guy was arrested in the Kilroys parking lot ranting about LS:"One thing to make clear," Qualters said, "he did not have any additional information other than what had been released to the media previously, so he is not considered a suspect and was essentially eliminated as having any involvement in that case.". I'm sure it is common LE practice to hold certain facts back from the media in order to verify someone's true involvement. The talk about the Behrman/Clouse confession earlier reminded me of this aspect after the significant amount of resources that were wasted to drain Salt Creek in that case. LE has more here that we don't know, the relevance of what they have is of course a big unknown.
My response was related to the volunteer searches that were led by TES and local LE in the weeks right after the disappearance, I'm not sure on any searches that are still going on. Perhaps [email protected] would be able to help steer you in the right direction?
JR's before Kilroys (according to the PI):
http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...avy-drinking-drug-use?gcheck=1&nclick_check=1
http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...avy-drinking-drug-use?gcheck=1&nclick_check=1
Your thoughts on landlines and fake ID are definitely true to my experience.
Thanks for that link. It's interesting that LE was so clear about eliminating this person as a suspect, just like the white truck. Meanwhile, when it came to speculation in the media about certain POI being 'unofficially' cleared, LE jumped in and gave a statement that none of the named POI have been cleared by them.
Taking the focus off the street cams, would Sports have internal/inside cams w tapes to review of ALL patrons, particularly unusual activity from that evening/early am? I recall they were closed for a brief while after LS disappearance for alc violations. Perhaps LE has useful footage from inside bar that they are holding back.. Just thinking.
Ixchel13
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2 weeks after Lauren disappeared, that branch of Kilroys shut down all summer for "remodelling" effectively scattering witnesses, incl. employees, and people investigating as amateurs, etc. and I'm sure they don't film the customers, usually these cameras are pointed at, who knew? the cash registers.
Another young, blonde woman disappears. This one was from Evansville, IN and worked in Louisville.
https://www.facebook.com/suzanne.moore.1422
https://www.facebook.com/suzanne.moore.1422
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2013/feb/21/evansville-woman-reported-missing-feb-16/
From the comments on the FB page "Help Find Ashley Moore" it seems like people may have an idea of who she left with...
I hope she is found safe.
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It's risky enough just walking down the street barefoot in bloomington after being drugged late at night after hanging out at a testosterone convention. But prostitutes and strippers risk their lives daily, it boggles the mind.
VeryVeritas
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When the booze runs dry so does the party...
yet usually a few stragglers.... who they be?
Ixchel13
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Bloomington police are investigating a possible rape that reportedly occurred at about 3 a.m. Sunday after a woman left an apartment clubhouse and walked into a wooded area with unknown men.
The victim, 19, told police she was outside the clubhouse when she was approached by two unknown men who asked her if she wanted to leave and smoke marijuana with them, Bloomington Police Department Sgt. Lucas Tate said. She told police she agreed to the offer, and the three of them walked around the clubhouse into a nearby wooded area.
It was in the wooded area where things turned physical, Tate said.
The men began to pull and tug at the victim, she told police, and tried to kiss her. The men then held her down and raped her, Tate said.
BPD’s on-call detective and evidence technicians were called in, and the woman took police to the place in the woods where the reported rape occurred. There was no marijuana consumed during the incident, Tate said. The woman told police she had been drinking, but was not intoxicated.
The woman was transported to IU Health Bloomington Hospital where a rape kit was performed. The case remains active, and no suspects have been identified, Tate said.
— Kirsten Clark
This article was in yesterday's IDS. I called my friend who is influential and we are getting some people together to see if we can't get a media blast of some sort out to these naive, trusting men and women! Rape flyers because almost every day here someone gets raped it seems.
OT What I've been trying to say all along, things are out of control in these bars. It is about greed. getting an extra 10 or 15 dollars, getting someone over the limit out of 800 peopleX three
and you(bar owner with 3 locations) have an extra 36,000 for the evening. and that's conservative, both in the amount of people and how much more $$$ is involved. More like 100,000. or more extra each night getting people really drunk instead of being happy with a very good living following state laws..
The victim, 19, told police she was outside the clubhouse when she was approached by two unknown men who asked her if she wanted to leave and smoke marijuana with them, Bloomington Police Department Sgt. Lucas Tate said. She told police she agreed to the offer, and the three of them walked around the clubhouse into a nearby wooded area.
It was in the wooded area where things turned physical, Tate said.
The men began to pull and tug at the victim, she told police, and tried to kiss her. The men then held her down and raped her, Tate said.
BPD’s on-call detective and evidence technicians were called in, and the woman took police to the place in the woods where the reported rape occurred. There was no marijuana consumed during the incident, Tate said. The woman told police she had been drinking, but was not intoxicated.
The woman was transported to IU Health Bloomington Hospital where a rape kit was performed. The case remains active, and no suspects have been identified, Tate said.
— Kirsten Clark
This article was in yesterday's IDS. I called my friend who is influential and we are getting some people together to see if we can't get a media blast of some sort out to these naive, trusting men and women! Rape flyers because almost every day here someone gets raped it seems.
OT What I've been trying to say all along, things are out of control in these bars. It is about greed. getting an extra 10 or 15 dollars, getting someone over the limit out of 800 peopleX three
and you(bar owner with 3 locations) have an extra 36,000 for the evening. and that's conservative, both in the amount of people and how much more $$$ is involved. More like 100,000. or more extra each night getting people really drunk instead of being happy with a very good living following state laws..
I'm not sure why I thought LS used JR's home phone (if he has one) vs. cell phone. It makes sense that college apartments wouldn't come furnished with phones, since that would require an additional expenditure that many students wouldn't even be interested in. Most of the articles specify that LS left her "cell" at Sports but used JR's "phone" to call DR (or someone did).
On the other topic ... I'm sure that bars ignore fake IDs from young females all the times. It's probably good for business until they get caught.
This is speculative and a definite 360, but what if MB say yes instead of no and followed LS to JR's where god knows what happened. If CR really passed out (???, I know), maybe he woke up and no one was there ... and that's another thing he has amnesia about. It might account for MB's varying stories and JR putting his neck on the line ... and even CR's memory loss (especially if he was the one who originally slipped her something). Can you poke holes at this? Or ... JR had company that night?
I'd like to say something else in response to your comment and my link (http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/09/10/imovation-solutions-putting-the-fun-in-five-hour-energy/).
It interests me that some PR person put such a spin on this that the local CBS affiliate referred to JR and DB as "the kind of young guys who will probably go far." Only in the comments section was LS brought up. Maybe the article wasn't the place for that, being a business vs. news piece. But it's kind of brazen, IMO.
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