IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30

[Mahouston69]

The USA Today article that quotes AW specifically relaying messages exchanged between JW and LS possibly around the last time she used her phone? LS told JW she was going to bed. We know she didn't and wasn't planning on it. I am leaning towards the idea that JW was upset and knew what she was up to. They had been dating three years. His mother said he was always taking care of her. So this behavior was not new to him and she probably had been out of control on previous occasions where he had to look out for her and keep her from getting hurt or overdoing it. For whatever reason, trouble between them, even if he was "home watching the game", I doubt habits and knowing how she gets let him just say goodnight and not go looking for her when his texts went unanswered. I don't think he stopped texting her when she didn't text back for whatever reason when she said she was "going to sleep". You know when your bf or gf is up to no good. You might not know for sure but you get really good at guessing based on previous experiences.

I also have trouble with this quote: "Alan Wolff said his son, Jesse, was texting him from his house the previous night as a Knicks basketball playoff game was under way on television. He said his son was texting, back and forth, with Spierer that night and that 'she indicated to him that she was home and going to sleep.' He texted to her that 'if you wake up, call me and we'll talk.' Then he went to bed, the father said."

IF you wake up?
Underline is mine.
Typo?
autocorrect?
sarcastic goodnight knowing what she was up to and/or her text didn't say she was going to bed but going out and would see him tomorrow?
freudian slip while texting coverup text?

I believe it is possible he left his house for whatever reason, waited at SW for her, to confront her or along the way - lost his temper, pushed, pulled or sent her over the edge and when faced with the culmination of the nights events, a dead or dying LS, he called his DAD for help who flew right away to help his son in a very serious situation. How far Dad went to help remains to be seen. I have suspected JW from the beginning, because the bf, with reason to be jealous is always the first suspect, until he is ruled out... which he has not been and with his talkative angry parents, who likely instilled passive aggressive tendencies in their son it makes me wonder even more if he should not get a closer look.

 

[akh]

From around the 4:30 mark of the first press briefing:

"…as you might imagine what we've been doing is we've been interviewing everybody that was with her Thursday afternoon, Thursday evening, Friday morning… interviewing them and re-interviewing them. They've, uh, cooperated fully with letting us search their places, search their cars, that's all been done."

Also mentioned here:
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/father-asks-for-more-help-to-find-missing-iu-student

It's things like this that keep me open-minded. When we hear the parents and others talking about a lack of cooperation we tend to think that should mean there's been an iron curtain put up and everyone has been totally stonewalled. That then allows any and all theories room to grow. But then the truth is there was at least some level of cooperation from the beginning to the point of JR even meeting with the parents. Assuming LE was being initially truthful of course.

And back to my thought that JW gets too much benefit of the doubt, was his place and vehicle also searched in those early hours? Was he also "interviewed and re-interviewed"?

If nothing was found at 5N, nothing in their vehicles, and their statements matched then at some point you have to consider the possibility that maybe they are telling the truth versus things falling thru the cracks. And perhaps if something did fall thru the cracks it happened because LE was quick to judgment initially, buying JW's story and discounting random abduction to focus on the 'obvious' suspects leaving time for clean up and moving the public's focus in the wrong direction.

 

[akh]

Also, I don't think it's that unusual the POIs lawyered up.

"…as you might imagine what we've been doing is we've been interviewing everybody that was with her Thursday afternoon, Thursday evening, Friday morning… interviewing them and re-interviewing them.

No matter how cooperative, at some point a light bulb is going to go off telling you "They think I had something to do with this" and 'interviewing and re-interviewing' could feel very ominous, very quickly, as LS wasn't found and foul play moved higher up the list.

 

[imkeylime]

No matter how cooperative, at some point a light bulb is going to go off telling you "They think I had something to do with this" and 'interviewing and re-interviewing' could feel very ominous, very quickly, as LS wasn't found and foul play moved higher up the list.

In addition, we live in a suspicious day and age. I've seen parents lawyer-up kids in my town for everything from drug violations to bullying accusations. I'm not making light of either ... bullying is a serious offense, IMO.

And really, I think the POIs did have involvement of some sort to worry about, even if it was supplying drugs/alcohol.

 

[imkeylime]

The USA Today article that quotes AW specifically relaying messages exchanged between JW and LS possibly around the last time she used her phone? LS told JW she was going to bed. We know she didn't and wasn't planning on it. I am leaning towards the idea that JW was upset and knew what she was up to. They had been dating three years. His mother said he was always taking care of her. So this behavior was not new to him and she probably had been out of control on previous occasions where he had to look out for her and keep her from getting hurt or overdoing it. For whatever reason, trouble between them, even if he was "home watching the game", I doubt habits and knowing how she gets let him just say goodnight and not go looking for her when his texts went unanswered. I don't think he stopped texting her when she didn't text back for whatever reason when she said she was "going to sleep". You know when your bf or gf is up to no good. You might not know for sure but you get really good at guessing based on previous experiences.

I also have trouble with this quote: "Alan Wolff said his son, Jesse, was texting him from his house the previous night as a Knicks basketball playoff game was under way on television. He said his son was texting, back and forth, with Spierer that night and that 'she indicated to him that she was home and going to sleep.' He texted to her that 'if you wake up, call me and we'll talk.' Then he went to bed, the father said."

IF you wake up?
Underline is mine.
Typo?
autocorrect?
sarcastic goodnight knowing what she was up to and/or her text didn't say she was going to bed but going out and would see him tomorrow?
freudian slip while texting coverup text?

I believe it is possible he left his house for whatever reason, waited at SW for her, to confront her or along the way - lost his temper, pushed, pulled or sent her over the edge and when faced with the culmination of the nights events, a dead or dying LS, he called his DAD for help who flew right away to help his son in a very serious situation. How far Dad went to help remains to be seen. I have suspected JW from the beginning, because the bf, with reason to be jealous is always the first suspect, until he is ruled out... which he has not been and with his talkative angry parents, who likely instilled passive aggressive tendencies in their son it makes me wonder even more if he should not get a closer look.

Though JW hasn't been on my radar, it doesn't hurt to give anybody a closer look. If what AW says is true, it does appear that LS could have told JW one thing but did another. Why or if it's true we can't say. Or even whether JW found out about it before he himself went to sleep (or didn't, since we're giving him a closer look).

I wish we knew more about the dynamics of their relationship, i.e., whether she was outgrowing it, whether he was controlling, etc. Shortly after LS disappeared, there was a heartbreaking murder in my area involving dating violence and another Lauren. Today, it's back in the national news as part of a program to stop it from happening again:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/25/living/bystander-education-dating-violence/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Re: the closer look: If JW really didn't trust LS, he could have had someone on the lookout, which would give him ammunition, especially after the public display at SW. OTOH, JW could feel terrible from NOT doing something that night, which might have fueled how he acted afterward.

I myself don't have a problem with the verbage "If you wake up, call me and we'll talk." People often speak in incomplete sentences ... he could have simply meant "If you wake up at a reasonable time." Saying "When you wake up ..." might have meant the next day, you know?

Regardless, the article with JW's parents is strange. Also, it strikes me as a little strange that JW and AW went to 5N and accused CR so quickly ... but by that point, JW may have heard that CR was acting inappropriately toward LS. Or maybe he was just angry that he (CR) hadn't done more to protect her from whatever. I guess that would imply that he suspected what "whatever" was, i.e., an OD, etc.

Maybe someone else can add some thoughts and go from here. I think it's good to consider all angles, obviously!

 

[ktgirl]

Was Lauren a member of AEPhi?

What fraternities did the guys involved in that night belong to?

 

[Ros]

Was Lauren a member of AEPhi?

What fraternities did the guys involved in that night belong to?

I don't recall Lauren being in a sorority. She was active with the campus Hillel organization. Her sister, RS, was in Delta Phi Epsilon at her college.

Some of the guys, including JW and JR, had been in AEPi, but that fraternity had lost its charter due to hazing in 2008. It was rechartered in 2010, but with all new members.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201107...ana-father-appeals-parents-daughter-s-friends

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=77623

 

[Btown]

Now we may finally get a few answers.

Headlines - Herald Times Online June 26th 2013

Missing IU student Lauren Spierer's parents sue three men; claim actions led to her death

Three men who were with Indiana University student Lauren Spierer the night she went missing two years ago encouraged her to drink heavily and then abandoned her, resulting in her disappearance and likely death, a federal lawsuit filed by her parents claims. ~

Robert and Charlene Spierer say Corey Rossman, Jason “Jay” Rosenbaum and Michael Beth supplied alcohol to their intoxicated and incapacitated 20-year-old daughter and failed to care for her. ~

The lawsuit seeks to find answers for the Spierers, who desperately want to know what happened to their daughter and who is responsible for her “disappearance, injury and death.” ~

Through the legal process called discovery, the defendants would be subject to answering questions, under oath, posed by the Spierers’ lawyer during the deposition phase before a trial.

 

[bx2]

Robert Spierer,Mary Spierer vs. Corey Rossman,Jason Rosenbaum,Michael Beth

Full complaint: http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wthr/PDF/spiererlawsuit.pdf

 

[bx2]

Both the article Btown included above as well as this one indicate the lawsuit alleges it was JR who made the ~4:15 calls:

That Spierer asked to return to her apartment, so Beth helped her to Rosenbaum’s residence, where he reportedly expressed concern about Spierer and tried to contact mutual friends to pick her up and take her home as Beth left.

Rosenbaum unsuccessfully contacted others to take Spierer home, and he allowed her to leave his residence on her own at 4:30 a.m., the document said.

also I think it's the first we've heard:

That about 3:30 a.m., Beth returned to the apartment he shared with Rossman after being at Rosenbaum’s apartment. He first thought burglars were inside, but found Spierer and Rossman instead.

and directly from the complaint itself: "At approximately 3:30 a.m on or about June 3, 2011, Beth, a victim of a previous crime at his residence, returned to his residence after being at Rosenbaum's residence, and became alarmed when he witnessed what he believed might be burglars at his residence"

I'm confused by the 'victim of a previous crime' part.

 

[Ashley426]

Long time lurker on Lauren's threads, just saw this on the local Fox 59 website.

http://www.wthr.com/story/22697808/...ile-lawsuit?Clienttype=generic&mobilecgbypass

 

[BCityBird]

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/st...-men--claim-actions-led-to-lauren-s-death.sto

Parents file law suit against 3 PsOI

 

[Mahouston69]

We knew it was coming..

Straightened up that timeline a bit for me too as far as who was with who and when.

 

[Dixie811]

Wow.

I hope the Spierer's find the answers that they so desperately need.

 

[mfunky]

and directly from the complaint itself: "At approximately 3:30 a.m on or about June 3, 2011, Beth, a victim of a previous crime at his residence, returned to his residence after being at Rosenbaum's residence, and became alarmed when he witnessed what he believed might be burglars at his residence"

I'm confused by the 'victim of a previous crime' part.

Wow. I'm really hoping RS & CS get the answers they so very much deserve. The boys totally brought this upon themselves.

And for victim of a previous crime- I remember reading an article about how a lot of the 5N Townhomes were robbed during Christmas Break one year. Pretty sure MB & CR's apartment got a flat screen TV stolen, amongst other things?

 

[Dixie811]

Well I guess now it makes a bit more sense why MB apparently went over to JR's with Lauren. According to what was just posted, MB had been hanging out at JR's and only just returned when he met up with CR and Lauren. I guess he knew JR would be awake, and was better acquainted with Lauren.

 

[Jacobite]

Lauren's parents have done the right thing by filing this suit. The 5N boys will now have to answer their questions in depositions.
My suspicions have now turned to her boyfriend.

 

[akh]

Lauren's parents have done the right thing by filing this suit. The 5N boys will now have to answer their questions in depositions.
My suspicions have now turned to her boyfriend.

Why is that?

 

[cluciano63]

I doubt if much truth will be revealed. But at least these men will have to deal with this case against them, and maybe it will affect their futures a bit, which would be okay with me.

 

[imkeylime]

Wow.

I hope the Spierer's find the answers that they so desperately need.

I know. They mention how they hope no one will misinterpret their actions. I know no one here will. They are wonderful parents, and I'm proud of them.