IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #31

[Mergatroid]

That's a good question ... why DID he dump her on JR? I guess the excuse is that JR knew her better, but might it possibly be 1) that JR would know who to contact in such a situation or 2) that JR knew what else contributed to her condition?

Just thinking of why did MB dump her on JR ... Maybe CR really was the one puking & MB was helping CR/cleaning up his mess & could only take care of one drunk person by himself.

If CR didn't pass out right away (like we think he did, ) he might have been a real handful for MB. In this case it would make sense for MB to enlist the help of JR to take LS off his hands.

 

[Ixchel13]

That's a good question ... why DID he dump her on JR? I guess the excuse is that JR knew her better, but might it possibly be 1) that JR would know who to contact in such a situation or 2) that JR knew what else contributed to her condition?

Just thinking of why did MB dump her on JR ... Maybe CR really was the one puking & MB was helping CR/cleaning up his mess & could only take care of one drunk person by himself.

If CR didn't pass out right away (like we think he did, ) he might have been a real handful for MB. In this case it would make sense for MB to enlist the help of JR to take LS off his hands.

well it seems like they have some sort of evidence that she made it to JRs.
They are believing MB did take her to JRs. To get him off the hook, he must have given them something to believe that.

 

[imkeylime]

well it seems like they have some sort of evidence that she made it to JRs.
They are believing MB did take her to JRs. To get him off the hook, he must have given them something to believe that.

I agree ... but if she was anywhere near OK, why wouldn't be just walk her home? In addition to the above ideas, maybe he thought he couldn't go it alone, and he knew DB was there with JR. Or maybe he just didn't want the responsibility.

 

[imkeylime]

That's a good question ... why DID he dump her on JR? I guess the excuse is that JR knew her better, but might it possibly be 1) that JR would know who to contact in such a situation or 2) that JR knew what else contributed to her condition?

Just thinking of why did MB dump her on JR ... Maybe CR really was the one puking & MB was helping CR/cleaning up his mess & could only take care of one drunk person by himself.

If CR didn't pass out right away (like we think he did, ) he might have been a real handful for MB. In this case it would make sense for MB to enlist the help of JR to take LS off his hands.

Yes, CR could have been more work than help at that point. I also wonder if the hit from ZO was kicking in. I don't buy the amnesia story, but I'm willing to buy that being slugged at SW had some consequence. I've had a minor concussion before (not saying he did) and felt really strange for awhile.

But the main point for me is that MB felt the need to take her to JR's in the first place, making me doubt JR letting her leave on her own accord a short time later.

 

[AbbeyR]

well it seems like they have some sort of evidence that she made it to JRs.
They are believing MB did take her to JRs. To get him off the hook, he must have given them something to believe that.

I don't think he's off the hook because of evidence that she made it to JR's. I think it's because there's not evidence that he provided her with alcohol, and as a wrongful death suit, the case is hinging on social host liability. As a result, neither the ethical issues or MB's evolving stories about what happened the night Lauren disappeared are really the question at this point.

Disappointed, but not surprised. I do think MB's case being dismissed on this basis suggests that the opposite may be true for JR and CR.

 

[akh]

well it seems like they have some sort of evidence that she made it to JRs.
They are believing MB did take her to JRs. To get him off the hook, he must have given them something to believe that.

AFAIK the lawsuit never really put that into question. It followed the outline of the narrative they were told to basically build the case. I don't know that it means there was any evidence that MB did take her to JR's as much as it meant there was no evidence or argument (in the filling) that he didn't. Secondarily, no evidence that he provided any alcohol to her likely weighed into the decision as well. That was always going to be a weakness in the case as it was drawn up. They needed the judge to make a leap the judge apparently wasn't willing to make.

 

[Jacobite]

Mike convinced the court that Lauren wanted to leave his apartment and that she walked out. The judge might have ruled differently if it was believed Lauren was taken to Jay's unconscious.

 

[Dixie811]

well it seems like they have some sort of evidence that she made it to JRs.
They are believing MB did take her to JRs. To get him off the hook, he must have given them something to believe that.

IMO, I don't think so.

It seemed to me that for the purpose of the civil suit, the Spierer's adhered to the collective narrative given by the 5N boys of how that night went down. I do not think the Spierer's actually believe that this story is entirely true (as most of us here do not). But rather, the Speirer's are alleging in the suit that Lauren suffered a wrongful death based on the story CR JR and MB are telling. IIRC from reading the original suit paperwork, the Spierer's never challenged the young mens' story of what happened that night, including the part where Lauren was allowed to walk into the night alone.

I think rather than challenge the boys timeline and call them liars, the suit is about alleging that Lauren should have been provided care.

JMO… :seeya:

 

[Ixchel13]

Yes, CR could have been more work than help at that point. I also wonder if the hit from ZO was kicking in. I don't buy the amnesia story, but I'm willing to buy that being slugged at SW had some consequence. I've had a minor concussion before (not saying he did) and felt really strange for awhile.

But the main point for me is that MB felt the need to take her to JR's in the first place, making me doubt JR letting her leave on her own accord a short time later.

well, CR is on tape having his clock cleaned by ZO, and I think I remember that 2 other guys kicked him when he was down as well. So, he gets a free pass for amnesia, I mean, if you're going to claim amnesia, it's helpful to be on tape getting beaten about the head.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

well it seems like they have some sort of evidence that she made it to JRs.
They are believing MB did take her to JRs. To get him off the hook, he must have given them something to believe that.

Yeah, but it might not have been all that compelling though. Just the fact JR knew about her facial injuries would tell them that she at least made it back to his place at some point. IIRC, it was a quite a while after we heard that he said her eye was black and when they released more information about her falls on video. They knew he couldn't have known about that since they hadn't released that information yet.

 

[AbbeyR]

Yeah, but it might not have been all that compelling though. Just the fact JR knew about her facial injuries would tell them that she at least made it back to his place at some point. IIRC, it was a quite a while after we heard that he said her eye was black and when they released more information about her falls on video. They knew he couldn't have known about that since they hadn't released that information yet.

I only remember hearing about this via the PI's in the LoHud article that came out a year after Lauren went missing. Was there another source?

 

[AbbeyR]

Garrison on Monday said that just because his client [Mike Beth] saw Spierer while she was drunk didn't mean he was liable in her disappearance.
"You cannot create a duty (of care) when you see some person too drunk to stand up straight," Garrison said.
"The one thing he did to be a nice guy has landed him in this courtroom."

I thought the whole basis of his defense was that he had no obligation to help Lauren. And no obligation to help the investigation or her parents.

Nice guy? By his own account, he came home to find that his roommate had dragged home a girl that was dangerously intoxicated

She told him she wanted to go home.

She lived 5 minutes away.

How much would it take to be the nice guy in that situation? Walk the girl home. If she can't walk, call her a cab. If things are worse than that, call a friend. Call 911. 3 numbers. But nah, he tucked his roommate safely into bed, then dumped her on a neighbors couch and "made her someone else's problem". Then when she went missing, he and his roommate lied to the media, painting a picture of Lauren leaving their place wanting to 'party', and complaining about how her disappearance was ruining their lives

Just once, it would be nice if the POI didn't seize any opportunity to make themselves out to be victims.

 

[Jupiter812]

Garrison's quote "...when you see some person too drunk to stand up straight," conflicts with JR's story. Didn't JR say that he more or less tested her to make sure she was in fine shape to leave his apartment on her own? Didn't he say he watched her until she reached College Ave and she walked fine? Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

[akh]

Garrison's quote "...when you see some person too drunk to stand up straight," conflicts with JR's story. Didn't JR say that he more or less tested her to make sure she was in fine shape to leave his apartment on her own? Didn't he say he watched her until she reached College Ave and she walked fine? Yeah, that's what I thought.

I really think he meant that she could walk at all without stumbling and falling in her condition, not that he was performing a sobriety test to declare her perfectly sober and in fine shape.

There may still be some conflict in the two statements, but it's not as profound as you're making it sound.

 

[monkey222]

Wasn't it reported at some point, that LS was gone from MBs when MB went to attend to CR. Like she was missing from.sofa when MB came down stairs from putting CR to bed. And she ended up at JRs. Is anyone else remembering this version?

 

[monkey222]

I just recall getting the impression that after MBs she could have gone to other apt or kitchen, whatever, before appearing at JRs. At least this is what was on mind in June 2011 when all was first reported. Sorry if I am blurring the picture.

 

[AbbeyR]

Wasn't it reported at some point, that LS was gone from MBs when MB went to attend to CR. Like she was missing from.sofa when MB came down stairs from putting CR to bed. And she ended up at JRs. Is anyone else remembering this version?

Yes, according to VS, MB & CR's neighbor, MB told her Lauren left while he was upstairs and that was the last time he saw her (Don't have time to find the link, but it's in an Indianapolis Monthly article that has been posted here a bunch of times)

According to the witness at CVS, MB said he watched Lauren walk out the door of his apartment and walk toward home.

Then HT told that story to the media, but said that JR told her the same thing.

Then we heard the story about MB bringing Lauren over to JR's.

So there are either many cases of miscommunication, or MB changed his story.

 

[monkey222]

Many thanks Abby. Thought I was spinning tales in my mind.

 

[sammi89]

That's a good question ... why DID he dump her on JR? I guess the excuse is that JR knew her better, but might it possibly be 1) that JR would know who to contact in such a situation or 2) that JR knew what else contributed to her condition?

Just thinking of why did MB dump her on JR ... Maybe CR really was the one puking & MB was helping CR/cleaning up his mess & could only take care of one drunk person by himself.

If CR didn't pass out right away (like we think he did, ) he might have been a real handful for MB. In this case it would make sense for MB to enlist the help of JR to take LS off his hands.

I don't know, I still think it is odd. MB knew JR had a party that night and probably knew that JR had out of town visitors. Why dump a girl in LS' state on a guy who might still have other people over he's dealing with and definitely has guests over? And by LS' state, I mean the one the 5N boys describe: a girl who was very intoxicated. Dumping her on a friend after he's just had a party and has people over seems like it would be a really uncool thing to do just because you don't want to deal with her. I think JR would be even less thrilled considering it was MB's roomie who brought her back.

Also, I know CR and LS had recently met each other, but is it possible that CR was actually the one she felt the most comfortable around anyway? It might have been a bad judgment call, but it sounds like JR and LS were friends of friends (HT being the mutual friend), whereas there was something between LS & CR, she was with CR the entire night, and who knows, maybe she really was going to go to bed until she found out CR would be at JR's. Did JR actually know her better? Why is MB taking a girl CR has expressed interest in to JR's instead of just letting her stay at their place?

It's too bad MB's case got thrown out because I think the answer to the why he took her to JR's could be key if they were involved.

 

[sammi89]

well, CR is on tape having his clock cleaned by ZO, and I think I remember that 2 other guys kicked him when he was down as well. So, he gets a free pass for amnesia, I mean, if you're going to claim amnesia, it's helpful to be on tape getting beaten about the head.

But then he goes and says things like this:

Rossman also seemed to distance himself from his lawyer Carl Salzmann's statement that he had no memory of his final moments with Spierer.


"I never said that," Rossman said. "You're taking statements that were said by my lawyer. I never said I did or didn't."

Source: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...g-indiana-student-parents-harassment/2356267/

What?! lol.

IMO, I really don't think a lawyer is normally going to put outright lies into the public. I would think he would only say that if there was a reason for it, i.e., CR explicitly said he blacked out or implied as much. Not only that, but amnesia?! That is just such a terrible cover story and I would think that most lawyers would recognize that. Just my opinion!

I'm also not sure if the lawyer would be able to say anything to defend himself on that front because of the duty of confidentiality but I'm not sure on that one. Just speculating.