IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #31

[Ixchel13]

This reminds me of one of the things about this case that is making my head want to explode.

Many of the reports that I have read stated that Jesse Wolff was going to watch the game at his place and Lauren was going to watch the game at Smallwood. The reports said that they were going to hook up after the game.

So, I started thinking "What teams were playing? What time did the game end?"

This article says: "Alan Wolff said his son, Jesse, was texting him from his house the previous night as a Knicks basketball playoff game was under way on television. He said his son was texting, back and forth, with Spierer that night and that "she indicated to him that she was home and going to sleep." He texted to her that "if you wake up, call me and we'll talk." Then he went to bed, the father said."

Okay,... so I tried to confirm the claim and I tried to see what time the game ended and I found this instead.

According to "BasketballReference.com" - the NICKS did not play on June 2nd, 2011. Dallas and Miami did.

So, what time did the Dallas and Miami game end?

According to the Nielsen's Ratings; "The three-hour telecast from 8 p.m.-11 p.m. ET, including more than 30 minutes of postgame coverage, averaged a 9.5 rating on ABC."

So, assuming Jesse Wolff was watching that game (because the NICKS were not playing)... He should have heard from or should have called Lauren by 11:00 pm.

11:30 pm at the latest.

So what gives?

The timelines and other reports say that the last time Lauren's phone was used that night - was at 12:16 am.

The game was long since over - by then.

So, we are to believe that Jesse Actually watched the Miami and Dallas game and then took Lauren's word for it - that she was going to bed.

Fine.

Does anyone actually believe that JW actually went to bed - himself? After the game? That no one called or texted him about Lauren's where abouts and activities following the game? That his 'friend' ZO punched CR in the face at Smallwood?

No calls from ANY of his 'friends?'

Not even from Hadar?

With 'friends' like that - who needs enemies?

chuz, don't forget--they (all of Jesse's friends) all went to bed! yeah, right

 

[Jupiter812]

I wouldn't get too excited about what one article says Alan Wolff said his son was doing the night of Lauren's disappearance! Obviously either he is wrong or Shawn Colvin got it wrong. Not everything is a conspiracy or cover up.

 

[Chuz Life]

I wouldn't get too excited about what one article says Alan Wolff said his son was doing the night of Lauren's disappearance! Obviously either he is wrong or Shawn Colvin got it wrong. Not everything is a conspiracy or cover up.

I agree.

However, that wasn't the direction I was intending to lead into, Jupiter.

It's more than just a little aggravating that the police, supposed reporters and journalists didn't take the time to confirm or to disprove some of these things.

There doesn't seem to be any kind of 'follow up' questioning taking place and that - along with little or no effort being used to confirm the comments the involved parties did make...

It's just disappointing and aggravating.

There's no wonder why this case has dragged on for so long.

Where has any pressure been applied to anyone in the know - for them to expound on any of their statements made that night?

 

[Ixchel13]

I wouldn't get too excited about what one article says Alan Wolff said his son was doing the night of Lauren's disappearance! Obviously either he is wrong or Shawn Colvin got it wrong. Not everything is a conspiracy or cover up.

not everything is, but in this case, there are several different possible conspiracies and cover ups!

1. 5N POIs in reference to Lauren
2. 5N guys, drug dealing
3. Jesse and the Aepis, dealing; possibly in reference to Lauren
4. Zach Oakes, in reference to altercation, possible confidential informant after being busted for dealing drugs
5. Zoe and the 10th and College Girls
6. And yes, Hadar Tamir, drugs, and possibly has a deal of silence for whatever reason with both Jesse and JW
7. Don't forget Kilroys, covering up how much they served Lauren by besmirching her, possibly someone there knows if someone else rufied Lauren;
drug dealing, and finally, her phone. I just don't think she left her phone there, but if she did, someone IMO picked it up and gave it to someone else, who then threw it over the fence.
8. Is there a conspiracy by SW management to cover up the altercation?
9. Is the management from 10th and College holding back video?

This case is nothing but cover ups and conspiracies, some of them, most of them, not even directly responsible for Lauren's disappearance, but when added together, caused it.

 

[Chuz Life]

not everything is, but in this case, there are several different possible conspiracies and cover ups!

1. 5N POIs in reference to Lauren
2. 5N guys, drug dealing
3. Jesse and the Aepis, dealing; possibly in reference to Lauren
4. Zach Oakes, in reference to altercation, possible confidential informant after being busted for dealing drugs
5. Zoe and the 10th and College Girls
6. And yes, Hadar Tamir, drugs, and possibly has a deal of silence for whatever reason with both Jesse and JW
7. Don't forget Kilroys, covering up how much they served Lauren by besmirching her, possibly someone there knows if someone else rufied Lauren;
drug dealing, and finally, her phone. I just don't think she left her phone there, but if she did, someone IMO picked it up and gave it to someone else, who then threw it over the fence.
8. Is there a conspiracy by SW management to cover up the altercation?
9. Is the management from 10th and College holding back video?

This case is nothing but cover ups and conspiracies, some of them, most of them, not even directly responsible for Lauren's disappearance, but when added together, caused it.

Imagine the results if they all were to spend half as much energy finding Lauren and returning her to her family as they do trying to cover their own hind quarters.

 

[monkey222]

For those sleuthers following McStays family case..bodies identified. On news now.

 

[Kadence]

Lots of heartbreaking news on WS today, although heartbreaking, it does lend closure, the key word being lend, as closure is never really what happens, it is only a temporary relief, the loss continues

The Knicks game info is weird, it has been brought up before, maybe his Dad isn't a b-ball fan and misspoke? Knicks, Mavs, Heat - did he get confused? Is there evidence of a call/text of JW and his Dad talking about what game he was watching. If the Finals were on, I sure wouldn't be watching old-school games, there's time for that in the off-season. Can we check to see if any station was re-running a classic game after the Mavs/Heat game ended?

Continued love and prayers for the Spierer family.

https://www.facebook.com/Lauren.Spierer.Family.Updates
https://twitter.com/NewsOnLaurenS
https://twitter.com/CharleneSpierer

 

[Chuz Life]

<snip> The Knicks game info is weird, it has been brought up before, <snip>

Thanks Kadence.

I wasn't aware that anyone else had also questioned JW's dad's recollection and statements about that.

 

[Ixchel13]

Thanks Kadence.

I wasn't aware that anyone else had also questioned JW's dad's recollection and statements about that.

yes that has been brought up a few times. While we're on JW and conspiracies...let's talk about PT.

Phantasy Tour is a jam band website/message board. Phish is the headlining jam band on this site.

JW's sister's boyfriend is a good friend of the band.

That was the ONLY link to Lauren on that site.

Now, as many people here know, it got really raunchy, and for thousands of posts. Granted, the site itself is disgusting, a bunch of druggies insulting each other, but the level of vitriol and abuse leveled at Lauren was mind-blowing appalling. The moderators of the site were appealed to, but refused to erase a single post.

JW's brother, and his roommate both posted on the site. In these postings, it was all poor Jesse, Jesse was home in bed, Jesse is innocent. But not one consoling word for Lauren, not "Poor Lauren, Jesse loved her, she will be missed," NADA.

Interesting in these evil posts about Lauren was the hundredfold reoccurring
message that "the wh**** got what she deserved." Please forgive me for writing that.

Phish originated in Westchester where Lauren and Jesse lived. This was a grass roots slander of Lauren and it came from where Jesse is from, and from
people he knew. Jesse's parents then a year later come out with a cleaned up
version of these slanders.

IMO, Jesse's family and friends were behind this slander. When the brother came on the message board, if he had said, "Please respect Lauren because my brother loved her," or something like that, maybe the administrators would have at least closed the threads. But no, it seemed worse knowing he had read all the vulgar, hideously unfeeling remarks about Lauren, all untrue BTW, and
yet only mentioned Jesse, poor Jesse.

Something very Phishy about hundreds of posts slandering Lauren on a Jesse
friendly message board.

Ironically, I found this website because the airheads on PT were making fun of it! Also Chuz, if you have the stomach to wade through these posts, I think a few people here have saved those PT threads. LE really should analyze those threads.

 

[imkeylime]

Lots of heartbreaking news on WS today, although heartbreaking, it does lend closure, the key word being lend, as closure is never really what happens, it is only a temporary relief, the loss continues

The Knicks game info is weird, it has been brought up before, maybe his Dad isn't a b-ball fan and misspoke? Knicks, Mavs, Heat - did he get confused? Is there evidence of a call/text of JW and his Dad talking about what game he was watching. If the Finals were on, I sure wouldn't be watching old-school games, there's time for that in the off-season. Can we check to see if any station was re-running a classic game after the Mavs/Heat game ended?

Continued love and prayers for the Spierer family.

https://www.facebook.com/Lauren.Spierer.Family.Updates
https://twitter.com/NewsOnLaurenS
https://twitter.com/CharleneSpierer

While the Knicks reference gives me pause, could it just be that the Knicks are a New York team and he's a New Yorker and thus made a nervous slip?

 

[AbbeyR]

@Ixchel... Not sure where you got that info about JW's "sister"...

There were lots of people on PT connected to all of the POI, through camp, friends etc., and some of the POI at 5N may have been posters there. The moderators erased many, many posts. Just the ones about the POI, not the ones about Lauren.

As a side note, anyone remember the most vile of all posters, "j---682", who relentlessly made horrible and demeaning comments about Lauren? Guess where he happens to be from? Just outside of detroit.

Just sayin.

 

[Ixchel13]

@Ixchel... Not sure where you got that info about JW's "sister"...

There were lots of people on PT connected to all of the POI, through camp, friends etc., and some of the POI at 5N may have been posters there. The moderators erased many, many posts. Just the ones about the POI, not the ones about Lauren.

As a side note, anyone remember the most vile of all posters, "j682", who relentlessly made horrible and demeaning comments about Lauren? Guess where he happens to be from? Just outside of detroit.

Just sayin.

Abbey, the fact remains, the posts that were slandering Lauren were never erased, only some of the posts defending Lauren were., and that's what I meant by not erasing a single post. What difference does it make where j was from? Unless, you are implying that it was JR instead of JW fuelling the slander?
As a side note,I was talking about where Phish is from, and that it's the same area as Jesse and Lauren. Yet time and time again, certain posters, and I'm not talking j, kept telling the pro-Lauren posters to get off the board, BECAUSE there was no connection to Lauren on PT, yet here you are saying there were many connections.

Instead, why don't you address the real gist of my post about PT?--it was an organized slander conduit that was sending the vile message that Lauren deserved what she received. If I am wrong about how many connections the board had to Lauren and Jesse--then it just makes my opinion more plausible--why weren't any of these people, and I don't remember any
camp friends by the way--why weren't these connections to Lauren defending
her? And why, every single time someone defended Lauren, did posters come right on and vilify her defenders? I had posts erased, was unable to sign on, and ridiculed in many vulgar ways, told to kill myself, eff myself, yet the evil posters like j were bolstered like the other idiots who were dissing Lauren.
Really, I was in total disbelief that anyone could be so heartless, cruel and
downright horrifically vulgar about a tiny, sweet, missing woman without worrying that they would go straight to hell for it.

Let me get this straight, Abbey--are you saying you don't think those threads about Lauren on PT were an organized slander campaign against Lauren? Just wonderin

p.s., about the sister thing, just repeating what I was told by someone, is that ok or do I need absolute documentation? Of course, if it's not true, then the Wolfe family can deny it. Also, you didn't address the fact that the Wolfe family repeated a slightly cleaned up version of the recurring slanders of Lauren on PT. I found that extremely disturbing. Not about you, but that the Wolfe's repeated the slanders.


Question--did Hadar also attend camp with Lauren and Jesse?

 

[Ixchel13]

yes that has been brought up a few times. While we're on JW and conspiracies...let's talk about PT.

Phantasy Tour is a jam band website/message board. Phish is the headlining jam band on this site.

JW's sister's boyfriend is a good friend of the band.

That was the ONLY link to Lauren on that site.

Now, as many people here know, it got really raunchy, and for thousands of posts. Granted, the site itself is disgusting, a bunch of druggies insulting each other, but the level of vitriol and abuse leveled at Lauren was mind-blowing appalling. The moderators of the site were appealed to, but refused to erase a single post.

JW's brother, and his roommate both posted on the site. In these postings, it was all poor Jesse, Jesse was home in bed, Jesse is innocent. But not one consoling word for Lauren, not "Poor Lauren, Jesse loved her, she will be missed," NADA.

Interesting in these evil posts about Lauren was the hundredfold reoccurring
message that "the wh**** got what she deserved." Please forgive me for writing that.

Phish originated in Westchester where Lauren and Jesse lived. This was a grass roots slander of Lauren and it came from where Jesse is from, and from
people he knew. Jesse's parents then a year later come out with a cleaned up
version of these slanders.

IMO, Jesse's family and friends were behind this slander. When the brother came on the message board, if he had said, "Please respect Lauren because my brother loved her," or something like that, maybe the administrators would have at least closed the threads. But no, it seemed worse knowing he had read all the vulgar, hideously unfeeling remarks about Lauren, all untrue BTW, and
yet only mentioned Jesse, poor Jesse.

Something very Phishy about hundreds of posts slandering Lauren on a Jesse
friendly message board.

Ironically, I found this website because the airheads on PT were making fun of it! Also Chuz, if you have the stomach to wade through these posts, I think a few people here have saved those PT threads. LE really should analyze those threads.

quoting myself to apologize to everyone, should have stated, "A good source told me, " or, "someone said Jesse's sister's boyfriend knows the guys in Phish."
I didn't do any checking of JW's family. Sorry. Also, knowing that j is from right by Detroit is good sleuthing, Abbey, because it places him near JR.

 

[imkeylime]

@Ixchel... Not sure where you got that info about JW's "sister"...

There were lots of people on PT connected to all of the POI, through camp, friends etc., and some of the POI at 5N may have been posters there. The moderators erased many, many posts. Just the ones about the POI, not the ones about Lauren.

As a side note, anyone remember the most vile of all posters, "j---682", who relentlessly made horrible and demeaning comments about Lauren? Guess where he happens to be from? Just outside of detroit.

Just sayin.

I'm curious ... and don't know much about the board in question and nothing about that poster. Was a city listed for him or did it just say outside of Detroit? There's a huge difference between where JR's from and Detroit and its immediate surroundings, such as Highland Park. I have doubt that someone in JR's circle would even go to Detroit for drugs, although he might use a courier.

But I guess outside of Detroit could imply the suburbs, although I don't know many people who live in the suburbs (where I grew up and still often visit) who use that designation. It's sad to put it that way, and it's not a racial thing at all, just a reflection on how dangerous parts of the city and its close surroundings can be.

 

[Ixchel13]

I'm curious ... and don't know much about the board in question and nothing about that poster. Was a city listed for him or did it just say outside of Detroit? There's a huge difference between where JR's from and Detroit and it's immediate surroundings, such as Highland Park. I have doubt that someone in JR's circle would even go to Detroit for drugs, although he might use a courier.

But I guess outside of Detroit could imply the suburbs, although I don't know many people who live in the suburbs (where I grew up and still often visit) who use that designation. It's sad to put it that way, and it's not a racial thing at all, just a reflection on how dangerous parts of the city and its close surroundings can be.

there was a general feeling (PMs were flying back and forth) that the perps, or
people defending the perps, were posting. The mocking tone towards Lauren, and people defending Lauren, was eerie, sociopathic. As if whomever did this to Lauren was untouchable, and that she would never be found. This, even more than the vile insults, chilled me to the core. The insults to Lauren were specific
and could definitely be profiled by someone who knew what to look for. The mods seemed to protect the POIs, but anything anyone could think of to insult Lauren could be posted and the sky was definitely the limit with these trolls.

And the more Lauren was defended, Lauren, the more they hurled at her, deepening their evil propaganda all the while. The main question I had was, having seen the mods erase posts for much, much less reason, is why these mods didn't put a stop to it? What they would do is lock a thread, but wouldn't stop anyone from opening another, hence thousands of posts! not exaggerating.

May I add, the band Phish has nothing to do with this, it is their followers who were posting this slander against Lauren,--all in all a distasteful bunch. sorry, never liked the band, mediocre, off tune, rambling rip offs and junkies and their followers wouldn't know good music if it interrupted their Molly trips and smacked them upside their ears. Sorry, JMO.

 

[AbbeyR]

I'm curious ... and don't know much about the board in question and nothing about that poster. Was a city listed for him or did it just say outside of Detroit? There's a huge difference between where JR's from and Detroit and it's immediate surroundings, such as Highland Park. I have doubt that someone in JR's circle would even go to Detroit for drugs, although he might use a courier.

But I guess outside of Detroit could imply the suburbs, although I don't know many people who live in the suburbs (where I grew up and still often visit) who use that designation. It's sad to put it that way, and it's not a racial thing at all, just a reflection on how dangerous parts of the city and its close surroundings can be.

No, neither. The words are from me. I believe he lived ~ 30 min outside of Detroit.

@Ixchel, I agree with you about how disgusting the posters were at PT, I just think there are some concrete connections to the POI at 5 N, and that this influenced the tone of those conversations. I also believe some of what you are putting together about Phish and the connections to Jesse is not accurate. I think you make a good point though that despite there being a lot of connections to Lauren and the POI on that board, there was a surprising callousness, and protection of the POI. JMO

 

[imkeylime]

No, neither. The words are from me. I believe he lived ~ 30 min outside of Detroit.

@Ixchel, I agree with you about how disgusting the posters were at PT, I just think there are some concrete connections to the POI at 5 N, and that this influenced the tone of those conversations. I also believe some of what you are putting together about Phish and the connections to Jesse is not accurate. I think you make a good point though that despite there being a lot of connections to Lauren and the POI on that board, there was a surprising callousness, and protection of the POI. JMO

So 30 minutes outside of Detroit could tie him to JR ... 30 minutes could definitely be Oakland County, which is JR territory. Thanks, that's exactly what I was trying to determine.

I wish I'd spent some time checking out that board. It sounds pretty creepy, and it would be interesting and maybe useful to know why.

 

[imkeylime]

there was a general feeling (PMs were flying back and forth) that the perps, or
people defending the perps, were posting. The mocking tone towards Lauren, and people defending Lauren, was eerie, sociopathic. As if whomever did this to Lauren was untouchable, and that she would never be found. This, even more than the vile insults, chilled me to the core. The insults to Lauren were specific
and could definitely be profiled by someone who knew what to look for. The mods seemed to protect the POIs, but anything anyone could think of to insult Lauren could be posted and the sky was definitely the limit with these trolls.

And the more Lauren was defended, Lauren, the more they hurled at her, deepening their evil propaganda all the while. The main question I had was, having seen the mods erase posts for much, much less reason, is why these mods didn't put a stop to it? What they would do is lock a thread, but wouldn't stop anyone from opening another, hence thousands of posts! not exaggerating.

May I add, the band Phish has nothing to do with this, it is their followers who were posting this slander against Lauren,--all in all a distasteful bunch. sorry, never liked the band, mediocre, off tune, rambling rip offs and junkies and their followers wouldn't know good music if it interrupted their Molly trips and smacked them upside their ears. Sorry, JMO.

Thanks for the info, Ixchel. It definitely sounds strange that there were such vicious attacks on Lauren there. Very odd but perhaps related to the type of people who follow the band? I don't know the band, or its songs/lyrics, but I do know there's a lot of anger against women in some music nowadays. It's really unsettling, IMO. Or maybe it's something more? Sometimes I wish I WAS a profiler, LOL ...

 

[Ixchel13]

So 30 minutes outside of Detroit could tie him to JR ... 30 minutes could definitely be Oakland County, which is JR territory. Thanks, that's exactly what I was trying to determine.

I wish I'd spent some time checking out that board. It sounds pretty creepy, and it would be interesting and maybe useful to know why.

It could also tie him to DB, if JR were protecting someone, it would be him, IMO.
hypothetically, if JR were protecting someone, and maybe even didn't know the exact details, but knew this person either left with Lauren or went after Lauren after she left, what would his crime be? Obstructing justice? It kinda sounds like
it when his final words are, the last time he saw her she was rounding, nearing, the corner. Just sticking to that, even if he knows, or thinks he knows, someone staying with him left; or even that someone staying at his apt. was up at the time she left, maybe that someone was already pestering Lauren.

Sometimes the wrong kind of man believes that if a woman is interested in someone other than her boyfriend, then she should also be interested in him.
After all, he's a player with lots of money, and if the woman isn't interested, then
she must be all those mean things and deserves what she got, because he's a privileged sociopath that girls from where he hails from don't say no to. Except the woman who was rufied and raped at a party in one of his dad's buildings up
in Michigan, with a friend of his as the main suspect. Wow, just like JR being a main suspect, another friend of his whose party he attended and this time, the woman didn't survive.

 

[akh]

Thanks for the info, Ixchel. It definitely sounds strange that there were such vicious attacks on Lauren there. Very odd but perhaps related to the type of people who follow the band? I don't know the band, or its songs/lyrics, but I do know there's a lot of anger against women in some music nowadays. It's really unsettling, IMO. Or maybe it's something more? Sometimes I wish I WAS a profiler, LOL ...

I don't know anything about the PT forum but Phish are a jam band. Think Grateful Dead. Followers of that type of music are generally very mellow... IOW lots of pot smoking, acid, hippy lifestyles are all part of the culture and experience. It's about 180 deg from rap and hip hop as far as the culture goes.

If the PT forums are about Phish and Phish type bands then I find it odd there would be much collective anger about a person they never met there. Maybe some rage against the ruling elite, but not just average college students from their own type circles.

But like I said, I know nothing about the PT forums... I do know something about Phish and their following though.

And now I leave you with a quick joke to make a point about that...
What did one pot smoker say to the other pot smoker when the dope ran out?




Man, this band kinda sucks!

:rimshot: