IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #31

[Ixchel13]

Thanks for the info, Ixchel. It definitely sounds strange that there were such vicious attacks on Lauren there. Very odd but perhaps related to the type of people who follow the band? I don't know the band, or its songs/lyrics, but I do know there's a lot of anger against women in some music nowadays. It's really unsettling, IMO. Or maybe it's something more? Sometimes I wish I WAS a profiler, LOL ...

the band itself is not mean in any way, but has attracted a lot of seriously messed up people as followers, AWA other mellow, just getting high people.
Lots of bad drugs, fake drugs, strong drugs, stories on PT that recall the famous Woodstock "hey people, don't eat the brown acid."

There were threads, just a few, about missing people from the concerts. Lauren was not the first missing person to be discussed, just the one that was viciously slandered.

 

[imkeylime]

I don't know anything about the PT forum but Phish are a jam band. Think Grateful Dead. Followers of that type of music are generally very mellow... IOW lots of pot smoking, acid, hippy lifestyles are all part of the culture and experience. It's about 180 deg from rap and hip hop as far as the culture goes.

If the PT forums are about Phish and Phish type bands then I find it odd there would be much collective anger about a person they never met there. Maybe some rage against the ruling elite, but not just average college students from their own type circles.

But like I said, I know nothing about the PT forums... I do know something about Phish and their following though.

And now I leave you with a quick joke to make a point about that...
What did one pot smoker say to the other pot smoker when the dope ran out?




Man, this band kinda sucks!

:rimshot:

Thanks for the info on the band and potential followers, akh. Yeah, I was thinking more of the mysogynistic rap bands out there. My son has listened to some of them, and can I just say that I really don't get the appeal (and am rather offended, TBH). And I actually pride myself on being pretty open-minded ...

But back to LS ... if it's not a normal collective response, perhaps there's indeed a more specific reason for the harsh words and attacks.

 

[monkey222]

I just looked at some early posts on that PT forum re LS. It is truly disgusting. Makes me sick. Who are the mods. Do they have no scruples? Gee whiz. And those bad bad posters should be investigated by LE. Disturbing.

 

[sammi89]

I'm curious ... and don't know much about the board in question and nothing about that poster. Was a city listed for him or did it just say outside of Detroit? There's a huge difference between where JR's from and Detroit and its immediate surroundings, such as Highland Park. I have doubt that someone in JR's circle would even go to Detroit for drugs, although he might use a courier.

But I guess outside of Detroit could imply the suburbs, although I don't know many people who live in the suburbs (where I grew up and still often visit) who use that designation. It's sad to put it that way, and it's not a racial thing at all, just a reflection on how dangerous parts of the city and its close surroundings can be.

I'm originally from Michigan (it sounds look you might be too?) and most of my recent college graduate friends (less than five years) and those still in college will often say they are from the D, even if they are technically from nicer areas such as Grosse Pointe, West Bloomfield, etc. For whatever reason, Detroit has a "cool" factor to it now. In gist, when I see people posting or saying they are from Detroit, I try to keep in mind that really, they might be near/around the DET area.

I do 100% disagree that anyone from his circle would not enter Detroit. Most everyone I know has been to Detroit for some reason, whether it is for sports or Greek town or the like, and I lived about 90 minutes away from DET. People I knew from Grosse Pointe or West Bloomfield would go there often when they were home because it was even closer for them. Detroit has had issues for awhile so they know which areas to avoid, but I would be absolutely shocked if they did not venture into Detroit at all period. Sorry, I just feel strongly that Detroit is not as bad as people often imply as long as you are smart and aware and avoid the bad areas.

 

[bessie]

I hope everyone is staying safe in the Midwest. Those storms look dreadful on the weather map. raying:

 

[imkeylime]

I'm originally from Michigan (it sounds look you might be too?) and most of my recent college graduate friends (less than five years) and those still in college will often say they are from the D, even if they are technically from nicer areas such as Grosse Pointe, West Bloomfield, etc. For whatever reason, Detroit has a "cool" factor to it now. In gist, when I see people posting or saying they are from Detroit, I try to keep in mind that really, they might be near/around the DET area.

I do 100% disagree that anyone from his circle would not enter Detroit. Most everyone I know has been to Detroit for some reason, whether it is for sports or Greek town or the like, and I lived about 90 minutes away from DET. People I knew from Grosse Pointe or West Bloomfield would go there often when they were home because it was even closer for them. Detroit has had issues for awhile so they know which areas to avoid, but I would be absolutely shocked if they did not venture into Detroit at all period. Sorry, I just feel strongly that Detroit is not as bad as people often imply as long as you are smart and aware and avoid the bad areas.

Glad to hear differing info about the city, Sammi. I really don't have many friends who go downtown anymore except for sporting events ... but I'm definitely older than your friends and basing my comments on personal experience. I guess I'm thinking about more than "venturing into," though ... do you think someone like JR or DB might have drug connections and/or friends there if he knew enough about the good vs. bad areas?

PS: I did grow up in northern Oakland County and lived there until the late '90s but now only return for major vacations (summer and holidays). But we're toying with the idea of moving back if my hubby can find a job.

 

[Wondering Aloud]

JW's sister's boyfriend is a good friend of the band.

I don't think JW has a sister. (?) He has a brother.
CR has a sister.
DB has a sister.
Not sure about the others.

 

[Jacobite]

@Ixchel... Not sure where you got that info about JW's "sister"...

There were lots of people on PT connected to all of the POI, through camp, friends etc., and some of the POI at 5N may have been posters there. The moderators erased many, many posts. Just the ones about the POI, not the ones about Lauren.

As a side note, anyone remember the most vile of all posters, "j---682", who relentlessly made horrible and demeaning comments about Lauren? Guess where he happens to be from? Just outside of detroit.

Just sayin.

And if Ortiz has no connection, he must be one sick dog to write such things about someone he did not even know. On the other hand, he should be checked out. It's common for the bad guy to hate on his victim.
The guy claims to be studying law and about 28 years old. Can we connect him to any poi or their families?

 

[Ixchel13]

I don't think JW has a sister. (?) He has a brother.
CR has a sister.
DB has a sister.
Not sure about the others.

JW has some sort of connection to the band Phish, through a sibling's SO
I apologized already for hearsay and admitted I didn't check before typing. But!
I will get back to everyone when I get time to get ahold of the person who told me and get it straight. I'm not going to say at this time that I am totally wrong,
but if I am wrong about him having a connection, I'll be right on here. Doubtful I'm wrong though, just got something mixed up and I'm sorry.

 

[Jacobite]

I understand that music is one of the things Lauren and Jesse did not agree on. Jesse liked jam bands which are rooted in progressive jazz. Lauren loved pretty melodies and harmonies.

I do know something about the jam bands, the Grateful Dead, Umphrey's McGee, phish, Moe, and Widespread Panic. I was someone these bands wanted to know and I have met them.
I don't associate jam bands with hard drugs. Their fans are mostly a bunch of potheads and second generation hippies.

 

[doubtingthomas]

Does anyone know if DB knew LS? Was DB in Indy the week before with the group? Anyone know how long he had been at JR's or did he just show up that night?

 

[Jacobite]

Does anyone know if DB knew LS? Was DB in Indy the week before with the group? Anyone know how long he had been at JR's or did he just show up that night?

I've heard that DB also went to the camp in Pennsylvania. So, I'd say very likely he knew her.

 

[Jacobite]

So, now I must wonder why it is only known now that Jay's party was for the honour of DB? Why had we not heard of DB earlier? Did the police really mess up this case? Or, were they keeping his name quiet?
Or, would everyone have missed him if not for Justin?

 

[monkey222]

Who is Justin?

 

[monkey222]

I recall reading somewhere on WS that the party was for out of town friend and it was DB..maybe a year ago?? And I thought that this out of town friend may have stayed not at JRs that night. Does this sound right, anyone? Could the second ph call from JRs phone have been to DB.....????

 

[monkey222]

If it was made to DB, well then, you got the fox guarding the henhouse. LS could have stumbled back. ...on way home..right into trap...maybe. ...encountered. ..?? I don't know.

 

[sammi89]

Glad to hear differing info about the city, Sammi. I really don't have many friends who go downtown anymore except for sporting events ... but I'm definitely older than your friends and basing my comments on personal experience. I guess I'm thinking about more than "venturing into," though ... do you think someone like JR or DB might have drug connections and/or friends there if he knew enough about the good vs. bad areas?

PS: I did grow up in northern Oakland County and lived there until the late '90s but now only return for major vacations (summer and holidays). But we're toying with the idea of moving back if my hubby can find a job.

I actually don't think it really matters if they would or not - I think most of their connections would be other college students and I would think that at least a couple would be from Detroit Detroit (the city). I think this is even more likely given that JR is originally from MI and had guests over who were attending UM in AA. Both schools are relatively close enough to Detroit that you would think that they had at least a few classmates from the city that they had befriended.

However, I just think that when you have people on the Internet posting where they are from, some are going to say (on that online profile) that they are from Detroit because people outside of MI know Detroit and of the "cool" factor. A lot of people think it makes them sound like a BA and you can even find shirts and stuff saying, "B****, I'm from Detroit" lol. It's silly, but people who are technically in the suburbs will say it just to say it.


However, just to answer your question, I think if they were into a certain kind of drug, they knew someone who had it, that person was in Detroit, and it was convenient for them (not out of the way, no one was closer that had what they were looking for, a good price, etc.), they would probably do it. It's interesting that the UM guests are 45 minutes away Detroit and were visiting so who knows. Do I think they would need to go to Detroit? Probably not. They were college kids. I'm sure there was enough available on campus or the surrounding area.


Lucky for you that you haven't moved back before now! That storm really was bad. I have friends that might be without power until Saturday! Good luck! Michigan is truly a beautiful state!

 

[sammi89]

I recall reading somewhere on WS that the party was for out of town friend and it was DB..maybe a year ago?? And I thought that this out of town friend may have stayed not at JRs that night. Does this sound right, anyone? Could the second ph call from JRs phone have been to DB.....????

According to: http://www.theoaklandpress.com/gene...sman-focus-of-missing-indiana-student-mystery

In his statement to police, Rosenbaum said he talked with Spierer for a little bit while Bleznak was sleeping in the other room, let her use his cell phone to try and track down her lost one and then watched her leave.

However, the next part of that sentence gives me pause because I thought the phone calls were to find LS a ride, so I'm not sure if the article is totally accurate. It is, however, relatively recent (8/13) if that makes any difference.

IF JR did claim DB was sleeping in the other room:
A) is it normal for people to lend out their roomie's bedroom? My college roomies and I would let them stay in the living room, not each other's bedroom. However, DB sleeping in another room immediately removes him from the last bit of events for the night - convenient? Yes. Coincidence? Maybe.
B) If DB is sleeping, I assume the party is over. It sounds like the night was a little out of hand, so why did JR wake up? Or was he still awake? If he was still awake, is it really that likely that he was the only one amongst his group of friends still awake?
C) I would LOVE to know what the situation was like when MB actually brought LS over. Was everyone calm and quiet? Or making a commotion? If they were making a commotion, how likely is it that DB & whoever else was there slept through the entire event?


Also, I still think the phone calls are weird. Texting is the go-to. If he's calling, it sounds like he is hoping that these people might answer. Why wouldn't you leave a voicemail or follow up with a text?

JR is already letting people stay in his roommate's room. Why wasn't there a place for LS if they were trying to find her rides that late? And why not call a CAB? Seriously. If you're going to call the friends, call a cab. These people weren't going to be hurt over the few bucks it would have cost.

If they were looking for the phone, wouldn't CR be the first person to ask since he was with her for most of the night and presumably with her when she lost it? Did the story change from finding the phone to finding a ride?

 

[sammi89]

As an aside, what makes any motivation JW would have different than motivation CR would have? CR made it clear he was romantically interested (well, at least physically). I'm fairly certain jealousy and anger would possibly resonate with him too given that LS and JW, even if they were on the rocks, were still an item and CR may have felt she was leading on him yet choosing JW. CR also has the benefit of actually knowing where LS is at all times that night; JW's knowledge of LS' whereabouts is pure speculation at this point.

Also, can we be absolutely certain CR actually went to bed? It is odd that DB and CR are tucked in bed during the critical moments and then we have MB who dutifully removes LS from CR and takes her to JR.

 

[Ros]

there was a general feeling (PMs were flying back and forth) that the perps, or
people defending the perps, were posting. The mocking tone towards Lauren, and people defending Lauren, was eerie, sociopathic. As if whomever did this to Lauren was untouchable, and that she would never be found. This, even more than the vile insults, chilled me to the core. The insults to Lauren were specific
and could definitely be profiled by someone who knew what to look for. The mods seemed to protect the POIs, but anything anyone could think of to insult Lauren could be posted and the sky was definitely the limit with these trolls.

And the more Lauren was defended, Lauren, the more they hurled at her, deepening their evil propaganda all the while. The main question I had was, having seen the mods erase posts for much, much less reason, is why these mods didn't put a stop to it? What they would do is lock a thread, but wouldn't stop anyone from opening another, hence thousands of posts! not exaggerating.

May I add, the band Phish has nothing to do with this, it is their followers who were posting this slander against Lauren,--all in all a distasteful bunch. sorry, never liked the band, mediocre, off tune, rambling rip offs and junkies and their followers wouldn't know good music if it interrupted their Molly trips and smacked them upside their ears. Sorry, JMO.

The mods on

PT appeared to be deleting threads that were reported as being inappropriate. Threads that mentioned personal info about other posters were deleted.