IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #33

[Ixchel13]

Thanks Mahouston. That is the article that we were just talking about above - After it was published, Lauren's uncle made a statement saying that the article had gotten it wrong and Rob Spierer had never said that (i.e. that Lauren was involved in the altercation) and Lauren's dad added that he had not seen any video. See the link I posted to his statement above. It's clear, IMO, that this was in reference to the altercation that we know about between ZO and CR that was described by the PIs and captured on video, and that that particular article misquoted RS.

abby, I'm not sure you're correct, that was NOT the article we were talking about, you were saying that the Spierers were somehow advised to keep the altercation quiet
to "protect" the investigation and that's what the subject was, and I don't think the other rumor ties into that . Whether that's true or not, I can remember reading several discussions, but no, cannot find the link, but people were reporting hearing people say she was outside behind SW arguing, with 2 or 3 men We were talking about rumors, and this was a rumor that started at the very beginning, and afaik, it was never addressed by LE, the Spierers or Lauren's uncle, and people didn't take it seriously. Maybe we should have.
In your last several posts, you have started off by saying, "it's clear that..."this is what someone meant, etc. Respectfully, what you think is clear is not what someone else
might think is clear, or, someone could totally disagree with you, but that doesn't mean
they are wrong, or that you're wrong. I may be wrong, but if you have insider info that means you are absolutely right and others are wrong, you are supposed to register that with the mods, and then you will be a verified insider, and people can take your info as such.
Otherwise, it's speculation and deduction, right?

 

[AbbeyR]

yes, that is the article we were talking about - There are a few links posted by Ros above that are referencing the same thing - the article written by Shawn Cohen for The Journal News/ LoHud. It was also printed in USAtoday. This is the information that Lauren's uncle was talking about in the statement that I linked to. Sorry you are having trouble understanding this, but it is clear if you read it - The statement directly referenced/ linked to the article.

The part about protecting the investigation was my own take (as I stated in my post) on why the information on facebook from the witnesses was deleted and the details of the altercation were not made public at that point.

 

[Ixchel13]

Sorry Abbey, I think our discussion got lost somewhere. I was discussing whether HT was at the altercation, and you pointed out that we weren't supposed to discuss that.
Ok I get that, sorry to everyone. But then, you stated that the witnesses to the altercation were the guys with ZO and I thought you meant there were no more witnesses, or at least that's what I got from that. That's why I asked if you had a link from anyone saying these guys were the only witnesses, because IMO, there had to be more.
what is really weird is, CR saying he doesn't remember any of this. He conveniently adds 15 minutes to his amnesia preceding his punchout, now he has no recollection of what happened,or even being there, and that to me, seems to be giving ZO a get-out-of-jail free card for assault. But there's also that weird wiggle room with CR implying that he may not have had amnesia. He could be angling for being as messed up as lauren to get out of duty of care. that he wasn't aware she was a minor because of fake id. and that his amnesia was drug/alcohol blackout.
It's the whole thing about ZO getting away with assault. It doesn't make sense,
unless CR dropped the charges. I mean by all accounts, here's this guy punching someone out, knocking them down, on video. And because someone told them to
eff off, or something. If I went down to SW with a small gang, entered the building, saw some kids acting out and chastised them, one of them tells me to $#% off. I guarantee you, if I knocked one of them down I would be in jail.
IMO,It could be possible that Lauren was being watched, or stalked, by people who at first were playing what they considered a game but may have not realized how much Lauren needed medical care and that one or more of the POIs were involved. Some people who may or may not have passed texts or pics back and forth may not have even realized they were in the game. Later, realizing that they may have been in the
terrible loop, they could have also unwisely texted and such the POIs or something like that. Thus, for the civil suit, the need for all of these seemingly unconnected e mail and phone records from people we didn't even know were connected.



And, although Lauren did not enter her room, as per LE on the audio, there is not a single shred of evidence to suggest she was not going there.Granted, there were others she knew on that floor (DR?) but that's another can of worms--were ZO and his posse visiting those people or in contact with those people, maybe even about Lauren.
The levels of how much can be disputed, but all of these names involved knew each other.
And their texting and instagramming never stops, I work with many young people and it is amazing how much time they waste sharing with everyone the very last detail
complete w. pictures.Sorry if that sounds curmudgeonly. I live with one. But what I wonder is if the Spierers also want to know from these records just how many people knew this was going on and were talking about it and sharing info about lauren's whereabouts and with whom.

 

[doubtingthomas]

http://archive.lohud.com/article/20...ion-has-no-memory-their-last-moments-together

Saltzmann said he wants police to arrest the student who punched his client.

So why didn't he file charges? If he did why haven't we heard about it?

 

[Ixchel13]

http://archive.lohud.com/article/20...ion-has-no-memory-their-last-moments-together

Saltzmann said he wants police to arrest the student who punched his client.

So why didn't he file charges? If he did why haven't we heard about it?

DT, what is interesting too is the very last line of the story in your link:

"Officer Travis Thickstun said. Spierer and friends were at the bar several hours before she disappeared,"
it says, 'friends' not just CR.
there is no reason not to believe officer Thickson when he says Lauren's friends were also there. It then follows that Lauren's friends might have known in advance that she intended to return to her apt. It then follows that the altercation might have been caused because she was attempting to allow CR in. Because they never got the chance to get to her door doesn't mean they weren't heading there. It's more likely they were going to her apt as opposed to say, a party at SW still going on that may have had JW's friends attending.
So we can have an altercation that didn't include Lauren, no one had anything against her, just the guy she was with, and although they didn't harm Lauren, what they did caused her not to go home where she was safe.
What would you call that? Obviously, the guilty people did some lying as to why they
"stepped in" to "help" Lauren. The need to bury this altercation, and the reason why,
is obvious every time it gets brought up. IMO, there is no way only those 4 guys are involved or that they just happened to run into CR and LS.
And, IMO, LE knows this. The cameras at SW recorded every single person
coming in and out. IMO, it is likely that not just the main POIs are lawyered up.
She was with friends at Kilroys, not just CR. Where did these friends go when LS and CR left? As we have found out, her friends lived at SW, 10th and C and 5N. If they left Kilroys when she did, and the altercation took place 11 or 12 minutes later, the idea that at least one friend saw something is not outrageous, or even unlikely, I find it very likely that someone besides the actual assault team saw something, or even could have done something like call security if they had wanted to.

 

[doubtingthomas]

http://nypost.com/2011/06/09/companion-of-missing-student-from-ny-has-no-memory-of-last-moments/

Salzmann said Rossman was not the last one to see Spierer that morning and three or four others saw her after Rossman.

JR and MB and ? ?. So who is the other person or persons?

 

[akh]

FYI A skeleton was found in Bloomington, IN but the reports say they think it is a male.
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/skeletal-remains-found-in-bloomington-wooded-area

 

[Ros]

http://nypost.com/2011/06/09/companion-of-missing-student-from-ny-has-no-memory-of-last-moments/

Salzmann said Rossman was not the last one to see Spierer that morning and three or four others saw her after Rossman.

JR and MB and ? ?. So who is the other person or persons?

DB and AF

 

[Ros]

FYI A skeleton was found in Bloomington, IN but the reports say they think it is a male.
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/skeletal-remains-found-in-bloomington-wooded-area

Frank Joseph Giza maybe? http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/giza_frank.html

 

[doubtingthomas]

DB and AF

I didn't include DB because they said he was sleeping.

 

[AbbeyR]

Preliminary investigation indicate the remains are those of a white male in his early 20s. The coroner's office believes the man died of an overdose.

Police say the remains are believed to be related to a missing persons case being investigated by the Monroe County Sheriff's Office.

http://www.wthr.com/story/26086750/2014/07/22/human-remains-found-in-bloomington

I wonder how they know this already...

It sounds like LE knows who this person is. Very sad, but at least someone's family may have answers and be able to put their loved one to rest.

 

[AbbeyR]

http://nypost.com/2011/06/09/companion-of-missing-student-from-ny-has-no-memory-of-last-moments/

Salzmann said Rossman was not the last one to see Spierer that morning and three or four others saw her after Rossman.

JR and MB and ? ?. So who is the other person or persons?

Salzmann also gave another quote where he said 2-3 people had seen her after CR. Like Ros, I'm guessing he is referring to JR and MB, and heard that there may have been two out-of-town guests at JR's. But, I'd take his comments with a grain of salt --Since he is claiming that his client had no memory, he must have been going off accounts or rumors from others, and this is also the interview where he claimed Lauren was helping Corey home, which he revised once the video evidence came out.

 

[Ixchel13]

Frank Joseph Giza maybe? http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/giza_frank.html

good one Ros, this was a supposedly really sweet guy traveling around the music scene who disappeared from B Town walking towards
downtown after an argument with friends. He's been linked here many times. People started rumors of sitings and this caused LE to believe he was not dead, but mom didn't think that.

 

[Ixchel13]

I didn't include DB because they said he was sleeping.

QUOTE=doubtingthomas;10781442]I didn't include DB because they said he was sleeping.[/QUOTE]

yes, and the other out of town guest could have been somewhere else, this is why every statement from LE could have another
connotation. We really don't know who Salzmann is referring to when he says 3 or 4 persons! It's safe to say MB and JR.
And I agree with abbey as far as taking things with a grain of salt, in this case, every single word of everything that's been said
should be taken as such.
As far as discrediting sources, I don't think we should be able to use someone as a source, both to prove a point, or to disagree
with someone and then turn around and discredit that person when someone else uses them.
Tony Gatto is a prime example and is pretty universal around here: If I want to present him as a source for a scenario I concoct,
should I be allowed to discredit him as a source when someone else uses him? And I mean in general, as, when someone else uses him after I do, I come on the board and say, "Tony Gatto has given some questionable data, etc, etc,"? Just wondering about that.

 

[imkeylime]

RIP. I wonder how long the person was waiting to be found. If it's awhile, it might bode well for LS, if she wasn't taken far or left in a construction area....

 

[Ros]

I didn't include DB because they said he was sleeping.

Who said he was sleeping? How did they know?

I think that the "three or four other persons" could mean MB, JR and either two people at JRs or one person at JRs and a random abductor.

 

[doubtingthomas]

Who said he was sleeping? How did they know?

I think that the "three or four other persons" could mean MB, JR and either two people at JRs or one person at JRs and a random abductor.

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/gene...sman-focus-of-missing-indiana-student-mystery

In his statement to police, Rosenbaum said he talked with Spierer for a little bit while Bleznak was sleeping in the other room, let her use his cell phone to try and track down her lost one and then watched her leave.

 

[elmorejames]

Alan Wolff said his son, Jesse, was texting him from his house the previous night as a Knicks basketball playoff game was under way on television. He said his son was texting, back and forth, with Spierer that night and that "she indicated to him that she was home and going to sleep." He texted to her that "if you wake up, call me and we'll talk." Then he went to bed, the father said.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/02/missing-student-boyfriend-family-fume/2382909/

According to Tamir, Spierer's boyfriend, Jesse Wolff, had been planning to get together with her that night. But he couldn't reach her, nor she him, because she had left her phone at the bar.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...-activities-before-vanishing?odyssey=nav|head

So JW's dad is saying JW told him, via text, that LS was staying home and going to sleep. HT is saying that JW was planning on getting together with LS that night. So if LS told him she was staying home and going to sleep why would he think they were getting together later?

I first thought that LS might have left her phone at the bar because she was to intoxicated to remember it. But what if, since the game ended at 12:30 and JW didn't go to sleep until 2:30, he was texting her for two hours and CR thought she was being bothered by JW's texting and took her phone away from her. They both left forgetting about the phone on the bar. Just my opinion thinking out loud.

Not that is relevant but the Knicks were eliminated from the Playoffs about a month prior. The game being watched Thursday June 2nd was Dallas Mavericks vs. Miami Heat. So if his son lied about the Knicks being in the NBA finals to his dad he's capable of lying about ANYTHING!

 

[Mahouston69]

[emoji6]

 

[Ixchel13]

Not that is relevant but the Knicks were eliminated from the Playoffs about a month prior. The game being watched Thursday June 2nd was Dallas Mavericks vs. Miami Heat. So if his son lied about the Knicks being in the NBA finals to his dad he's capable of lying about ANYTHING!

how about this EJ: maybe right after Lauren left with DR, someone at that party notified JW. Then, all of the texts he sent his dad were the beginning of his alibi, since he just knew he was going to go out and kick some a?
I mean, who texts their DAD to tell him their gf is going to bed? I find that ludicrous. We don't know how far in advance JW knew Lauren liked this guy, it could have been a set-up from the git go so they could get CR out
and beat the hell out of him. To me, it seems likely that when Lauren and CR got back to SW before the altercation, the whole thing was to get him back out on the street, away from SW security, so they could
beat him up w/o getting arrested. But then Lauren came with, maybe they weren't expecting that. For all we know, someone could have tried to get her to stay but she wouldn't either because she felt threatened or felt that CR was going to be seriously hurt. And, I do think she was capable of thinking those thoughts even if it included panic, intoxication, and physical clumsiness that has been reported as being seen on tape.
also, two ways HT would know they were getting together later, or at least planning to. She was sitting next to lauren as she texted JW (most likely) and knew Lauren was actually going out. Or, JW told her after Lauren was missing. In the former, then, it was probably IMO HT who told JW Lauren was stepping out. In the latter, she is alibiing a POI without any evidence to prove he is telling the truth. Either way, I guess that's why we have to refrain from accusing HT of anything after that point, relevant to
Lauren's disappearance. But I guess that point, right when Lauren was telling JW she was staying in, could be point zero. If
someone else texted him, and told him different, then that person began a deadly cycle of mischief. Maybe that person went too far this time, not Lauren.