IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #33

[Ixchel13]

anything could have happened, thank you so much to god that you say it.\-said toimkeylime.

 

[imkeylime]

anything could have happened, thank you so much to god that you say it.\-said toimkeylime.

You're welcome. I've always been open to a break in this case that extends beyond the POIs. I know I've mentioned the Oakland County Child Killer case, as it truly haunts me. I've watched so many suspects come and go in that case that I can believe almost anything, though I have my favorite theory. Oddly enough, I'm as fixated on one suspect in that case (Christopher Bush) as I am the POIs in this one. But I'd gladly give him up for some good solid evidence that leads to an arrest and closure. FWIW, the biggest problem I have with the POIs is MB. I just don't get his ever-changing story, unless he himself was or is constantly wasted and can't get it straight!

 

[Vidocq]

...That's not to say they'd allow it to exist totally out in the open, or allow violence to become a regular part of it (which itself would be bad PR for IU). But just below the surface, controlled to a point, I could see them allowing.

On the drug issue, I find this suggestion interesting. This whole case seems to point to a huge drug market among the students at IU, yet it seems like you never see a big cocaine bust in the Bloomington newspaper. (Maybe a pot bust or some meth every once in a while.) This causes me to think back to the police informant issue. This game of containment without exposure would require informants, right? Certain facts about CR, that may or may not have been mentioned seem relevant.

CR was arrested and allowed to get pre-trail diversion three times between 2008 and Lauren's disappearance. It's my understanding that it's hard to get it a second time, let alone three times. What were the conditions of him qualifying? After Lauren disappeared, CR was charged with violating the conditions of his pre-trial diversion, found guilty of one of the original charges, and ended up getting charged with fines equal to the pre-trail diversion fees that he'd already paid.

In his list of witnesses submitted to possibly be called in his defense at the civil trial, CR lists two BPD police detectives by name. Why would he call police detectives to testify on his behalf? Along these lines, it's also interesting, though perhaps a coincidence, that CR's attorney is a former Monroe County Prosecutor. Did CR, having been sent in to infiltrate a particular drug ring, get the dumb idea that hitting on somebody's girlfriend would be a good way of going about it, leading to tragic results? (Or maybe she wasn't anybody's girlfriends at the time.) I know this issue's been brought up, but it's where the drug talk earlier made my mind go.

 

[akh]

In his list of witnesses submitted to possibly be called in his defense at the civil trial, CR lists two BPD police detectives by name. Why would he call police detectives to testify on his behalf? .

I don't know specifically, but can speak about that situation generically. Law enforcement tends to know what to say and how to watch their words to fit a situation and make their bust stick. To a point. But sometimes they get sloppy if they think an arrest is going to be easy and they don't expect to be deposed and to see the case actually being defended. So the defense attorney starts bringing in police who were at the scene, or directly involved in the arrest, and deposes them. And lo and behold the stories don't match. It could be bad memories or it could be assumptions on what the other law enforcement officials would've said in their deposition (or even the police report) and they want to make sure they have their back. But what happens is the stories don't match. Or they get caught so obviously trying to bend the truth and fill in blanks that they actually are unclear on that they weaken the state's case. So the defense attorney makes sure and puts them on his witness list for fear that the state won't even use them at trial. So it is a strategy move. Maybe even a bluff just to get the prosecutor curious what the defense is cooking up and what they might have.

So, IOW, it's not necessarily because a couple of law enforcement officials were on CR's side that they'd make his witness list.

 

[Vidocq]

...
So, IOW, it's not necessarily because a couple of law enforcement officials were on CR's side that they'd make his witness list.

In JR's witness list, he simply lists "representatives of Bloomington Police Department". If that's all that CR listed, I'd be inclined to think that the defense was planning to call police witnesses, just to ask, "Isn't it true that the Bloomington Police Department has not chosen to charge my client with being criminally responsible for any misfortune befalling Lauren Spierer?", basically to make the point that if the police could prove anything against JR or CR, then they'd arrest them; so I'm thinking it would be valuable just to have the police on record as saying that: that they have no conclusive proof against them for anything.

What interests me is CR's list naming two detectives by name. Even more intriguing, whereas the second detective is listed by first and last name, the first detective is listed as "Detective [last name]", and then "(first name unknown)". This makes me imagine that the names were coming out of CR's head, told to his lawyer, and CR couldn't remember one of the first names. Like, hypothetically, CR tells his lawyer, "Look if we have to, I want to call the detectives I was working with as an informant, to testify that they told me to infiltrate this group." And, hypothetically, the lawyer says, "Do you remember the names of the detectives you worked with?" And CR says, "Detective so-and-so, and I can't remember the other guy's first name." Just speculating. I mean, if they were just the detectives that were officially working the disappearance, could the lawyers not have found out both first names for the witness list? Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

 

[akh]

In JR's witness list, he simply lists "representatives of Bloomington Police Department". If that's all that CR listed, I'd be inclined to think that the defense was planning to call police witnesses, just to ask, "Isn't it true that the Bloomington Police Department has not chosen to charge my client with being criminally responsible for any misfortune befalling Lauren Spierer?", basically to make the point that if the police could prove anything against JR or CR, then they'd arrest them; so I'm thinking it would be valuable just to have the police on record as saying that: that they have no conclusive proof against them for anything.

What interests me is CR's list naming two detectives by name. Even more intriguing, whereas the second detective is listed by first and last name, the first detective is listed as "Detective [last name]", and then "(first name unknown)". This makes me imagine that the names were coming out of CR's head, told to his lawyer, and CR couldn't remember one of the first names. Like, hypothetically, CR tells his lawyer, "Look if we have to, I want to call the detectives I was working with as an informant, to testify that they told me to infiltrate this group." And, hypothetically, the lawyer says, "Do you remember the names of the detectives you worked with?" And CR says, "Detective so-and-so, and I can't remember the other guy's first name." Just speculating. I mean, if they were just the detectives that were officially working the disappearance, could the lawyers not have found out both first names for the witness list? Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

It could be an even more simple reason than that.... The parents have went out of their way to paint 5N PsOI as uncooperative. Yet, we can tell from the things presented in the civil fillings that they've had to cooperate at least somewhat or else certain things couldn't possibly appear there. And we know from media reports (and I believe there was even video of CR leaving the police dept bldng) that there was at least some type of interaction there as well.

So it could be simply to put those witnesses on the stand to just say they had spoken with them in the course of the investigation to negate the argument or implication that they were avoiding police or not cooperating at all. I doubt they would've been able to probe specifics anyway but having a few or several members of law enforcement confirm they'd spoken with the 5N PsOI in some capacity would've potentially carried some weight to counter any arguments they had been uncooperative and hiding the entire time.

 

[ontheclock]

That's an interesting thought. It addresses one of the things that has made me question random abduction. I've never thought there would be many pervs out at 4:15 am (could be wrong, of course). In the Hannah Graham case, for instance, I can see the suspect combing the bar scene looking for a vulnerable young woman. I can also see a perv waiting in an alley etc., for an opportunity. But 4:15 is late and random, IMO. Of course, 4:15 itself could be wrong, but I don't get why JR would insert himself and that time into the equation. ???

Although I still question her being able to do so, I have wondered if LS could have stumbled out of 5N to escape unwanted attention from one or more of the 5N guys. Maybe he/they got pissed that she wouldn't cooperate and gave her good riddance? If so, maybe she went the wrong way and hid? Of course, being found by someone else with bad intentions would be the worst luck ever. But who knows ...

Nothing would surprise me at this point. I have flip flopped so many times. I rarely post because I cannot make my mind up. Nothing fits perfectly, not even good. All scenarios are still on the table for me.

 

[imkeylime]

Nothing would surprise me at this point. I have flip flopped so many times. I rarely post because I cannot make my mind up. Nothing fits perfectly, not even good. All scenarios are still on the table for me.

I hear you. This morning, while painting the bathroom, I started thinking about MB's not quite interchangeable stories. This has undoubtedly been brought up here (probably more than once), but I wonder if MB has more than one story because he was trying to cover more than one base. Like maybe he told the neighbor woman that LS left while he was upstairs before he knew that more than one person had seen him walk her into JR's or something. Maybe DB really was asleep at JR's and woke up with the commotion. Or maybe LS was at MB/CR's place more than once that night. Maybe she did leave MB/CR's on her own volition earlier than reported, was carried back, and then left again with "assistance."

I'm not saying that something excluding the POIs couldn't have happened, but I really need an answer to why MB kept changing his story. For whatever reason, it seems like MB had to piece things together. I think we need to know why ...

 

[Ixchel13]

this MB had a paper due, obviously he documented that. So what? Why would that even enter into the scenario? Well, if he had any adderall, or any of the new adderall type "focusing" drugs these students are crazy about, and btw their parents help them get scripts for. If he had some lines of adderall out, and we know he was running back and forth to JR's so IMO, it could have been that people knew MB had some lines of adderall out, because after all, he had a paper due.No matter how much he partied that night, that ol' paper was going to get written!
His "confused" stories could be because maybe he offered Lauren a line or two of adderall. I've always thought it was MB who asked if Lauren wanted to party, not the other way around. Afterall, Lauren didn't have her purse, shoes, etc. How was she going to offer anything to him?
He can say that while he was upstairs, Lauren must have helped herself unasked to some adderall he was using to study. This is the entire reason for the paper due, if he is in fact aiding and abetting in this. IMO, he most likely has a prescription for adderall, of course it could be vyvanse or any of those VERY addictive and potent drugs. Doing a hit of vyvanse, for example, could have meant the end for Lauren, it just can't be mixed with anything.

 

[imkeylime]

this MB had a paper due, obviously he documented that. So what? Why would that even enter into the scenario? Well, if he had any adderall, or any of the new adderall type "focusing" drugs these students are crazy about, and btw their parents help them get scripts for. If he had some lines of adderall out, and we know he was running back and forth to JR's so IMO, it could have been that people knew MB had some lines of adderall out, because after all, he had a paper due.No matter how much he partied that night, that ol' paper was going to get written!
His "confused" stories could be because maybe he offered Lauren a line or two of adderall. I've always thought it was MB who asked if Lauren wanted to party, not the other way around. Afterall, Lauren didn't have her purse, shoes, etc. How was she going to offer anything to him?
He can say that while he was upstairs, Lauren must have helped herself unasked to some adderall he was using to study. This is the entire reason for the paper due, if he is in fact aiding and abetting in this. IMO, he most likely has a prescription for adderall, of course it could be vyvanse or any of those VERY addictive and potent drugs. Doing a hit of vyvanse, for example, could have meant the end for Lauren, it just can't be mixed with anything.

Interesting thought about MB asking LS to party, as I can't imagine her being in the condition to ask him. Or maybe he/they just forced her to take something?

 

[jamicat]

I don't think MB was involved anymore than he says. The time line pretty much fits with what can be tracked by camera and what JR has said. JR isn't going to be taking the rap for anyone. MB was working on papers that were due the next day, and LE was able to corroborate that with the course profs, and MB's computer. That he was working on them last minute is typical for students. Whether he was on anything to help him through that ordeal, who knows? But he was confronted with two drunk, out of it people--CR and Lauren. It makes sense he just wanted to get them out of his hair. It's not fun to be around people like that when you are not in the same shape, and it was way past party time. There's evidence that CR did vomit, and the story is that MB just guided him to his room so he could pass out in bed. Then, whatever the story or reason, he took Lauren over to JR's. MB was not a close friend of Laurens, whereas JR and she went back a long ways.

By that time in the morning, everyone was worn out and those who'd been drinking and drugging it up were probably really feeling it. I really can see why JR did not want to stir from his place and walk Lauren home.

I think she was walking home barefoot and still obviously out of it when someone driving by, spotted her, offered her a ride, and that was it. No cameras to catch it so she literally disappeared in thin air. If someone had been quick enough to collect every single camera within a given radius and track every single vehicle that was out at that time in the morning, as some citizens did in the Leiby Kletzy case, maybe something could have been found. There could not be that many cars out and about that time of the morning.

That there were not several teams of very good cadaver dogs let loose in that area is puzzling, or there were and no definitive hits were found. Had she died in that area and her body had to be transported, the dogs would have noted something. I read something about some unofficial dogs showing some scent, but nothing about official cadaver dogs finding anything, and I think they were brought on the scene. I think Lauren left the area alive, and something happened off site. Whoever was with her either killed her or she died on that person(s). Off the police and search radar, so she could have been dropped off anywhere.

 

[Ixchel13]

I don't think MB was involved anymore than he says. The time line pretty much fits with what can be tracked by camera and what JR has said. JR isn't going to be taking the rap for anyone. MB was working on papers that were due the next day, and LE was able to corroborate that with the course profs, and MB's computer. That he was working on them last minute is typical for students. Whether he was on anything to help him through that ordeal, who knows? But he was confronted with two drunk, out of it people--CR and Lauren. It makes sense he just wanted to get them out of his hair. It's not fun to be around people like that when you are not in the same shape, and it was way past party time. There's evidence that CR did vomit, and the story is that MB just guided him to his room so he could pass out in bed. Then, whatever the story or reason, he took Lauren over to JR's. MB was not a close friend of Laurens, whereas JR and she went back a long ways.

By that time in the morning, everyone was worn out and those who'd been drinking and drugging it up were probably really feeling it. I really can see why JR did not want to stir from his place and walk Lauren home.

I think she was walking home barefoot and still obviously out of it when someone driving by, spotted her, offered her a ride, and that was it. No cameras to catch it so she literally disappeared in thin air. If someone had been quick enough to collect every single camera within a given radius and track every single vehicle that was out at that time in the morning, as some citizens did in the Leiby Kletzy case, maybe something could have been found. There could not be that many cars out and about that time of the morning.

That there were not several teams of very good cadaver dogs let loose in that area is puzzling, or there were and no definitive hits were found. Had she died in that area and her body had to be transported, the dogs would have noted something. I read something about some unofficial dogs showing some scent, but nothing about official cadaver dogs finding anything, and I think they were brought on the scene. I think Lauren left the area alive, and something happened off site. Whoever was with her either killed her or she died on that person(s). Off the police and search radar, so she could have been dropped off anywhere.

I guess you solved the case so we should stop speculating about the POIs? lol, just kidding:drumroll:, MB has not been taken off the POI list afaik. IMO, there are good reasons why LE stayed way far away from the civil trial. THEY, unlike the judge from the civil suit, have not excused anyone from anything yet. So unfortunately for him, MB still
remains fodder for discussion until such an occurrence.

 

[Ixchel13]

"whereas JR and she went back a long ways.

By that time in the morning, everyone was worn out and those who'd been drinking and drugging it up were probably really feeling it. I really can see why JR did not want to stir from his place and walk Lauren home. "
quoted from above post by jamicat^^^^

this quote is mildly contradicting. If JR really did go way back with Lauren, he should be concerned. IF his story is true, he let a close friend walk home alone, barefoot, injured, and incapacitated. Not only would she be prey to any weirdo passing by, but, also very easy to be picked up by the police and arrested.

If this is easy for you to understand why he did that, I feel you are being overly sympathetic. IF his story is true, Lauren would be alive today if he had made sure she got home safely.
If you can understand and sympathize with JR for not walking her home, then you should have enough empathy for her parents to understand why they can never forgive that selfish, callous decision not to see their daughter home. As a result of that decision and the fact that LE does not believe his story therefore he remains a POI, you should also understand why he is not seen in a sympathetic light on this board. Pity, maybe, but not sympathy.
This is a victim friendly board, iirc. People do crazy things and get themselves in trouble, the point is, IMO, they don't deserve to die because they got inebriated.
If they can't be troubled to even call her friends and boyfriend to come and get her, I don't feel sorry for the scrutiny they receive now. Or, maybe they did call someone.
She asked MB for help to get home, and he supposedly dumped her off on JR. He was working on his paper, but he was also running back and forth to JR's all night. What, did JR have his pencil sharpener? The protraying MB as an innocent lamb went out threads and threads ago.
Also, I don't feel comfortable with your repeated insistence that Lauren ""hopped, popped, and/or jumped" into a strange/familiar person's car because they offered her drugs. That is the least possible scenario IMO.

 

[imkeylime]

I don't think MB was involved anymore than he says. The time line pretty much fits with what can be tracked by camera and what JR has said. JR isn't going to be taking the rap for anyone. MB was working on papers that were due the next day, and LE was able to corroborate that with the course profs, and MB's computer. That he was working on them last minute is typical for students. Whether he was on anything to help him through that ordeal, who knows? But he was confronted with two drunk, out of it people--CR and Lauren. It makes sense he just wanted to get them out of his hair. It's not fun to be around people like that when you are not in the same shape, and it was way past party time. There's evidence that CR did vomit, and the story is that MB just guided him to his room so he could pass out in bed. Then, whatever the story or reason, he took Lauren over to JR's. MB was not a close friend of Laurens, whereas JR and she went back a long ways.

By that time in the morning, everyone was worn out and those who'd been drinking and drugging it up were probably really feeling it. I really can see why JR did not want to stir from his place and walk Lauren home.

I think she was walking home barefoot and still obviously out of it when someone driving by, spotted her, offered her a ride, and that was it. No cameras to catch it so she literally disappeared in thin air. If someone had been quick enough to collect every single camera within a given radius and track every single vehicle that was out at that time in the morning, as some citizens did in the Leiby Kletzy case, maybe something could have been found. There could not be that many cars out and about that time of the morning.

That there were not several teams of very good cadaver dogs let loose in that area is puzzling, or there were and no definitive hits were found. Had she died in that area and her body had to be transported, the dogs would have noted something. I read something about some unofficial dogs showing some scent, but nothing about official cadaver dogs finding anything, and I think they were brought on the scene. I think Lauren left the area alive, and something happened off site. Whoever was with her either killed her or she died on that person(s). Off the police and search radar, so she could have been dropped off anywhere.

But how do you account for Valerie Sokolov's claim that MB told her LS had left when he was upstairs with CR? Here's the link ... it's a little ways down:

http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/features/the-lauren-spierer-mystery-unraveled/

I don't get why this woman would put herself and reputation on the line by saying this if if didn't happen. Unless she had some vendetta against MB, I don't see what good it would do her. Also, I'm curious as what proof there is that CR vomited at 5N. I can see that happening, based on the fact that he was drinking and got punched in the face, but I've never seen it supported by anything except MB's claim.

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but IMO, a lot of guys would help a young woman in LS' condition home. She was enough out of it for MB to take her to JR's, and she had a bruise on her face that she couldn't remember getting. Maybe JR didn't, but there's also the phone call, which either he made to get her a ride or she made to find her phone. If he thought she needed a ride, it seems like he would have been reluctant to let her walk. At the very least, he could have let her borrow his phone just in case. Also, the idea that she was calling someone to find her phone at 4 in the morning seems odd, especially as most college students text vs. call.

I'm not saying that LS couldn't have somehow left 5N and been picked up by someone with nefarious intentions. But MB's story does vary, and JR's story doesn't make the most sense, IMO.

 

[Ixchel13]

But how do you account for Valerie Sokolov's claim that MB told her LS had left when he was upstairs with CR? Here's the link ... it's a little ways down:

http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/features/the-lauren-spierer-mystery-unraveled/

I don't get why this woman would put herself and reputation on the line by saying this if if didn't happen. Unless she had some vendetta against MB, I don't see what good it would do her. Also, I'm curious as what proof there is that CR vomited at 5N. I can see that happening, based on the fact that he was drinking and got punched in the face, but I've never seen it supported by anything except MB's claim.


Maybe it's wishful thinking, but IMO, most guys would help a young woman in LS' condition home. She was enough out of it for MB to take her to JR's, and she had a bruise on her face that she couldn't remember getting. It's alleged that JR tried to find her a ride, which would suggest he thought she needed one. In addition, DB was also at the apartment, so if JR couldn't, DB could have.

I'm not saying that LS couldn't have somehow left 5N and been picked up by someone with nefarious intentions. But MB's story does vary, and JR's doesn't really make sense, IMO.

ok I guess you said it more politely, thanks.

 

[imkeylime]

ok I guess you said it more politely, thanks.

I think I was writing while you were posting! Also, I saw your query on the Hannah Graham forum about JM having friends in Bloomington and did briefly wonder about that. I'm thankful that we're looking at all possible alternatives, regardless of how I feel about the POIs. It's a long shot, but JM apparently liked the closing bar scene. But I think it would imply that he followed CR and LS that night or was just driving by at the right time. Both he and his car would have stood out, IMO.

 

[AbbeyR]

I don't think MB was involved anymore than he says. The time line pretty much fits with what can be tracked by camera and what JR has said. JR isn't going to be taking the rap for anyone. MB was working on papers that were due the next day, and LE was able to corroborate that with the course profs, and MB's computer. That he was working on them last minute is typical for students. Whether he was on anything to help him through that ordeal, who knows? But he was confronted with two drunk, out of it people--CR and Lauren. It makes sense he just wanted to get them out of his hair. It's not fun to be around people like that when you are not in the same shape, and it was way past party time. There's evidence that CR did vomit, and the story is that MB just guided him to his room so he could pass out in bed. Then, whatever the story or reason, he took Lauren over to JR's. MB was not a close friend of Laurens, whereas JR and she went back a long ways.

By that time in the morning, everyone was worn out and those who'd been drinking and drugging it up were probably really feeling it. I really can see why JR did not want to stir from his place and walk Lauren home.

I think she was walking home barefoot and still obviously out of it when someone driving by, spotted her, offered her a ride, and that was it. No cameras to catch it so she literally disappeared in thin air. If someone had been quick enough to collect every single camera within a given radius and track every single vehicle that was out at that time in the morning, as some citizens did in the Leiby Kletzy case, maybe something could have been found. There could not be that many cars out and about that time of the morning.

That there were not several teams of very good cadaver dogs let loose in that area is puzzling, or there were and no definitive hits were found. Had she died in that area and her body had to be transported, the dogs would have noted something. I read something about some unofficial dogs showing some scent, but nothing about official cadaver dogs finding anything, and I think they were brought on the scene. I think Lauren left the area alive, and something happened off site. Whoever was with her either killed her or she died on that person(s). Off the police and search radar, so she could have been dropped off anywhere.

I don't recall LE making any statements about corroborating MB's story with profs and his computer... Did they? The only person who said anything like that that I can recall was (the person claiming to be) MB's mom, and she said other things that turned out not to be true as well. It's hard for me to evaluate what fits with what MB says, since there are multiple and contradictory versions of his story. His first story was that he was home all night working on papers and that he visited with Lauren because they were friends. Then there were other witness reports, as keylime mentioned, about when/ how Lauren left, and according to the Private investigators, he did not stay home working on his papers all night at all, he was at JR's. The lawsuit docs also report that MB wasn't even home when Lauren and Corey got there. So was he more involved than what he says? Based on which statement? How to choose?

Still, I don't know his involvement. I too think there is a possibility she left and was taken by someone else. But, based on a number of factors, that chance seems very slim based on location and timing, and it still leaves me wondering why MB and the other POIs couldn't give a coherent account about where Lauren was when, and what happened in the few hours before she disappeared.

On your other points about cameras, I agree. The Leiby Kletzy case was pretty remarkable in that respect... LE did say that they collected hundreds of hours of video surveillance though, so I hope that there is more evidence than we know about. Same goes for cadaver dogs. There are rumors, but no one has ever been able to find out if there was anything to them.

 

[AbbeyR]

I hear you. This morning, while painting the bathroom, I started thinking about MB's not quite interchangeable stories. This has undoubtedly been brought up here (probably more than once), but I wonder if MB has more than one story because he was trying to cover more than one base. Like maybe he told the neighbor woman that LS left while he was upstairs before he knew that more than one person had seen him walk her into JR's or something. Maybe DB really was asleep at JR's and woke up with the commotion. Or maybe LS was at MB/CR's place more than once that night. Maybe she did leave MB/CR's on her own volition earlier than reported, was carried back, and then left again with "assistance."

I'm not saying that something excluding the POIs couldn't have happened, but I really need an answer to why MB kept changing his story. For whatever reason, it seems like MB had to piece things together. I think we need to know why ...

Sorry, I'm catching up and reading backwards. I could have just posted "yeah that" to keylime's posts! I absolutely think that the reason why the POI never committed to one story and got others to speak on their behalf is that there are contradictions in their early accounts and they may not have known what evidence could turn up. CR learned this early when video evidence contradicted the claims his lawyer was making about helping Lauren home. The vague statements and leaving each other out of their own accounts leaves a lot of questions and requires that others fill in the blanks.

 

[akh]

But how do you account for Valerie Sokolov's claim that MB told her LS had left when he was upstairs with CR? Here's the link ... it's a little ways down:

http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/features/the-lauren-spierer-mystery-unraveled/

I don't get why this woman would put herself and reputation on the line by saying this if if didn't happen. Unless she had some vendetta against MB, I don't see what good it would do her.

Without the ability to question her or hear the actual interview, I've always thought that this quote just seems like either she misunderstood what MB said or the reporter misunderstood what she was being told. Obviously it could be a 100% accurate retelling of exactly what MB said but it just as easily (and IMO even more likely) just be a muddled version of what he'd said. All it had to be was him saying he put CR to bed, came downstairs with her to JR, and she was gone and he never saw her again. Miss a small part of that and you have the reported part. And LE would certainly have this info if a discrepancy exists.

IOW I think this is notable to wonder about and remember, but not the smoking gun at all... And as likely or more likely just to be a memory, hearing, and/or reporting discrepancy. Not something to rise to a point that we can unequivocally state that MB story has changed drastically. Particularly when we still don't know what he told LE from the start anyway.

 

[Mahouston69]

I think he simply meant to "distance" himself from Lauren and not trying to go into any detail with how involved he was in her evening. Again, probably thinking JR wouldn't ever claim to have been the last to see her or tell anyone that any of them saw her after she left to Kilroys.