IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #34

[Ros]

Another 4 year anniversary article: http://m.washtimesherald.com/news/l...cle_06dfa0b7-da93-5c90-bbca-87bf232c82ef.html.
No, she has not been forgotten.


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[Ros]

Yet another four year article; http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-spierer-missing-4-year-anniversary/28465365/
"I don't believe a man who has been charged with the murder of a college student could ever be eliminated as a suspect in such a similar (prior) case," Indiana state police Sgt. Curt Durnil said Wednesday. "However, at this time there is no known connection between Messel and Lauren Spierer."


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[akh]

That quote seems to confirm what I was thinking the other day. While they might not have anything to connect DM to the LS case, they don't have anything to clear him and make him not a suspect (or person of interest) either.

 

[4 Free Speech]

6.6.15

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150606/news/306069997/

<The answers started to unfold when the 19-year-old IU student's remains were discovered in a Morgan County field.

"Knowing something does help," she said. "The not knowing is the hardest part."

She tried to keep her thoughts from entering the darkest places.

"I want to remember the Jill I knew. I don't want to remember the Jill that was murdered. Shot." Last week, she learned the Indiana Court of Appeals denied the request of her daughter's convicted killer to be released from prison.

In the 15 years since her daughter was killed after being abducted from the town where she grew up, Marilyn Behrman's hair has turned from a mother's brown to a grandmother's gray. She'll sometimes catch the stares of people who recognize her, but can't quite place the face. Or sometimes, strangers who know who she is stop to talk.

It's not students who remember her daughter. It's the people of Bloomington. At the grocery store. In elevators. In the doctor's office waiting room.

"It's good for me to know that people still care and they remember. That's something to hang on to.">

Thoughts and Prayers out to Lauren's family tonight, please know that so many people care.

 

[bessie]

I know I'm a few days late here (so, what else is new), but couldn't let another day go by without posting for Lauren. She and her family remain in my thoughts (and yes, my prayers, too), and will until the day she returns home.

LINK

 

[AbbeyR]

I have doubts that there will be any link to DM.

That's the impression I'm getting from the recent quotes from the private investigators and more recently, CS too. It still sounds to me like Lauren's parents think something happened at 5 N.

"If someone had called 911 on June 3, our lives would be completely different," Charlene Spierer said.

During a February appeals court hearing in Chicago, a federal judge asked why someone didn't call 911 that night.

"I felt like I had been waiting three and a half years for someone to say that. Finally, someone, a voice of authority, said it," she said.

She waits for the tragic to turn into a different kind of tragic.

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150606/news/306069997/

It's hard to believe another anniversary has gone by. Thinking of Lauren and her family.

 

[Ixchel13]

I have doubts that there will be any link to DM.

That's the impression I'm getting from the recent quotes from the private investigators and more recently, CS too. It still sounds to me like Lauren's parents think something happened at 5 N.

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150606/news/306069997/

It's hard to believe another anniversary has gone by. Thinking of Lauren and her family.

sounds like they might have some new info, or, info we never had.

 

[biscuits222]

sounds like they might have some new info, or, info we never had.

The parents often seem to say stuff like that, so I imagine they're hoping to trigger a confession since they probably have no particular new or hidden evidence. Nadine Wolf did say that astonishing thing a few years ago, "This poor little girl is not with us today because of her drug abuse," implying she knows that LS died of drugs and was then disposed of, yet that was probably just a conjecture too. It's a common thing to say that a missing person died of drugs with no evidence to back it up.

 

[akh]

I think if the parents actually had evidence of something and actually knew something that isn't already known in the public then it would be in a lawsuit by now. While, certainly they have some details we don't know since we know they talked to JR directly, for example, but it's all likely just the fleshed out versions of the common narrative that we all know. IOW, it still adds up to them saying they aren't guilty of her disappearance and nothing to contradict that of any substance.

 

[Ixchel13]

I think if the parents actually had evidence of something and actually knew something that isn't already known in the public then it would be in a lawsuit by now. While, certainly they have some details we don't know since we know they talked to JR directly, for example, but it's all likely just the fleshed out versions of the common narrative that we all know. IOW, it still adds up to them saying they aren't guilty of her disappearance and nothing to contradict that of any substance.

i agree, and yet the parents were privy to what IMO are
eyewitnesses to the two parties we have been told she attended.
Also, how do we know who on the witness list may have been at Kilroy's?. We know the Spierers have listed people not in the main narrative. they have requested medical records from these people. Their PIs have
talked to these people, IMO, speculation.
people have asked, who are these witnesses and where do they fit in? if the trial is a fishing expo, then maybe
the duty of care might extend to others, namely, the unnamed POIs?
If they can prove that Lauren was hounded back onto the street when she was safely home, it might not be the giving of alcohol type but the duty of care when someone forces someone into a hazardous position willingly and knowingly.
yes, we have heard about CR pulling and pushing her,
iirc, PIs say helping her or something like that. we don't get to hear anything verbal throughout the altercation. It is said Lauren looks intoxicated and unsteady, but really, what was being said? we hear what CR says,only from his assailant. and only one line from ZO.
if they knew she was safely home, and from their own testimony, inebriated, did any of them cause her in any way to abandon that safety? because they knew she wasn't thinking clearly, and wanted to scare her?
just musing....

 

[AbbeyR]

I think if the parents actually had evidence of something and actually knew something that isn't already known in the public then it would be in a lawsuit by now.

Well, there was recent talk of new leads or information, so I guess we'll have to wait and see!

 

[Ixchel13]

The parents often seem to say stuff like that, so I imagine they're hoping to trigger a confession since they probably have no particular new or hidden evidence. Nadine Wolf did say that astonishing thing a few years ago, "This poor little girl is not with us today because of her drug abuse," implying she knows that LS died of drugs and was then disposed of, yet that was probably just a conjecture too. It's a common thing to say that a missing person died of drugs with no evidence to back it up.

BBM biscuits, when I first read that line, I thought, "how does she know that?" maybe when his mom grilled JW
he "speculated".
Thing about it is, JW was widely rumored to deal coke, his frat was known for that. His mom had to know her son was no innocent. Doubtful Lauren was out scoring coke for him, it is almost always the other way around.
Honor among thieves...some say this doesn't exist. If not honor, what keeps them loyal? It's a mutual blackmail situation. This is definitely a puzzle. We have the infrastructure of the puzzle, but we lack the connecting pieces. It seems to me that several people share the blame for Lauren's disappearance, but in different ways, yet there is a common factor that keeps them loyal. and it has to be
enough to get them really in trouble.
one of the avenues DT and I tried to follow was their business connections. They existed, these guys were starting up tech inventions and then re-selling them. I remember one of the first things they did was establish a propaganda that none of them were close friends. That JR and JW didn't like each other was the dissimulation.
especially MB-- that made his story seem believable.
The quiet, studious guy imposed upon by these partiers.
Geez, he was only trying to study. just precious, that.
If someone wavered, they could bring up the frat loyalty they had pledged. If that didn't work, out and out blackmail.

edited at this point, got carried away.

Even if someone like DM did abduct Lauren, these guys are still @#$& jerks who allowed it to happen.

everything JMO, MOO,IMO

 

[Ros]

JW - one can easily look at his behavior in different ways:
Facebook post about "urge to kill." Innocent quote from "Major Payne" or an expression of anger when his girl wanted to see other guys?
Getting key from HT: fears LS in her bed, unconscious, in need of medical attention or fears what will happen when authorities find something in her room.
Parents arrive soon and he leaves with them: Planned to move home anyway, or wanted to avoid further questioning, or wanted to get rid of evidence, ....

Which fraternity was he in? I thought he was in the same one as JR, but they weren't close. Acacia was the one that lost its charter for drug dealing, allegedly in coke.

 

[Wondering Aloud]

https://www.courtlistener.com/audio/11346/robert-spierer-v-corey-rossman/

Haven't listened yet

 

[AbbeyR]

Thanks, WA.

Listening to that makes me think about how frustrating this must be for the Spierers.

The lawyers talk in circles - They question the evidence that the Spierer's have, but the Spierer's haven't been permitted to collect evidence. They argue that they can't be held responsible to a 'duty of care' when no one even knows what happened to Lauren, but their clients won't even go on record to say whether or not they know what happened to Lauren. At one point, Garrison, arguing that MB shouldn't be involved in the civil suit, argues that obviously, Lauren went to JR's willingly from MB's because there's no evidence she didn't - she wasn't handcuffed, she wasn't driven.

Um, right, she wasn't driven. It was steps away. But no, it's not obvious that she went willingly. Or at all. Hence the 10 witnesses that the Spierer's were hoping could testify about the fact that when Lauren was last seen she was incapacitated and couldn't walk on her own.

 

[Ixchel13]

JW - one can easily look at his behavior in different ways:
Facebook post about "urge to kill." Innocent quote from "Major Payne" or an expression of anger when his girl wanted to see other guys?
Getting key from HT: fears LS in her bed, unconscious, in need of medical attention or fears what will happen when authorities find something in her room.
Parents arrive soon and he leaves with them: Planned to move home anyway, or wanted to avoid further questioning, or wanted to get rid of evidence, ....

Which fraternity was he in? I thought he was in the same one as JR, but they weren't close. Acacia was the one that lost its charter for drug dealing, allegedly in coke.

he was in AEPI, Alpha Epsilon Pi. Yes, Acacia lost their charter but AEPI lost theirs first,
mainly for hazing but amid rumors of heavy dope dealing as well. About the propaganda that JR and JW weren't close, just that, propaganda. They wrote a blog together about Greek life,
and in August of 2011 they seemed to have some sort of tech start up businesses going in the same building bought at that time in Birmingham MI.

(modsnip)

They were in the same frat, they went to the same summer camp, they had the same friends, and plain and simple, they were friends.
Back to the frats, Acacia was wild, but AEPI has a worse reputation. And I've seen them in action. They have a very obvious misogynistic streak and this runs deeply through their ranks, not just one or two.
What happens when these frats are about to lose their charters is, first they're charged with a list of
misdoings, for example, another frat 2 years ago was charged with drug dealing, underage drinking, DRUGGING (rufying someone), destruction of property, among other charges, and was facing
a revoking of their charter--lo and behold, rich parents and lawyers enter the scene, charges dropped.
I guess Acacia was either in too deeply or parents didn't shell out enough bucks for legal rep.
oh yeah, they go through a vetting process by the Panhellenic Council, ock, ock.

 

[Matic]

Thinking of Lauren as I pack things and head home to bloomington for a week to visit family and friends. These 1300 mile round trippers are getting harder and harder on this old fella.

 

[monkey222]

Where is she? Enough is enough.

 

[Vidocq]

Having previously heard the rumor that Lauren's body ending up in a river, combined with the report of the police searching Indian Creek, combined with my suspicion that some of those involved are from Indy, has all previously made me suspect that Lauren may have been put somewhere in the White River or Indian Creek, which one would naturally pass, driving from Bloomington to Indy.

More recently, though, I heard a rumor, that's supposedly going around at Smallwood, that Lauren's body was disposed of in the Ohio River in Evansville. That seems like quite a drive from Bloomington. All I know about Evansville is I remember there being a gambling boat there. Was there talk on this thread about a phone ping in Martinsville? Does anyone know of any Evansville connections to persons of interest?

 

[pappa rob]

Having previously heard the rumor that Lauren's body ending up in a river, combined with the report of the police searching Indian Creek, combined with my suspicion that some of those involved are from Indy, has all previously made me suspect that Lauren may have been put somewhere in the White River or Indian Creek, which one would naturally pass, driving from Bloomington to Indy.

More recently, though, I heard a rumor, that's supposedly going around at Smallwood, that Lauren's body was disposed of in the Ohio River in Evansville. That seems like quite a drive from Bloomington. All I know about Evansville is I remember there being a gambling boat there. Was there talk on this thread about a phone ping in Martinsville? Does anyone know of any Evansville connections to persons of interest?

In the summer of 2013 most of the creeks in Indiana were almost dry, rivers were barely running. The White River was only waist deep for most of it. SO I don't think she would be in any creeks. After Lauren disappeared Lake Griffy, the one closest to the University was completely drained. So it would have to be a much deeper body of water.