IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #35

[Ros]

By the way, in early July of 2011 the sidewalk on College in front of the house at the corner of 11th and College was torn up. What was it like in early June? Anyone have pictures?

 

[doubtingthomas]

By the way, in early July of 2011 the sidewalk on College in front of the house at the corner of 11th and College was torn up. What was it like in early June? Anyone have pictures?

Ros. Go to this link Bessie set up with pictures. Btown posted some of them on 6-14-2011.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...20-Bloomington-03-June-2011-*PHOTOS-amp-MAPS*

 

[Yeahbabs]

I'll attach a screenshot of the map with all of the points that you requested, Ixchel13. But here is a link to the interactive Google map I made so that you can zoom in wherever you want, etc.

 

[Tr.]

Hey Tr, I am intrigued! So you searched that specific area off State Road 45 and Plum Creek Road in 2011 for LS? Did other volunteers search with you? How did you know to search at that location?

I've searched all over those woods for any sign of LS. I use topographic maps to find unmarked roads. Also just wander around places looking for spots that might make sense to hide a body. I had heard of that property from people that I've known from Lothlorian N.S. (near Needmore south) or Bedford IN.
On that particular day my eldest son was with me (he's adult age) and after hiking thru "the old land" as I call it we took a lunch break on an empty lot we had searched. Turns out it's the same lot that you see in the news clips where people laid flowers for Hannah.

I was also using time and distance graphs that I make to try and estimate potential driving routes based on the timeline as we all know it and then adding my own "what if" adjustments. FYI..the same calculations also took me into the Martinsville and other areas.

 

[Tr.]

I worked with this total meth head woman, I mean probs 40 years old, looked 60, no teeth; yet she knew every edible flower around, knew where an entire field of chantrelles grew, basically knew where everything that could be gleaned was--she lives down in Brown County by DM.

Do we have a Brown County address for DM or were you thinking of the Ison Rd address?

Never mind ...i saw the maps..thanks.

 

[imkeylime]

Thank you for the diligent searching in that area, Tr. It's also interesting how Martinsville comes up time and time again.

 

[Yeahbabs]

For Lauren,JMW has been implicated by FBI and LE; DM implicated by snitch and killed Hannah.

The only thing that's bothering me about the idea of the jailhouse snitch....

One of the most compelling parts of his story, obviously, is the claim that he has pictures, but especially, imo, pics of an ID that says Rebecca.

But iirc, wasn't one of the items in the affidavit against Sports the fake ID found with her keys or whatever? Is there any way to know if that ID was Rebecca's? It's definitely not unheard of for a kid to have 2 fake IDs, but it seems unlikely (and even less likely that you'd have 2 with you but only drop 1 with your coin purse). If there were not 2, and the only one was recovered, the snitch can't have pics of an ID that says Rebecca.

I guess my assumption with things like this is a snitch type is either telling the truth or completely full of s***. But maybe not.

 

[Yeahbabs]

Tr., you're making me wonder... Do we know anything about any other family members of DM? He was only living with his stepfather? It seems weird that, if his mother wasn't in the stepfather's life anymore that stepfather would maintain a relationship with an adult (former?) stepson. I also think it's weird that DM has the same last name as his stepfather. But anyway, just curious if his mother, bio father or anyone else live in the area? Obviously JMW dragged his whole extended family into his, um, situations.

 

[Yeahbabs]

He does. Are we allowed to mention his relatives' names? Interestingly, I clicked on his probably sister's LinkedIn profile, and on the "People Also Viewed" section it lists CR and JW! Maybe just other websleuthers.

 

[Ixchel13]

He does. Are we allowed to mention his relatives' names? Interestingly, I clicked on his probably sister's LinkedIn profile, and on the "People Also Viewed" section it lists CR and JW! Maybe just other websleuthers.

bbm shut the front door!

 

[Ros]

The only thing that's bothering me about the idea of the jailhouse snitch....

One of the most compelling parts of his story, obviously, is the claim that he has pictures, but especially, imo, pics of an ID that says Rebecca.

But iirc, wasn't one of the items in the affidavit against Sports the fake ID found with her keys or whatever? Is there any way to know if that ID was Rebecca's? It's definitely not unheard of for a kid to have 2 fake IDs, but it seems unlikely (and even less likely that you'd have 2 with you but only drop 1 with your coin purse). If there were not 2, and the only one was recovered, the snitch can't have pics of an ID that says Rebecca.

I guess my assumption with things like this is a snitch type is either telling the truth or completely full of s***. But maybe not.

As I recall, it was her real student ID that was dropped, possibly in the coin purse. JR said she had her fake ID with her. But Kilroy's was charged because her fake ID did not match her description, so LE must have seen the fake ID she used or an image of it.

 

[IMH]

I've searched all over those woods for any sign of LS. I use topographic maps to find unmarked roads. Also just wander around places looking for spots that might make sense to hide a body. I had heard of that property from people that I've known from Lothlorian N.S. (near Needmore south) or Bedford IN.
On that particular day my eldest son was with me (he's adult age) and after hiking thru "the old land" as I call it we took a lunch break on an empty lot we had searched. Turns out it's the same lot that you see in the news clips where people laid flowers for Hannah.

I was also using time and distance graphs that I make to try and estimate potential driving routes based on the timeline as we all know it and then adding my own "what if" adjustments. FYI..the same calculations also took me into the Martinsville and other areas.

Hey Tr, did you see that abandoned house on the property just north Plum Creek and SR 45 where HW was found? And the general condition of the entire property (now owned by Kneadmore Church according to GIS and tax info) in terms of trash over and under tarps, discarded furniture like chairs and mattresses, bonfire remains, more trash under and over tarps, etc.? I wish we knew whether a cadaver dog has ever been over that entire property. The corner where HW was found is owned by someone else, but an abandoned gravel driveway off SR 45 shows on Google Maps just a few hundred feet north of Plum Creek and while the trash and bonfires are strewn around the house and off the abandoned driveway you see on the map, the house is at the end of that gravel, overgrown and abandoned driveway:

 

[IMH]

The only thing that's bothering me about the idea of the jailhouse snitch....

One of the most compelling parts of his story, obviously, is the claim that he has pictures, but especially, imo, pics of an ID that says Rebecca.

But iirc, wasn't one of the items in the affidavit against Sports the fake ID found with her keys or whatever? Is there any way to know if that ID was Rebecca's? It's definitely not unheard of for a kid to have 2 fake IDs, but it seems unlikely (and even less likely that you'd have 2 with you but only drop 1 with your coin purse). If there were not 2, and the only one was recovered, the snitch can't have pics of an ID that says Rebecca.

I guess my assumption with things like this is a snitch type is either telling the truth or completely full of s***. But maybe not.

From a local news report about the jailhouse snitch (DH): "He said there were two discolored pieces of identification with the body, one with the name "Rebecca" on it and the other an IU campus debit card. Spierer's older sister's name is Rebecca." What this statement implies with respect to the IU campus debit card is that DH is referring to Indiana University's "CampusAccess" card. This is first and foremost a university identification card (see http://bit.ly/1VxXThX) for all IU students and employees, that also allows students (or their parents, and IU employees) to load the card with money in order to pay for food and other services while on campus (see http://cacard.indiana.edu/cacard/). I think it is safe to assume that DH described what he saw, and the reporter identified the type of card. BUT, it is interesting that in the news report it is called a "debit card," because it looks and operates first as an official IU identification card. Only someone using the card on campus would know whether there was money on it.

 

[IMH]

He does. Are we allowed to mention his relatives' names? Interestingly, I clicked on his probably sister's LinkedIn profile, and on the "People Also Viewed" section it lists CR and JW! Maybe just other websleuthers.

From USA today's article about DM: "His parents, Paul and Charlotte Brown, divorced when he was very young. His mother remarried Gerald Messel, who became Daniel's adoptive father when the boy was 3. After that, Daniel's relationship with his mother deteriorated and he found the period to be very difficult. He wound up living with his adoptive father" (see http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...dents-slaying-long-history-violence/26752185/). I've done preliminary sleuthing about his relatives, and it's possible that the owner of "Fine Print" where DM worked at the time of his arrest is owned and managed by a relative of DM who actually lives in Brown County. I stress this is a "possibility." This would explain how DM was able to secure a job after his release from prison.

 

[Yeahbabs]

Here's another map request. The GBLT circuit from Cinci, Louisville, Evansville, Bloomington, Indy, Terre Haute. This snitch said he saw Messell at a GBLT bar in Terre Haute.

If he was a regular at any of these bars maybe JMW was too.

I can make you the map, but I'm not really sure what you mean. Just a map showing those cities? Or a map of the gay bars in each city?

BTW, any thoughts on what DM would be doing in a gay bar? He seems waaaaaay too fixated on pretty young girls to set off my gaydar at all, but maybe not? Just wondering the reason because it could certainly have a variety of implications, connection wise.

 

[IMH]

One more thing about HW's murder: From media reports "There's also reason for the detectives to believe that she made it into her home that night now where she comes into contact with Messel after that is unclear right now. We do know obviously that they did come into contact we just don't know when and where," said Sgt. Durnil: see http://fox59.com/2015/04/29/investi...meline-in-hannah-wilson-murder-investigation/ and http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-in...nah-wilson-likely-made-it-home-before-murder/.

My understanding is that the reason they knew she made it inside her home was that HW's cell phone and purse were found inside of her apartment (on her bed) after her death. I do not know if there was any sign of forced entry.

In addition, according to his own stepfather and news reports, DM apparently knew and targeted HW. People Magazine, "Messel's stepfather, Gerald Messel, said the suspect recently had spoken of knowing a girl named "Hannah" from the bars that attract students from the nearby Indiana University campus, according to WTTV, and he was surprised when his stepson did not come home Thursday night after a regular outing of playing trivia games in those nightspots."

DM seemed very interested and connected to the social activities of IU students. Remember, he also had a "Sugar Daddy" account looking for that "special IU co-ed"....and DM participated in trivia challenges in bars on the IU campus.

 

[IMH]

I can make you the map, but I'm not really sure what you mean. Just a map showing those cities? Or a map of the gay bars in each city?

BTW, any thoughts on what DM would be doing in a gay bar? He seems waaaaaay too fixated on pretty young girls to set off my gaydar at all, but maybe not? Just wondering the reason because it could certainly have a variety of implications, connection wise.

Not sure why DH would have encountered DM in a gay bar. DH in his letters to the Brown County Court claims "to have met [DM] during a previous incarceration at the Indiana Department of Corrections in 1996." This correlates with news reports that stated "in 1996, [DM] was sentenced to prison time for battery with a deadly weapon after prosecutors say he beat [husband and wife victims] of Bloomington, breaking [wife's] nose and causing [husband] to lose part of his ear. [DM] then returned again and began striking [wife victim] in the head with a 2 x 4 causing a severe laceration to her head which severed an artery on her scalp...[DM] served just over three years in prison, from June 1996 to November 1999, according to the Indiana Department of Correction, and was under court supervision an additional six years. Later, [DH] claims he met [DM] in 2005 at an LGBT bar in Terre Haute, Indiana. A week later, at Night Moves in Bloomington, [DH] claims to have met [DM] again."

Another news source reported that DM "was sentenced to 8 years in prison for battery with a deadly weapon but was released after serving just 3 years."

DM could have met DH when he was incarcerated (1996-1999). Night Moves in Bloomington is a strip club/bar, and if DM met up with DH there, I'd like to know what DH was doing in Bloomington? I agree with you that DM was fixated on young pretty girls, and perhaps also thought he was a pretty smart guy, so anyone challenging his intelligence might pay a price.

 

[Ixchel13]

I can make you the map, but I'm not really sure what you mean. Just a map showing those cities? Or a map of the gay bars in each city?

BTW, any thoughts on what DM would be doing in a gay bar? He seems waaaaaay too fixated on pretty young girls to set off my gaydar at all, but maybe not? Just wondering the reason because it could certainly have a variety of implications, connection wise.

well I would guess something in between some sort of
sexual abuse in the past mixed with gay men being easy prey for all sorts of evil shenanigans.

if I had a choice, the map would be the bars in those cities, easy access to both country and interstate, etc.

Would calls to these bars be out of the question?
Vidocq is good at this....or, if they have facebook pages, we could look for trivia nights, etc. and see if any POI winners are listed.
Scrabble, euchre, any events that bring in crowds.

 

[Tr.]

Hey Tr, did you see that abandoned house on the property just north Plum Creek and SR 45 where HW was found? And the general condition of the entire property (now owned by Kneadmore Church according to GIS and tax info) in terms of trash over and under tarps, discarded furniture like chairs and mattresses, bonfire remains, more trash under and over tarps, etc.? I wish we knew whether a cadaver dog has ever been over that entire property. The corner where HW was found is owned by someone else, but an abandoned gravel driveway off SR 45 shows on Google Maps just a few hundred feet north of Plum Creek and while the trash and bonfires are strewn around the house and off the abandoned driveway you see on the map, the house is at the end of that gravel, overgrown and abandoned driveway:View attachment 89527

Yes it's all there. And to clarify my previous statement with regard to "searching all over that woods"...I was referring to Morgan Monroe and Yellowstone in general.
We walked through the church property that you refer to but we did not have dogs with us to help search.
Given what we now know about DM and JMW I think that the area deserves another much closer look. The forests are huuuuge.

 

[Yeahbabs]

When JMW's house was raided, several news outlets reported that he was awaiting a court appearance on Feb 18 in Johnson County for a felony charge of public indecency with a prior conviction.

Has anyone heard/read anything about whether that appearance did take place, and if so, what happened?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ome-searched-connection-missing-woman-n506521