IN - New Albany: Mother, two children found dead in creek

[mysteriew]

Prosecutor Keith Henderson said Friday that Brandon Clutter, 10, and Katelyn Clutter, 6 months, were drowned, but the death of their mother, Jamie Clutter, 35, remained under investigation.

Major Keith Whitlow, New Albany Police spokesman, said it may be a week or two before authorities are ready to disclose more about the case.
http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...ek-Binford-Park-New-Albany-911-homicide-audio

 

[katydid23]

Well, I have to say that as of today....and granted totally MOO....I believe they (all 3) were sedated/drugged/poisoned elsewhere (strong feeling of at home and/or some sort of husband involvement) and then the "person(s)" responsible for this went to the park and put their bodies in the creek at night which would have been Tuesday. I can see how they would not be discovered until about 5pm-ish on Wednesday. It was friggin snowing that day and cold. I do not feel any parents in their right mind would have their kids out at the park during the COLD day to have been able to "come across the bodies" and not to mention school is in session. As for people "walking" around the park, etc.. and coming across the bodies during the day (had they been placed there overnight in the dark when no one would have seen or known) it seems very unlikely IMO because of the weather that day. Cold, gloomy, snowing, not park weather for adults out for a stroll or kids playing. When the LE said they figured the bodies were not in the water for a long period of time...I would assume the night before would fall into this...granted it would be a little more than 12 hours and way less than 25 hours if somehow they were put into the creek in the middle of the night Tuesday. I think that there is still something off about the husband, the stories, the timing of when they were last seen, the fact of no signs of foul play, etc.. Something tells me inside this was a murder but staged to look like a suicide with the clothes, baby harness hanging from a tree and Bible.

The bridge is in fact a walking bridge and not cars. I would not say in any way this "creek" that is 12-18 inches deep has a current strong enough to move a 10 year old body down stream too much..or Jamie. Granted, bodies float I guess (that just gave me chills even typing it) and I would assume "drift" some but not a strong current.

I listened to the 911 calls myself and I know the man who was out with his wife thought they were manikins. I can understand ...as he then hung up and called back the second time. NO ONE EXPECTS TO COME ACROSS THE BODIES OF KIDS OR AN ADULT FOR THAT MATTER IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD CREEK. I can understand he thought he saw something, doubted what he saw, got closer then called 911 back. I would be HORRIFIED!!!!

Some of the questions I have today are was the husband totally ruled out as a suspect? Do we have any interview or audio of LE stating the "husband is not a suspect" because all I have seen so far is that he was at work. Wouldn't LE (hoping they have already) contacted husbands job, talked to his boss, checked time records, interviewed people where he was employed? He could very well be at work on time Wednesday with nothing out of the ordinary IF they had been disposed off in the creek during the night.

Someone mentioned somewhere that the water in the lungs should be tested and is it clear like bath water or creek water? The creek is NOT clean per say and yes debris, etc.. I read yesterday that the husband said they would not release the victims bodies yet for burial as they were holding for this pending investigation. How SAD they can't yet properly be laid to rest but I hope coroner gets everything they need to figure this out.

I am curious also why we have not heard from HIS parents.

I am curious also about the pastor and if he was approached to talk to media or he stepped up on his own. Was it to speak for the Clutter's because the husband and family so tight with the church, is it to promote his church & be in the spotlight or does in some way he know what happened and better to CYA from the start, act the act of non-involvement, spotlight off him, the father and the church since it's name was mentioned early on.

Does it really take 4-6 weeks or what not for toxicology reports? Ugh!

Fingerprints...I know that the husband has been "staying in a hotel" and I thought LE was investigating the apartment, cars, etc.. They would have prints of the 3 and can get prints of father...I would hope the Bible, clothes, car steering wheel, apartment door, etc, etc... have been tested for anyone besides these 4.

Computers, phones, text messages, emails...I would assume these searches are all hopefully default things LE looks at when investigating.... ?

All of this, of course, my own opinion and thoughts formed on my own based on details of the case so far and my gut.

I agree with all of your points but I have a question.

Wasn't there a witness that saw the mom and kids at 7:30 am?

 

[BeginnersLuck]

911 caller wishes he didn't make disturbing discovery

http://clarkcounty.wave3.com/news/news/155473-911-caller-wishes-he-didnt-make-disturbing-discovery

 

[Reader]

Anybody seen this one? Different storyline? Reporter error?

Clutter said the last time he saw his family was early Wednesday morning before he went to work and nothing was out of the ordinary. Clutter told us Brandon crawled into bed with him, they both said "I love you" and his wife hugged kissed him goodbye before he left. However, Clutter knew something was wrong when he came home from work later that day and they weren't home. After calling some of Jamie's friends who didn't know where she was and Clutter then decided to go to police.
http://www.wave3.com/story/21674769/new-albany-man-struggling-with-deaths-of-wife-and-2-kids

This one does say the clothing was found nearby

That story from the father is different from what the pastor previously said he told him, from BeginnersLuck.....BBM:

I am having trouble with this scenario though. From this MSM article:
http://www.wbiw.com/state/archives/2...d_in_creek.php

Quote:
Clutter's wife and kids were home before he left for work at 4:50 a.m. Wednesday, Nichols said.
"The mother was feeding the baby. His boy had heard them up and ran in there and wanted to tell his dad goodbye, he hugged him and kissed him," Nichols said. "The wife followed him to the door and he told her, 'Don't forget to lock the door.' They didn't live in a great neighborhood."

Not a big difference but I assume Nichols is saying what the father told him and can't think of a reason he would have to make something up, knowing the father would know what he's saying. So Clutter changed the story of what happened before he left the home? Why? Surely that would be burned into his mind as the last time he saw his family.

Me too....because the fact that she was sooo modest in dress, doesnt mix well with the idea that she would have taken her clothes off. Unless some sort of psychosis was involved (post partum psychosis). But by all accounts she was fine and happy.

Did we ever hear what the supposed "odd and unexplainable" events were? I think thats crucial to know and also whose Bible was it?

Good point about them being naked, especially the mother. If it was suicide I agree if might be a product of her illness. However, in murders this is often been seen as a way to degrade the victims, and stands out given their strong faith and usual modesty. That state also might be one reason the couple that found them thought they were mannequins. The removal of the clothing could also be one of the odd events mentioned. No word that I've seen on whose Bible it was.

 

[time]

The wife followed him to the door and he told her, 'Don't forget to lock the door.'

This is the kind of weird detail that makes me suspicious.

I'm sure this has been posted, but:

911 caller said Jamie Clutter's body looked 'beat up'

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130320/NEWS02/303200112/Clutter-bodies-creek-Binford-Park-New-Albany-911-homicide-audio?nclick_check=1

The man who dialed 911 after spotting three bodies in a New Albany park last week told dispatchers that the woman’s naked body looked “beat up and cut.”

 

[JaimeSommers]

This is the kind of weird detail that makes me suspicious.

I'm sure this has been posted, but:

911 caller said Jamie Clutter's body looked 'beat up'

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130320/NEWS02/303200112/Clutter-bodies-creek-Binford-Park-New-Albany-911-homicide-audio?nclick_check=1

BBM ... Agreed. There have been a few statements that have felt a little too detailed for my liking.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

This is the kind of weird detail that makes me suspicious.

I'm sure this has been posted, but:

911 caller said Jamie Clutter's body looked 'beat up'

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130320/NEWS02/303200112/Clutter-bodies-creek-Binford-Park-New-Albany-911-homicide-audio?nclick_check=1

The original link that the statement about locking the doors came from seems to be broken but I found another one.

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20130316/NEWS07/303169944/1067/NEWS07

Clutter’s wife and children were home before he left for work at 4:50 a.m. Wednesday, Nichols said.

“The mother was feeding the baby. His boy had heard them up and ran in there and wanted to tell his dad goodbye, he hugged him and kissed him,” Nichols said. “The wife followed him to the door and he told her, ‘Don’t forget to lock the door.’ ”

That statement was made by the pastor to the reporters. That whole article has some odd statements in it. So are the pastors statements the ones that are odd or is it the husbands statements that come across odd?

On the lines of leaving a body nude to degrade them, would that apply in a situation where someone was being punished because they sinned, disobeyed, etc?

 

[time]

BBM ... Agreed. There have been a few statements that have felt a little too detailed for my liking.

And, for me, some just said a bit strangely:

“I cannot think of any enemies whatsoever that anyone of us could have ever had to let a tragedy like this happen.”

Police say Jaime Clutter, 35, her 10-year-old son Brandon and six-month- old daughter Katelyn were all unclothed found dead in a creek with a bible found nearby in Binford Park Wednesday, less than a mile away from their New Albany apartment.

“I do not have a clue as to what happened,” Clutter said. “The only way I could have known for sure is if I stayed home [from work] that day.”

Shouldn't that be "to cause"? Maybe I'm nit picking but the wording struck me as odd.

And, the second BBM.... just another odd thing to say, especially the "have known for sure" part :waitasec:

http://www.whas11.com/news/local/Ma...found-dead-in-New-Albany-creek-198713081.html

 

[michmi]

911 caller wishes he didn't make disturbing discovery

http://clarkcounty.wave3.com/news/news/155473-911-caller-wishes-he-didnt-make-disturbing-discovery

This poor guy and his wife---going through that and then feeling bad because they weren't passing by there earlier in the day. I just can't imagine how upset they are.

 

[wfgodot]

While I understand the sleuthing interest in close examination of statements, I don't think that the intricacies of oral statements made to the press can tell us much. After all, how many common people are used to talking to the press - and particularly in a time of stress?

For example, in time's post above (167), I feel that saying "to cause a tragedy to happen" would be more suspicious, verb-choice-wise, than what was said: "to let a tragedy happen." It can become a subjective exercise in hearing what one wants to hear.

I did find a certain hinkiness in Clutter's “The only way I could have known for sure is if I stayed home [from work] that day.” But even that is probably due to simple differences in how we attempt to explain situations in times of great emotion.

 

[chinacat67]

Me too....because the fact that she was sooo modest in dress, doesnt mix well with the idea that she would have taken her clothes off. Unless some sort of psychosis was involved (post partum psychosis). But by all accounts she was fine and happy.

Did we ever hear what the supposed "odd and unexplainable" events were? I think thats crucial to know and also whose Bible was it?

Someone mentioned upthread a baptism aspect and I think if you are drugged and as religious as she appeared, it is not weird at all. I believe murder suicide involving PPD and that she drugged the children and herself then walked to the park.

Also the husband and pastor saying she was happy is meaningless to me, again particularly in light of religious rigor involved.

AS ALWAYS MOO.


Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk HD

 

[JaimeSommers]

The original link that the statement about locking the doors came from seems to be broken but I found another one.

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20130316/NEWS07/303169944/1067/NEWS07


That statement was made by the pastor to the reporters. That whole article has some odd statements in it. So are the pastors statements the ones that are odd or is it the husbands statements that come across odd?

On the lines of leaving a body nude to degrade them, would that apply in a situation where someone was being punished because they sinned, disobeyed, etc?

BBM ... Both, imo. The husband made a statement about not knowing what happened and (paraphrasing), "How could I know when I wasn't there?"

I'm on my phone, so it will take me a few minutes to find the quote, but I'll find it and post so you can see the actual words.

 

[JaimeSommers]

BBM ... Both, imo. The husband made a statement about not knowing what happened and (paraphrasing), "How could I know when I wasn't there?"

I'm on my phone, so it will take me a few minutes to find the quote, but I'll find it and post so you can see the actual words.

Apologies for self-quoting, but here it is:

“I do not have a clue as to what happened,” Clutter said. “The only way I could have known for sure is if I stayed home [from work] that day.”

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9056996#post9056996"]IN - New Albany: Mother, two children found dead in creek - Page 4 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[time]

The original link that the statement about locking the doors came from seems to be broken but I found another one.

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20130316/NEWS07/303169944/1067/NEWS07


That statement was made by the pastor to the reporters. That whole article has some odd statements in it. So are the pastors statements the ones that are odd or is it the husbands statements that come across odd?

On the lines of leaving a body nude to degrade them, would that apply in a situation where someone was being punished because they sinned, disobeyed, etc?

Good question as the pastor seems to be passing on details of what Michael Cutter said and about their lives - he even seems to know it was odd for her to not leave the house without telling her husband.

But in this article it is Michael Clutter speaking:

http://www.whas11.com/news/local/Ma...found-dead-in-New-Albany-creek-198713081.html

Sorry for any confusion.

Didn't the pastor or someone first say MC came there for work? I just read the pastor is saying they moved there because they visited that church about every 6 months and wanted to be closer. But doesn't MC have a female relative that lives or did live there?

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I don't remember anything about a relative living there but I could have missed it. I did read that he has relatives in Portland, IN. So far I have read in article that they moved there for work, they moved there because of the church and they moved there to be closer to his relatives. Maybe it was a combo of all three.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't think being nude rules out murder/suicide, if it was some sort of "baptism" or "cleansing" before "going to Heaven". Clothing would not be something a part of the "spiritual" world.

 

[Trident]

While I understand the sleuthing interest in close examination of statements, I don't think that the intricacies of oral statements made to the press can tell us much. After all, how many common people are used to talking to the press - and particularly in a time of stress?

For example, in time's post above (167), I feel that saying "to cause a tragedy to happen" would be more suspicious, verb-choice-wise, than what was said: "to let a tragedy happen." It can become a subjective exercise in hearing what one wants to hear.

I did find a certain hinkiness in Clutter's “The only way I could have known for sure is if I stayed home [from work] that day.” But even that is probably due to simple differences in how we attempt to explain situations in times of great emotion.

It sounds like he's reminding everyone of his alibi to me. Remember the "I was at work" alibi by Mr. Cummings?

My opinion only

 

[Trident]

I don't think being nude rules out murder/suicide, if it was some sort of "baptism" or "cleansing" before "going to Heaven". Clothing would not be something a part of the "spiritual" world.

I doubt any good Christian, or faithful churchgoer, would want to appear before God naked.

My opinion only

 

[Cherry]

I am interested in any and all life insurance policies the husband had on the wife and children.

 

[wfgodot]

Regarding the nakedness, I remember a newspaper headline from probably twenty years ago: "A chase, a wreck, and twenty naked Pentecostals." (I think the Clutters attended a Pentecostal church in their former town.) It seems the people had received word from Above, so to speak, to leave behind all of their personal possessions, including clothing, and flee their homes (in Texas I think). Eventually there was a police pursuit and a car wreck; they were all in one Pontiac. My point here is that bizarre religious beliefs may take many forms. Not saying this was the case here. Just saying.