IN - New Albany: Mother, two children found dead in creek

[BeginnersLuck]

Here's some still photos of Mr. Clutter, the pastor and others.

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps...130323&Category=NEWS02&ArtNo=303230089&Ref=PH

 

[carbuff]

I'm so sorry for the difficult time you had Carbuff. I guess as time goes on we learn more and more about the human condition.

Thanks. I'm okay now, and son seems to have survived without too much emotional damage.

One night when driving home from work with him in the back seat, crying as usual, I had a moment when I nearly steered the car into a bridge abutment at 75mph and the only reason I didn't is that I was afraid it wouldn't kill us. It caught me off guard; I knew I had been behaving a bit erratically but I didn't realize I was suicidal. Friends at work certainly didn't know. Spouse was worried about me but even now I don't think he knows how close I came to the edge.

I don't necessarily mean that this poor mother was in the same shape, but having been in those shoes, I don't find anything inherently unbelievable about the events as they've been described.

 

[marycarney]

Thanks. I'm okay now, and son seems to have survived without too much emotional damage.

One night when driving home from work with him in the back seat, crying as usual, I had a moment when I nearly steered the car into a bridge abutment at 75mph and the only reason I didn't is that I was afraid it wouldn't kill us. It caught me off guard; I knew I had been behaving a bit erratically but I didn't realize I was suicidal. Friends at work certainly didn't know. Spouse was worried about me but even now I don't think he knows how close I came to the edge.

I don't necessarily mean that this poor mother was in the same shape, but having been in those shoes, I don't find anything inherently unbelievable about the events as they've been described.

I know how hard that must have been for you to share - thank you! I'm glad you came out the 'other side' and have it behind you now.

 

[mysteriew]

New Albany father says his family's death not murder-suicide

Michael Clutter tells of strong faith, improving prospects in rejecting possibility Jaime Clutter drowned their 2 children, committed suicide
http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...er-says-his-family-s-death-not-murder-suicide

 

[marycarney]

I found it interesting the comment about her getting a job to pay for private school for the boy. As a long-time home schooler (25 years!) you must understand what a difficult decision this is for many moms. I wonder whose idea the private school was - and if the school is part of the church and the move was 'expected' as part of the church membership?

 

[SapphireSteel]

I'm leaning toward murder suicide, if only because I believe a murderous husband would not choose a public waterway to kill his wife and children.

The nakedness, the running water, the bible, all suggest some sort of ritual to me - perhaps cleansing?

The mother's body appearing "beaten" could merely be a result of her wading in and holding her children down, who would be struggling.

How tragic. Those poor little babies.

Mothers that behave like this genuinely believe they are "saving" their children. It goes way past PPD and into psychosis. This lady had probably been very ill for a long time.

 

[JaimeSommers]

New Albany father says his family's death not murder-suicide

Michael Clutter tells of strong faith, improving prospects in rejecting possibility Jaime Clutter drowned their 2 children, committed suicide
http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...er-says-his-family-s-death-not-murder-suicide

It doesn't sound like her family will be on hand for the services. Perhaps they couldn't afford the trip from Washington. It must be difficult not to be there.

Random aside: In the clip of Mr. Clutter on the couch, he reminds me of a thinner version of Doug Hutchinson, the actor married to Courtney Stodden.

 

[JaimeSommers]

I'm leaning toward murder suicide, if only because I believe a murderous husband would not choose a public waterway to kill his wife and children.

The nakedness, the running water, the bible, all suggest some sort of ritual to me - perhaps cleansing?

The mother's body appearing "beaten" could merely be a result of her wading in and holding her children down, who would be struggling.

How tragic. Those poor little babies.

Mothers that behave like this genuinely believe they are "saving" their children. It goes way past PPD and into psychosis. This lady had probably been very ill for a long time.

Has there been confirmation from LE that Mrs. Clutter was ill and that her children died at her hands?

ETA: BBM

 

[Reader]

Regarding the mother's parents attending the funeral, I thought this older man (in the red tie) might be her father, he was always standing behind Mr. Clutter and seemed to look at him intently when he was talking:

However I found pictures of her parents on their church website and they look much younger:

http://www.theworldofpraise.com/5401.html

 

[Reader]

Article, video and pictures on the link about the funeral, and finally a comment from someone in his family:

http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...oman-two-children-found-dead-New-Albany-creek

........Jerry Double, a family relative who lives south of Fort Wayne, said outside the service that it’s a tragedy that “makes no sense.”

“I can’t believe that somebody, somehow has not spoken up,” he said. If there were a large enough reward, he believes people would, he said.

Michael Clutter said he’s trying to remember all the happy times and that he wished he had even more photos and videos. “Everything was memorable, because we did absolutely everything together,” he said. “We even went to the post office to pay our bills together.”

In the video he also says something about 'trying to remember' his family...I can't believe he said that...

 

[SapphireSteel]

Has there been confirmation from LE that Mrs. Clutter was ill and that her children died at her hands?

ETA: BBM

I'm leaning toward murder suicide, if only because I believe a murderous husband would not choose a public waterway to kill his wife and children.

^^^^BBM

means it's opinion only. :moo:

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Regarding the mother's parents attending the funeral, I thought this older man (in the red tie) might be her father, he was always standing behind Mr. Clutter and seemed to look at him intently when he was talking:

However I found pictures of her parents on their church website and they look much younger:

http://www.theworldofpraise.com/5401.html

The third photo at this link shows a picture of the men carrying the casket. The gentleman next to MC looks likes kind of like JC's father.

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps...130323&Category=NEWS02&ArtNo=303230089&Ref=PH

I thought the guy in the red tie was MC's father. I saw a pic of him online unrelated to the story and they look similiar, but I beleive in the photos from my link it has the names of the men pictured and it's not him. It's strange though that the article mentions MC's mother being there along with other relatives. No specific mention of his father or her family.

 

[Reader]

Thanks, BeginnersLuck...I think it's so sad that her parents were not able to come to the services (unless that was her father), but they did say there would be a memorial at their church in Aberdeen. I wonder if Mr. Clutter will go up there for that?

In fact, this is just my personal feeling, I wish she and the children could have been buried back in WA also...that was where she was raised and all her family live, the church that she was raised in and all her friends.

 

[CanManEh]

Thanks. I'm okay now, and son seems to have survived without too much emotional damage.

One night when driving home from work with him in the back seat, crying as usual, I had a moment when I nearly steered the car into a bridge abutment at 75mph and the only reason I didn't is that I was afraid it wouldn't kill us. It caught me off guard; I knew I had been behaving a bit erratically but I didn't realize I was suicidal. Friends at work certainly didn't know. Spouse was worried about me but even now I don't think he knows how close I came to the edge.

I don't necessarily mean that this poor mother was in the same shape, but having been in those shoes, I don't find anything inherently unbelievable about the events as they've been described.

I don't say this in a rude or derogative statement towords you ...But I hope you have talked to someone and gotten help if not for you for your innocent child. Again Im not trying to be ignorant here I am thinking about safety for you and everyone around you...

 

[Bipolar Express]

I see a man looking sideways when explaining what happened to his wife and children.

What's the story again ... his wife was a very religious woman and may have been experiencing port-partum depression, or maybe it was something new called post partum psychosis (along the lines of women going nuts because they gave birth), so she walked to the park with her aged 10 years and 6 months children, stripped them naked, murdered them in the shallow, shivering creek (didn't think of the bathtub, not even for the 6 month old), stripped naked herself and then committed suicide in 12-18 inches of water ... and managed to get bloody cuts and battering injuries to her body? She flailed during her toxic drug induced suicide in water? This seems almost preposterous.

Thoughts on why the only living family member is looking sideways, to the left, when answering questions?
Family annihilators sometimes murder because they are unable to live up to the claims they make, or provide for their family (Neil Entwhistle ... promised the world and couldn't deliver).

What exactly is this man's story? Was his wife working before they moved ... who provided for the family before the move if he was out of work for 2 years? Shipyard work doesn't exactly sound like 2 years of laid off income. Did she quit her job to move and was he isolating his wife? What was the name of that guy that murdered his wife and then blew up the house with his children in it ... it strikes me a bit like this case ... another family annihilator.

Post partum psychosis isn't new. It's what can happen if post partum depression goes unchecked.

 

[Bipolar Express]

I am probably just being sensitive, but that is a weird statement, about how loudly he screamed.

No, you are right . I find it very strange also. I mean, how loud you scream or reaction to families death.,,, that's kind of private ya know?

 

[Bipolar Express]

He seems really creepy. I cannot believe that it would be considered an open and shut case of a woman murdering her 10 year old and 6 month old in a nearby, freezing water creek, and then committing suicide in 12-18 inches of water.

How does someone commit suicide in 12 inches of water again? I really don't see how this is a possibility. I also fail to understand how giving birth could cause "PPP" and post-birth "psychosis". This woman was apparently not nuts before she gave birth, so how could giving birth cause a psychosis? Childbirth does not cause psychosis ... it's a normal bodily function that does not effect the brain ... childbirth does not cause psychosis in animals either. This post partum psychosis seems to be made-up ... because women do not develop psychosis from giving birth (sounds like a 1950s psychology theory that has long been abandoned).

PPD and PPP sadly are very real. Look it up....I wish it were a myth but its simply not. I just got my Masters in psychology and I can tell you that sometimes the hormones of a woman who has recently given birth get out of wack and depression, and psychosis can occur.

 

[Bipolar Express]

Could the so-called confirmed 'sighting' at 7-7:30 am on the day this happened have been a call to the school, leaving a message that the 10 year-old would not be attending that day?

It was a Wednesday, was there school that day or was there a scheduled day off? If there was school, what stopped them from trying to contact the parents? There is no mention the school needed to contact the parents or tried.

Hypothermia is the only reason that comes to mind that makes people take their clothes off in freezing or cold weather. Can one induce hypothermia in others somehow? The cold water would then 'mess' with hypothermia being present in the first place. Jmo.

Yeah there's a name for the phenomenon of hypothermia victims taking off their clothes but I can't remember what it's called.,,,anyway, I thought of that too. The brain actually begins to tell the body it's hot, and the individuals shed clothes in attempt to get "cool". Weird, but its a real thing.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I think that is what Paula Yates was diagnosed with---the woman who drowned her 5 kids in the tub, then called the cops and sat and waited for them. She was very religious as well. But she was 'mentally ill' and needed help and her husband ignored that urgent fact.

First impression .. someone WANTS it to sound like Andrea Yates, but the injuries on her and the fact that they were all naked and she wasn't in much water makes me wonder .. going back to read more ..

Car left at home? How far was creek from home, how did she get there?

 

[MsFacetious]

I believe Carbuff was talking about something that happened several years ago.
I also believe all is well now. :seeya:

I don't say this in a rude or derogative statement towords you ...But I hope you have talked to someone and gotten help if not for you for your innocent child. Again Im not trying to be ignorant here I am thinking about safety for you and everyone around you...