IN - New Albany: Mother, two children found dead in creek

[BeginnersLuck]

BeginnersLuck, thank u for ur sensitivety. no, i have spent years in therapy as a result of what has been dubbed "religious abuse"....it is a judgemental, unforgiving religion if u r not one of them... very traumatic & scary for children...but they all believe in supernatural healing, speaking in tongues & the rapture. this is why i know she would have saught religious councel & prayer prior. Nichols, the preacher, said she had told him sunday 3-10-13, that she "had never been happier". they memorize the bible....& they believe that God will rapture them out before the end of the world. hence, this murder suicide is imossible. by all accounts, her parents, everyone...she was dedicated to her faith. they go to church daily to pray....yet she never asked for prayer. these facts are diametrically oppossed. this is fact regarding penticostals, not my opinion, the penticostals r the ones that bring poisinous snakes to church & throw them around children... they belive they may get bit, but they KNOW God will heal them...do u see my distress over thePPD suicide/murder thing?

Yuck! to what you went through as a child. I think you will like this forum as there are many here that have suffered abuse and are advocating for others. There are all kinds of threads, including those for support.

One reason why you may not be seeing much speculation concerning certain individuals is because WS's does have rules that we have to follow. There is a fine line as far as who and how far we can discuss someone. Basically, if they have not been named as a POI, or we have not been given approval by the bosses here, then family is considered a victim and WS's is a victim friendly site. There is still plenty that can be discussed though, that is not related to murder/suicide. So, please don't get discouraged with the rules. I want you to stick around.

 

[althea33161]

marycarney, no one knows anything about mike clutter's past...obviously, it was close to "the perfect murder", as there is no real evidence...on 3-15-13, he askd his landlord for his deposit back...his proclivity for showing videos of his dead children while talking about them as if nothing happened (my husband was murdered & this is NOT normal, grief-stricken behavior)...never, in his many recorded interviews has he mentioned finding who did this...i can go on. whoever killed this family has murdered before. do u think a first time killer would stage the death scene, in a public park? this was a crime meant to shame....nudity of a modest, timid woman...a bible...when penticostals pride themselves on memorizing the bible...just my view

 

[althea33161]

thanx again, BeginnersLuck! they said, "he was cooperating", "was at work that day, not the park"...under investigation...he has not been ruled out as a suspect any more than the crime as been ruled a murder/suicide...however, having said my piece about him, i will refrain after one last question. it's ok to speculate that Jaime is a murderer but not her husband? sorry! i am done...i just do not agree. she is the victim. i have birthed babies & helped people die....had loved ones murdered...given my life to the service of others as an RN, but i can not wrap my head, objectively, nor my heart, subjectively around this case, for so many intrinsic reasons...forgive me. i am so grateful to have found an outlet for these issues that have been gnawing at me since the bodies were found. it was so cold that day...w/ naked babies in the creek....a week after Tara Willenborg's horrific death at the hands of a sexual predator...2 weeks after Lisa McQuirt, mother of 5, was shot 4 times at point blank range about 20 feet in front of my son & grandaughters house, both in Clarksville, which neighbors New Albany, Indiana...so please, again, forgive me for breaking any forum rules...( i thot i read them!!!)

 

[Reader]

the local news, papers, etc. are very biased in this case. i wrote a few comments on this murder on WDRB news blog. if u don't agree with filicide/suicide due to PPD, u get ur comments deleted....first off, by all accounts, she was happier than she had ever been. PPD IS NOT a silent killer! secondly, most women who kill their children do not kill themseves. third, women almost always choose the bathtub or ocean to drown themselves, not a creek, ditch, or lake. most filicide/suicides are men! a penticostal woman would not choose to be found naked in a public place! not only is the creek shallow, but it was freezing cold that day...suppose someone drugged themselves & then layed down in 12" of almost frozen water? the minute she hit the water, she would have gasped with an intake of breath & her heart would become tachycardic, temporarily, prolonging her life. where the bodies were dumped is right where the parking lot ends; a straight shot from the enterace to the park, were someone in a car...for her to have walked to the park, in a snowstorm, carrying an infant, she would have had to travel through a wooded area, jumped a fence & crossed the creek...all without any jackets! i would venture that Brandon & Jaime both could have quoted scriptures for hours, yet she took a bible with her?! a random killer would have no reason to kill a 6mo. old infant who could not be a witness...a random killer would not transport the bodies that far, in that weather, to stage something like this...a random killer could just as easily have humiliated her w/ nakedness & mocked her religion w/ the bible inside her home...why take the risk? the most disturbing aspect of all of this to me is the overwhelming response of the public to buy into the filicide/suicide...statistically speaking, the concept is highly improbable. mike cutter? should have stayed off TV. the first i saw of him, he said, of the discovery, "it broke my heart"; "they aren't ever coming back" (declaration or lamentation?);"there were no signs that anything was wrong"....his body language & eye movement indicate he is lying; his comments are void of any emotion (sociopathic?);he immediately bought into murde/suicide (his story has now changed)...but most telling, not once did he mention anything about "catching the killer". my husband was murdered...i was a hospice nurse....his reaction, statements, and lack of a plea for any info regarding the crime, along w/ his "flat affect", are such glaring indicaters of guilt....again...the most disturbing fact: everybody is buying the filicide/suicide fabrication....human nature dictates different, as does the statistical studies regarding people who commit this type of crime. the local bias & apathy to this crime remains a mystery. maybe this Hendericks that is the prosecutor should google the tapes of Scott Peterson for comparrison? i believe mike has done this before & will again.

Welcome to the forum and WS, althea33161...great to have another local to add information and maybe answer some questions!

BBMs
For myself, I don't really accept that PPP was involved in these deaths although there was a great discussion about it, it seems that was mainly for educational purposes. I'm glad because I learned a lot also.

Now, I have a question about this condition in this case, since it seems there would be symptoms before, HOW can you diagnose it at this point, after Mrs. Clutter's death? No one seems to want to admit there were any problems, she herself said she was happy, she was caring for herself and the children well by all appearances and there is no knowledge of prior mental illnesses.
So, how could we ever find out if that was a factor?

Althea, you brought up a very good point that I don't think has been mentioned before...Mr. Clutter not demanding answers about what happened and not saying anything about 'catching the killer'.

Some of us have also been troubled and questioned his behavior and things he has said. The toxicology report and cause of death for Mrs. Clutter will help, along with the continuing LE investigation. I hope when the COD is released they will update us on their findings also.

 

[althea33161]

Could it be... she expressed fears, worries to her husband and his response was to make her believe (via a big fat guilt trip) she was just spiritually weak... that she needed more prayer but NOT to seek help from the pastor or church council. 'Maybe he told her that seeking help would be embarrassing to him and their family.

so true, fred&edna!! there r so many twisted indoctrinations that would rise to logical answers....it would all make perfect sence: "religous extremist kills family & then self"? religion was a motive because of the bible. that we can, mostly, all agree on. having been personally "beat with the bloody rags of righteousess" myself....well, suffice it to say, i would be banned from this site if my mind wandered into the different abusive ways that sanctification & judgement can be used against a soul 4 the SOLE purpose of shaming. Guilt= something u have done; Shame= something you are. right up there with some of the most powerfully destructive emotions that human beings can experience....maybe....he could not handle the religion & with her dad Bill Pink, being a pastor, ect...maybe he felt like he was being religiously abused & killing them was his only hope of freedom? see what i mean about how twisted it all gets with the penticostal factor? interesting to see if he continues going to church every day. i just do not think anybody, even a cold-blooded homicidal psychopath, could have killed that beautiful baby girl, unless they absolutely HAD to. and if they were all drugged? why kill the baby? hence, process of elimination, Watson.

 

[Reader]

You are correct in this, at least from everything I have found and read. I live right here and have been following this from the moment the sirens went blaring down my street that Wednesday before 6pm I believe it was, from the moment the police helicopters were circling my building and I was fearing for the safety of my kids and I...assuming some mass murderer was on the loose in my neighborhood. I was on all three of our main news sites website every few minutes...the whole night and into the next day. WLKY, WHAS11 AND WAVE3. The only picture showed from the VERY start was a fire truck and some LE, etc.. walking around and snow coming down. The car on the tow truck was not an initial picture. What picture IS HE TALKING ABOUT that that indicated to him it could have been them, etc.. and yes..someone else just said..did he call her phone? Guarantee if I walked in expecting someone, found car there and NO person, or something as simple as a mandatory diaper bag with an infant, YOU BET MY WOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE PHONE WITH 911!! Even if they require 24 hours for missing persons cases....YOU CALL 9-9-1-1! Yes, there was also school that Wednesday. I have not heard what school he went to but my son would have been going to the same school as Brandon. I have not heard anything from teachers about loosing a student, etc.. that aspect of loss that you often sometimes soo. I wonder if he was in school or still being home schooled..

I believe in the video made of the interview after the funeral, the reporter asks MC what has been the worse moment for him, and his answer was when he saw the pictures (he previously said LE showed him pictures at the scene and that was when he screamed). I doubt they were pictures of the victims, maybe of the harness, clothes, to see if he recognized them.

http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...en-found-dead-New-Albany-creek?nclick_check=1

 

[BeginnersLuck]

thanx again, BeginnersLuck! they said, "he was cooperating", "was at work that day, not the park"...under investigation...he has not been ruled out as a suspect any more than the crime as been ruled a murder/suicide...however, having said my piece about him, i will refrain after one last question. it's ok to speculate that Jaime is a murderer but not her husband? sorry! i am done...i just do not agree. she is the victim. i have birthed babies & helped people die....had loved ones murdered...given my life to the service of others as an RN, but i can not wrap my head, objectively, nor my heart, subjectively around this case, for so many intrinsic reasons...forgive me. i am so grateful to have found an outlet for these issues that have been gnawing at me since the bodies were found. it was so cold that day...w/ naked babies in the creek....a week after Tara Willenborg's horrific death at the hands of a sexual predator...2 weeks after Lisa McQuirt, mother of 5, was shot 4 times at point blank range about 20 feet in front of my son & grandaughters house, both in Clarksville, which neighbors New Albany, Indiana...so please, again, forgive me for breaking any forum rules...( i thot i read them!!!)

The victim friendly rule is one that was enacted for good reason. It's an across the board rule. For example, there are many high profile child abduction cases and if allowed the discussion can get out of hand and it can be very hurtful to a parent to be accused by society when their child has been taken by a perp. Sometimes you will see things get carried away on other social media sites and a mob like mentality can ensue. I've learned to appreciate the rules here for that reason. I'm usually one that is protective of the parents but I'm not having that feeling on this case.

I know I'm guilty of breaking the rules sometimes, I don't do it intentionally, it's just that sometimes you don't know. The best way to find out what can or cannot be discussed in a particular thread would be to ask the mods and let them deside if they will open up discussion of certain individuals. You can do this by clicking on the triangle in the corner above a post. Anytime you have a question or problem you can ask the mods. Members will try and help you too. I learned by experience :floorlaugh:
I'm sitting right here :fence: with this case and hoping tox reports or further info from LE will help eliminate some scenarios. I all up for talking about all possibilities for what happened here. We just have to be careful about mentioning names or outright accusing someone.

I'm really sorry about the loss of your husband. These cases are hitting close to home for you. I am in Indiana but way north of you. It's very stressful anytime something tragic happens in your community and to have multiple things in a short time period......

FYI: There is a thread here about Tara's killer. I've been trying to keep it updated.

 

[althea33161]

what mike clutter said & did: got home frome work @5; he reported FIRST, that he immediately went to the police becuz the keys 2 her car & diaper bag were there. "i knew something happened"; he leaves the apt., yet goes a round about way 2 get to the "police Station" ( reports confirm he never went); @5:15, he is now at Binford Park, & stops to see what is going on?; says cops showed him pictures of his family@ scene, minutes after they are found? FIRST, "when i saw them, it just broke my heart", he reported. police questioned him@ the park; he later called Nichols to come get him & take him 2 a hotel, BECAUSE his apartment was a crime scene, as was the car he drove to the park. they also towed Jaime's car from the apt. on Fri 3-15, in the am, he called the apt. managment, requesting his security deposit back. then later that day he goes on video for the first time. he says, "they aren't ever coming back"...this is the very first thing he says publicaly, all the while diverting his eyes down, blinking excessively, looking down to the right & left, back and forth. he is emotionless. his eyes are clear. his voice is timid. he then says, "i never saw anything..." ( indicating his wife's behavior prior to her death?) he never asks for anyone with any info, who might have seen his wife "walking to the park, in a windy snowstorm, carrying an infant, with a little boy, without coats". this was a PUBLIC PARK! it was daylight! why no official plea for anyone to come forward from the police. sounds like somebody made up their mind it was murder/suicide (bible?) immediately. does that sound like prudent investigative skills?

 

[BeginnersLuck]

what mike clutter said & did: got home frome work @5; he reported FIRST, that he immediately went to the police becuz the keys 2 her car & diaper bag were there. "i knew something happened"; he leaves the apt., yet goes a round about way 2 get to the "police Station" ( reports confirm he never went); @5:15, he is now at Binford Park, & stops to see what is going on?; says cops showed him pictures of his family@ scene, minutes after they are found? FIRST, "when i saw them, it just broke my heart", he reported. police questioned him@ the park; he later called Nichols to come get him & take him 2 a hotel, BECAUSE his apartment was a crime scene, as was the car he drove to the park. they also towed Jaime's car from the apt. on Fri 3-15, in the am, he called the apt. managment, requesting his security deposit back. then later that day he goes on video for the first time. he says, "they aren't ever coming back"...this is the very first thing he says publicaly, all the while diverting his eyes down, blinking excessively, looking down to the right & left, back and forth. he is emotionless. his eyes are clear. his voice is timid. he then says, "i never saw anything..." ( indicating his wife's behavior prior to her death?) he never asks for anyone with any info, who might have seen his wife "walking to the park, in a windy snowstorm, carrying an infant, with a little boy, without coats". this was a PUBLIC PARK! it was daylight! why no official plea for anyone to come forward from the police. sounds like somebody made up their mind it was murder/suicide (bible?) immediately. does that sound like prudent investigative skills?

BBM: I watched the video of the press conference with the prosecutor speaking several times. Have you seen it? I have faith they are looking at everything. In the presser he says they just received additional information that morning but didn't give details. Where did you get the information about no coats being found? Is that something you heard locally or was it mentioned somewhere in the new? I haven't seen that yet. That bit of information, if it can be documented IMO, is very important. I do agree with you that it would be very odd with the weather conditions that day, for her to walk to the park.

One thing that is confirmed though, is that the children drowned in that creek. So, they were still alive when they were taken there.

 

[althea33161]

there would be no post-mortem finding that could conclusively identify PPD....ALL post-partum autopsy findings would show the same concentration of hormones. i believe it to be similar to why some people become addicts, while others don't; bi-polar people have the same nuerotransmitters as everyone else; fetal alcohol syndrome can happen with minimal alcohol consumtion in some women...u know, we have the same stuff, just some of in acts/reacts differently in certain individuals. PPD is diagnosed only by syptoms manifested. she had none. PPD is a psychological disorder that is triggered by pregnancy hormones, in some women...& we all know how hard it is to get into someone's head from a psych perspective=every one is different. thought-provoking question. i suspect tox will provide little more enlightenment than, that a pharmacuetical was found common to all three. i would think forensic lab work could ID bacteria, organisms, ect. found in the babies lungs as the water from the creek versus bathtub?

 

[seattlechiquita]

New to the case/thread. I think toxicology will give us answers. So will, like althea mentions, the type of water in lungs. I feel sad about it any way it happened. May they rest in peace.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

It shouldn't be difficult to analyze the water in their lungs and compare it to the creek water. They were pretty specific saying that there was water in their lungs and they drowned in the creek. Another thing from the presser is he stated that it was confirmed and verified that they were last seen at 7-7:30 that morning. I believe verified was the word he used or something like that. He was adamant about it though and it made me wonder if they have them on video?

eta: I'm going to take back what I said about them drowning in the creek until I find the source of that information. It makes a difference where it came from.

 

[fred&edna]

so true, fred&edna!! there r so many twisted indoctrinations that would rise to logical answers....it would all make perfect sence: "religous extremist kills family & then self"? religion was a motive because of the bible. that we can, mostly, all agree on. having been personally "beat with the bloody rags of righteousess" myself....well, suffice it to say, i would be banned from this site if my mind wandered into the different abusive ways that sanctification & judgement can be used against a soul 4 the SOLE purpose of shaming. Guilt= something u have done; Shame= something you are. right up there with some of the most powerfully destructive emotions that human beings can experience....maybe....he could not handle the religion & with her dad Bill Pink, being a pastor, ect...maybe he felt like he was being religiously abused & killing them was his only hope of freedom? see what i mean about how twisted it all gets with the penticostal factor? interesting to see if he continues going to church every day. i just do not think anybody, even a cold-blooded homicidal psychopath, could have killed that beautiful baby girl, unless they absolutely HAD to. and if they were all drugged? why kill the baby? hence, process of elimination, Watson.

I live in Kentucky (not far from L-ville) and have known a few Pentecostal church members (and ex-members). Heck, I've probably known a snake-handler, too... but... nevermind! :tmi:

Most anything taken to extreme is not healthy.

I attribute a great deal of what I find odd about MC's words & behavior to his religious zealotry.

:moo:

 

[BeginnersLuck]

It was the prosecutor that said the children drowned in the creek.

http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...-homicide-investigation-drowning-Binford-Park

I had trouble with the video playing, it took a couple times to get it to work for me.

 

[Snoopster]

the local news, papers, etc. are very biased in this case. i wrote a few comments on this murder on WDRB news blog. if u don't agree with filicide/suicide due to PPD, u get ur comments deleted....first off, by all accounts, she was happier than she had ever been. PPD IS NOT a silent killer! secondly, most women who kill their children do not kill themseves. third, women almost always choose the bathtub or ocean to drown themselves, not a creek, ditch, or lake. most filicide/suicides are men! a penticostal woman would not choose to be found naked in a public place! not only is the creek shallow, but it was freezing cold that day...suppose someone drugged themselves & then layed down in 12" of almost frozen water? the minute she hit the water, she would have gasped with an intake of breath & her heart would become tachycardic, temporarily, prolonging her life. where the bodies were dumped is right where the parking lot ends; a straight shot from the enterace to the park, were someone in a car...for her to have walked to the park, in a snowstorm, carrying an infant, she would have had to travel through a wooded area, jumped a fence & crossed the creek...all without any jackets! i would venture that Brandon & Jaime both could have quoted scriptures for hours, yet she took a bible with her?! a random killer would have no reason to kill a 6mo. old infant who could not be a witness...a random killer would not transport the bodies that far, in that weather, to stage something like this...a random killer could just as easily have humiliated her w/ nakedness & mocked her religion w/ the bible inside her home...why take the risk? the most disturbing aspect of all of this to me is the overwhelming response of the public to buy into the filicide/suicide...statistically speaking, the concept is highly improbable. mike cutter? should have stayed off TV. the first i saw of him, he said, of the discovery, "it broke my heart"; "they aren't ever coming back" (declaration or lamentation?);"there were no signs that anything was wrong"....his body language & eye movement indicate he is lying; his comments are void of any emotion (sociopathic?);he immediately bought into murde/suicide (his story has now changed)...but most telling, not once did he mention anything about "catching the killer". my husband was murdered...i was a hospice nurse....his reaction, statements, and lack of a plea for any info regarding the crime, along w/ his "flat affect", are such glaring indicaters of guilt....again...the most disturbing fact: everybody is buying the filicide/suicide fabrication....human nature dictates different, as does the statistical studies regarding people who commit this type of crime. the local bias & apathy to this crime remains a mystery. maybe this Hendericks that is the prosecutor should google the tapes of Scott Peterson for comparrison? i believe mike has done this before & will again.

Welcome althea.

:welcome6:

Clearly you are frustrated, as we all are. Innocent lives have been lost, no matter whether it was murder/suicide or 'simply' murder.

I have a couple of questions for you though.
1) You stated that they had no jackets.
2) you mentioned that the dad asked for the apartment deposit back

I haven't had a chance to follow everything in detail on this case, but I was wondering if you could point me to where these points were mentioned in the media or by law enforcement.

Thanks very much.

 

[time]

what mike clutter said & did: got home frome work @5; he reported FIRST, that he immediately went to the police becuz the keys 2 her car & diaper bag were there. "i knew something happened"; he leaves the apt., yet goes a round about way 2 get to the "police Station" ( reports confirm he never went); @5:15, he is now at Binford Park, & stops to see what is going on?; says cops showed him pictures of his family@ scene, minutes after they are found? FIRST, "when i saw them, it just broke my heart", he reported. police questioned him@ the park; he later called Nichols to come get him & take him 2 a hotel, BECAUSE his apartment was a crime scene, as was the car he drove to the park. they also towed Jaime's car from the apt. on Fri 3-15, in the am, he called the apt. managment, requesting his security deposit back. then later that day he goes on video for the first time. he says, "they aren't ever coming back"...this is the very first thing he says publicaly, all the while diverting his eyes down, blinking excessively, looking down to the right & left, back and forth. he is emotionless. his eyes are clear. his voice is timid. he then says, "i never saw anything..." ( indicating his wife's behavior prior to her death?) he never asks for anyone with any info, who might have seen his wife "walking to the park, in a windy snowstorm, carrying an infant, with a little boy, without coats". this was a PUBLIC PARK! it was daylight! why no official plea for anyone to come forward from the police. sounds like somebody made up their mind it was murder/suicide (bible?) immediately. does that sound like prudent investigative skills?

Welcome and THAKK YOU muchly or your posts!

It wold take a lot of convincing to get me to believe they walked to that creek.

Are you saying Michael Clutter asked for his deposit back on the apartment a day or two after the bodies were found?

 

[Kaliste]

To clarify: We were not focusing on PPD or PPP as the likely culprit here. (I don't believe it is.)

We were simply trying to correct some of the incorrect things that were said about PPP/PPD.

I personally have a friend with no mental health issues, 3 healthy prior pregnancies and a very wanted 4th child.
She came within minutes of killing her baby girl, very recently.
If I had not been right down the street I'm not sure what would have happened...
I SAW with my own eyes a woman I would trust with MY baby... explaining to me how she was going to kill her own.

Because of that PPD/PPP has now become very personal for me.

It is important to me that people are more aware of PPD/PPP.
I couldn't let incorrect information go uncorrected on such a serious topic. :twocents:

Thank you (and the others who have been so open talking about PPD/PPA) for providing correct, vital, life saving (IMO) information. This topic is also very personal to me and I make it a point to talk about it with my mom friends because for some reason pregnancy books and OBs seem to gloss right over it.

Carbuff, my story is very similar to yours. As a first time mom who had taken all the classes, googled everything pregnancy related, scoured the depths of drama filled mom forums, made my OB regret asking "any questions?" at each visit and read every book I could get my hands on, I felt adequately prepared. My healthy gorgeous girl was born and all was well....until a few weeks later when I had the same thought while driving one night. Let me tell you, no one was more shocked and horrified than me! Over the next few days I felt increasingly distant, felt I wasn't bonding, felt id made a terrible mistake and started having terrible intrusive thoughts. Thankfully I had enough clarity of mind at that dark (and uncontrollable) time to get help but suffered and risked my child's safety for days because I wasn't aware or how truly real and terrible PPD/PPA can be.

For those few days I felt so much guilt and shame, which only made things worse. I had moments of "I should just put my baby down, go outside and call 911" but thought they would think I was crazy, have me committed or take away my baby forever. I thought (irrationally) that my amazingly supportive, bright, loving husband would hate me and take her away. It breaks my heart that so many other women have dealt with or will deal with this. I had fabulous medical care and tons of support but not one person or book prepared me for that hell...and this was only 3 years ago!

I'm sorry to ramble on about this and in no way assume this has anything to do with this case, it's just extremely healing to talk about it.

 

[michmi]

cleo612, having been a women's health nurse, and experienced PPD first-hand many times, i can tell u...it IS NOT a silent affliction...one of the most universal signs being uncontrollable outburst of crying...also, i was raised penticostal...they all believe in supernatural healing & the rapture....so why did she not request prayer? goes to church DAILY, but doesn't request prayer? she would not have committed filicide/suicide out of some religious fear of Armageddan...these speculation do not support her fierce religious beliefs...she believed that her God would deliver her from evil. again, please, PPD is not a SILENT affliction...there is just no way this theory holds water if she was asymptomatic

Welcome!!! Glad to have you! You're not alone, I've had issues with this case also.

You can also help us with the religious aspect too--a lot of us don't have any direct experience with a church like theirs. Again, glad you're here with us!!!:seeya:

 

[michmi]

it's ok to speculate that Jaime is a murderer but not her husband?

THANK YOU! I've had a lot of problems with the widespread assumption that she killed her children but there is some aversion on the part of the majority to contemplate the possibility that she didn't do this. The information out there is pretty consistent, so why are people so ready to say this mom is the one who did this?

 

[seattlechiquita]

To all moms here who have talked about PPP/PPD, hugs, love, and bravo to you. The more this is talked about, the more the stigma goes away, and the more people can seek help. :grouphug: