IN - New Albany: Mother, two children found dead in creek

[mysteriew]

On Google Books there's a book called Introduction to Criminal Investigation
edited by Michael Lee Birzer, Cliff Roberson. Page 231 at the bottom starts a section on Water Death. On page 232 it talks about abrasions and lacerations. You can't copy paste so I'll just paraphrase. It says they may be present, but are likely underwater injuries. It lists parts of the body where they're natural, and the parts include fingers and hands.

Here's the link. Hopefully it will take to the page. I haven't linked from Google Books before so I don't know if it will work.

http://books.google.com/books?id=eg...accidental drowning hands lacerations&f=false

IMO this one is talking about drowning in deeper water. Like where the body would be rolling and turning in the water with the current. Not sure how much it applies here in such shallow water.

Also need to take into consideration that they were in the water a relatively short time. (I know most of the day, but much less than most drowning victims who may be in the water for days or weeks.)

Also with the lower temps there would be less decomposition to soften the skin.

 

[fred&edna]

I wonder how far the bodies drifted from the point of entry? I want to think their bodies weren't too far from where the clothing & baby carrier were located but I could be wrong.

 

[The Cheese]

A southern Indiana coroner said the deaths of a woman and her two children whose nude bodies were found last month in a shallow creek are unlike any case she's worked on and that officials may never know for certain how the trio died.

Floyd County Coroner Leslie Knable said that "short of a big break," the deaths of 35-year-old Jaime Clutter, 10-year-old Brandon and 6-month-old Katelyn may remain a mystery.

Knable made her comments Thursday, a day after Prosecutor Keith Henderson announced he would convene a grand jury to investigate the Clutters' deaths because he had not received any updates from police since mid-March.

snipped


<modsnip>

"He has said he'll never accept it. He said he wants to, he uses the words, 'Clear my wife's name. I want to clear my wife's name,'" Knable said.

She said she speaks nearly every day to Michael Clutter

http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130426/NEWS/130429686/-1/LIVING

BBM. Michael touched my heart. Out of respect for Michael, Jaime, Katelyn, and Brandon, I'm not going to post any more about my previous theory.

Unless further information comes out, I'm going with a tragic accident.

Rest in peace, Jaime, Katelyn, and Brandon. Prayers for Michael.

 

[time]

Thanks for the article Cheese... although I have to say I have no idea how this could be just a tragic accident or why you'd choose to believe that over a possible murder (and, I don't really think MC is still my suspect)

 

[The Cheese]

Thanks for the article Cheese... although I have to say I have no idea how this could be just a tragic accident or why you'd choose to believe that over a possible murder (and, I don't really think MC is still my suspect)

It's the best I can do with the information currently available.

 

[Reader]

Thanks, everyone, for all your great posts and ideas on case...I can't believe we don't have answers yet. Very glad the DA is going to have a grand jury looking at the evidence.

I'm wondering if a forensic pathologist was brought in to study the bodies/case and try to figure out what happened.

Still, none of the facts we have so far make sense to me or prove to my satisfaction that Jaime alone was responsible.

This is such a sad case for this mother and two beautiful children to lose their lives and we don't know for sure why or how. IMO

 

[concernedmother]

Has the toxicology reports came back yet ? Im wondering if this could have been a poisoning?

 

[MissJ]

Something doesn't seem right about this case to me. I just don't see the murder-suicide and I don't see the husband involved. But something is wrong with this picture. JMO

 

[concernedmother]

The only thing I can think of for murder/ suicide is she poisoned all of them and chose for them to die naked for whatever reason in that creek. This is a very bizarre case and sad to think there may never be answers. It seems if the husband was involved he wouldnt keep screaming for someone to look for answers and that she wouldnt do this to herself and the kids. The way things stand right now it would be an easy way out for him and he would be staying quiet. so I dont think at this point he did anything. But what would be the motive for someone else? There doesnt seem to be any trama or signs of violence or rape or anything like that.

 

[concernedmother]

I wonder if they tested the water in their lungs to see if it was the creek water? Maybe the kids were drown in the bathtub and placed in the creek? I just dont know what to think.

 

[mysteriew]

A southern Indiana coroner said the deaths of a woman and her two children whose nude bodies were found last month in a shallow creek are unlike any case she's worked on and that officials may never know for certain how the trio died.

Floyd County Coroner Leslie Knable said that "short of a big break," the deaths of 35-year-old Jaime Clutter, 10-year-old Brandon and 6-month-old Katelyn may remain a mystery.

Knable made her comments Thursday, a day after Prosecutor Keith Henderson announced he would convene a grand jury to investigate the Clutters' deaths because he had not received any updates from police since mid-March.

snipped

Knable told WLKY-TV she's still waiting for the complete autopsy reports before signing the Clutters' death certificates. She said she expects the cause of death ruling will be consistent with drowning for all three but doubts whether investigators will ever have a definitive cause of death on any of the Clutters.

Knable said Jaime Clutter had some cuts and bruises on her body, but they weren't life-threatening and were likely caused from being in the creek.

As for the Clutters' manner of death — homicide, suicide, accident or something else — she said that may never be known, although investigators are still working on the case.

"Unless there's a big break in this case, it's going to be undetermined," she said. "... I don't mind saying I'm still confused on this one."

snipped

Investigators initially said it was possible the Clutters' deaths were a murder-suicide — a possibility they reiterated Wednesday.

Knable said she informally ran that scenario by a national drowning expert, who called that unlikely.

"She said, statistically, the chance this mother did this is almost zero. Of course, there's a first time for everything," Knable said.

Prosecutors have said that Michael Clutter, Jaime's husband and the father of the two children, has been cooperative and there is no evidence he was present when the deaths occurred.

snipped

"He has said he'll never accept it. He said he wants to, he uses the words, 'Clear my wife's name. I want to clear my wife's name,'" Knable said.

She said she speaks nearly every day to Michael Clutter

http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130426/NEWS/130429686/-1/LIVING

BBM. Michael touched my heart. Out of respect for Michael, Jaime, Katelyn, and Brandon, I'm not going to post any more about my previous theory.

Unless further information comes out, I'm going with a tragic accident.

Rest in peace, Jaime, Katelyn, and Brandon. Prayers for Michael.

For the coroner to say she is completely puzzled by the deaths is unusual to say the least. However with the politics I sense in the area, I have some concerns.

 

[Reader]

Video interview w/Michael with this article

The police chief Sherri Knight says they have still not received the toxicology report, but were notified it was ready Wednesday afternoon. That occurred only after a WDRB News reporter called the coroner to confirm it was ready.

snipped

Clutter says he noticed deep cuts on his wife's hands, bruises on her arms and says police asked him specific questions about certain weapons."They asked me if I had guns, Chinese throwing stars, a sword or a knives," he said.

Police gave him this explanation for his wife's injuries "that it was because of the environment but not life threatening."

Police told him some of her injuries might have been result of the rocky creek bed. Chief Knight says there's no indication weapons were involved.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/22071495/mystery-still-shrouds-deaths-of-woman-children-found-in-creek

BBM - 'deep cuts' on her hands sounds like defensive wounds to me....

 

[michmi]

Well definitely they need to find an expert medical examiner to take a look at this case. The lack of answers is not satisfactory at all.

 

[wfgodot]

The term "botched investigation" is hanging in the air.

Quoting self.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I'm glad the bodies were not cremated. I am also very glad that there will be a grand jury investigation. I knew there was some reason why I liked that prosecutor. I got the impression he doesn't mess around.

One of the articles said that the tox was back but it wasn't typed up yet and then there was the statement from the ME??? that it was doubtful that the tox would reveal the answers to their deaths.

Hendricks stated there was confirmation that the 3 were seen that morning. I would love to know where they were seen but that bit of info may be something they won't release. It would be interesting to know if they were seen talking to someone or getting in a vehicle.

There really would be no reason for them to go to the park in that cold, nasty weather. I wonder if LE even pulled surveillance video from the entire area. If they didn't, that really ticks me off.

Tox will only reveal what you test for, so if any odd substance was used that's not tested for, then it's not going to show up.

Since the experts have stated that the murder/suicide theory is highly unlikely and IMO, this being some kind of accident is even less likely, then that leaves homicide.

It was either targeted or it was random. This means there may be a killer loose on the streets. The case needs to be pursued until they find the answer. I hate to see any more time go by without calling in an outside source that has more experience.

 

[time]

Well said BL. And, wfgodot, you could be right that this was a botched investigation. I don't know what to think except I'm not having any confidence in the LE involved in this case.

 

[time]

I find this strange (the article is from April 4):

Michael Clutter's mother, Rosemary Valentine of Portland, Ind., told The Associated Press on Thursday that investigators continue to phone her son with theories.

"They come up with so many different stories every time they call him, except for the coroner down there," she said.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2013/04/indiana_police_still_unsure_ho.html

 

[time]

I couldn't find where this interview with the prosecutor was posted... sorry if this is a duplicate shown on another news channel.

Prosecutor: Grand jury to investigate deaths of mother and children
http://www.wave3.com/category/240203/video-landing-page?clipId=8807914&autostart=true

 

[concernedmother]

I know this is far out but if they prosecutor cant even get an update from LE and he sounds kind of disgusted by it enough to turn it over to a GJ, makes me wonder if perhaps a LE person did something to them.Perhaps a dirty cop or a coverup. It just seems way off for them not to keep the prosecutor updated.

 

[time]

I know this is far out but if they prosecutor cant even get an update from LE and he sounds kind of disgusted by it enough to turn it over to a GJ, makes me wonder if perhaps a LE person did something to them.

Or covering up for someone - I had those thoughts too, thanks for relaying yours. I can't really tell but the police behavior seems really really odd to me. No update to the DA, won't respond to calls from the media (we have a right to know), and they are calling the husband a bunch with all kinds of theories? Plus, an April 4 article said they still needed to interview people from their last state of residence. I wonder if they have done that now, but even on April 4, wouldn't three weeks have passed?