IN - New Albany: Mother, two children found dead in creek

[Bipolar Express]

I have heard of cuts and abrasions on drowning victims from rivers and streams before. But I have always thought it happened when they bounced around underwater, being thrashed around.

But how does that happen in 18 inch deep water?

IMO, it doesn't. Unless there was a struggle.

 

[marycarney]

BUT she could very well have wounds inflicted by the ten year old in his struggle to stay alive.

 

[time]

Honestly, I still think they should be able to discern cuts from the creek versus cuts from an object sharp like a knife and possible defensive wounds verus other wounds. Let alone tell if they are pre or post mortem. I don't really see how the kid could have caused those kinds of wounds in a struggle, possibly if Jamie's hands were underwater holding him down ... but then again, these would LOOK like those kinds of wounds and you might think she had scratches from him or he had defensive wounds.

I know there are gray areas, but the info on the wounds is pretty skimpy so far.... not enough to convince me (Isn't it the LE who said they could have occurred in the creek not the ME/pathologist/coroner?).

 

[michmi]

I'm still bothered by the very clear information from the couple who called 911 saying she looked beat up and then the LE stating nobody had injuries. Now we're back to injuries, but LE says from the creek bed.

 

[cindysue]

I know this is prob the craziest theory possible, but what if someone was jealous of jamie and the kids. Someone could have wanted MC 's full attention? Very unlikely I'm guessing.

 

[wfgodot]

Still awaiting info on what those "odd, unexplainable" events around the apartment complex turn out to have been. Sounded not-unapocalyptic - considering the source.

 

[coastal]

If Jamie had been bruised and cut by rocks in the creek, her children should also have similar injuries, since they were found with her. No one has suggested the children had visible injuries, that I know of. Also, injuries made to a body after death are, and look, very different from injuries suffered by a living person.

The coroner knows more than she has said about these deaths, IMO.

 

[fred&edna]

BUT she could very well have wounds inflicted by the ten year old in his struggle to stay alive.

Bruises, definitely so... and maybe scratches. But, cuts seem more difficult... especially cuts deep enough to warrant questions about "throwing stars". jmo

 

[The Cheese]

If Jamie had been bruised and cut by rocks in the creek, her children should also have similar injuries, since they were found with her. No one has suggested the children had visible injuries, that I know of. Also, injuries made to a body after death are, and look, very different from injuries suffered by a living person.

The coroner knows more than she has said about these deaths, IMO.

All of them had injuries.

Southern Indiana officials continue investigating the deaths of a mother and two children whose bodies were found Wednesday in a creek that winds through Binford Park.

Floyd County Coroner Leslie Knable said Friday that autopsy results showed they suffered injuries consistent with having been in water.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

All of them had injuries.

Southern Indiana officials continue investigating the deaths of a mother and two children whose bodies were found Wednesday in a creek that winds through Binford Park.

Floyd County Coroner Leslie Knable said Friday that autopsy results showed they suffered injuries consistent with having been in water.

I would like to know what the injuries are that are consistent with being in water. They were not in the water for days, weeks or months. They were not in a deep river or flowing river or lake where their bodies would have sunk and resurfaced and bounced around on other objects. They were not in a body of water where fish etc., would have contributed to any signs of injury.

Is this the same coroner that had to consult with a expert in drowning to come to the conclusion that the murder/suicide theory was very unlikely?

I want to know what injuries the coroner is referring to. There is a huge difference between being in a shallow stream and a larger body of water.

eta: There is not a boatload of drowning deaths in shallow water to compare this to. I tried to find some. I'm not sure if the coroner just opened her text book to drowning deaths and made her statement or what.

 

[mysteriew]

Anybody know when the GJ is to convene?

 

[fred&edna]

Anybody know when the GJ is to convene?

I don't have a link handy but I thought one of the news reporters said late summer (and I remember thinking... I wish it would be sooner!) I'll try to find the link.

Well, this isn't exactly what I was looking for... however, it appears the info was gleaned from WLKY

http://www.i1053online.com/thursday.htm

"The grand jury would likely gather in late summer, which means anyone who is a witness or investigator would be called in to give their testimony. The hope is to find a suspect through the grand jury."

 

[Bipolar Express]

I still think that if all questions around the cuts that have been asked here are answered....I think it will lead to the right direction. But no one really is saying too much about them. I think this is a mistake.

 

[lillygator]

this case is so odd. I would like to know more about those injuries.

 

[Reader]

Maybe we've expected too much of the coroner in answering questions...IN does not require a medical degree or much else except they be eligible to run for election, and then receive some training after election:

What are the requirements to become a coroner?

As with all other constitutionally elected officers, one need to be an elector of the county, and a resident for one year in order to be elected. The coroner does not perform autopsies (unless he or she is also a board-certified pathologist).

The coroner is an administrator above all else. By living locally and being elected, the corner is answerable to the people. The coroner has innumerable experts to call upon to help them render a decision. The Indiana State Coroners Training Board has been established and funded to provide 40 hours of basic training and 16 hours of annual continuing education for coroners to assist them in the administration of their duties, and establish mandatory training leading to certification.

http://www.in.gov/ctb/2328.htm#requirements

I sure wish this one had called on some of those 'innumerable experts' to investigate this case. Toxicology and the autopsy don't seem to have given her many answers. When 3 deaths are unlike any you've ever seen, it seems she would have wanted to call in all the help available.

I just checked and nothing new has been released by the coroner that I can find.

 

[Reader]

I find this strange (the article is from April 4):

Michael Clutter's mother, Rosemary Valentine of Portland, Ind., told The Associated Press on Thursday that investigators continue to phone her son with theories.

"They come up with so many different stories every time they call him, except for the coroner down there," she said.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2013/04/indiana_police_still_unsure_ho.html

Reminds me of LE playing 'good cop/bad cop'...the LE is pushing him and the coroner is nice to him.

My first thought, I hate to say it, was that the minister claimed he saw them to alibi MC. That guy bothers me. Who knows maybe he saw her because she and the kids were at her house or he was at hers. Maybe it's unfair of me to say those things, just a gut feeling about that guy.

I don't have a link handy but I thought one of the news reporters said late summer (and I remember thinking... I wish it would be sooner!) I'll try to find the link.

Well, this isn't exactly what I was looking for... however, it appears the info was gleaned from WLKY

http://www.i1053online.com/thursday.htm

"The grand jury would likely gather in late summer, which means anyone who is a witness or investigator would be called in to give their testimony. The hope is to find a suspect through the grand jury."

I wonder if the pastor will be called to testify before the GJ since he gave out so much information at first about what Mr. Clutter told him and what he himself observed about the couple.

Also hope that Jaime's parents will be called to tell about her general physical and mental health and their contacts with her after the move to IN.

 

[Bipolar Express]

Hmm. Just checking in to see if anything "new" on the case. It bothers me so much because I just do NOT see murder/suicide here. Just like the WM3 case.....someone is still out there.

 

[fred&edna]

http://newsandtribune.com/local/x730861736/Floyd-coroner-Deaths-of-mom-2-kids-may-remain-mystery

This article says "Knable says bruises on mother’s body likely came from being in a creek"
There's no blood flowing after death so, I didn't think bruising was possible. I'm confused.

 

[sophiebelle]

I saw in one post that the mother had cuts and bruises. I wondered then if the cuts were scratches. I can't imagine if she was drowning that older child, that he wouldn't fight back. I didn't see that they'd been drugged either. Even if he was told to get in the water and lay down, it's human nature to struggle to breathe. If the kids were held under the water, there should be bruises from hands. I have rolled all this around in my head and don't see it! We are only privy to bits and pieces I'm sure.

 

[sophiebelle]

Maybe we've expected too much of the coroner in answering questions...IN does not require a medical degree or much else except they be eligible to run for election, and then receive some training after election:



http://www.in.gov/ctb/2328.htm#requirements

I sure wish this one had called on some of those 'innumerable experts' to investigate this case. Toxicology and the autopsy don't seem to have given her many answers. When 3 deaths are unlike any you've ever seen, it seems she would have wanted to call in all the help available.

I just checked and nothing new has been released by the coroner that I can find.

I guess until they finish with this altogether, we won't know, and may not even then. But I agree.
PS: Love your plantation house pic!