In Retrospect-Kronk Believes He Saw Skull In August

[seagull65]

also possible, Imbackon. And good analogy! I know the feeling exactly

Though I still have to wonder how no one else, with all the people looking and all the people all over that neighborhood, ever found the remains, etc.

 

[lizzysf]

Kronk's story of discovery adds up as well to me as Casey's story of dropping Caylee off at Sawgrass. He had profit in mind and took the time to figure out how to make that work for himself, before he insisted that LE double check that area. He knew that he had found the remains earlier. Kronk is low-life and not very smart IMO. It not only has back-fired on him and he withdrew, but now has thrown a monkey wrench into the SA's case, and upon himself. The defense is going to try to implicate him...possibly in moving the body or having knowledge? He IS the weakest link. Secondary to LE not following up on the ridiculous "leads". IMO.

 

[Imbackon]

also possible, Imbackon. And good analogy! I know the feeling exactly

Though I still have to wonder how no one else, with all the people looking and all the people all over that neighborhood, ever found the remains, etc.

I know why.
Saying the body was just below the curb, and just inside the tree line, is a little bit like saying "just a little bit pregnant"
Also, what does a Minimum of water mean? 6 inches? how high is a childs prone body, especially one losing skin and blood and tissue each day that goes by?

The point is the body was not found, because we are talking about a few square feet that is in a big woods and this woods was just one woods out of many woods in the greater Orlando area, and folks were putting the search emphasis on PING AREAS remember. There was also RIVERS AND STREAMS AND LAKES and GARBAGE DUMPS and BACK YARDS and basically the entire country and even parts of Puerto Rico according to the A's for which to search for Caylee.
She was NOT IN SITE and no one was playing or hiking thru this woods especially after that stupid flooding.

ETA, what now seems like a no brainer was actually a MIRACLE that that tiny body was found and I for one and very thankful that MR. Krunk did the right thing and helped bring Caylee out of there. There are many many bodies out there that unfortunately will never be found, especially those of young children sadly enough.

 

[seagull65]

You're sweet, Mitzi.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

To all you folks who find RK's discovery hinky, I would just like to share my thoughts.

Have you ever finally decided to go to the doctor for that darn sore throat, and you swear you start questioning whether you should be wasting the doctor's time, cause you feel better already just sitting there in the waiting room?

He was UNSURE OF HIMSELF. Unsure whether he was wasting LE resources on this. But it kept gnawing at him so he called again, and once again followed up on it.
I personally have never been "pushy" with a cop and maybe he felt weird to be pushy too so didn't want to press or confront him. And maybe he wasn't too fond of the idea of going into the woods too much further either.
Afterall the cop should know what he's doing right?

ETA, Sorry Expecting Unicorns. I type slow and see that I pretty much just expressed the same thoughts you wrote!

Ahhhhh, but you did it so much better!! :blowkiss:

 

[wonders]

Wudge, Respectfully, once again I have to question your grasp of the facts in this case in order to state your opinions.

Kronk's boss was not a neighbor of the Anthony's. Disproven long ago, it's in the Myths thread. And you're using it as a basis to discredit him.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Myth Busters and Facts NO DISCUSSION NO DISCUSSION


And what does him being a former bounty hunter have to do with anything? And have you read the facts behind the so-called "kidnapping?" The charges were dropped when the true facts came to light. You seem to be big on facts, and your disregarding them in Kronk's case really makes me wonder.


I - and many others - find Kronk's story and actions absolutely believable. If you had been here at Ground Zero when all of this was happening, you would have seen the thousands of people that spent their own time and money searching for little Caylee. On their own, in groups and with TES.

People were driven to find this girl, put her killer behind bars and shut the Anthony's up.

We all thank the heavens above that KRONK was driven and persistent enough to follow through with something he saw months before - when the area was flooded - and find what was left of Caylee once the water had receded and you could actually walk in to where she was thrown.

Thank you Muzikman.
I also think RK's intentions were good.
IMVHO if your a dentist you are going to notice peoples teeth, if your a mechanic your going to notice a problem vehicle Etc, Etc. So I think if you have been a bounty hunter you will just use the skills you have learned automatically.
I could care less that people think "hinky" things about RK. The bottom line is THANKS to ROY KRONK poor little CAYLEE WAS found with things that point to NO ONE BUT KC.

 

[Imbackon]

quote Musikman
People were driven to find this girl, put her killer behind bars and shut the Anthony's up.

Hey Musik, what do you mean "were" driven. I'm still waiting! LOL
Put KC behind bars
Shut the Anthony's up

 

[The World According]

It is a huge mess that they fired Kronk. The defense is going to say, the county fired him because they didn't believe him about his injuries, if his employer doesn't trust him, how can you. This is not good at all. They should have kept him on they payroll, and even delayed his worker's comp injuries investigation, at least until after the trial rather than throw this wrench in the states case. Bad decision, very short sited in my opinion. They are thinking only of his workers comp costs, but should be thinking much much bigger picture, how much the case is costing the state to prosecute. Ten minute attention span problem rearing its ugly head again.

For goodness sake, even in the worst case , even if it is true that he exaggerated his injuries,( which any one over forty can tell you that neck and back injuries can be very protracted and severe and many of the causes do not show up on x rays, which is why the injuries being chronic is a rather elusive thing to prove or disprove, and thus you see insurance companies settle out of court on these matters, every day), some things in life are a necessary evil, like the bad guys we pay to be in the witness protection plan in order to get their testimony against the bigger fish. I don't care if they thought he was milking his injury or not, they should have bit the bullet a while longer because of the millions of dollars this case has cost the good taxpayers. I think the decision will be reversed, and he will get his job back and then some. Meanwhile, the man is volunteering to help our kids returning from the war to readjust to civilian life. Good lord, I will write the guy a check! I'd like to know what some of you on here that are bashing him so very hard, with a poor understanding of the facts, do in your community that you can point to that makes you morally superior to him. He is not the one the grand jury indited here! Let's just get the baseline clear on that. Don't shoot the messenger.:banghead:

 

[christee]

I believe without a doubt that Caylees remains were covered/hidden by water during searches conducted where she was found.
I also believe this pic shows the vegetation (palmettos?) with the brown leaves either covered in dry mud or dead from being underwater too long:

If the leaves were covered by water or mud, then it's safe to say Caylee prob was also.

 

[Muzikman]

That's not respectful, actually.

Actually it is.

And oddly, none of those thousands found the remains right there barely in the treeline off the curb of Suburban. So were the remains there yet?

Sure they were there. They were further than "barely in the treeline off the curb." And it you go look at it, it's more or less a gully, not odd at all. As for the thousands of searchers, there was around 30 square miles to look through.

Don't you think Wudge also wants the killer put behind bars?

Based on his posts, he does not seem to want to see Casey convicted. So, no.

You didn't mean to say "we all", right? But if it did happen that way, Mr. K has my appreciation.

I did mean to say "We." Meaning all of the thousands of searchers that spent their own time and money looking.

But the remains were barely into the treeline, barely lower than curb level in terms of depth, not back in the swamp, just in minimal water at the water's highest point, right?

See above. It's a gulley, much lower than the curb line. Tossed back in as far as Casey could throw her from the water's edge - which at that time was lower than it was in August on.

Well, as for me, I say thanks to Wudge and others for posting honestly and asking questions and wanting to know the truth whatever it may be, without partiality. Personally I found it a bit absurd that more investigation wasn't done into RK and KW and some others, just as a matter of routine investigation, no accusation toward any of them. MOO

My Answers bolded in red above.

I have no problem with investigating and asking questions after doing research, as long as the facts are straight and there is no agenda involved.

 

[Friday]

Here's a worrisome issue that I haven't seen discussed yet....

Suppose for a moment that someone employed at the jail (Kronk's girlfriend, or even a janitor perhaps) overheard KC tell JB where she thought the "the real killer" might have put Caylee's remains. (I'm assurming KC wouldn't admit to JB that she put Caylee there herself).

Now suppose that conversation between KC and JB was ultimately relayed to Kronk by his girlfriend-who-heard-it-from-the-janitor, and as a result, RK searched that location and discovered Caylee's remains.

Here's the worrisome question: If the above were true, and if RK were to suddenly admit the above information is what really led him to Caylee's remains, would the prosecution still be able to use any evidence discovered with Caylee's remains against Casey--like the duct tape brand that matches what was on the gas can, for example? Or, would the defense be able to claim that Caylee's remains were discovered as a result of a violation of attorney-client priviledge by OC jail employees, and therefore any incriminating evidence against Casey found with the remains is "fruit of the poisoned tree?" Ergo, inadmissable?

If this has already been discussed, just steer me to the thread if you can. LOL.

 

[lizzysf]

Thank you Muzikman.
I also think RK's intentions were good.
IMVHO if your a dentist you are going to notice peoples teeth, if your a mechanic your going to notice a problem vehicle Etc, Etc. So I think if you have been a bounty hunter you will just use the skills you have learned automatically.
I could care less that people think "hinky" things about RK. The bottom line is THANKS to ROY KRONK poor little CAYLEE WAS found with things that point to NO ONE BUT KC.

Hinky feelings about Kronk or not...I am so glad her body was found. That does not excuse the questions in my mind in how "In Retrospect" he thought he saw a skull in August (blocks away from the Anthony house and being aware of the search for Caylee Anthony in process) but does not insist that LE actually look at it until December...under ANY environmental conditions, why would he wait? He would have trounced right in there, despite LE's fear of water/snakes and confirmed or cleared it. C'mon folks...as much as I want Kronk to just be a hero finding the body...it just ain't adding up. Innocent of any crime, but guilty of personal motives. Which did not pan out when suspicion put him on the hot seat and his personal BS became the topic of interest. Profit potential gone. He fades away...

 

[Muzikman]

Here's a worrisome issue that I haven't seen discussed yet....

Suppose for a moment that someone employed at the jail (Kronk's girlfriend, or even a janitor perhaps) overheard KC tell JB where she thought the "the real killer" might have put Caylee's remains. (I'm assurming KC wouldn't admit to JB that she put Caylee there herself).

Now suppose that conversation between KC and JB was ultimately relayed to Kronk by his girlfriend-who-heard-it-from-the-janitor, and as a result, RK searched that location and discovered Caylee's remains.

Here's the worrisome question: If the above were true, and if RK were to suddenly admit the above information is what really led him to Caylee's remains, would the prosecution still be able to use any evidence discovered with Caylee's remains against Casey--like the duct tape brand that matches what was on the gas can, for example? Or, would the defense be able to claim that Caylee's remains were discovered as a result of a violation of attorney-client priviledge by OC jail employees, and therefore any incriminating evidence against Casey found with the remains is "fruit of the poisoned tree?" Ergo, inadmissable?

If this has already been discussed, just steer me to the thread if you can. LOL.

I think FaeFrost had a great post a couple pages back, discussing the legal aspects of Casey telling Baez where the body was. He would have to admit that that particular conversation had taken place. Was a really good post, worth going back and finding.

 

[cecybeans]

IMO no matter who found the body, the defense in this case would call the entire thing into question; they have no reasonable alternative but to cast aspersions in every direction hoping something will stick and they change their direction rather like the weather. I agree that perhaps RK was acting as a pawn for someone with inside information. It could have been through a prison grapevine that resulted from overhearing privileged information or it could have been leaked by a family member who wanted Caylee's remains returned. It doesn't really matter, imo. RK knew before the storm blew in. Before KC was bailed out. After that, the area was closed to other formal searches up to and including when TES was there, so there were not thousands of people searching that specific spot. Whomever it was that passed the inside information to RK, if that is how he came to look there, I really and truly don't care. They were obviously more interested in recovering Caylee's poor little remains than in playing it by the book. I think that makes them a good person, risking all that to locate Caylee so her family could bury her, so her little bones stopped being ravaged by the elements and scavenging animals. I would certainly be grateful if I was in that position and somebody did that for a grandchild of mine.

If the remains had been that easy to find, then why couldn't DC and Hoover locate them, with very specific information on location, I might add?

I think it's dangerous to vilify Good Samaritans who have absolutely nothing to gain from acts like this. To put them on the same level of suspicion as the person who is charged with the crime, a charge based on a multitude of behavioral and other evidence, is to discourage others from doing the same good deeds going forward. We live in a country that is so desensitized to crime that kids are beaten to death and raped while onlookers do nothing. I'm sure that LE investigated this man to their satisfaction; to assume otherwise without cause at this point reflects personal bias.

I'd much rather concentrate on the actual crime here and not ancillary activities. The crime is that a baby died and was tossed like trash into the woods. We have not seen any evidence that points away from the Anthony family home so far, regardless of Herculean efforts the defense has made to make it seem so. And if we insist on raking witnesses, friends, acquaintances and others through the coals in a search to assign blame to anyone who crosses paths with this family, we should maintain at least that level of suspicion for those who had much more to gain from this crime or have actively worked to obstruct the investigation.

So I just don't care if it was LE who wanted the body found or a family member who wanted the body found or Caylee speaking from beyond the grave - it's obvious from the botanical evidence that she was undisturbed until RK persisted and called LE one more time on December 11. I don't want to shoot the messenger here.

 

[lizzysf]

I think FaeFrost had a great post a couple pages back, discussing the legal aspects of Casey telling Baez where the body was. He would have to admit that that particular conversation had taken place. Was a really good post, worth going back and finding.

IMO..all issues of personal integrity or professional obligation have already been violated. Baez sees this as his big case to launch his name and career. We already can figure out that he is involved in selling photos to pay for his services..not to mention other professional violations re jail procedure etc. We know that he will do anything he must do, above or underboard, in hopes that this case is his golden egg into the upper echelon..

 

[Friday]

I think FaeFrost had a great post a couple pages back, discussing the legal aspects of Casey telling Baez where the body was. He would have to admit that that particular conversation had taken place. Was a really good post, worth going back and finding.

Thanks, luv, I'll have a look at that post, but in my example, KC did not come right out and tell Baez where the body was. I assume she's too sly to admit she knew where Caylee was. Instead, I envision her saying something like, "Oh wait, Jose, I just remembered something important--one time when Jesse and I went for a walk in the neighborhood, we turned right on Suburban and just when we came to the woods on the right hand side, Jesse made a wierd remark that that would be a perfect place to dump a body!"

Now that I've typed it, that seems really stupid... LOL

 

[Brini]

That's not respectful, actually.

And oddly, none of those thousands found the remains right there barely in the treeline off the curb of Suburban. So were the remains there yet?



Don't you think Wudge also wants the killer put behind bars?


You didn't mean to say "we all", right? But if it did happen that way, Mr. K has my appreciation.



But the remains were barely into the treeline, barely lower than curb level in terms of depth, not back in the swamp, just in minimal water at the water's highest point, right?

Well, as for me, I say thanks to Wudge and others for posting honestly and asking questions and wanting to know the truth whatever it may be, without partiality. Personally I found it a bit absurd that more investigation wasn't done into RK and KW and some others, just as a matter of routine investigation, no accusation toward any of them. MOO

The search was called off by TES, because the water was SO deep that they lost an ATV. The state is planning to demonstrate that, IIRC.

As for LE investigating RK. On what evidence?

KW is not part of this topic.

 

[lizzysf]

That's not respectful, actually.

And oddly, none of those thousands found the remains right there barely in the treeline off the curb of Suburban. So were the remains there yet?



Don't you think Wudge also wants the killer put behind bars?


You didn't mean to say "we all", right? But if it did happen that way, Mr. K has my appreciation.



But the remains were barely into the treeline, barely lower than curb level in terms of depth, not back in the swamp, just in minimal water at the water's highest point, right?

Well, as for me, I say thanks to Wudge and others for posting honestly and asking questions and wanting to know the truth whatever it may be, without partiality. Personally I found it a bit absurd that more investigation wasn't done into RK and KW and some others, just as a matter of routine investigation, no accusation toward any of them. MOO

I have zero doubts in my mind that Caylee's body has been there since Casey put her there in June. My questions of Kronk's discovery is not of a legal implication, but of a financially motivated decision to play it out as he did. Which backfired. He ran when the heat was on him.

 

[mysteriew]

I remember at one point there was a bit of a todo when the news that the county was having to pay for an attorney to protect Kronk, because he had found the remains while he was on duty for the county.

Now they are announcing his firing, and they are also announcing that they won't be paying for an attorney to continue to represent him. It makes me wonder if perhaps the firing might be related more to the attorney rep than the Worker's Comp issue. IIRC what they were shelling out for an attorney was a significant amount. It seems to me that if they felt they should pay for that attorney because he found the remains while on county time, that that obligation should remain even if he is currently fired.

Why is it an employer thinks that they have the right to supercede a Dr's statement and order an employee back to work when they and the doctor claim medical reasons to keep him off?

 

[Imbackon]

OT slightly;
In 1993 in Minnesota there was a murder case of a young girl named Coleen Erstad, the "family friend" Robert Gueverra went to trial for this murder.
There was a tremendous amount of evidence (physical and circumstantial) against him. Just one thing was missing, her body.

He was acquited because of lingering doubts by a couple of jurors that maybe she wasn't dead.
Her body is lost somewhere here and will probably be lost forever at this point.
I wish there woulda been a RK here is all I can think of. Someone who by hunch, or luck or whatever was able to find her and giver her her justice.

But then again, maybe someone did find her but they were afraid to come forward. These are my just my thoughts tonite and I can't help but feel sorry for RK right now.