In Retrospect-Kronk Believes He Saw Skull In August

[lizzysf]

Some say that plants were growing through the skull. If true, doesn't it makes you wonder about Mr. Kronk allegedly finding the skull inside a black plastic bag?

Not at all. The bags were also torn and exposed. Plants would invade no doubt. Leaves, dirt and debris were also in the bags. Even weed barriers in the flower beds can't hold back all the weed activity..and my plastic barriers are in pretty good shape.

 

[legalmania]

There are some good google earth maps in the sticky section that show an overview of where Caylee's location on Suburban was in reference to the school. Also wftv had a good map of the crime scene as well at some point, IIRC. (I'll look and see if I can find it) Suburban road runs rather diagonally in reference to Hopespring and it dead ends at the school, which is north and east of both. The areas that Kio described are supposedly directly across from the school and are not at all in the exact area that Caylee's remains were found. The general area where Caylee was found was part of a larger wooded area that kids may have played in growing up. The pictures I saw taken by TM's group showed several grassy openings and some paths but much of it was densely overgrown. By the way, Wudge, most of FL is snake-infested. They crawl across lawns right into garages. Sometimes the more populated areas have more of them, ostensibly because they are displaced from their natural habitat. Most people are more concerned with keeping an eye out for 'gators, imo.



FL sits on a series of limestone caverns filled with water. The fact that the water level is dropping - due to overpopulation - is also a reason for the sinkholes that keep happening. The aquafir is in big trouble there and it just can't rain enough to make up for it, I've heard.

Plus while they were building, they didn't figure in where all the raw sewerage would go. They not only have a snake problem they have rats, giant iguanas, frogs, and who knows what else. That's one reason why I moved out of there, Florida is in big trouble. Not only crime wise but pollution wise.

 

[Wudge]

I thought I remember him saying as soon as he found the bag he picked it up and the skull fell out. Now wouldn't it have broken into pieces with plants growing through the skull it should have broken into pieces, right?

If it was dropped, the skull wouldn't necessarily have broken. I have no idea how far it allegedly fell.

 

[Wudge]

Not at all. The bags were also torn and exposed. Plants would invade no doubt. Leaves, dirt and debris were also in the bags. Even weed barriers in the flower beds can't hold back all the weed activity..and my plastic barriers are in pretty good shape.

Given that Mr. Kronk said that in December that the black plastic bad had a dome shape -- from the skull inside -- it's just hard to reconcile from my armchair that plants were also growing through the skull.

 

[lizzysf]

Given that Mr. Kronk said that in December that the black plastic bad had a dome shape -- from the skull inside -- it's just hard to reconcile from my armchair that plants were also growing through the skull.

Yes. The skull was still inside the bag.. that was very torn and plant invaded. But, still in the bag.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Some say that plants were growing through the skull. If true, doesn't it makes you wonder about Mr. Kronk allegedly finding the skull inside a black plastic bag?

The autopsy report states that the body was most likely dumped in the woods during the initial stages of decomposition. It goes on to say that the pattern of distribution of the bones is consistent with the skull decomposing in the area where it was found.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/06/19/6440.6475.pdf

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Also, the autopsy report said nothing of roots or plant growth in the skull itself. It did say that there were small roots found in the hair mass. I don't find that the least bit suspicious in that those plastic bags were so disintegrated. Remember, too that silt would have been washing throughout all the bags and would have formed a fertile base for plant growth. MOO

 

[reeseeva]

Given that Mr. Kronk said that in December that the black plastic bag had a dome shape -- from the skull inside -- it's just hard to reconcile from my armchair that plants were also growing through the skull.

Yes. The skull was still inside the bag.. that was very torn and plant invaded. But, still in the bag.

I don't understant how he could have seen a dome shape, if this is in fact a true statement, as the 2 black plastic bags were inside the off-white, plastic-lined, laundry bag:waitasec:

 

[Wudge]

I don't understant how he could have seen a dome shape, if this is in fact a true statement, as the 2 black plastic bags were inside the off-white, plastic-lined, laundry bag:waitasec:

“I noticed a black plastic bag laying there and I saw, like, a dome in it,” Kronk told investigators the morning Caylee’s remains were found.

Kronk said the black garbage bag was closed.

"http://www..com/2009/04/a-human-skull-dropped-out-with-hair-duct-tape-roy-kronk/

No mention of the laundry bag.

 

[Harmony 2]

“I noticed a black plastic bag laying there and I saw, like, a dome in it,” Kronk told investigators the morning Caylee’s remains were found.

Kronk said the black garbage bag was closed.

"http://www..com/2009/04/a-human-skull-dropped-out-with-hair-duct-tape-roy-kronk/

No mention of the laundry bag.

The skull was found more than a foot away from the canvas laundry bag and black trash bag. See (page 3480) attachment below for details:

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19341482/detail.html

 

[Imbackon]

“I noticed a black plastic bag laying there and I saw, like, a dome in it,” Kronk told investigators the morning Caylee’s remains were found.

Kronk said the black garbage bag was closed.

"http://www..com/2009/04/a-human-skull-dropped-out-with-hair-duct-tape-roy-kronk/

No mention of the laundry bag.

Intermingled is the term the ME uses. Black plastic bags and laundry bag are intermingled.
black plastic bags are NOT intact, so my take is while the tie on one of the black plastic bags is closed, both black plastic bags are not intact (read ripped up), therefore things in it, may be showing. As in half in half out that kind of thing. I do not think the laundry bag was closed, and in the lone pic we have seen it does not appear to be closed. It is intact enough where it still has it's metal (silver?) collar attached.

I am sure the jury will see more pics then we have.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

“I noticed a black plastic bag laying there and I saw, like, a dome in it,” Kronk told investigators the morning Caylee’s remains were found.

Kronk said the black garbage bag was closed.

"http://www..com/2009/04/a-human-skull-dropped-out-with-hair-duct-tape-roy-kronk/

No mention of the laundry bag.

Here is the table describing the location of the findings. I am not surprised that the skull is listed on a separate line. It would be consistent with Kronk's narrative. It sounds like (although none of us will know with certitude until the photos are revealed during the trial) it was a tumble of eroded, ripped, half-in half-out mass of black plastic bags and a canvas bag. This seems to support Kronk's recollections rather than disprove them. (I find it unimportant that he didn't mention the laundry bag as he also didn't mention the large child care sign and several other pieces of garbage as well. (Same reference as the other autopsy report I have posted.)

 

[RR0004]

Folks, some posts back is a link to the autopsy report. It's a hard read, but very informative. It may answer a lot of your questions.

 

[RR0004]

The skull was found more than a foot away from the canvas laundry bag and black trash bag. See (page 3480) attachment below for details:

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19341482/detail.html

Didn't RK say there was some poking going on...and the skull rolled out?

Oh my...I can't go here.

 

[mitzi]

I was wondering why the officer with Kronk didn't smell something? I know by this time between the water and other garbage around there, there had to be some kind of smell, why didn't somebody smell something? Besides checking out the bag?

Bold mine.

If Caylee's little body was placed on Suburban around June 18th, with Florida's heat, within a month or less, decomposition would be complete, therefore no smell in mid August. (when Cain arrived on the scene.)

IIRC, there was info from neighbors to the Suburban site that within the first month, they smelled something, but a decaying dog was found and thought to be the cause of the smell, and so no further search was done.

Don't forget that everyone but the killer, (KC, in my opinion), did not know of Caylee being missing until 7/15. At that point, decomp was complete.

 

[Imbackon]

Didn't RK say there was some poking going on...and the skull rolled out?

Oh my...I can't go here.

I think rolling skulls was more from a reporter than RK. He does back away from that statement. I think no one wants to say rolling. Too pitiful, sad, gory thinking of it being a childs skull. They don't want it sensationalized.

I am thinking it rolled from within the inside of the bag when he lifted it, and with a small bit of lift and tragectory, it basically dropped a foot off from the bag. Small moving object, not much roll, but probably some slight roll.

I hope at trial they don't make someone show a computer rendition to show the physics of this!

 

[Imbackon]

Bold mine.

If Caylee's little body was placed on Suburban around June 18th, with Florida's heat, within a month or less, decomposition would be complete, therefore no smell in mid August. (when Cain arrived on the scene.)

IIRC, there was info from neighbors to the Suburban site that within the first month, they smelled something, but a decaying dog was found and thought to be the cause of the smell, and so no further search was done.

Don't forget that everyone but the killer, (KC, in my opinion), did not know of Caylee being missing until 7/15. At that point, decomp was complete.

Plus the swamp itself probably stunk!

 

[nobull]

Some say that plants were growing through the skull. If true, doesn't it makes you wonder about Mr. Kronk allegedly finding the skull inside a black plastic bag?

Not a stretch at all. If plants can grow through blacktop and concrete, they can certainly breach a wimpy plastic bag.

 

[Friday]

I don't agree that common sense says that Mr. Kronk had nothing to do with placing Caylee where she was found.

Well, I suppose your common sense could be less common and more refined than mine, LOL, but nonethless, my own common sense tells me that if Mr. Kronk had something to do with placing Caylee where she was, then he should have been able to find that spot and tell Cain exactly where it was. In fact, he should have been confident enough of the bag's contents and location to insist on escorting Cain to the spot when Cain balked.

The circumstances surrounding Mr. Kronk's discovery of Caylee are extremely strange and very puzzling.

His explanation of the circumstances is indeed very strange and puzzling, but I don't know the man or how he thinks, or what incidental personal matters he may have hoped to conceal, if any. However, as you said in another post, I'm sure the defense will "eviserate him," and in so doing, expose to all of us every embarrassing, incriminating, pitiful detail of his personal life. After he has been sufficiently stripped of all his dignity, the jury will have to decide whether or not anything they heard has any real bearing on the discovery at Suburban.

My notes have two other men being with Mr. Kronk when he first, allegedly, saw Caylee's skull (skulls are not black) in August. However, neither of those men say they saw anything or that they could see what Mr. Kronk thought he saw. Moreover, after calling in to the tip line on August 11, 12 and 13th, LE finally sent Mr. Cain out to investigate, and, like the men who were with Mr. Kronk and the searchers, Mr. Cain didn't find or see anything either.

Then in December, Mr. Kronk goes to relieve himself in those rattlesnake infested woods and, presto, he amazingly discovers a black plastic bag with what looks like a dome in it. He soon found that dome to be Caylee's skull. Obviously, finding her skull inside the black plastic bag does not at all reconcile with Mr. Kronk saying that he thinks what he saw in August was Caylee's skull.

I'm not saying that Mr. Kronk placed Caylee's remains where they were found. Still, the area is but a short distance from the Anthony home, and it had been previously searched. So Mr. Kronk is going to have a ton of explaining and reconciling to do when he's on the witness stand.

I'm sure many of the witnesses for the prosecution will end up feeling badly bruised and battered. Referring to the section of your last paragraph that I bolded... When you say the area had previously been searched, if you're referring to searches allegedly made by Dominic Casey or Joy W, I have nothing to say. However, if you're referring to searches by Texas Equuasearch, I can assure you that the specific area where Caylee's remains were found had never been searched by TES, let alone "cleared" as some here have stated.

Musikman--who was intimately involved in TES's Orlando searches--has tried repeatedly to share with everyone here his first hand, indisputable knowledge that TES searchers did NOT search that specific site, and he's also explained why they did not. Tim Miller is the founder of TES and he's stated the same thing, publicly and emphatically. He has produced photographs that prove the area was under water; he's shown a few of them during a press conference, and he will show many more, even clearer and more precise photos, during the trial.

I am on the Board of TES, and I was 40 feet away from that site in October, 2008. I know what that wooded section along Suburban looked like, and I also know how large an "area" we're really talking about here. If you assume that the distance along Suburban from HopeSpring to the school is only 1/2 mile (2,640 feet), and if you assume that the wooded section along Suburban is a mere 20 feet deep, that means there was a 52,000 square foot "area" of dense jungle and swamp to be searched.

Little Caylee's remains were in a garbage bag that occupied, at most, 12 to 15 square feet. I don't know how they were found, but I do know that immediate area had not been searched by TES. I hope this information will be useful to anyone reading this.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Thank you Friday.