In Retrospect-Kronk Believes He Saw Skull In August

[MissJames]

Also, the autopsy report said nothing of roots or plant growth in the skull itself. It did say that there were small roots found in the hair mass. I don't find that the least bit suspicious in that those plastic bags were so disintegrated. Remember, too that silt would have been washing throughout all the bags and would have formed a fertile base for plant growth. MOO

I was the one who mistakenly said roots were growing through the skull.It actually said roots were growing through several bones,particularly the vertabrae.Also it refers to roots growing through the hair mass.The entire autopsy report is very enlightening about how long Caylee's body is believed to have been there. RK had nothing to do with placing her there,IMO.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Well, I suppose your common sense could be less common and more refined than mine, LOL, but nonethless, my own common sense tells me that if Mr. Kronk had something to do with placing Caylee where she was, then he should have been able to find that spot and tell Cain exactly where it was. In fact, he should have been confident enough of the bag's contents and location to insist on escorting Cain to the spot when Cain balked.



His explanation of the circumstances is indeed very strange and puzzling, but I don't know the man or how he thinks, or what incidental personal matters he may have hoped to conceal, if any. However, as you said in another post, I'm sure the defense will "eviserate him," and in so doing, expose to all of us every embarrassing, incriminating, pitiful detail of his personal life. After he has been sufficiently stripped of all his dignity, the jury will have to decide whether or not anything they heard has any real bearing on the discovery at Suburban.



I'm sure many of the witnesses for the prosecution will end up feeling badly bruised and battered. Referring to the section of your last paragraph that I bolded... When you say the area had previously been searched, if you're referring to searches allegedly made by Dominic Casey or Joy W, I have nothing to say. However, if you're referring to searches by Texas Equuasearch, I can assure you that the specific area where Caylee's remains were found had never been searched by TES, let alone "cleared" as some here have stated.

Musikman--who was intimately involved in TES's Orlando searches--has tried repeatedly to share with everyone here his first hand, indisputable knowledge that TES searchers did NOT search that specific site, and he's also explained why they did not. Tim Miller is the founder of TES and he's stated the same thing, publicly and emphatically. He has produced photographs that prove the area was under water; he's shown a few of them during a press conference, and he will show many more, even clearer and more precise photos, during the trial.

I am on the Board of TES, and I was 40 feet away from that site in October, 2008. I know what that wooded section along Suburban looked like, and I also know how large an "area" we're really talking about here. If you assume that the distance along Suburban from HopeSpring to the school is only 1/2 mile (2,640 feet), and if you assume that the wooded section along Suburban is a mere 20 feet deep, that means there was a 52,000 square foot "area" of dense jungle and swamp to be searched.

Little Caylee's remains were in a garbage bag that occupied, at most, 12 to 15 square feet. I don't know how they were found, but I do know that immediate area had not been searched by TES. I hope this information will be useful to anyone reading this.

I think TES is a good organization. However, prior to TES involvement, and prior to the tropical storm, I believe some local search groups searched this area and found nothing. I also believe local police conducted searches in the area where the remains were found, and found nothing. If the police did not use dogs to walk the woodline in the most logical place to start to looking for a missing child, I would have to ask why not. If dogs were used, and only walked the woodline, how could a dog miss the scent of a recently decomposed body, a mere 15 feet or less from the woodline. The most logical answer to this is the remains were not there at the time of these searches. Roy Kronk called 911, prior to this call the area in question had been searched by local police and local searchers and nothing was found. Officer Cain did not see anything. This just seems not only odd to me, but seems like there is much more to this part of the story.

 

[Rlaub44]

I think TES is a good organization. However, prior to TES involvement, and prior to the tropical storm, I believe some local search groups searched this area and found nothing. I also believe local police conducted searches in the area where the remains were found, and found nothing. If the police did not use dogs to walk the woodline in the most logical place to start to looking for a missing child, I would have to ask why not. If dogs were used, and only walked the woodline, how could a dog miss the scent of a recently decomposed body, a mere 15 feet or less from the woodline. The most logical answer to this is the remains were not there at the time of these searches. Roy Kronk called 911, prior to this call the area in question had been searched by local police and local searchers and nothing was found. Officer Cain did not see anything. This just seems not only odd to me, but seems like there is much more to this part of the story.

advocate, do you happen to have any links to support the beliefs I bolded above? Especially indicating that the specific area had been searched where the body was eventually recovered, and what groups conducted these searches?

It would help me evaluate these claims if I could know that it was factual, not just what we may believe happened. I worry that if we don't prove one way or another, people might read this and take it as established fact, which certainly changes our discussion.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Harmony 2]

This is a video listed on the defense documents- page 6 http://wdbo.com/common/pdf/orlando/AnthonyMotion-8-10-3.pdf regarding a news crew filming the area on August 5, 2008 during a search of the area I had posted before:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gNJdDjZrgg"]YouTube - Could Caylee's Remains Have Been Moved?[/ame]


(Stipulation: I do not know which areas were filmed or searched. I am just posting what it appears the defense is going to claim. Again IMO the remains were there since June 18th but I am posting information I believe the jury will hear.)

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

advocate, do you happen to have any links to support the beliefs I bolded above? Especially indicating that the specific area had been searched where the body was eventually recovered, and what groups conducted these searches?

It would help me evaluate these claims if I could know that it was factual, not just what we may believe happened. I worry that if we don't prove one way or another, people might read this and take it as established fact, which certainly changes our discussion.

Thanks in advance!

in post number 798 in this thread there is a link i tried to copy and paste the following is what comes up
http://www.rosespeaks.com/rose-blog...has-been-monitored-since-day-one-in-mid-july/

But if you just go to post number 798 and click on link it takes you to the above http in that story there is reference to searches being made before tropical storm Faye also that cadaver dogs were used in these searches.

 

[Rlaub44]

This is a video listed on the defense documents- page 6 http://wdbo.com/common/pdf/orlando/AnthonyMotion-8-10-3.pdf regarding a news crew filming the area on August 5, 2008 during a search of the area I had posted before:

YouTube - Could Caylee's Remains Have Been Moved?


(Stipulation: I do not know which areas were filmed or searched. I am just posting what it appears the defense is going to claim. Again IMO the remains were there since June 18th but I am posting information I believe the jury will hear.)

Thanks Harmony2. This is definitely the type of material the defense will use to try and create doubt.

A few points to mention. The video stated that the news crew was filming about 25-40 feet away from the spot where the remains were later discovered, and this was not part of a search of the location, simply the producer and cameraman walking into those woods.

If the plant evidence ends up being rather determinative that the body truly was there since the early stages of decomp, I don't think this video from 25 feet away will make much dent in the scientific testimony. JMO, of course.

 

[Rlaub44]

in post number 798 in this thread there is a link i tried to copy and paste the following is what comes up
http://www.rosespeaks.com/rose-blog...has-been-monitored-since-day-one-in-mid-july/

But if you just go to post number 798 and click on link it takes you to the above http in that story there is reference to searches being made before tropical storm Faye also that cadaver dogs were used in these searches.

Thanks for following up. I read in the article that "neighborhood groups" indicated that that area was searched with cadaver dogs.

I guess for me that seems a bit vague, but it is better than nothing. I am curious to know if an organized search was conducted that catalogued all of the items that were located, or were the searchers just walking through the woods looking for a body? Would they have documented the location of trashbags they noticed? Were the dogs actually trained cadaver dogs, were they trained search dogs, or possibly just "neighborhood dogs" as well?

I appreciate the link, but I am still skeptical. Perhaps we will learn the actual details of these searches at trial, but my belief remains that Casey discarded her daughter there in mid-June, where the body remained until being discovered in December. I think the plant evidence will confirm it.

 

[RR0004]

I think TES is a good organization. However, prior to TES involvement, and prior to the tropical storm, I believe some local search groups searched this area and found nothing. I also believe local police conducted searches in the area where the remains were found, and found nothing. If the police did not use dogs to walk the woodline in the most logical place to start to looking for a missing child, I would have to ask why not. If dogs were used, and only walked the woodline, how could a dog miss the scent of a recently decomposed body, a mere 15 feet or less from the woodline. The most logical answer to this is the remains were not there at the time of these searches. Roy Kronk called 911, prior to this call the area in question had been searched by local police and local searchers and nothing was found. Officer Cain did not see anything. This just seems not only odd to me, but seems like there is much more to this part of the story.

Can you provide a link that says this specific area was officially searched prior to the 911 call?

 

[RR0004]

in post number 798 in this thread there is a link i tried to copy and paste the following is what comes up
http://www.rosespeaks.com/rose-blog...has-been-monitored-since-day-one-in-mid-july/

But if you just go to post number 798 and click on link it takes you to the above http in that story there is reference to searches being made before tropical storm Faye also that cadaver dogs were used in these searches.

I'd like to know their source.

 

[BeanE]

This is a video listed on the defense documents- page 6 http://wdbo.com/common/pdf/orlando/AnthonyMotion-8-10-3.pdf regarding a news crew filming the area on August 5, 2008 during a search of the area I had posted before:

(Stipulation: I do not know which areas were filmed or searched. I am just posting what it appears the defense is going to claim. Again IMO the remains were there since June 18th but I am posting information I believe the jury will hear.)

- I just watched/listened to this video four times. I heard nothing that said the news crew was filming *during a search*.

What I heard is that two news people were sent into the woods by Fox News.

Said at :33: "during that time we sent one of our photographers and producers into the woods on August fifth"

Nowhere in the video do I hear or see anything at all about a search.

Do you have a link to something that would confirm that this video is, as you say, a news crew filming the area during a search?


- Also, the reporter is completely unsure of where this video was filmed in relation to where Caylee's body was found. He says the photographer and producer were somewhere between 25 and 40 feet *away from* the area where *they believe* Caylee's remains were found.

Said at :46: "our photographer and producer were roughly 25 to 35... 40 feet away from the area where we believe the remains were discovered last Thursday"

Do you have a link to something that would confirm that what is filmed is, after all, the area where Caylee's remains were found?

 

[BeanE]

I'd like to know their source.

Me too, because so far as I know, we don't use blogs as supporting links - only media and LE.

 

[sleutherontheside]

I'd like to know their source.

I hardly think that the Rose website qualifies as a news source.* As we know from experience here.....THE A family posted on certain forums.* While I have NO PROOF, I can deducat that some of the "loonies" associated with this case have done their fair share of posting as well.* All in all, TES did NOT clear that area, LE was led by the entire family on a wild goose chase.* Ponder this...why would CA send a psychic far from Orlando an item of Caylees but refuse on to Tim?* I think we all know the answer to that one.* And remember this comment CA made to YM(was it)....You are not searching for a live Caylee...to which he respnded..."We are looking for CAYLEE."

 

[Harmony 2]

Thanks Harmony2. This is definitely the type of material the defense will use to try and create doubt.

A few points to mention. The video stated that the news crew was filming about 25-40 feet away from the spot where the remains were later discovered, and this was not part of a search of the location, simply the producer and cameraman walking into those woods.

If the plant evidence ends up being rather determinative that the body truly was there since the early stages of decomp, I don't think this video from 25 feet away will make much dent in the scientific testimony. JMO, of course.

The news crew (Phil Keating) were there on August 5th because of a search being conducted that day. I do not know specifically where the search took place but I believe it was based on Kiomarie's tip about the 'pet burial' site.

Please check out my single post where a link to the newscast for that day is posted. (Timestamp 2:00 on video is where the search is mentioned.)

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4372029&postcount=893"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - In Retrospect-Kronk Believes He Saw Skull In August[/ame]

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

I'd like to know their source.

The video supplied in post 944 is more clear on where searches were made, and that was a report from fox news. In that video they show no water. I think the area was searched. I do believe that LE searched this area as well, since it is the most logical area to search first. The video shows no water. However, even if one disputes the area in the video as the spot where the remains were found, it states the area had been searched. I accept that the police would have searched this obvious area and did not find anything prior to dec 11th, when Roy Kronk absolutely found the remains.

 

[The World According]

Well, I suppose your common sense could be less common and more refined than mine, LOL, but nonethless, my own common sense tells me that if Mr. Kronk had something to do with placing Caylee where she was, then he should have been able to find that spot and tell Cain exactly where it was. In fact, he should have been confident enough of the bag's contents and location to insist on escorting Cain to the spot when Cain balked.



His explanation of the circumstances is indeed very strange and puzzling, but I don't know the man or how he thinks, or what incidental personal matters he may have hoped to conceal, if any. However, as you said in another post, I'm sure the defense will "eviserate him," and in so doing, expose to all of us every embarrassing, incriminating, pitiful detail of his personal life. After he has been sufficiently stripped of all his dignity, the jury will have to decide whether or not anything they heard has any real bearing on the discovery at Suburban.



I'm sure many of the witnesses for the prosecution will end up feeling badly bruised and battered. Referring to the section of your last paragraph that I bolded... When you say the area had previously been searched, if you're referring to searches allegedly made by Dominic Casey or Joy W, I have nothing to say. However, if you're referring to searches by Texas Equuasearch, I can assure you that the specific area where Caylee's remains were found had never been searched by TES, let alone "cleared" as some here have stated.

Musikman--who was intimately involved in TES's Orlando searches--has tried repeatedly to share with everyone here his first hand, indisputable knowledge that TES searchers did NOT search that specific site, and he's also explained why they did not. Tim Miller is the founder of TES and he's stated the same thing, publicly and emphatically. He has produced photographs that prove the area was under water; he's shown a few of them during a press conference, and he will show many more, even clearer and more precise photos, during the trial.

I am on the Board of TES, and I was 40 feet away from that site in October, 2008. I know what that wooded section along Suburban looked like, and I also know how large an "area" we're really talking about here. If you assume that the distance along Suburban from HopeSpring to the school is only 1/2 mile (2,640 feet), and if you assume that the wooded section along Suburban is a mere 20 feet deep, that means there was a 52,000 square foot "area" of dense jungle and swamp to be searched.

Little Caylee's remains were in a garbage bag that occupied, at most, 12 to 15 square feet. I don't know how they were found, but I do know that immediate area had not been searched by TES. I hope this information will be useful to anyone reading this.

Thank you Friday and thank you Muzicman for searching, we love , and honor TES and all that you do. God sees you. We see you. You are heroes!

 

[Wudge]

The skull was found more than a foot away from the canvas laundry bag and black trash bag. See (page 3480) attachment below for details:

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19341482/detail.html

LE finding Caylee's skull outside and apart from the black plastic bag is totally consistent with what Mr. Kronk told LE; i.e., Mr. Kronk said that when he pulled for a second time on the black plastic bag that caused a human skull to drop out of the bag. In other words, it was Mr. Kronk who caused Caylee's skull to fall out of the bag. Mr. Kronk also told LE that the black plastic bag was closed at the time that he found it.

HTH

 

[BeanE]

The news crew (Phil Keating) were there on August 5th because of a search being conducted that day. I do not know specifically where the search took place but I believe it was based on Kiomarie's tip about the 'pet burial' site.

Please check out my single post where a link to the newscast for that day is posted. (Timestamp 2:00 on video is where the search is mentioned.)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - In Retrospect-Kronk Believes He Saw Skull In August

Here's what's said in the this video at 2:05

"we did confirm today that they did take some cadaver dogs out into some wooded area behind a local elementary school"

Pretty vague.

 

[BeanE]

The video supplied in post 944 is more clear on where searches were made

Can you please point me to that with the time in the video where it's clear where searches were made? I'm not hearing/seeing anything.

TIA

I think the area was searched. I do believe that LE searched this area as well, since it is the most logical area to search first.

Can you please provide something that supports that, or clarify if you are stating your opinion?

TIA

 

[Harmony 2]

Here's what's said in the this video at 2:05

"we did confirm today that they did take some cadaver dogs out into some wooded area behind a local elementary school"

Pretty vague.

Hi BeanE!

I am a member and advocate at another forum for the missing and have followed Caylee's case closely since day one. I specifically remember this particular search because there was discussion about it at that site on that day. For what that is worth... you can take it as my :twocents:

 

[Wudge]

SNIP

I'm sure many of the witnesses for the prosecution will end up feeling badly bruised and battered. Referring to the section of your last paragraph that I bolded... When you say the area had previously been searched, if you're referring to searches allegedly made by Dominic Casey or Joy W, I have nothing to say. However, if you're referring to searches by Texas Equuasearch, I can assure you that the specific area where Caylee's remains were found had never been searched by TES, let alone "cleared" as some here have stated.

Musikman--who was intimately involved in TES's Orlando searches--has tried repeatedly to share with everyone here his first hand, indisputable knowledge that TES searchers did NOT search that specific site, and he's also explained why they did not. Tim Miller is the founder of TES and he's stated the same thing, publicly and emphatically. He has produced photographs that prove the area was under water; he's shown a few of them during a press conference, and he will show many more, even clearer and more precise photos, during the trial.

I am on the Board of TES, and I was 40 feet away from that site in October, 2008. I know what that wooded section along Suburban looked like, and I also know how large an "area" we're really talking about here. If you assume that the distance along Suburban from HopeSpring to the school is only 1/2 mile (2,640 feet), and if you assume that the wooded section along Suburban is a mere 20 feet deep, that means there was a 52,000 square foot "area" of dense jungle and swamp to be searched.

Little Caylee's remains were in a garbage bag that occupied, at most, 12 to 15 square feet. I don't know how they were found, but I do know that immediate area had not been searched by TES. I hope this information will be useful to anyone reading this.

I've was not referring to TES. As best I know, apart from whatever searches TES did or did not conduct, other searches of the area were conducted prior to Mr. Kronk allegedly seeing something that caused him to make multiple calls in August so as to try and have LE send someone out to search the area.

As regards TES, the reports I read in the media indicate that TES has not been willing to turn their search records of that area over to Casey's defense team. If that is, in fact, true, it could suggest that TES might not be objective and/or have an agenda and/or a bias.