Internet down, police counterterror unit out in Egypt

  • #21
Here are some pictures from the Egyptian unrest that the MSM aren't showing. Please excuse the website's name given that it isn't appropriate for the pictures they are showing.
Warning, these pictures are very graphic.
http://totallycoolpix.com/2011/01/the-egypt-protests/
 
  • #22
Here are some pictures from the Egyptian unrest that the MSM aren't showing. Please excuse the website's name given that it isn't appropriate for the pictures they are showing.
Warning, these pictures are very graphic.
http://totallycoolpix.com/2011/01/the-egypt-protests/

Wow Porkchop!!! Those pictures are very powerful! I noticed that there were several pictures of women who were in the front lines protesting. Good for them!
 
  • #23
porkchop, those pictures are intense - good find

I was a bit annoyed to see some kids in the middle of it all
 
  • #24
Here are some pictures from the Egyptian unrest that the MSM aren't showing. Please excuse the website's name given that it isn't appropriate for the pictures they are showing.
Warning, these pictures are very graphic.
http://totallycoolpix.com/2011/01/the-egypt-protests/

I linked it to my Facebook account. So much for shutting down their "internet" connection to the rest of the world, huh?!!!! That really irritated me!
 
  • #25
  • #26
Together, Israel and Egypt receive over 1/3 of all U.S. Foreign Aid each year. Look it up. We have given this country BILLIONS of dollars over the years.

Currently Obama has threatened to "review" military funding to Egypt. Mubarak isn't stupid. But he IS 82 years old and supposedly has been grooming his son to take over. The son has no military background and is said to be "not respected" by the extremely respected military leaders.

Perhpas the Egyptians just want somebody younger and somebody competent and respected to run their country.
 
  • #27
Cairo falls into near-anarchy; army warns it will treat protesters as criminals

Saturday, January 29, 2011; 11:15 AM

CAIRO - Tens of thousands of pro-democracy demonstrators swarmed central Cairo on Saturday in the largest demonstration yet against the rule of the country's longtime autocratic leader, President Hosni Mubarak. The crowd went unchallenged by troops, who, in extraordinary scenes unfolding around the capital's central Tahrir Square, smiled and shook hands with protesters and invited them up onto their tanks.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,more at link>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/28/AR2011012806404.html?hpid=topnews
 
  • #28
  • #29
  • #30
One thing I wonder- did the Egyptian government pull the plug on the internet, or did they demand that all providers functioning there do so? If the later I would expect things to get a little hot for Yahoo, etc shortly as they would be seen as siding with the authorities. Sort of like what happened in China some time ago, one of the ISP companies was turning data over to their police to prosecute dissidents. Why hasn't anything been said about this aspect?
 
  • #31
One thing I wonder- did the Egyptian government pull the plug on the internet, or did they demand that all providers functioning there do so? If the later I would expect things to get a little hot for Yahoo, etc shortly as they would be seen as siding with the authorities. Sort of like what happened in China some time ago, one of the ISP companies was turning data over to their police to prosecute dissidents. Why hasn't anything been said about this aspect?

Maybe this will help explain it some - it's very different from here in the US (bbm):

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703956604576110453371369740.html#ixzz1CS2Y6LbY

.......
In the face of mounting political unrest, Egypt took the unprecedented step of severing all Internet connections and shutting down its cellphone services&#8212;with the cooperation of international firms.

Egyptian authorities asked mobile operators to "turn down the network totally," said Vittorio Colao, chief executive of U.K.-based Vodafone Group PLC, which owns 55% of Egypt's largest carrier, Vodafone Egypt.

Mr. Colao, speaking Friday at the World Economic Forum in Davos, said the request was legitimate under Egyptian law, but he hoped the government would reverse course soon.

Many of the mobile operators in Egypt, including Vodafone, rely on Telecom Egypt, the incumbent national fixed-line provider, to carry parts of their service. Telecom Egypt is majority owned by the government.

Egypt has dozens of Internet providers, but they rely primarily on five large carriers, including Telecom Egypt, for Internet connectivity.
........
 
  • #32
Great link, belimom!

I really try not to cite Wiki, but I thought this important for the scale and the timing of all of this. So there is perspective:

Several local and international human rights organizations, including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, have for many years criticized Egypt's human rights record as poor. In 2005, President Hosni Mubarak faced unprecedented public criticism when he clamped down on democracy activists challenging his rule. Some of the most serious human rights violations, according to HRW's 2006 report on Egypt, are routine torture, arbitrary detentions and trials before military and state security courts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt#Human_rights
 
  • #33
232088808.jpg



People at prayer being attacked yesterday

This picture speaks to my heart.

It brings tears to my eyes.

Thank you BH.
 
  • #34
Long live democracy and bless those that have died and are willing to sacrifice everything---even their own life---so that democracy can be enjoyed by their fellow countryman.

I do have an opinion about this as you can tell and my support is resolutely with the pro-democracy demonstrators.

I'm with you in heart and spirit and you will never know that but I just wanted to type that in public forum as well as say it outloud.

All JMHO and heartfelt post.
 
  • #35
This is what revolution looks like. This is what results from repression.

Long live democracy and bless those that have died and are willing to sacrifice everything---even their own life---so that democracy can be enjoyed by their fellow countryman.

I do have an opinion about this as you can tell and my support is resolutely with the pro-democracy demonstrators.

I'm with you in heart and spirit and you will never know that but I just wanted to type that in public forum as well as say it outloud.

All JMHO and heartfelt post.

I'm with you Kat. The title of this thread should be Revolution in Egypt. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/ It is just blowing up over there but few Americans understand why. The people of Egypt have been besieged by a corrupt dictator, guilty of nepotism, cruel human rights abuses and extreme repression, for decades. They have swallowed this for many years. Then, they witnessed what happened in Tunisia.

Tunisia had similar problems but worse. When a beloved young street vendor set him self on fire in front of a government building in protest of the years of abuse that he and many other citizens endure simply because they are trying to survive, the people on the streets went mad. The indifference on the part of the head of police and then the president, who days later deigned to visit the dying young man and was photographed stranding imperiously in front of the man's bed, further inflamed the embattled public. They kept to the streets, their internet was shut down, cell phone service terminated and curfews were put in place but nothing deterred them. Their government finally fled in disgrace. http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/01/2011126121815985483.html

When those in Egypt saw what was occurred in Tunisia, they realized what was possible. By the way, this is now happening also in Jordan, Yemen, Algeria and Lebanon, though on a smaller scale.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/bab...n-albania-algeria-tunisia-egypt-protests.html
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/brie...ts engulf Lebanon as new prime minister named
http://www.casavaria.com/cafesentido/2011/01/29/7311/pro-democracy-protests-spread-to-jordan/

Many westerners are afraid of what is happening. They feel that radical Islamists may take over, that we will lose our ally or that Israel's security will be threatened. These are not entirely unreasonable fears. The map of the world is like a puzzle. Any shift in the pieces, any instability, can create a domino effect and cause and can have world-wide ramifications, including world-wide war.

But this is the result, IMO, of sanctioning repression and seeking allies in dictatorships due to our short-term needs, like oil. Our support of corrupt governments or movements can and has come back to haunt us. Remember, we supported Sadam Hussein at one time. We also provided arms to the Taliban. We are also intensely allied with Saudi Arabia, a country that has funded terror and the spread of radical madrasas, all across the middle east and Africa.

I support the quest of these people for democracy. What they have gone through is unimaginable to most of us. But, I am watching with trepidation at what will result as a major shift begins to occur in such an unstable region.
 
  • #36
  • #37
Gitana, you bring up many excellent points. For folks who don't understand the Middle East, its people, its politics, its history - it's hard to get a grasp on what is really happening over there. And what is happening is so intertwined on many levels with other issues: an overpopulous country with millions living in poverty and no way to support them; a worldwide economic depression that is making that situation worse; a corrupt government; a fragile balance between being an Arabic nation with so many Western influences and ties; etc., etc.

My husband and I were discussing all of this again - as we have been all day. His specialty is the Middle East for his job and he has spent years traveling/working all over that region -- Saudi Arabia, Oman, UAE, Kuwait, and then I moved with him to Egypt. Even so, he admits knowing very little about what is going on and what the real issues are. I think it's a case of, "the more you know, the more you realize you don't know" for him. He knows quite a bit but he realizes there's so much more out there to know, kwim? I agree and I feel that I know just enough to get myself in trouble if I start giving my opinion about the politics of it all. So I'm not going to comment on that part right now.

However, from what I do know and have seen: I believe that whatever happens over there - the new leader (and there will be one, IMHO), the new government - has a daunting task: how do you revive a country that is so overrun with poverty and unemployment? When we lived there, unemployment was rumored to be about 30%, although "officially" it was much lower. (With the govt having no transparency, who knows how they came up with the numbers they did?) It was my first time out of the U.S. when we arrived - and I had never seen anything like it.

--There are many many people living in poverty. There was an upper class and huge lower class, with a budding/growing middle class. Most of the homes of the lower class did not have proper sewage/sanitation.

--Trash is dumped in the Nile, in the canals, anywhere they can put it. You can smell it. There are sections of town and even streets in our neighborhood where you knew to roll up the window before you got there because the smell was so bad.

--Many can't afford the "public" schools because there are still fees associated with it, and even those that can, the majority of the lower class (which make up the largest part of the population) don't go beyond sixth grade - and even before then most of those don't bother to attend.

--When it rained while we lived there (two days in 1 1/2 years), the streets flooded b/c there is not a drainage system - and the puddles that remained afterwards reeked of raw sewage on the street in front of our villa. I remember stepping ever so carefully over and around them, for a week or two before it receded and soaked into the ground.

So, yes, a lot of people are discontented, but how do you solve it? How do you create jobs or improve conditions for millions of people? Even here in the U.S., where we have much more money, much less poverty, and a much more stable government, we can't even manage to fix our own struggling economy right now. Imagine how difficult of a task this is in a country like Egypt.

It's also very hard to go back and fix a government where corruption is so rampant and so entrenched throughout the whole system. We saw it on the very low levels. This type of corruption starts at the highest levels of the government and filters down, because generally if it's not tolerated at the top then it's not tolerated at the bottom.

Two examples of corruption that we personally experienced:

1) When we lived there, I used the internet all the time through our phone line. It was never explained to us that data is billed by the minute. When we went to leave, I had to go to the phone company (gov't owned) and pay the phone bill. You get the bill something like once a year, and we got ours a few weeks before we were leaving. Our landlord reminded us to pay and get a receipt: our bill said that we owed the equivalent of about $1000 USD. We were shocked but there was nothing to do about it. We just didn't know - and our landlord didn't tell us because they assumed that we knew and that it was that way back here in the States. With my husband working, I went down to the phone company to pay the bill. It is a cash-based society (mainly) and so I went in with cash (almost 4000 LE -- Egyptian pounds). That is probably a year's salary for the workers at the phone company. I was the only woman in the lobby that was filled to capacity, stifling hot, and smelled dirty. Behind the desks were about 10 people taking money and many more working at desks behind them. I believe there was one woman back there but I can't recall now. When it was my turn, I kept saying, "Ingleezee, min fadlak?" ("English, please?"). There was one English-speaking teller and I was directed to him. Several of his buddies left their stations/desk to gather around and see what this Western woman needed. I showed him the phone bill and he said that he could help. I told him that I would need a receipt and he said no problem. He counted out the money with folks hanging over his shoulder. He wrote out a receipt, showed it to a few folks who nodded, and handed it to me. I could speak very little Arabic and could read/write even less, but I did recognize the dollar amount of what I had paid. He also scribbled something on the bill and circled the dollar amount. Satisfied, I left. Knowing my flight date, our landlord called a few days later to tell me that the phone bill had not been paid. I told her that it had been and that I had a receipt. She said she would have someone check again and get back with us. I then stared at the receipt, and got nervous. When my husband came home from work, I ran out and showed his driver and asked him what it said. He said that it said really nothing - just that I had asked how much we owed and the man basically rewrote the bill on another piece of paper. They had stolen our money. We relayed our story to the landlord, who went to the phone company and was told that I did not pay them anything. We left the country without paying again. What really bothered me is this: it was not just one gov't employee -- there were at least a dozen people watching who knew exactly what was going on. I'm sure they all split the money when I left.

2) We bought a vehicle there and had to have the registration switched over. Because we were expats, it's a different process with a lot of paperwork. As with most things over there with the govt offices, it involved baksheesh (tips) that kept getting higher and higher with each step. It took forever and a day -- and lots of sitting and sitting at the gov't office. And with each step, they would come back out and say they needed more baksheesh. When my husband finally got fed up and complained (my husband went with an Egyptian coworker), he was told to leave if he didn't like it. We had no choice but to pay in order to get the correct tags/permits so that the sale could take place.

(And if you really want to read a story, read this one: http://www.cruisingworld.com/destinations/places/baksheesh)

The human rights issues are a whole 'nother post... but my brain is tired after writing all of this out. I really do love the country and its people. And my heart is with them as they struggle right now. I'll leave you guys with this picture of what you don't see in the tourist books and to give you an idea of what we saw nearly every day. This isn't going to be easy to fix:

attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • trash in cairo.jpg
    trash in cairo.jpg
    48.8 KB · Views: 76
  • #38
I found this on an English Middle Eastern news site:

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/01/30/135601.html
The crowd in Tahrir (Liberation) Square, the epicenter of the revolt in the Egyptian capital, chanted "Neither Mubarak nor Suleiman; we're sick of Americans."


And more:
"This is the Arab world's Berlin moment," said Fawaz Gerges of the London School of Economics, comparing the events to the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989. "The authoritarian wall has fallen, and that's regardless of whether Mubarak survives."
........
In Europe, the German, French and British leaders issued a joint statement thanking Mubarak for his contribution to stability in the Middle East -- Egypt led the way in agreeing to a peace with Israel -- but demanding that he now start the move to free elections, a move that would certainly end his power.

Protesters want not only Mubarak's departure but an end to endemic corruption and police brutality that have become systemic under the president's 30-year rule.
.........
 
  • #39
We give "foreign aid" to many nations specifically to fund their armies. That is to keep these tin pot dictators like Mubarak in power.

Meanwhile, our fraudulent banking system has caused food prices to rise worldwide. For developed countries where the populace pays a small fraction of their income for food this matters little. But for many other countries where the populace pays a large portion of their income to eat, it matters more.

So who has caused the riots in Tunisia, Egypt, and elsewhere? We have. We failed to put our failed banks into receivership and cleanse our system of fraud and excessive debt.

These riots, not just in these north African countries, but all over the world are going to peak and trough in strong correlation to food prices.
 
  • #40
I hate to ask, but the media often spins things. Is that picture actually of those at prayer being hosed down, or did they simply take a protective posture when the hoses came on? I have no idea why this matters to me, considering the scale of this issue, it shouldn't, but I can't get that picture out of my head.
 

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
124
Guests online
2,668
Total visitors
2,792

Forum statistics

Threads
633,547
Messages
18,643,688
Members
243,574
Latest member
Vexadora
Back
Top