Internet down, police counterterror unit out in Egypt

[gitana1]

US family finally was able to make phone contact with my niece who lives in a Cairo suburb. Although citizens cannot call out, apparently it's possible - with much perseverance - to call in. They are afraid to even leave their house. However, her husband is going to try to walk about a block today to try to get airline tickets out. (He has some "pull," but we'll see.)

She and her family live in an allottment. It's not legal to own a gun, but two of the men in the compound have them. They have barricaded the entrance to the area, are manning it, and are prepared to shoot looters.

About 6000 prisoners were let out of prison by protestors. I cannot imagine why. Think about it. If you were a prisoner, would your priority be to protest the government, or would it be to reconnect with family/friends, or possibly engage in looting?

I imagine, though, that many people there feel prisoners are those that simply could not pay bribes or who went against the government in some way. I can imagine that in such a corrupt system, many actual criminals simply buy their way out of jail. In any event, the last I heard was that it was 1000 prisoners that escaped not because they were freed but because their jailers fled. But, that was yesterday!

 

[gitana1]

I keep in mind that Al Jeezera is a media outlet much like CNN or Fox. They do have a bias as does their American Counterparts. It is usually from what I can tell a bias that slants against USA at any given opportunity to report in that manner.

It's a good media outlet. IMHO. But I approach it as I do with CNN and Fox. KWIM?

Has Obama made a statement to the Egyptian/Americans? (Who may have family...etc?)

I'm not looking for one, no particular reason I'm not looking for one either.LOL

I just read in a couple of articles (the comments sections) that some of the Egyptian Americans were hoping he would have some words of comfort and support for them.

I wouldn't find it remiss if he didn't say anything specific. Just asking.

JMHO.

I am not pleased with our government's response but I get it: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/right-turn/2011/01/on_egypt_obama_offers_too_litt.html

Obama is walking a fine line. Mubarak is our ally when it comes to Israel and we have oil deals with Egypt. If he remains in power and Obama publicly supported the protestors, oops! We will be in danger of losing a key political ally. If Mubarak is chased out and Obama failed to support the quest for democracy, that sets the stage for our future relations with the people of Egypt. Scary. I have heard that we also almost completely fund their military so some people feel what we want is what the Egyptian military will do. I don't know.

 

[gitana1]

I agree - just like Al Jazeera. But I do believe it's just as important to read the viewpoints of others, particularly those in a culture different from ours, kwim?
I'm not in any way saying that you are saying that we shouldn't - not at all - but I think the truth is often somewhere in the middle of everyone's interpretation of events --- as far as the reason 'why' especially.

You are right, that's why I'm jumping between BBC News, Al Jazeera and CNN.

 

[belimom]

Perilous choices for Egypt's military

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/01/30/alterman.egypt.military/index.html?hpt=C1

Egypt's government is not just Hosni Mubarak's government, it is a military government. Now the generals must decide whether backing Mubarak is worth the potential cost, writes Jon Alterman.

 

[belimom]

Charter flights to carry thousands of Americans out of Egypt

By the CNN Wire Staff
January 30, 2011 6:25 p.m. EST

Washington (CNN) -- Charter flights that begin Monday will ferry the first of thousands of Americans away from the escalating crisis in Egypt, the State Department said.

"We will keep running the charter flights until we get [all] people out," said Assistant Secretary of State Janice L. Jacobs.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/30/egypt.us.flights/index.html?hpt=C1

 

[mankato64]

Thank You everyone for all the updates and links, busy day today and this is the best place to catch up on the current situation in a condensed form, much love to my fellow WS'ers. Happy thoughts of a blessed Monday to ya'll. Cheers.

 

[belimom]

Regarding the aid to foreign countries, I had always assumed it was a 'I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine' mentality, or along the lines of 'keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer' kind of thing. Because the truth of the matter is, when it comes to national security, we need allies in the Middle East, and Egypt has played a key role recently in that regard.

But there's actually more to the 'why' of all this aid (bbm):

http://www.globalissues.org/article/35/foreign-aid-development-assistance

Foreign aid or (development assistance) is often regarded as being too much, or wasted on corrupt recipient governments despite any good intentions from donor countries. In reality, both the quantity and quality of aid have been poor and donor nations have not been held to account.

In 1970, the world’s rich countries agreed to give 0.7% of their gross national income as official international development aid, annually. Since that time, despite billions given each year, rich nations have rarely met their actual promised targets. For example, the US is often the largest donor in dollar terms, but ranks amongst the lowest in terms of meeting the stated 0.7% target.

Furthermore, aid has often come with a price of its own for the developing nations:

-Aid is often wasted on conditions that the recipient must use overpriced goods and services from donor countries
-Most aid does not actually go to the poorest who would need it the most
-Aid amounts are dwarfed by rich country protectionism that denies market access for poor country products, while rich nations use aid as a lever to open poor country markets to their products
-Large projects or massive grand strategies often fail to help the vulnerable; money can often be embezzled away.

DH said he absolutely agrees with the first two points above. A minimum of 80% of the amount given from USAID has to be spent on US goods/services, so the money is largely funneled back into our own economy. Contracts are awarded to US companies (hence the reason we were there) b/c it would be too difficult for a foreign company to meet the 80% requirement. Airline travel had to always be on US carriers - same with hotel stays. 80% of all computers, etc, had to be purchased from the US at prices much higher than what was available locally - plus shipping from the US to Egypt.

I am not saying that I agree or disagree with the aid or how it is spent, but perhaps this may explain it a little better.

 

[belimom]

Egyptian disappointment with U.S. likely to increase

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/01/30/egypt.us/index.html?hpt=T2

And this...

These headlines/pictures remind me of living in Cairo during 9/11 and watching Bush's post-9/11 speech, particularly this quote:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/specials/attacked/transcripts/bushaddress_092001.html
Americans are asking ``Why do they hate us?''

They hate what they see right here in this chamber: a democratically elected government. Their leaders are self-appointed. They hate our freedoms: our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other.

Actually I never agreed with that. They could care less what we do within our own country - it's when our international policies start affecting them directly that they get angry. I know Bush was talking about the terrorists mainly, but when we lived there, we were aware of some anti-American sentiment even among regular folks.

We were there on 9/11 - and were told by the Embassy not to leave our home even to go to the grocery store. But we did anyway b/c by that time we knew most of the shopkeepers, bawwebs (doormen), and neighbors, and felt somewhat safe in our own little neighborhood. As we bought Arabic newspapers with the 9/11 headlines, we had several Egyptians give their genuine condolences over what had happened, ask if our families were okay, etc. But then I had heard that Egyptian teens had a motorcade on 9/11 around CAC (Cairo American College - the private elem/middle/high school for expats - and some Egyptians attended as well) just after the attacks (it was already 2:00 or 3:00 over there). We also had friends who taught in the Egyptian schools and said their students talked of celebrations in their neighborhoods that night, with candy given to kids and firecrackers set off.

I finally was able to reconcile the two different reactions: one is a deep and sincere sympathy for the horrific loss of life, while the other is celebration of a world superpower taking a blow - a superpower whose int'l policies affect those in other cultures in ways that we will never really know and can't understand. It's like cheering on the playground when the bully finally gets hit by the small guy, kwim?

I am in no way defending those celebrations - and I am not well-versed in int'l politics. But I do believe our govt does things that we never know about - or maybe we do but don't understand the ripple effects to other countries, especially smaller developing nations. The day I flew home from Egypt was the day we invaded Afghanistan. I kept thinking of the sentiment over there after 9/11 and thought, "There has to be a better way...".

If you want to read some of the anti-American sentiment after 9/11, look here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/539031/posts

(I know that discussing politics is usually taboo in conversations - particularly on the internet when you don't know who is behind that username, so I hope that I can post these views and links to statements, and pose some questions without drawing harsh criticism. One thing my husband has said repeatedly after working in over 26 developing nations (Middle East mainly but also Africa, Eastern Europe, etc) with stark contrasts to the civil rights and peace that we are used to is that we live in one of the greatest countries in the world, even though it has its flaws. I agree 100% - and I think the more we understand people who are different from us, the more tolerant we can be and work towards solutions. Their story is much different from ours - and I honestly try to see how we look to them.)

 

[songline]

I am not pleased with our government's response but I get it: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/right-turn/2011/01/on_egypt_obama_offers_too_litt.html

Obama is walking a fine line. Mubarak is our ally when it comes to Israel and we have oil deals with Egypt. If he remains in power and Obama publicly supported the protestors, oops! We will be in danger of losing a key political ally. If Mubarak is chased out and Obama failed to support the quest for democracy, that sets the stage for our future relations with the people of Egypt. Scary. I have heard that we also almost completely fund their military so some people feel what we want is what the Egyptian military will do. I don't know.

I think it is very important to keep the region there stabilized, because there is the The Society of the Muslim Brothers who are terrorists, so while Hosni Mubarak is on his way out, but not this week, we must support a proper transition or else what will happen is another terror group will take over just as Hezbollah took over the Palestinians.
NO BARAK OBAMA is not wrong to handle this one very gingerly.
Neither Europe nor the West knows that terrain and Saudi Arabia is also not for these protests because they do know what may sadly lie ahead if we just DO without caution.

 

[teedie2]

I am contributing an informative, on the ground, twitter:

http://www.twitter.com/sharifkouddous

Omar Suleiman ran #Egypt's US-backed torture program. He is unacceptable. #Jan25 about 11 hours ago via Echofon

bbm

uh .. what?

 

[belimom]

Omar Suleiman ran #Egypt's US-backed torture program. He is unacceptable. #Jan25 about 11 hours ago via Echofon

bbm

uh .. what?

I did some googling (I've never heard of Suleiman or "rendition"). I found the following:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=824785

Abstract:
"Rendition" is the United States' policy of sending terrorism suspects to be interrogated in Middle Eastern countries that practice torture.

This Article introduces the subject by describing a complaint filed in a lawsuit by Canadian citizen Maher Arar. The United States sent Arar from New York to Syria, where he was tortured and held in an underground cell for nearly a year. Arar alleges that his transfer violated the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment ("CAT").

Arar's lawsuit may be dismissed before the court reaches the substance of his claims. But much of the evidence needed to evaluate his charges is already a matter of public record. This Article attempts to compile that relevant evidence, which has been reported in hundreds of different sources, into single coherent account for the first time. Section I does this for Arar's case. Section II does it for the other known cases of rendition, in order to address the Bush administration's most common defense of the practice: the argument that before every rendition it obtains diplomatic assurances that a suspect will not be tortured, and these are enough to reduce the odds of torture to under 50 percent and thus comply with Article 3 of the CAT.

Section III addresses the administration's argument that Article 3 of the CAT does not apply extraterritorially.

Section IV examined whether rendition violates the United States' criminal prohibitions on torture in the "Anti-Torture Statute," 18 U.S.C. Sections 2340 and 2340A.

http://www.aclu.org/national-security/fact-sheet-extraordinary-rendition

Beginning in the early 1990s and continuing to this day, the Central Intelligence Agency, together with other U.S. government agencies, has utilized an intelligence-gathering program involving the transfer of foreign nationals suspected of involvement in terrorism to detention and interrogation in countries where -- in the CIA's view -- federal and international legal safeguards do not apply. Suspects are detained and interrogated either by U.S. personnel at U.S.-run detention facilities outside U.S. sovereign territory or, alternatively, are handed over to the custody of foreign agents for interrogation. In both instances, interrogation methods are employed that do not comport with federal and internationally recognized standards. This program is commonly known as "extraordinary rendition."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/01/30-2

Katherine Hawkins, an expert on the US's rendition to torture program, in an email, has sent some critical texts where Suleiman pops up. Thus, Jane Mayer, in The Dark Side, pointed to Suleiman's role in the rendition program:

Each rendition was authorized at the very top levels of both governments....The long-serving chief of the Egyptian central intelligence agency, Omar Suleiman, negotiated directly with top Agency officials. [Former U.S. Ambassador to Egypt] Walker described the Egyptian counterpart, Suleiman, as "very bright, very realistic," adding that he was cognizant that there was a downside to "some of the negative things that the Egyptians engaged in, of torture and so on. But he was not squeamish, by the way" (pp. 113).

Stephen Grey, in Ghost Plane, his investigative work on the rendition program also points to Suleiman as central in the rendition program:

To negotiate these assurances [that the Egyptians wouldn't "torture" the prisoner delivered for torture] the CIA dealt principally in Egypt through Omar Suleiman, the chief of the Egyptian general intelligence service (EGIS) since 1993. It was he who arranged the meetings with the Egyptian interior ministry.... Suleiman, who understood English well, was an urbane and sophisticated man. Others told me that for years Suleiman was America's chief interlocutor with the Egyptian regime -- the main channel to President Hosni Mubarak himself, even on matters far removed from intelligence and security.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2011/01/30/no-suleiman-no-shafiq

'No to Suleiman, no to Shafiq'

But most Egyptians at Sunday’s protest dismissed the appointment as a stunt: Ahmed, a taxi driver from the Medinat Nasr neighbourhood, called him “Mubarak’s right hand”; Osama, a businessman who walked across the bridge from Cairo’s upscale Zamalek district, called him “the big man” behind the regime’s “dirty policies.”

Khalid, a 35-year-old shoe salesman from downtown Cairo, turned the tables a bit, asking me who the American government would prefer as Egypt’s president. Omar Suleiman, I answered.

“That’s why he was appointed,” Khalid said.

 

[songline]

WHO IS WHO:

PRESIDENT
[Hosni Mubarak Age: 82
Role: The former air force commander has ruled Egypt for 30 years as leader of the National Democratic Party. Fierce protesters have pushed him into naming a vice president for the first time in three decades.
Background: Mubarak was thrust into office when Islamists gunned down his predecessor Anwar Sadat at a military parade in 1981. He has long promoted peace abroad and on the domestic front he has kept a tight lid on political opposition. He has resisted any significant political change even under pressure from the United States. The U.S. has poured billions of dollars of military and other aid into Egypt since it became the first Arab state to make peace with Israel, signing a treaty in 1979.
Controversy: Mubarak won the first multicandidate presidential election in 2005 although the outcome was never in doubt and his main rival came in a distant second. Rights groups and observers said the election was marred by irregularities.
Personal note: There have been questions about his health after surgery in Germany last March.
New VP

VP
Omar Suleiman Age: 74
Role: The intelligence chief and Mubarak confidant became Egypt's first vice president in three decades on Jan. 29. The move clearly set up a succession that would hand power to Suleiman and keep control of Egypt in the hands of military men.
Military man: He has been the director of the Egyptian General Intelligence Services since 1993, a part in which he has played a prominent public role in diplomacy, including in Egypt's relations with Israel and the United States. In 1992 he headed the General Operations Authority in the Armed Forces and then became the director of the military intelligence unit before taking over EGIS. Suleiman took part in the war in Yemen in 1962 and the 1967 and 1973 wars against Israel.
Intel chief: Suleiman was in charge of the country's most important political security files, and was the mastermind behind the fragmentation of Islamist groups who led the uprising against the state in the 1990s.
New PM

Egypt's Civil Aviation Minister
Ahmed Shafiq.
Age: 69
Role: President Mubarak appointed Shafiq as prime minister on Jan. 29.
Background: A close associate of Mubarak, Shafiq has been minister of civil aviation since 2002. As minister of civil aviation, Shafiq has won a reputation for efficiency and administrative competence. He has supervised a successful modernization program at the state airline, EgyptAir, and improvements to the country's airports.
Former fighter pilot: Shafiq served as commander of the Egyptian air force between 1996 and 2002, a post Mubarak held before he became vice president of Egypt under former President Anwar Sadat.
Rival

RIVAL
Mohamed ElBaradei Age: 68
Role: The Nobel Peace Prize winner joined demonstrators trying to oust Mubarak. ElBaradei has suggested he might run for president if democratic and constitutional change were implemented.
Atomic watchdog: ElBaradei joined the International Atomic Energy Agency in 1984 and served as its director-general in 1997. He transformed the IAEA into a body bold enough to take a stand on political issues relating to peace and proliferation, despite critics' belief that it was not its place. In 2005, ElBaradei and the IAEA were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. He retired in 2009.
Law and diplomacy: He studied law, graduating from the University of Cairo and the New York University School of Law. He began his career in the Egyptian diplomatic service in 1964, working twice in the permanent missions of Egypt to the United Nations in New York and Geneva. He was in charge of political, legal and arms control issues. He was a special assistant to the Egyptian foreign minister and was a member of the team that negotiated the peace settlement with Israel at Camp David in 1978. He joined the United Nations two years later.
On Iraq: ElBaradei was outspoken on the lack of evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq before the U.S.-led invasion in 2003, which angered the Bush administration.
On guard


Egyptian army soldiers
Egyptian Armed Forces
Role: The army remains the most powerful institution in Egypt's chaotic nation, and whatever it does next will determine the future of the Arab world's most populous country. The military appeared to be going to great lengths to calm the country without appearing opposed to demonstrations.
Background: Egypt's 500,000-man army has long enjoyed the respect of citizens who perceive it as the country's least corrupt and most efficient public institution, particularly compared to a police force notorious for heavy handedness and corruption. It is touted as having defeated Israel in the 1973 Mideast War, and revered for that role.
Stabilizer: The military, for its part, sees itself as the guarantor of national stability and above the political fray, loyal to both the government and what it sees as the interests of the general population. The military has given Egypt all of its four presidents since the monarchy was toppled in 1952.
Provider: Although it has almost completely withdrawn from politics since 1952, the army has added to its strength by venturing into economic activity, playing a growing role in such key service industries as food production and construction. It stepped in 2008 during an acute shortage of bread, Egypt's main stable, which it provided from its own bakeries. It has since opened outlets for basic food items sold as vastly discounted prices.

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood leader
Mohamed Badie
Name: Muslim Brotherhood
Role: The brotherhood is Egypt's largest and most organized political opposition movement. Banned in 1954 on charges of using violence, members returned to Egypt to show support in protests.
Background: The group said it has since denounced violence and expanded its international presence. It has participated in Egyptian elections as independents despite frequent crackdowns. It surprisingly won about 20 percent of the 454 seats in 2005 parliamentary elections and since then, authorities have jailed around 5,000 of its members. The group believes in Islamic rule.
New audience: The Muslim Brotherhood is the focus of a TV series, "Al-Gamaa," or "The Group," which centers on a 2009 court case in which members were accused of setting up a student militia.
Mubarak's son


Gamal Mubarak (son)
Age: 47
Role: Served as secretary general of his father's National Democratic Party.
Background: As he leaped up party ranks over the years, the younger Mubarak has avoided confirming or categorically denying he has ever intended to seek the presidency. His credentials as the guide of Egypt's economy suffered a setback when food prices soared in 2008 and street protests over low wages, unemployment and a higher cost of living grew in frequency. Still, he has touted the fruits of his liberalization reforms: creation of jobs over the past five years, economic growth and rises in salaries for state employees. Gamal, unlike his father and Egypt's other presidents, does not have a military background.

 

[gitana1]

I think it is very important to keep the region there stabilized, because there is the The Society of the Muslim Brothers who are terrorists, so while Hosni Mubarak is on his way out, but not this week, we must support a proper transition or else what will happen is another terror group will take over just as Hezbollah took over the Palestinians.
NO BARAK OBAMA is not wrong to handle this one very gingerly.
Neither Europe nor the West knows that terrain and Saudi Arabia is also not for these protests because they do know what may sadly lie ahead if we just DO without caution.

I've been listening to a lot of experts who do not believe the possibility of Islamo-Fascists taking over the country is as probable as most westerners fear. However, one said that if the protests go on long enough, the normal citizens may begin dropping out of the resistance leaving radical, religious elements behind. He said that is what happened in Iran. On the other hand, I have also heard that Egypt is a very secular country. Yes, most people there are Islamic like most Americans are Judeo-Christian, but the Muslim Brotherhood only has about 25% of the people's support and the protesters, for the most part, do not see a religious regime as the solution.

It's strange. I'm very conflicted. I agree with many of the people of Egypt who feel we Americans are hypocritical in our desire for democracy but only in areas where a particular dictator has become our enemy. Otherwise, we fear what we will be left with. We have supported Egypt's government with 30 billion in aid since Mubarak has been in office. In return, we expect him to help us with oil deals and to be our ally, at least to some degree, when it comes to Israel. But there is a huge price- the people in that country (and other we support) suffer horrifically while we turn a blind eye, just as long as their oppressors continue to do our bidding. But Arabs have a long memory and they know exactly who is supporting their dictator. We walk a fine, scary line.

But I also share the fear that these nations are not that capable of sustaining democracy in a meaningful way. I just hope it is not a secret, prejudiced attitude - that people in the Mid-East are culturally backward barbarians who cannot handle freedom - that sparks my fear.

 

[sherbetjello]

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/01/egypt.protests/index.html?iref=NS1

I really have a lot to say on this matter, but I am going to just keep it to a blog. If I could suggest anything to anyone, try very hard not to let the news reports skew you (or your fear) into a corner. That's how wars are won.

{adding this link:}
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/01/31/egypt.muslim.brotherhood/index.html

Sorry that my links are all CNN, it happens to be the only one that allows me pop up RSS to stay updated.

 

[songline]

I think History tells us that when ever they (Arabs under oppression) seek a democracy they allow groups to come in to help them because that group has been manipulating them with food...IE..... HAMAS / HEZBBOLAHA... Desperation does not make for clear choices.

While in Egypt it is not the Muslim Brotherhoods fight, it is their opportunity.
I do not trust them at all.

I do pray for human rights, and fairness for the people.
but I would not allow one of my eyes to blink in the face of this group.

 

[songline]

I've been listening to a lot of experts who do not believe the possibility of Islamo-Fascists taking over the country is as probable as most westerners fear. However, one said that if the protests go on long enough, the normal citizens may begin dropping out of the resistance leaving radical, religious elements behind. He said that is what happened in Iran. On the other hand, I have also heard that Egypt is a very secular country. Yes, most people there are Islamic like most Americans are Judeo-Christian, but the Muslim Brotherhood only has about 25% of the people's support and the protesters, for the most part, do not see a religious regime as the solution.

It's strange. I'm very conflicted. I agree with many of the people of Egypt who feel we Americans are hypocritical in our desire for democracy but only in areas where a particular dictator has become our enemy. Otherwise, we fear what we will be left with. We have supported Egypt's government with 30 billion in aid since Mubarak has been in office. In return, we expect him to help us with oil deals and to be our ally, at least to some degree, when it comes to Israel. But there is a huge price- the people in that country (and other we support) suffer horrifically while we turn a blind eye, just as long as their oppressors continue to do our bidding. But Arabs have a long memory and they know exactly who is supporting their dictator. We walk a fine, scary line.

But I also share the fear that these nations are not that capable of sustaining democracy in a meaningful way. I just hope it is not a secret, prejudiced attitude - that people in the Mid-East are culturally backward barbarians who cannot handle freedom - that sparks my fear.

BBM - When is enough enough?
BBM - The inability to sustain a democracy leave a void for some groups to take over.

By watching what happened in other areas we can begin to see things as they are.

 

[gitana1]

"I'd like to see a president in Egypt every eight years like in other countries. ...this is just the country of rich people. I graduated from university and I speak four languages but I can't find a job because of nepotism and corruption. To do anything you have to pay money."
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/01/egypt.protests.scene/index.html?hpt=T1

 

[belimom]

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/01/egypt.protests/index.html?iref=NS1

I really have a lot to say on this matter, but I am going to just keep it to a blog. If I could suggest anything to anyone, try very hard not to let the news reports skew you (or your fear) into a corner. That's how wars are won.

{adding this link:}
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/01/31/egypt.muslim.brotherhood/index.html

Sorry that my links are all CNN, it happens to be the only one that allows me pop up RSS to stay updated.

bbm

I'd love to read it. Do you have a link? Thanks.

 

[belimom]

..........
But I also share the fear that these nations are not that capable of sustaining democracy in a meaningful way. I just hope it is not a secret, prejudiced attitude - that people in the Mid-East are culturally backward barbarians who cannot handle freedom - that sparks my fear.

What concerns me about a democracy in countries like Egypt is the low literacy rate. That leaves voters swayed to what they are told vs what they can read for themselves. Egypt ranks 148 out of 180 nations on literacy, according to a UN report from 2009. To have a "meaningful" democracy, people must make an informed decision.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate

 

[belimom]

An Egyptian friend shared this link where Egyptians are uploading their own photos - he said that things have calmed down somewhat and he/his family are "relatively safe" but for awhile there were machine guns in the streets and he was left on his own to defend his family in case something happened - he is Coptic and said he has cleaned his fridge of beer in the process of be holed up inside, so he still has his humor:
<snip>