Intruder probability more, less, or same?

[USARDOG]

Cynic, well thought out post, but you have not addressed the fact that the unknown male's dna was on her pj's as well as in her underwear. This puts a distinctly different light on secondary transfer.

SuperDave, do you have a theory about who and or why she was molested?

The intruder theory does and has always seemed a bit implausible, but not out of the realm of possibility.

I certainly would like to see this case come to a resolution, and the guilty be named and prosecuted if possible.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

It's in opposition, all right, but it's FAR from inarguable! VERY far!

You yourself called it luck. Therefore it is progress and the only progress in recent years.

ML developed a new lead that favors IDI: We have DNA in three places where we had DNA in only one before.

Feel free to provide a new lead that favors RDI.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I'me afraid you've got that just the other way around! JB was killed sometime on Christmas night and had fibers from clothes we KNOW her parents wore that night in places they should not have been. They should not have been on the duct tape or tied into (NOT ON, INTO) the cord knots, because they claim the tape and cord did not come from their house.

What more do YOU need? A busload of nuns as eyewitnesses?

Regardless of IDI or RDI: If there were ANY fibers on JBR besides HER OWN, who would they MOST LIKELY belong to? While you're at it, from which clothes would they MOST LIKELY have come?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Cynic, well thought out post, but you have not addressed the fact that the unknown male's dna was on her pj's as well as in her underwear. This puts a distinctly different light on secondary transfer.

I think it started to snow unknown male DNA that night.

Either that or new underwear was so infected with unknown male DNA that JBR got it all over herself, had nothing to do with the murder.

If you buy that I've got a nice bridge also.

 

[USARDOG]

I think it started to snow unknown male DNA that night.

Either that or new underwear was so infected with unknown male DNA that JBR got it all over herself, had nothing to do with the murder.

If you buy that I've got a nice bridge also.

Please include price and location of bridge. :woohoo:

 

[cynic]

...you have not addressed the fact that the unknown male's dna was on her pj's as well as in her underwear. This puts a distinctly different light on secondary transfer.

The Janelle Patton homicide (which I included in my post) was a case where there was matching skin cell based DNA found on her right hand fingernails, as well as on her shorts, and panties.
This DNA was not from the man that killed her, it was unidentified female DNA.
It was secondary transfer, and it parallels the JBR case.

 

[cynic]

I think it started to snow unknown male DNA that night.

I guess you are hoping that it was snowing JR and PR fiber that night as well?

 

[DeeDee249]

Re the "unsourced" pineapple.

Are you saying that the SFF knew Jb likes pineapple?
If so it's not that foreign anymore.
Do you want me to believe that he/they sat down with JB at the kitchen table (with the lights off )calmly waiting for a parent to get up?Oh wait,this can't be possible,didn't they stun gun her up in her bedroom?
You want me to believe that "unsourced" pineapple in JB's intestine and pineapple in the Ramseys bowl on the Ramseys kitchen is just another "coincidence"?
You want me to believe that the SFF brought pineapple but they didn't come prepared with a ransom note?
I have more but it's getting hilarious and we're talking about murder here.

The pineapple isn't really unsourced. The pineapple in JB's digestive tract was tested against both the pineapple found in Patsy's bowl (with Patsy's prints on it- NO "intruder DNA or touch DNA") and also tested against pineapple found in the fridge and was found to be "identical down to the rind". JB loved pineapple (something her parents knew but an intruder couldn't) and bought fresh pineapple all the time. Patsy was told by LE about the pineapple found in JB, to which she replied "was it fresh or canned"? What a stupid question, and obviously whichever LE answered, Patsy would have said the opposite. Of course, she wasn't thinking that housekeeper LHP knew that Patsy always bought fresh pineapple for JB, not canned. And fresh is what was found inside her.
Now, let me indulge some of the "intruder-brought-the-pineapple" people- if you were going to bring pineapple to a kidnapping, wouldn't a can be easier? They have pop-off rings, too- you don't even need an opener. (I have to say I feel foolish even talking about an intruder bringing the pineapple, but I want to be fair....)

 

[madeleine]

Regardless of IDI or RDI: If there were ANY fibers on JBR besides HER OWN, who would they MOST LIKELY belong to? While you're at it, from which clothes would they MOST LIKELY have come?

I guess the answer is her parents clothes but guess who strongly disagrees (Oh I wonder why)

THE WITNESS(JR): If the question is

9 how did fibers of your shirt get into your

10 daughter's underwear, I say that is not

11 possible. I don't believe it. That is

12 ridiculous.


http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/2000ATL-John-Interview-Complete.htm


This is absurd.
I don't get why they worry so much about it anyway.I am sure Wood or any 3d hand lawyer would have laughed at this knowing he can spin it however he likes in court.

"It's normal for my fibers to be all over my kid,what's your point,it doesn't prove anything."Why are they so afraid of those fibers that's what I really don't get.

The problem IMO isn't with JR's fibers found in her panties (this could be explained away very easily),the real problem are PR's red fibers entwined in the garrote,found in the paint tray and on the tape.moo I have no problem with their fibers on her BODY or on her clothes.

 

[nobull]

Regardless of IDI or RDI: If there were ANY fibers on JBR besides HER OWN, who would they MOST LIKELY belong to? While you're at it, from which clothes would they MOST LIKELY have come?

So, it's irrelevant then, that her parents fibers were on her? Just answer yes or no please.

 

[BBB167893]

SuperDave, do you have a theory about who and or why she was molested?

I certainly do. I believe (emphasis there) that the who was JR and the why was an attempt to disguise prior injuries.

The intruder theory does and has always seemed a bit implausible, but not out of the realm of possibility.

Agreed.

I certainly would like to see this case come to a resolution, and the guilty be named and prosecuted if possible.

Also agreed, but I'm running low on hope.

 

[BBB167893]

You yourself called it luck. Therefore it is progress and the only progress in recent years.

That's not what you said, HOTYH. You said that the only quantifiable progress was this new DNA "discovery" and that it was inarguable. It is my considered opinion that considerable progress was made by the original investigation. I'll sum up my feelings at the end of this posting.

ML developed a new lead that favors IDI: We have DNA in three places where we had DNA in only one before.

Right.

Feel free to provide a new lead that favors RDI.

Well, that's kind of my point. We don't have a NEW lead, we have a few dozen old ones. It's just like I keep saying: a GOOD prosecutor (underline good) could have made a case with what the original investigators amassed. And as it stands now, you're not going to change my mind on that.

 

[BBB167893]

Please include price and location of bridge. :woohoo:

Careful, USARDOG. HOTYH has a habit of offering bridges. But they don't lead anywhere. LOL

 

[BBB167893]

I guess the answer is her parents clothes but guess who strongly disagrees (Oh I wonder why)

THE WITNESS(JR): If the question is

9 how did fibers of your shirt get into your

10 daughter's underwear, I say that is not

11 possible. I don't believe it. That is

12 ridiculous.


http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/2000ATL-John-Interview-Complete.htm


This is absurd.
I don't get why they worry so much about it anyway. I am sure Wood or any 3d hand lawyer would have laughed at this knowing he can spin it however he likes in court.

"It's normal for my fibers to be all over my kid,what's your point,it doesn't prove anything."Why are they so afraid of those fibers that's what I really don't get.

The problem IMO isn't with JR's fibers found in her panties (this could be explained away very easily),the real problem are PR's red fibers entwined in the garrote,found in the paint tray and on the tape. moo I have no problem with their fibers on her BODY or on her clothes.

Aw, heck! You beat me to it!

 

[USARDOG]

SuperDave, what is your theory on how this went down. Last of several late night trips into the wrong room... Things got way out of hand...

 

[BBB167893]

SuperDave, what is your theory on how this went down. Last of several late night trips into the wrong room... Things got way out of hand...

USARDOG, don't take this the wrong way, but I think it would be more appropriate if we took this over to a different thread. Specifically, "Ask Super, Part 2" See you there.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

So, it's irrelevant then, that her parents fibers were on her? Just answer yes or no please.

Why don't you tell us which is MORE relevant: unknown male DNA or parental fibers?

Please don't cite where the parental fibers were found, because DNA mixed with blood in her underwear obviously just surpasses all that.

 

[nobull]

But, the original question goes unanswered.

For clarity I will repost:

"So, it's irrelevant then, that her parents fibers were on her? Just answer yes or no please."

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

But, the original question goes unanswered.

For clarity I will repost:

"So, it's irrelevant then, that her parents fibers were on her? Just answer yes or no please."

Yes, its completely irrelevant.

Just because JR was surprised when LE 'believed' his fibers were in her underwear, doesn't mean he should've been surprised by it. They were just taking advantage of his ignorance as to fiber evidence, and making him look like a fool.

For a joke that is played here on this forum, I guess: "Oh look, even JR and LW think its bad."

Secondary transfer of fibers, fibers that are most likely to be on JBR in the first place, simply isn't remarkable. It also requires the unidentified fibers to be resolved. Where did THEY come from?

 

[madeleine]

Why don't you tell us which is MORE relevant: unknown male DNA or parental fibers?

Please don't cite where the parental fibers were found, because DNA mixed with blood in her underwear obviously just surpasses all that.

There's another problem here.
We KNOW when the parental fibers were deposited because they told us with their own mouths.They wore those clothes the evening of the murder and PR the morning after as well.
We CAN'T know when the DNA was deposited though.If it was found mixed with her blood that doesn';t mean it landed there when the blood did.That simple.